IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

[Shiressleuth]

I absolutely agree. It's rather ironic - to want more information from LE while ignoring information that has already been provided by LE.

Aside from GH's theories demonstrated by his videos, he seems to have good insight about how far out of the realm of reality some have driven this case. It must be deeply frustrating for the family to observe the murder of their children become a twisted form of entertainment on SM. JMO

Are you talking about posters and posts on here?

 

[Daey34]

Early on, I believe it was withheld because of the ongoing investigation at Mt. Herman involving the children and adults who were threatened and chased, as well as TW's murder. I think they didn't publish his mugshot right away because they wanted Colorado witnesses to ID him.

Ironically, withholding his mug shot is what led to Coloradoans googling his name to find a pic.

I think that is why his mugshot was withheld initially in Co, possibly to contact the In witness(es) before it hit the media perhaps.

 

[Shiressleuth]

IMO they have not and will not publicly exclude ANYBODY! For whatever reason, they're just not going to.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Well what is LE's next step? How do they weed them out? I keep asking but nobody is saying how they get their haystack down to the one needle if they have no usable DNA.

 

[FindHG]

hi im going to just jump in here cuz im not sure how to do this. has any of the libbys dads associates been questioned or looked in to??

How nice to see you join, Lana Crowe. Please accept a warm welcome.

:welcome4:

WS does not sleuth family members as they are the first whom LE consider and eliminate, but especially since the mission here is to support the victims of crime too.

Feel free to take the time to get familiar with the WS rules and to ask the mods any questions before you post information about family members.

Thank you for pitching in, and I hope you continue.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Early on, I believe it was withheld because of the ongoing investigation at Mt. Herman involving the children and adults who were threatened and chased, as well as TW's murder. I think they didn't publish his mugshot right away because they wanted Colorado witnesses to ID him.

Ironically, withholding his mug shot is what led to Coloradoans googling his name to find a pic.

That's t'Internet for you. It happened on here too. Everyone was googling his Indy mugs.

 

[Lana Crowe]

How nice to see join, Lana Crowe. Please accept a warm welcome.

:welcome4:

WS does not sleuth family members as they are the first whom LE consider and eliminate, but especially since the mission here is to support the victims of crime too.

Feel free to take the time to get familiar with the WS rules and to ask the mods any questions before you post information about family members.

Thank you for pitching in, and I hope you continue.

oh ur right sorry

 

[FindHG]

JUST THE FACTS


Thank you so so much for this, RIP Meagan + Johnny. Stupendous!

 

[weepingangel]

[FONT=&quot]Just the Facts[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
Abby and Libby had February 10th and 13th off school for unused snow days. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Abby was at Libby’s house on February 13 and the girls asked to go to the trails so they could take pictures. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Libby’s sister dropped them off about 1:30 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The girls made it to the bridge and took at least one picture of and one picture on it. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The picture of Abby on the bridge was uploaded to Snapchat with a time stamp of 2:07 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]According to posts referring to the recent Dr. Phil show, Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up around 3:00 pm. He tried calling at 3:11 pm, then went to look on the trails at 3:14 pm. Not finding them, he notified other family members who assisted in the search. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]According to the timeline presented on the Dr. Phil show and the time of 2:30 on the billboards (see below) there were approximately 44 minutes of time between the video of the POI on the bridge and when a witness allegedly saw BG leaving the trails. This does not confirm BG did not return to the area later. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]LE was notified at 5:15 pm and a large-scale search began at 6:00 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Libby’s sister stated on the Dr. Phil show that the searchers yelled up asking what color shoes the girls had. She responded and they yelled back they had found the girls. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Abby and Libby were found at approximately 12:15 pm on February 14 in a wooded area on RL’s property near the MHB. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The girls had open caskets at their funeral visitations.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Link: http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_4b1989d8-f7db-11e6-9f4b-ff5056c72de5.html[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]LE called Libby a hero for having the presence of mind to turn on her phone’s video recording. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Images of a POI we refer to as “Bridge Guy” (BG) were captured on that recording and made into still shots by LE.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Audio of the POI was captured also with the words “down the hill” released to the media. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]LE placed billboards in 46 of the 50 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Maine and Vermont do not allow billboards). At least one of the billboard layouts alludes to the POI being last seen at 2:30 pm, likely the time the video images of him were shot. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Link to photo of billboard: http://wane.com/2017/02/23/reward-up-to-50000-for-information-in-deaths-of-2-indiana-girls/[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]RL, owner of the property where the girls were found, admitted to driving on February 13 to the Carrol County Transfer Station (recycling center), reported by the media as “hours before the girls were dropped off”. Link: http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]RL also said later that day he was at a tropical fish store in Lafayette, returning from Lafayette around 6:30 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]A compiled sketch of the suspect was released in mid-July 2017. The accompanying description was “The suspect has been described as 5’6″-5’10” tall and weighing between 180-220 pounds with reddish brown hair.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Link: http://wishtv.com/2017/07/17/isp-releases-sketch-of-suspect-in-delphi-double-murder-case/


[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Information from the August 2017 interview with Officer Holman (quoted and paraphrased from Spellbound’s transcription):[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*The sketch is a compilation from several people who say they saw the person that LE identified “through the video that was obtained off Liberty's phone”. “More than a few” people saw the POI on the trails that day. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*He cautioned the public “because this person's probably gonna do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones. That's the message that I want to get out to the public, that if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter, or your mother, or sister, or anybody. Could be brother or father as well, so...”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*He mentioned traveling over steep terrain in a wooded area to get to where the girls were found. He said they crossed the creek. You wouldn’t go this way just taking a walk.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*They found DNA. “I think in every crime scene...you're gonna have the victim's DNA, you're gonna probably have victim's family's DNA. You know touch DNA is very powerful, so if I touch your shirt today...that DNA could still be there for weeks, if not months. So we're still working on identifying whose all DNA we have there.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*More audio was found on Libby’s phone. “At this time it doesn't appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls and things like that. So, we've only released a portion of it. There's some others that we think could help us, but again, protecting the integrity of the investigation is the key here.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*Libby’s phone was found “in the general area”. (Near the CS.)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]*”They went out there to take pictures on the bridge...but it appeared that...Liberty had enough sense to realize that something wasn't right and she started that video because she felt uncomfortable, both girls were uncomfortable...But they were out there taking pictures with the phone and videos.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Link to long version of the interview (scroll to the bottom of the page): http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Link to transcription of Officer Holman’s 27 minute interview by our own Spellbound in Thread #65. (WS links can change depending upon how many posts per page you choose in your settings. If you land on the wrong page it’s posts #186 and 244): http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Liberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65/page4[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]If anyone can think of anything else we KNOW as FACT that isn’t speculation or theory, please bring it to my attention and I will edit and repost as necessary.
I’m still looking for a link to the news video about Libby taking the video of BG with her selfie camera. [/FONT][/FONT]

Re selfie camera I think I recall seeing This from reporter's twitter not a newspaper video /story if that helps at all



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kstephens98]

That likelihood is doubtful with everyone searching the area. The risk is too high and makes no sense for me whatsoever.

Hi Reacher,

The girls may very have done just that. But the long version of Officer Holman’s August interview states “more than a few” people saw him on the trails that day. Scroll to bottom of page for video.
http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/

No, not suggesting anything other than just because a witness saw this guy leaving the area around that time, doesn't mean the crime was over and done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

True, but it would certainly make the most sense IMO.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

Wouldn’t he have had blood on him had a witness seen him leaving? I keep trying to think how it’s possible that at least one of the girls wouldn’t have yelled for help and the only thing I can think of that would have at least stopped me would have been a slit throat. And if the other girl saw this happening why would she not have yelled? I can’t get the logistics worked out in my head how this could happen to both girls and I’ve been mulling thru this case since February and 77 threads.

There are means of killing that would not entail getting blood on the perp's clothing or hands. Out of respect for the families, I won't speculate publicly but it IS possible that BG used a gun to control the girls and then killed them in another manner.

It is very difficult to put ourselves in these girls' situation because you really don't know how you are going to react when you're in it yourself. Even members of LE, who have had extensive training in reacting and responding, occasionally find themselves in situations that "stump" them (for lack of better word). When my mom and I were attacked on the street, neither one of us screamed and put up a fight because the fear was just overwhelming; we became paralyzed. And yes, before that, we were "those" people who claimed they'd never let go without a fight. We thought we'd scream, cause a ruckus, and go down kicking. We didn't. You can take self-defense classes, watch all the true crime shows, and play various situations over and over in your head but, in the moment, you just can't control how the chemicals in your brain are going to react.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I was not referring to you. If I was I would have quoted your post.

You would also be taking offense to all the others who agreed with me.

My statement was merely that. A statement. Nothing more, not directed at any one person. Just the theme throughout the thread. IMO

I queried Misty's post agreeing with yours and I do agree with newredtabby. Posts criticizing without specifics are just unhelpful. By all means disagree with the specific poster but the shotgun approach doesn't work as we don't know who it is aimed at.
:smile:
constructive criticism welcome.
:cow:

 

[mtnlites]

Well what is LE's next step? How do they weed them out? I keep asking but nobody is saying how they get their haystack down to the one needle if they have no usable DNA.

Because we don't know. We can speculate but none of us have any idea how they're going to do it from here. That's probably why they went on the Dr. Phil show-to locate someone who can aid in the investigation by providing information they don't already have.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Hmmm. The video of the drive to the trail entrance is interesting indeed. One would not likely stumble upon such a place but would have to know that it exists, its location and which of the winding rural roads to use to get there. I suppose one could locate it on a phone GPS?

I agree, Tea. I think the killer was somewhat local to Delphi and I also think he knew the girls would be there. I have never thought this was a crime of random opportunity.

 

[kstephens98]

Yes, although the ISP Superintendent also didn't speak up to confirm the timeline. He, could have said, "Yes, this crime was over and done very quickly, did anyone see a car or truck speeding out of Delphi that day? Did anyone see a man running down a back road near the trails?" Saying nothing, confirms nothing IMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree, LE's silence is not a confirmation. However, MP is most certainly an "insider". I have absolutely no reason to question his account. I choose to believe what he is saying and will p lace it in my personal "fact" column.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Area52]

No, not suggesting anything other than just because a witness saw this guy leaving the area around that time, doesn't mean the crime was over and

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In the Dr Phil broadcast, Doug Carter made mention of the hours between 1:30 and 4:00 as to the time he wanted people to think about if the saw someone. To me that means that he's confident that BG was gone after 4:00. MOO

 

[TeaTime]

I know the difference between a poi and a suspect. What I want to know is why POI pictures get plastered over the media where witnesses can see them and be prejudiced by them. Therefore I am asking if they would have I.d. him when the mug was withheld. Was that the purpose of withholding it? If the eye witnesses have not I.d. him from a fair standpoint, that will prejudice a trial so I am asking, when do they do it? They did this with RL too. Is that your system? I will read the article but am on websleuths to discuss with other posters and learn that way. If noone wants to specifically answer just scroll n roll - I'm used to that.

Neither RL nor DN's faces were plastered all over the place just because they were considered POI's in this case. Their photos are online because, for RL, he was the landowner, gave some interviews, then was arrested for violating parole and, for DN, because he was arrested in CO but had outstanding warrants in IN. LE didn't release the photos saying "hey, this guy is a POI" because they were known individuals.

BG's photographic image was released as a POI because he was unknown, not recognized or ID'd and LE wanted to (wants to) find him.

Rest assured that the witness(es) to BG leaving the area who gave descriptions for the artist's rendering were shown a photo line up and asked if they could ID BG from the photos. It is also my opinion, based on some experience, that a photo line up was shown to the witness(es) before Indiana LE even left for CO. JMHO

 

[Lana Crowe]

is there a possibility of 2 killer's being involved?? i thought i heard that mentioned when the cell audio was released to the public

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe. So how will they proceed?

I don't think they can, until something drops in their laps. If that ever happens.

 

[kstephens98]

Well what is LE's next step? How do they weed them out? I keep asking but nobody is saying how they get their haystack down to the one needle if they have no usable DNA.

I do not know. IMO I think they have eliminated people, they're just not going to publicly state who those individuals are. I am as lost as you are concerning LE's strategies and actions. I don't know if they have a good idea who BG is or if they are completely clueless. I know you believe DN is BG. I disagree. Neither of us know for sure. We both want BG caught and prosecuted, whomever he is.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[newredtabby]

In the Dr Phil broadcast, Doug Carter made mention of the hours between 1:30 and 4:00 as to the time he wanted people to think about if the saw someone. To me that means that he's confident that BG was gone after 4:00. MOO

Except, once BG and the girls were "down the hill" no one was going to see them. I am sure they WERE well off the trail system by 4:00, but I am not sure the crime was over by then. BG was not going to be spotted by anyone, out in the woods, on the back border of RL's property, across a creek, in the dark. And, as brazen as he was, and willing to kill for whatever his thrill was, I doubt he was worried about someone stumbling across him if he somehow WAS spotted. Cow talk, of course.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk