Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

[Bunnie]

The rangers were mentioned a few times in news reports. There is no doubt they existed at the time. One mention was when the car seat was handed in to them and the another when they helped search the beaches. However, to check if Rangers were employed at the time as paid lifeguards and answer other questions about what they knew about Julie Cutler’s car etc, I rang the Cottesloe Council who employed them. The very friendly woman said she would be happy to find out the answers, but I needed to make a written request to access the records from 1988. However, when I did this I received a written reply that they were unable to access the records to answer any questions about this topic.

I'm thinking the rangers discussed would be council rangers as opposed to beach patrols. They usually didn't start until about Sept/Oct and finished up in around April. Council rangers came out as required.

 

[Pandit]

IMO Innerchild, we do keep going around in circles and I'll be happy when we've moved on from this. Seems we can't get any kind of agreement on the most likely scenario.

I think the car going in has been explained quite logically and in simplicity, that it doesn't fit with your hypothesis of two dumping events and a fishing boat to accommodate your line theory is why I believe you are rejecting them.

"Confirmation bias, the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]" [/FONT]

Good point. The arguments are circular and keep going round and round as none logically explain what happened IMO. Actually, this mirrors the headlines from the time.
Although there has been a truck load of headlines and news reports bought out so discussion has progressed from one poster saying maybe the damage to the car was a distortion of the image.

Initially the only image of the retrieved car was from the screen saver page printed under the “Hints” given in the video published by Claremont Ghost. Why did the person who published the Claremont Ghost video “Hints” have JC’s car as their screensaver on their computer?

The image of JC’s retrieved car on their screensaver was in colour, but the newspaper image was black and white. So how did this person get a colour image of JCs car?

There’s two interesting questions IMO. How bout getting together with Fast Eddie to answer them?

By the way, wind directions have been posted, but the 1988 weather page did have moon phases and tides as well, which were cut out of images.

 

[meticulously]

My thoughts on seat found south side, car found north side of the groyne.

Scenario 1) car and seat go into the water together north side of the groyn either very close groyne or off the end of the groyne itself. Seat floats initially and surf action + initial seat boyancy works seat out of open window. Seat floats, swirling surface wave action close to groyne sucks seat out then around the groyne. It then starts getting water logged and eventually ways in with dumping beach waves north of groyne. Meanwhile, car sinks, rolls around with the washing machine effects of the swirling water near groyne, cops a battering on the rocks and tides and surf rolls it around until it eventually washes close enough to shore to be seen in the water.

Scenario 2) seat was tossed off the groyne on the 20th. Car was dumped at a later date after seat was found to make it look like a suicide.

Scenario 1 is my preferred option, not due to charts, weather, experts, crystal balls or psychic hunches. It just seems the easiest explanation.

Someone mentioned the water was lot by floodlights? No. The groyne was lit by lights back then but it did not illuminate the water at all. It was basically so fishermen didn't fall off the groyne in the dark. And i am not certain the lights stayed lit all night or turned off at 1am like the regular street lights used to do.

Bunnie this must be a mistake and you meant to say south right ?

Quote : "It then starts getting water logged and eventually ways in with dumping beach waves north of groyne." Bunnie .

Was hoping you would notice and edit it before time was up [emoji352]

 

[Bunnie]

Bunnie this must be a mistake and you meant to say south right ?

Quote : "It then starts getting water logged and eventually ways in with dumping beach waves north of groyne." Bunnie .

Was hoping you would notice and edit it before time was up [emoji352]

My edit function doesnt work it just deletes my post if i try. Seat =south car=north.

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...XAhUGULwKHY-qDgA4ZBAzCEAoPTA9&iact=mrc&uact=8

For those questioning the rock height on the groyne.. look at the oic in above link.
If you look at the ground in this old photo you can see the height of the path clearly. The rocks were lower and it was like that until they had to repair the groyne after storm damage in late 80s/early 90s.

 

[Pandit]

Is that how Julie's car would have accessed the groyne back in mid 1988? On that winding boardwalk Bunnie, or was that removed before 1988?

Could the boardwalk have been taken down due to storm damage at the same time the rocks went up higher on the groyne? If so, it would have been before JC's car was found?

My edit function doesnt work it just deletes my post if i try. Seat =south car=north.

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...XAhUGULwKHY-qDgA4ZBAzCEAoPTA9&iact=mrc&uact=8

For those questioning the rock height on the groyne.. look at the oic in above link.
If you look at the ground in this old photo you can see the height of the path clearly. The rocks were lower and it was like that until they had to repair the groyne after storm damage in late 80s/early 90s.

 

[meticulously]

IMO Innerchild, we do keep going around in circles and I'll be happy when we've moved on from this. Seems we can't get any kind of agreement on the most likely scenario.

I think the car going in has been explained quite logically and in simplicity, that it doesn't fit with your hypothesis of two dumping events and a fishing boat to accommodate your line theory is why I believe you are rejecting them.

"Confirmation bias, the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]" [/FONT]

Hi pandit thank you for contributions.
Gradually over this year 2017 the JC disappearance has progressed,
In a round about way .
More newspaper articles have surfaced and Tv 7news screen shots .
The weather details could have been completed in 10 posts, instead of 200 perhaps, but the details would not have got so accurate and covered all bases .
Subsequently, i have got the oceanweather details memorized, I had to study every few hours of each day 15-26th june surrounding the disappearance in june .
I know when it rained , when got cold ,
The leeuwin-current was extra strong , ocean temps warmer than average.
The swell was coming in from the WNW direction.
Waves size each day , surfing conditions .
---------__===------_=====__----===

Have asked oceanographer for further details and recieved them yesterday .
Aquired correct links to support everything ive said about the weather thesis .

For anyone who takes this seriously, there is new information clearly found lately .

The southward current and the police searching north is one important fact just plainly wrong .
How many others things did the investigators miss ?

 

[Pandit]

Hi Met,

It has been very productive, the new pics found and your research has settled a couple of tricky questions I had.

If JC's disappearance is ever part of a serious review, investigators may find your new research and conclusions extremely helpful. :seeya:

Hi pandit thank you for contributions.
Gradually over this year 2017 the JC disappearance has progressed,
In a round about way .
More newspaper articles have surfaced and Tv 7news screen shots .
The weather details could have been completed in 10 posts, instead of 200 perhaps, but the details would not have got so accurate and covered all bases .
Subsequently, i have got the oceanweather details memorized, I had to study every few hours of each day 15-26th june surrounding the disappearance in june .
I know when it rained , when got cold ,
The leeuwin-current was extra strong , ocean temps warmer than average.
The swell was coming in from the WNW direction.
Waves size each day , surfing conditions .
---------__===------_=====__----===

Have asked oceanographer for further details and recieved them yesterday .
Aquired correct links to support everything ive said about the weather thesis .

For anyone who takes this seriously, there is new information clearly found lately .

The southward current and the police searching north is one important fact just plainly wrong .
How many others things did the investigators miss ?

 

[Bunnie]

Is that how Julie's car would have accessed the groyne back in mid 1988? On that winding boardwalk Bunnie, or was that removed before 1988?

Could the boardwalk have been taken down due to storm damage at the same time the rocks went up higher on the groyne? If so, it would have been before JC's car was found?

Boardwalk was gone long before they repaired the groyne. Boardwalk was gone by JC too, but ground was still the same on top.

Bits and pieces of the boardwalk were still there when I was a kid, along with the pool. Loved Cott as a kid.

 

[Innerchild]

I'm thinking the rangers discussed would be council rangers as opposed to beach patrols. They usually didn't start until about Sept/Oct and finished up in around April. Council rangers came out as required.

They were and still are paid by Council. They've been know by different names. Rangers, Beach Inspectors and Paid lifeguards. They were payed and working on the beaches at the time, weekdays all year round. They had 4 WD and certain beaches to work at. I knew someone who was employed for the position. However as I said I can't get confirmation about even the basic times and dates of employment from Cott Council of the Rangers.

 

[meticulously]

My thoughts on seat found south side, car found north side of the groyne.

Scenario 1) car and seat go into the water together north side of the groyn either very close groyne or off the end of the groyne itself. Seat floats initially and surf action + initial seat boyancy works seat out of open window. Seat floats, swirling surface wave action close to groyne sucks seat out then around the groyne. It then starts getting water logged and eventually ways in with dumping beach waves north of groyne. Meanwhile, car sinks, rolls around with the washing machine effects of the swirling water near groyne, cops a battering on the rocks and tides and surf rolls it around until it eventually washes close enough to shore to be seen in the water.

Scenario 2) seat was tossed off the groyne on the 20th. Car was dumped at a later date after seat was found to make it look like a suicide.

Scenario 1 is my preferred option, not due to charts, weather, experts, crystal balls or psychic hunches. It just seems the easiest explanation.

Someone mentioned the water was lot by floodlights? No. The groyne was lit by lights back then but it did not illuminate the water at all. It was basically so fishermen didn't fall off the groyne in the dark. And i am not certain the lights stayed lit all night or turned off at 1am like the regular street lights used to do.

See dates on the screen shots regarding the L. current during the month of june .
This L. current is strongest from Feb to Aug .

This is opposite of the current in spring /summer that flows northward , this is what people think happens all year round but thats wrong .
Sleuths who havent learned this detail are missing a major factor .

Leeuwin current pdf
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzwXRXcZyNM3WEhDeVlmV0FVbHFtZkthdEQ3VGZjLU8xRl9n/view?usp=drivesdk
________________________________


2 versions of Web address ,the same post with https/ and without http/ .

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13693570

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13693570

Jmo

 

[Innerchild]

Boardwalk was gone long before they repaired the groyne. Boardwalk was gone by JC too, but ground was still the same on top.

Bits and pieces of the boardwalk were still there when I was a kid, along with the pool. Loved Cott as a kid.

One of the other images of Cott in the early 80s in the link shows the pathway to the groyne. It is covered with sand as it was reported to be at the time of JC's disappearance. The Beach Inspectors 4WD couldn't access in these conditions as there was a big step to get on the groyne if you had to access it from the sand. You can also get an idea what the beach ramp was like in in front of boat shed to the north.

You might have been able to drive it off groyne, (of which there was no evidence of) but could you get it onto groyne? As this image shows the sand drifts had built up so a vehicle couldn't access the road which went around the back of the paddling pool and onto the groyne. The reports at the time of JC's car being found, said the sand had built up over the road in the same way as is shown in this image.

Also, how did it end up with the damage and in the position it did. Prevailing current is west or out to sea beside the groyne.

I was a Cott SLSC member for around 10 years and had always thought the car must have gone off groyne. This was before I saw car damage and calculated forces. I was really hoping to prove it did go off groyne, but accept everyone will have their own view based on their knowledge and experiences.

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...0saQwJLXAhUGULwKHY-qDgA4ZBAzCEAoPTA9..i&w=761

 

[no name]

Bunnie - I believe Im interpreting ranger the same way I suspect you are which has nothing to do with the beach specifically. Local ranger, ie the guy that used to write the parking tickets, pick up your dog when it got loose, check out the alarm going off that someone reported etc - the only go to guy on the street employed by the council back then & Im pretty sure they were available extended hours.
I said threads back the lights on the groyne were dim. The surfclub did have floodlights though that lit up everything, perhaps thats what you recall IC being a clubbie. When they went off though - very low lighting & no visibility to the water from the groyne lights.
City beach groyne lights were on of an evening.... For surfing. Big dramas between the fishos and the surfers & the lights were upgraded when a roster system was put into place with the hours specified that each group had exclusive use of that beach.

 

[Innerchild]

I am definitely not being s. a. about shark sightings but, in this 1986 State Library Image originally posted by PD you can seen the walking paths that pass over the top of the limestone cliff in front of the surf club, just behind the patrol tower.

If you needed an arial view to see in the ocean, because none of the beach users noticed a car in the middle of Cottesloe beach for two days, then you would have a great view from anywhere up there.

 

[no name]

Oh, the path to the groyne. As Petedavo said months ago, reddish brick herringbone path that is now concrete but still there today hugging the limestone wall below the surfclub

 

[Bunnie]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...74281733631&set=pcb.823611614376561&source=48
This is what I remember. The groyne is in the background in the photos.

 

[janwa]

If it's a given that JC had a stalker who broke in . Did that person see a Parmelia badge so realised where she worked.
Did that person follow her on a few weekends to get her work pattern then wait in the car park.

Was JC abducted and the car left at Cottesloe to cause confusion think where other cars have been left. The Rayney car was on it's way to a dumping ground. It was not only found because it hadn't got very far because it conked out, but also if it hadn't left the fluid trail CR may never have been found.

As a final possibility with this car. Did freak waves ever of their own accord wash over the groyne. Was the car left on the groyne or the beach to suggest suicide then at some point a freak wave that no one was there to see, washed it off the groyne or down the beach into the water which began tumbling it.

 

[Bunnie]

I am definitely not being s. a. about shark sightings but, in this 1986 State Library Image originally posted by PD you can seen the walking paths that pass over the top of the limestone cliff in front of the surf club. If you needed an areal view to see in the ocean, because none of the beach users noticed a car in the middle of Cottesloe beach for two days, then you would have a great view from there.

Tower only manned during swimming patrol season. September/October to April. I actually think it used to be October to April.

 

[petedavo.au]

Boardwalk was gone long before they repaired the groyne. Boardwalk was gone by JC too, but ground was still the same on top.

Bits and pieces of the boardwalk were still there when I was a kid, along with the pool. Loved Cott as a kid.

The roadway from Marine Parade to the Groyne appears to be much the same, except the carpark under the Pines that extended to the beach is gone and been replaced with lawn. And of course the Indiana now stands where the old change rooms and kiosk was. But as you can see in the drone footage the Southern access Rd has nothing hindering a car getting onto the beach, especially when it was said in the article about recovering the Fiat, that sand drifts were over the road, meaning to me that any drop off didn't exist at the time.
https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[petedavo.au]

They were and still are paid by Council. They've been know by different names. Rangers, Beach Inspectors and Paid lifeguards. They were payed and working on the beaches at the time, weekdays all year round. They had 4 WD and certain beaches to work at. I knew someone who was employed for the position. However as I said I can't get confirmation about even the basic times and dates of employment from Cott Council of the Rangers.

My stepson worked for a council once as a ranger up in one of those areas that had beaches, as I used to meet up with him way up around Carine. He can't swim. He never went on a beach. He only ever gave out parking infringements at beachside carparks. All that Beach stuff was left to surf lifesaving clubs. His council wasn't interested in spending money on beach patrols if someone else would do it for free.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Bunnie]

The roadway from Marine Parade to the Groyne appears to be much the same, except the carpark under the Pines that extended to the beach is gone and been replaced with lawn. And of course the Indiana now stands where the old change rooms and kiosk was. But as you can see in the drone footage the Southern access Rd has nothing hindering a car getting onto the beach, especially when it was said in the article about recovering the Fiat, that sand drifts were over the road, meaning to me that any drop off didn't exist at the time.
https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

That's what i am thinking as well. Especially if you don't care about the car's condition.

One thing to remember is we all need to view the car dumping with a1980's lens not a tech driven 2017 lens. Ideas for covering crimes were not available at the click of a mouse via Mr Google. Crims used their own creativity and examples they saw on the news/in newspapers/in books (if they read books)/in movies.