VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017

[GeorgiaSuzy]

The elderly lap dog was attacked by a pit bull at Petsmart grooming. A Pit.

 

[GeorgiaSuzy]

BBM

But the one factor that is the constant in these kinds of cases is the psychology of the PB.

Here is an example telling of how a PB does in a trial [obedience] ring:



http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities2ndpage.html


More about “gripping” dogs:



http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2012/06/locking-jaws.html

That's a good article. Thanks

 

[2Hope4]

Someone mentioned how much a dog cost a month to care for. And that people shouldn't own a dog if this and that weren't met. I disagree. If the 'perfect' home was the only home for the dogs needing a home, there would thousands more euthanized than already are. And who gets to determine what perfect is? What works for one breed, or even one dog doesn't work for another. My Great Pyrenees would be miserable living in the city. He thrives on guarding his property and his livestock. Your perfect dog houses? He won't enter one. I know, I've bought him 2 and had one built for him. Will not enter it. When it snows, he chooses to lay in the snow. He comes in the house with us when he wants.

Show me one person that has never had life surprises, or changes. What might seem like the perfect plan at one point in your life, can quickly become a problem. Your aren't the same person at 30 as you were at 18. You aren't the same at 60 as you were at 30. Rescues can get themselves in binds by trying to judge or condemn owner's decisions. It benefits no one. It stresses the rescues, the volunteers, and the person needing help. Just not a good cycle to get in. Instead, realize life evolves, and roll with the flow. Not everyone can handle a newborn baby and a dog. So be it. Help them rehome that dog, or offer to keep it a month or so until the new parents settle into a routine. People get injured, become disabled, have to move into low income housing that won't accept animals, have a child that is highly allergic to the pet, have a parent that suddenly needs them to be a caretaker, has prolonged medical issues, or the owner may die, either suddenly, tragically, or from natural causes. Some families are not in a situation to take the animals. Some won't no matter what, others can't no matter what. Don't judge. Help the animal.

 

[2Hope4]

As for the monthly cost for a dog being several hundred. Disagree. I own 5 dogs, a dozen cats, 5 horses, 6 pot belly pigs, 30 chickens, and a finch. If I paid hundreds for ONE dog....there would be lots of animals needing a home ASAP! An animal can be well taken care of without involving hundreds a month. Even with heartworm, flea treatment, and their food, no where near what was estimated. Heck my horses don't even cost hundreds a month!

 

[DakotaMayi]

As for the monthly cost for a dog being several hundred. Disagree. I own 5 dogs, a dozen cats, 5 horses, 6 pot belly pigs, 30 chickens, and a finch. If I paid hundreds for ONE dog....there would be lots of animals needing a home ASAP! An animal can be well taken care of without involving hundreds a month. Even with heartworm, flea treatment, and their food, no where near what was estimated. Heck my horses don't even cost hundreds a month!

I agree. I pay $12 a month for a care package for my dog, in this she gets, one free vet check up a year & all her flea/worm etc injections (and other stuff I would need the leaflet to list them all). Her food is $12 a month, she gets treats/toys sometimes and I pay $30 every two months for her to go to the dog groomer. I have no idea, unless she got sick and treatment was needed, how it would cost hundreds each month.

 

[Trident]

I think the moral of the story is that we all really need to understand dogs well and have the capacity to care for them before owning them. I don't ascribe to the attitude that certain breeds are inherently vicious or dangerous. I think that has to do with the individual animal and their experiences, lifestyle
and energy levels. (And I realize many disagree with that).

But to me it is a fact that large dogs need more exercise, especially breeds that have been bred to work, herd, etc. And breeds that tend to be highly intelligent also need a ton of stimulation and attention.

I also think that large dogs, especially strong ones, need people who are strong enough physically to care for and handle them, confident and knowledgeable enough to control them and not let them dominate and have adequate resources and time (this goes for all dogs) to care for their needs.

Intelligent, strong working breeds need a lot of care. I've always had large dogs and I have one right now who I co-own who is very old now and doesn't have much time left. But I won't get another when he dies even though I love them so.

That's because I don't have a stable enough schedule to devote to a young dog and I would never just leave such highly social pack animals alone for hours. It makes them insane. IMO adequate care of a large dog costs about $700.00 a month. Because I would have to put the dog in a good doggie daycare during the week while working and high quality food and vet care is expensive.

And yes I'm an attorney but certainly not rich. About a third of my work is low cost (low income clients and veterans who get a slash rate, not to mention pure pro bono cases I have) and I work the equivalent of part time. So I'm not prepared to spend that much right now.

Taking large dogs who might have had a history of abuse or maybe inappropriate training, giving them a ton of attention and then suddenly confining them to kennels with a lack of consistent food and only "visits" is enough to drive any dog mad. Regardless of breed.

But then combine that with the fact that these animals are powerful dogs and Bethany was a tiny gal.

It seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I remember this elderly gentleman who walked his large boxer on the trail I jog on. He could barely control the dog. He struggled so hard to keep control. That dog became insane whenever it saw another dog. He'd yell at me because mine was off leash (I know that scares some people the dog just stays right by my side and never veers off. Period. Even if a dog comes up and attacks. He will stand still crying until I release him, poor guy.) but I just walked by and my dog ignored the crazy thing writhing around and twisting on the leash.

That dog was extremely high energy and there was no way that elderly man could cope with it. He needed tons of intensive training and someone strong enough to physically handle the dog.

After about a year they disappeared.

I said it before: Dogs that are neglected and are bred to work in some capacity will create a job and for many, if it's not incessant, manically barking, digging or destroying property, it's viciousness. They have nothing to do. Leaving a highly social and intelligent pack animal like a dog in a kennel all day is the equivalent of placing a human in solitary confinement. We've seen what that does to prisoners. Dogs become insane as well.

So I think there is one moral to this horrific story- no one should adopt animals they can't adequately care for. Especially strong ones that can kill if they lose it.

P.S. besides large dogs that need a lot of care and space, I also wouldn't get a Jack Russell Terrier unless I lived on a farm. Or rode a bike on a trail every day at high speeds for at least an hour. Those characters are highly intelligent and energetic and will absolutely wreak havoc if not given extreme
amounts of exercise or long jobs!

This was an excellent post and I totally agree with most of it. However, LOL, there's always an "however" isn't there. However, I don't agree with the part I bolded. I'm quoting a small portion of an excellent, scholarly article that contradicts that statement, an article that goes into the whys and wherefores of pitbull agression in a highly intelligent, factual manner. In order to understand her premise you should read the entire article, it's enlightening in a different way.

"They translate into owner of a golden retreiver taking a

1% chance of endangering others by choosing this dog, while owners of the aggressive breddogs are taking (in this favorable scenario) a 1% chance of
not
endangering others in their surroundings by choosing such a dog."

https://www.scribd.com/doc/14810086...-the-Abnormally-Aggressive-Dog-by-A-Semyonova

 

[Trident]

I agree. I pay $12 a month for a care package for my dog, in this she gets, one free vet check up a year & all her flea/worm etc injections (and other stuff I would need the leaflet to list them all). Her food is $12 a month, she gets treats/toys sometimes and I pay $30 every two months for her to go to the dog groomer. I have no idea, unless she got sick and treatment was needed, how it would cost hundreds each month.

Where do you get this care package? I'd be interested in getting one.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Where do you get this care package? I'd be interested in getting one.

Hi Trident, it is something our vet provides, it can be tailor made to your dogs breed/needs and you can pay more or less depending on what you want with the package. It may be worth asking your vet. The vet we use is a small independent business so it may not be available in other areas with other vets but definitely worth taking out if they do provide it nearby

 

[jamicat]

Post mortem not yet done. Investigation still open.
Preliminary examination does indicate the dogs attacked her, and personally, I believe it’s the most likely thing that happened.

However LE has made several statements that are not true in this case already.

Bethany’s Body is in such ripped up and devasted shape thst it is difficult without close examination to rule out anything. The dogs were eating her, but that does not necessarily mean they killed her. That LE released that grisly info to dispel other cause of death theories was a red herring or stupidity. The dogs were eating dead meat because they were hungry. She had been dead about a day by then according to the ME in cursorary exam.

Pit bulls are not bred to attack humans. Fighting dogs that attack handlers or any people do not last long. Given that there are far more pit mix dogs around, it makes sense that there are more bite and attack reports that involve them. They also are dogs that can inflict great harm when they bite which gives them s lot more negative press. Also the people did neighborhoods that own pits tend not to give them optimal care. I know where the high number of pits are on my area. You can walk down the streets and you will see any number of them tied outside. Not the case in the areas where Pitbulls are rare in households. A dachshund or chihuahua that bites, abc these breeds do tend to bite s lot, simply do not do the damage that the jaws of an attacking Pit would do.

I agree that pit mix dogs have dangers that owners need to address more vigilantly then many other breeds and mixes , but i do not believe Bethany’s death was because she had that breed over some other large powerful dogs that were left neglected including unfed, cold, isolated outside after being inside pampered pets all their lives.

 

[jamicat]

People do this. They find the property all of the time and do not think. It’s absolutely wrong. We have public woods with trails for dog walking, and though the signs clearly say dogs need to be leashed, most people let their dogs off leash there.
Like nearly everyone. Every dog I’ve met there in 18 years of regularly walking there had been fine. But, yes, you are right that there is a risk some dog at some time gets out of control and can inflict damage. They also can eat nasty things on the ground there, and do.

Most people do not have access to large pieces of private property and they want their dogs to have free run once in a while. Fenced Dog parks can provide this service if the dogs get along with other dogs

 

[jamicat]

I agree that many if not most dogs are not in optimal environments. Small, old, sedentary dogs exceptions as they can do well without regular exercise and often are at homes with attention.
Too many get dogs and do not have time with work and life to give them the attention needed. Also may not have the money. And yet have dogs. But most people manage to feed them. Giving them regular, excellent exercise is where most people fall short with active dogs that really need to run. A few walks around the neighborhood daily does not take care of that desire. And few people have large yards with fencing or have regular access to safe expanses. Dog parks the best alternative if they are around

 

[JaneEyre]

The police statements have some clear mistakes in them. The dogs were not 100-120 lbs as originally reported. They were smaller than that. Nor was there any evidence that they were bred for fighting. Both shelter pups, from same litter. Bethany had adopted one at 8 weeks from the shelter. She got the other one later, and no info given as to how much later. She reportedly rescued that one from an sbusive situation, reuniting him with his littermate

Also, the comment of a dog getting a taste of human flesh making them unsafe ever to be around humans again is not any proven fact. I can attest to dogs getting a taste or experience in killing, even eating chickens or other creatures and learning to peacefully coexist with them after being trained to do so. I know many dogs with strong prey drive who will not have it come in play among family pets or livestock.

The cop releasing the info that the dogs were feeding on Bethany’s body also is not definite proof that they killed her. It just meant they were eating her body after she was dead. They could have been running loose and romping the woods, and come back to her dead body after something else killed her. Hopefully, a competent autopsy is done. I don’t doubt the dogs attached her body—the evidence is apparently right there but did they do so while she was alive or afterwards?

I suspect the dogs were hungry. Visiting them “on average”, 5 days a week is not enough. Many Dogs are ravenous for their food every day. And if Bethany had not fed them before their walk, no telling when they last ate.

The dogs were not “a little bit neglected” being caged most all day, sometimes days at s time without regular food especially in this cold weather and after they were used to be house dogs. This was abuse.

Pitties expend so much energy just existing that they often need either more food or higher calorie food than other dogs of the same size. One that we had in rescue needed puppy food up to about 2 years old or he would lose weight. He was just so high energy that he burned calories really fast. It's entirely possible that even if she fed them that morning, they weren't actually full, and they were getting used to being hungry and expected to experiencing hunger again soon, making them highly anxious.

I wish we had good pictures of them after the incident. It can be difficult to catch malnourishment in photographs, actually. They have to be taken at the right angle, and often it's worse in real life than the photos can show (I know because we often need proof of the condition of the dog when we obtain it).

But if our foster, who was fed high quality food twice daily and living in the house began to drop weight right under our noses, I can only imagine the condition two young Pitties who were not being monitored or fed regularly might be in when missing meals. Even if they were in separate kennels, they would still have to eat what was given to them immediately and not leave any for the next day or risk rats and coons stealing the food at night while they slept.

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[JaneEyre]

It amazes me that people let their dogs loose on public property, especially big dogs. If I was the stranger your friend encountered, I’d be literally terrified if I ran into two large dogs running loose in the woods. Unless those woods Are private property and said stranger was trespassing, it is incredibly negligent to let dogs run around without leashes IMO


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I flat-out cuss people out when I see this. I don't care if they have control of their dogs. There's always a first time for everything when they won't. And my dogs on leash perceive loose dogs as a threat and go nuts. There's no reason to freak other people and animals out when they could just use a lead and allow others to feel safe on their walks.

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[jamicat]

This was an excellent post and I totally agree with most of it. However, LOL, there's always an "however" isn't there. However, I don't agree with the part I bolded. I'm quoting a small portion of an excellent, scholarly article that contradicts that statement, an article that goes into the whys and wherefores of pitbull agression in a highly intelligent, factual manner. In order to understand her premise you should read the entire article, it's enlightening in a different way.


https://www.scribd.com/doc/14810086...-the-Abnormally-Aggressive-Dog-by-A-Semyonova

Excellent article, and excellent commentary on this gruesome thread.

I do not believe the 1% figure. I don’t believe the author did the statistical analysis to come with it. But i get his point.

Every time a dog becomes popular, it tends to become overbred without adhering to breeding safeguards and a greater than expected % become aggressive. I’ve seen too many cocker spaniels, adorable dogs surely not bred for aggression become snappers. Fortunately, they do not have the physical strength to be devastatingly Dangerous most of the time. I have a friend whose face is scarred from her own cocker attacking her there. Neighbor girl attacked by one a few years ago.

The prey drive of dogs that have Pitbull heritage is often a huge problem. Small children can be prey to them. Children should never be left alone with dogs, and any dog around them should be under full control. But as for attacking people, that is not what Pitbulls were bred to do, and as I’ve commented in another post, one that was aggressive to handlers, people in general were put down.

The problem with dogs that have pit in them is their strength and speed, focus, and that they are often owned by people who are not giving them the care they need. Too many of them doing time in shelters and too few good homes for them

 

[JaneEyre]

Well, you said earlier that you rescue pits, and you promote that Any breed of dog can kill someone, yet facts show it's not ANY breed, it's mainly pits. That kinda makes you a pit bull advocate, doesn't it? Genetically they're bred to attack without a warning growl or bark to take down a thousand pound bull or bear, with jaws to clamp & crush, and never give up the fight. Some breeds specialize in pointing, retrieving, or herding. Pits and bulldog types specialize in killing. Read the stories on dogbites.org and you'll see it's got nothing to do with nurture and everything to do with nature.

I've been bit by ankle biters on the hand (my fault), and by a bulldog on the face (when I was a kid - not my fault). The bulldog was much worse. And of course, ANY ANIMAL can bite. I've been bitten by iguanas and horses, too... but they don't continue to attack and attack until you're scalped or your face is eaten off or your throat is crushed and all your clothes are ripped off and strewn around like a bloody horror movie. It's pits that do that.

First, you are referring to a site that Gitana provided many links to debunk. I suggest you go read those links before touting that site.

Second, I am an animal advocate, not a pit advocate. I advocate for all animals, yet I have clearly stated that I know when one is too far gone and needs to be put down. I listed some of the breeds I've had to euthanize for aggression earlier, which included a couple of pits. I think that makes me more objective than people pushing BSL or people who generally fall into the category of pit bull apologist.

Anyone who looks at my record and does not see objectivity and responsibility is probably not being very objective themselves.

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[JaneEyre]

Someone mentioned how much a dog cost a month to care for. And that people shouldn't own a dog if this and that weren't met. I disagree. If the 'perfect' home was the only home for the dogs needing a home, there would thousands more euthanized than already are. And who gets to determine what perfect is? What works for one breed, or even one dog doesn't work for another. My Great Pyrenees would be miserable living in the city. He thrives on guarding his property and his livestock. Your perfect dog houses? He won't enter one. I know, I've bought him 2 and had one built for him. Will not enter it. When it snows, he chooses to lay in the snow. He comes in the house with us when he wants.

Show me one person that has never had life surprises, or changes. What might seem like the perfect plan at one point in your life, can quickly become a problem. Your aren't the same person at 30 as you were at 18. You aren't the same at 60 as you were at 30. Rescues can get themselves in binds by trying to judge or condemn owner's decisions. It benefits no one. It stresses the rescues, the volunteers, and the person needing help. Just not a good cycle to get in. Instead, realize life evolves, and roll with the flow. Not everyone can handle a newborn baby and a dog. So be it. Help them rehome that dog, or offer to keep it a month or so until the new parents settle into a routine. People get injured, become disabled, have to move into low income housing that won't accept animals, have a child that is highly allergic to the pet, have a parent that suddenly needs them to be a caretaker, has prolonged medical issues, or the owner may die, either suddenly, tragically, or from natural causes. Some families are not in a situation to take the animals. Some won't no matter what, others can't no matter what. Don't judge. Help the animal.

Where has anyone said they were judging her decision and would not have helped her with the dogs? As a rescue, I pointed out that she did what she thought she had to because this breed is so difficult to place (a lot of people pose as the perfect home while intending to fight them, so it takes longer to find a proper home for them).

I also stated that as a rescue I have worked with trainers to keep the dog in their current home, and other rescues do the same. Rescues are aware that changes happen in life and they do put the animals first. I spend a heck of a lot of time on the phone counseling people every week to get to the heart of the problem and hook them up with professionals who can help them if they are wanting to just fix the problem and not relinquish the cat or dog.

But I also take the animal off their hands immediately if I am able to if it is clear that the dog is suffering and they've had it. Rescues take the dogs and cats that humans have often screwed up and spend an incredible amount of time rehabbing those animals. I'm not sure why rescues are being dinged here. I see nothing that shows she contacted a rescue and got turned down or got criticized by them.

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[Trident]

First, you are referring to a site that Gitana provided many links to debunk. I suggest you go read those links before touting that site.

Second, I am an animal advocate, not a pit advocate. I advocate for all animals, yet I have clearly stated that I know when one is too far gone and needs to be put down. I listed some of the breeds I've had to euthanize for aggression earlier, which included a couple of pits. I think that makes me more objective than people pushing BSL or people who generally fall into the category of pit bull apologist.

Anyone who looks at my record and does not see objectivity and responsibility is probably not being very objective themselves.

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:beagle: :beagle:
Did you see what I saw?

 

[Jade]

<<Snipped BM for emphasis >>>

Pit bulls are not bred to attack humans. Fighting dogs that attack handlers or any people do not last long. >>>>

That is simply untrue.

Many have been deliberately bred as guards’ expectant to attack humans.

Prolific unscrupulous backyard breeders looking for these traits with some puppies ending up in shelters is why some of us are very cautious.

A PB in attack mode does not differentiate prey.

The proceeding statement is corroborated with links and quotes in posts on this thread.

 

[JaneEyre]

A lot has been made of pit bulls originally being bred to fight or take down large prey such as bulls. I'm going to list some of the other breeds that were originally bred for the same reasons, just as a point of reference.

The adorable English Bulldog (bullbaiting and dogfighting)

Boxer (bullbaiting and dogfighting)

Dogue de Bordeaux (to attack bulls, bears, and dogs)

Mastiff (hunters, guards, and fighters)

Great Dane (to take down wild boar)

Chinese Shar-Pei (hunting and dog fighting)

Borzoi (bred to hunt wolves)

Irish Wolf hound (to take down wolves, boars, stags and gigantic elk)

The extremely cute little Bedlington Terrier (dogfighter, ratter, and to hunt fox and badgers)

American Staffordshire Terrier (pit fighting)

Bull Terrier (dog fighting)

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (dog fighting and ratting)

This does not include the dozens of scent and sight hounds that were developed to hunt prey as large as deer. These dogs are often unsafe around small dogs, cats, and other pets. Even the small "ratters" developed to control vermin can be unsafe around cats and kids due to being high strung and having a high prey drive.

My point is that pits are not the only dogs who have their origins in fighting or taking out large prey, and that we tend to forget the nature of the creatures we house comfortably in our beds. Often, their nature is not respected because we forget, and we mishandle them unintentionally and do not provide for their true needs, making them crazy. Humans bear a lot of responsibility for what these animals become.

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[JaneEyre]

:beagle: :beagle:
Did you see what I saw?

I see that the problems with the data quoted continually from that website are being ignored. I also see that the fact that I assess each individual dog and euthanize for aggression no matter what the breed being ignored. I use a chart I developed to help me get past the love I have for these dogs and make objective decisions based on the chart, past experiences, what I've seen happen in other similar situations, and in conjunction with advice from other rescuers, shelter operators, dog trainers, and at least one vet.

I see that the experts quoted in many of these articles are also being ignored in favor of some highly emotional reactions based on preconceived notions and extremely shaky "research and stats."

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