IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #79

[ocgrad]

I'm picking up what you're putting down Shire, nice work. This creates an AH HA moment. Why did LE go to the motel then?

I kinda think you have to figure whether you believe the A&L investigation was inclusive or exclusive. Were they keeping their investigation tight within their hub in Delphi or were they using investigators all over the state? If you think they would have been following up on RSO just like we were looking at mugshots that fit the BG, eliminating some due to age or size or race, then were they asking detectives in those counties to touch base and follow up to either move them up or down, or would they have done that follow up with detectives central to the case? I think even without the sketch he fits close enough that someone should have been checking on him. Probably when a RSO who matches some of the physical characteristics is not found where they are supposed to be, like he was in late Apr/early May, that must move them up too. But I don't think it's a stretch to think that IN LE may have seen the sketch a day before the MSM. And it seems logical for any detective to compare the sketch to the RSOs in his file whether he was asked by HQ in Delphi or just on his own.

 

[Jabarn]

I kinda think you have to figure whether you believe the A&L investigation was inclusive or exclusive. Were they keeping their investigation tight within their hub in Delphi or were they using investigators all over the state? If you think they would have been following up on RSO just like we were looking at mugshots that fit the BG, eliminating some due to age or size or race, then were they asking detectives in those counties to touch base and follow up to either move them up or down, or would they have done that follow up with detectives central to the case? I think even without the sketch he fits close enough that someone should have been checking on him. Probably when a RSO who matches some of the physical characteristics is not found where they are supposed to be, like he was in late Apr/early May, that must move them up too. But I don't think it's a stretch to think that IN LE may have seen the sketch a day before the MSM. And it seems logical for any detective to compare the sketch to the RSOs in his file whether he was asked by HQ in Delphi or just on his own.

So true, and don’t know the original local investigators take on this case. Did they think they could solve it? When or how were the state and federal teams brought in. My feeling is the big guys (ISP and FBI) were on the case quickly, but why?

 

[tlcya]

:sweep: Some posts have been removed. No shut down of thread but a cautionary reminder: I get the frustration. No new news. Nothing from LE to say DN IS NOT BG. But nothing to tell us they think he is BG either. The round and round begins and it is hard to come to the thread each day to see the same circular debates.

As carbuff said: There are many cases that could use attention. If this thread is frustrating you maybe consider taking a break for a few days and checking out some other cases. It doesn't require an announcement or a vent beforehand.

Hang in there guys.

 

[sumzero]

Well, Folks, I do not think IN LE has DN's DNA, yet!
His SO charges in IN were unfortunately classified as misdemeanours, therefore LE did not collect his DNA. Recently IN changed the law to include misdemeanours effective Jan 1/2018. The only Felony charged was in Johnson County IN, thus the warrant. It is a Felony 6 charge, so they can extradite DN if they feel it is warranted. Also, please keep in mind that his Public Defender denied IN LE to interview DN. This judgement was recently lifted by the last Judge at DN's recent hearing.

I will find the links

This is simply not true. Time after time, we’ve posted the link to an article in which ISP Sgt Riley unequivocally states that IN has obtained DN’s DNA. This was in late September, IIRC. Please stop perpetuating misinformation. Thank you.

 

[Ember123]

As the POI we've been discussing was in Colorado and was then pulled over and arrested by CO LE, I wonder if LE has talked with the GF/or common law wife of POI's brother re: what she may know and are they trying to link phone calls to/from her phone to ascertain the location of said POI in CO on certain dates? Or maybe they would just use KN's phone. It is amazing how, given that we all carry phones these days it makes us all so trackable. But I realize this involves time, and money.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Plus, LE have to subpoena the owners of the cell towers.

People think it's easy to track cell/mobile data. It isn't, and it shouldn't be easy. It's a privacy matter with Constitutional protections here in the States.

In the Sydney Loofe case they had it in days. They also tracked the POI's by the FB videos they were broadcasting so it can be done sometimes. And SL was only missing at that stage. This was a double murder of two children with the FBI involved immediately. That should be a priority imo.

 

[gregjrichards]

Are there any rally’s or anything planned in Delphi for the anniversary? I wish there was a way to get a viral social media campaign going to show the sketch of monster’s face everywhere.

I just hope and pray he is not planning to go out and hunt for victims again in a similar location.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have done this:
3/21/15 Greenwood arrest for Marijuana, Driving and Paraphenalia - PDP with regular checkins, he rescheduled 2/22/17, was there 3/22/17, the next check in was 6/14/17 FTA, PDP cancelled, 7/17/17 Warrant.

4/6/15 Riggs Eviction - 2 yrs of hassles for payment, FTA Warrant Picked him up 2/24/17 Released 2/28/17. Owe $1005

7/24/15 Indecency Bartholomew Co - 1/13/16 sentenced 1 yr suspended w mental health, 10/10/16 Hearing to revoke, 3/6/17 disposed, sentencing 5/1/17 FTA, 6/5/17 second chance FTA, Warrant.

12/9/15 Battery, 3/31/16 sentenced 162 additional days, released in Jul/Aug 2016.

8/17/16 and 8/19/16 Plainfield - Driving and Parking, 10/6/16 Released, 12/7/16 90 day suspension (I don't think he even had a license!)

11/16/16 Marion County - Marijuana, Driving and Paraphernalia, PDP checkins 2/23/17, 3/23/17, 4/27/17 - change of Plea, PDP cancelled, 5/11/17 Hearing, 5/18/17 sentencing FTA, 5/25/17 Warrant. (This is the program that got him in the motel, consequently motel stay ended 5/12/17 when PDP ended).

12/27/17 Bortner eviction, 3/7/17 Owe $1782

4/25/17 Greenwood arrest for Driving and Paraphernalia, 5/30/17 Hearing FTA, 7/19/17 FTA, 10/18/17 Warrant.

Johnson County Failure to Register - 9/29/17 Warrant.
He had everything coming down really starting fall 2016 when he was released after the Battery which triggered the revocation of his suspended sentence in Bartholomew Co, the revocation hearing was supposed to be 1/9/17 but was reset for 3/6/17, all the time he was homeless. Then the failed drug check-in for PDP Marion Co could mean serving time and loss of housing.

The details are mind boggling. The Rickers incident was eventually pled down to just a misdemeanour and probation, which eventually transfered to Marion county according to how the documentation plays out. The DV was a felony so the conviction on that should have prompted a DNA collection when he was sentenced. So no match on his or anyone's DNA so far.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

NOT related but interesting, I think:

My Father, The Serial Killer

.....

How Did Edwards Stay Under the Radar So Long?
“He was a very charming guy, he was a very good-looking guy, he was funny. People said he would have been a great salesman had he not been a murderer. So he had been questioned once or twice, but he managed to ingratiate himself with the police. … He just managed to fool everybody because he was a likable guy.”

She “believes there’s murders out there that he was tied to that haven’t been discovered yet.”

Why Did Edwards Kill?
“[Balascio] says that really he liked to one-up the police, he was very, very smart. It was a cat-and-mouse game with him, and she thinks it was really about trying to fool everybody.”

Watch the premiere of People Magazine Investigates: My Father, The Serial Killer on Monday, Jan. 15, at 8 p.m. ET on Investigation Discovery.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Here is a piece of the puzzle as to where DN and possibly KN went after the Bortner's eviction. The Royal Inn, Marion County IN. The Greenwood Hotel was later.

"January 2017: Daniel Nations registers as a homeless sex offender living in Morgan County, Indiana. He told them he was living in Marion County at the Royal Inn. Because he is homeless, he is required by law to check in every 7 days and report where he is living".
Link: See Page 2
https://www.theindychannel.com/news...el-nations-be-connected-to-the-delphi-murders

Only 69 miles from Delphi. I wonder if this is where they watched TV coverage of the murders? (TV and refrigerator in every room)

I agree they may not have DNA from the Co trip due to the judge's order but they should already have it from the DV felony I believe. However, I don't think they have identifiable DNA from the CS for a match. Phone data will be important though.

:cow:

 

[MistyWaters]

Are there any rally’s or anything planned in Delphi for the anniversary? I wish there was a way to get a viral social media campaign going to show the sketch of monster’s face everywhere.

I just hope and pray he is not planning to go out and hunt for victims again in a similar location.

I've also wondered what is planned one year after the tragic deaths of Libby and Abby but I bet it will be something. In the past few months there's been Dr Oz and then Dr Phil, continuing focus to keep the unsolved case in the public eye. There's several documentary types shows that might be considered as well.

I think of the families often and how difficult it must be, first dealing with the loss of the sparkle in their lives and then the wondering, the questions, the waiting. Has it changed the lives of people in and around Delphi as well? Is it natural to look upon others with suspicion? I have great empathy for the police officers involved in the investigation too. The intensity, the frustration, all these passing days hoping for one critical lead that will help to solve the case. That one year is soon approaching I don't think anyone would've imagined early on.

 

[MistyWaters]

Plus, LE have to subpoena the owners of the cell towers.

People think it's easy to track cell/mobile data. It isn't, and it shouldn't be easy. It's a privacy matter with Constitutional protections here in the States.

It appears the current investigative focus is using the data from Delphi cellular towers to track users of those cellphones.

"One thing they’ve been doing is conducting additional follow-up on information provided by working with technology, mainly from cell phones.

“Some investigators continue to dig deeper into backtracking what certain people were doing on February 13,” he said, of the information captured from cell phones in the area that day.

“You just can’t clear out thousands of leads in a 10-month time period,” Leazenby said. “I wish I could give a timeline when we will have exhausted all the tips and leads.”
http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_b323b47e-f01c-11e7-9eb8-6b73cc09415a.html

 

[Steleheart]

It appears the current investigative focus is using the data from Delphi cellular towers to track users of those cellphones.

"One thing they’ve been doing is conducting additional follow-up on information provided by working with technology, mainly from cell phones.

“Some investigators continue to dig deeper into backtracking what certain people were doing on February 13,” he said, of the information captured from cell phones in the area that day.

“You just can’t clear out thousands of leads in a 10-month time period,” Leazenby said. “I wish I could give a timeline when we will have exhausted all the tips and leads.”
http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_b323b47e-f01c-11e7-9eb8-6b73cc09415a.html

I agree and I also think that LE had gotten the warrants way back then. It takes time for cell providers to respond to warrants for tower dumps and also for the software that matches cell numbers to specific times and locations. After they find matches to time, etc, they need a separate affidavit and then a warrant for each of the numbers and providers that they need personal information for. It's a slow process IMO.
I know that LE can request emergency pings for a known cell number regarding a person missing or in danger if the request is from family but I think it must be from the person who pays the account. My wife did it for me (I was fishing and changed locations, LOL She couldn't reach me. Oh well.)

This is old but it gives an idea what can be recovered frrom cell numbers and when.
https://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-loc...ponse-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart

 

[Jax49]

Regarding DNA - Yes, they have DN's DNA.

He said police also have obtained samples of Nations' DNA, which has become a common procedure over the course of the seven-month-long investigation. He added that the samples will be compared to evidence gathered at the crime scene.

"We check DNA on everybody that has been investigated," Riley said. "Every person that we have talked to, we've gotten a DNA swab from.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...swers-soon-delphi-double-homicides/713451001/

bbm

 

[JnRyan]

It appears the current investigative focus is using the data from Delphi cellular towers to track users of those cellphones.

"One thing they’ve been doing is conducting additional follow-up on information provided by working with technology, mainly from cell phones.

“Some investigators continue to dig deeper into backtracking what certain people were doing on February 13,” he said, of the information captured from cell phones in the area that day.

“You just can’t clear out thousands of leads in a 10-month time period,” Leazenby said. “I wish I could give a timeline when we will have exhausted all the tips and leads.”
http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_b323b47e-f01c-11e7-9eb8-6b73cc09415a.html

I can see the enormous volume of tips in this case creating a monster of problem just by itself. 24K-25K or more in tips creates a information management problem alone. I can see, in the early stages at least, LE having a dedicated person setting up a database. Maybe in MS Access. For example, Tip # 2000 might be looked at and put aside and later Tip # 17000 may cause LE to want reexamine, maybe from a different angle. Tip # 2000 may have been followed up on by an investigator who is no longer on the team and now the Tip #17000 may be different and dependent on how well the Tip #2000's investigator documented their work. Having 2 different investigators look at the same tip might be good in having fresh set of eyes. But it also might be bad in that it causes the second investigator to work it from scratch only to come to the same dead end. That is, LE just tried to reinvent the wheel.

Ten months down the road, a tip or lead may come in and the team may think, 'That looks familiar, but I [we] don't remember exactly where we saw that set of circumstances.' Depending on how well the database is set up and how user friendly it might be LE may be able to query a particular attribute and come up with what they vaguely remember.

24K to 25K in tips coupled with the fact some temporarily assigned LE personnel from other places means LE can no longer depend on memory or even paper files. Information technology may have special place with this investigation.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Regarding DNA - Yes, they have DN's DNA.



http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...swers-soon-delphi-double-homicides/713451001/

bbm

From "everybody they talked to" . Now we know they could not talk to DN alone because of a judge's ruling. And DN said his attorney did not tell him LE were there.
I do think they have his DNA from the DV sentencing however.

 

[masquerading]

Are there any rally’s or anything planned in Delphi for the anniversary? I wish there was a way to get a viral social media campaign going to show the sketch of monster’s face everywhere.

I just hope and pray he is not planning to go out and hunt for victims again in a similar location.

I do assume there will be a rally or event of some sort in Delphi - so far they've proven to be an incredibly close-knit and supportive community. To my knowledge, nothing has been announced at this point, but I've been keeping an eye on local news.

This case gets more heartbreaking the longer it goes without a resolution. [emoji174]

 

[kkdj]

From "everybody they talked to" . Now we know they could not talk to DN alone because of a judge's ruling. And DN said his attorney did not tell him LE were there.
I do think they have his DNA from the DV sentencing however.

Sorry if this has been answered already but where is DN? Is he out of CO jail?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I can see the enormous volume of tips in this case creating a monster of problem just by itself. 24K-25K or more in tips creates a information management problem alone. I can see, in the early stages at least, LE having a dedicated person setting up a database. Maybe in MS Access. For example, Tip # 2000 might be looked at and put aside and later Tip # 17000 may cause LE to want reexamine, maybe from a different angle. Tip # 2000 may have been followed up on by an investigator who is no longer on the team and now the Tip #17000 may be different and dependent on how well the Tip #2000's investigator documented their work. Having 2 different investigators look at the same tip might be good in having fresh set of eyes. But it also might be bad in that it causes the second investigator to work it from scratch only to come to the same dead end. That is, LE just tried to reinvent the wheel.

Ten months down the road, a tip or lead may come in and the team may think, 'That looks familiar, but I [we] don't remember exactly where we saw that set of circumstances.' Depending on how well the database is set up and how user friendly it might be LE may be able to query a particular attribute and come up with what they vaguely remember.

24K to 25K in tips coupled with the fact some temporarily assigned LE personnel from other places means LE can no longer depend on memory or even paper files. Information technology may have special place with this investigation.

Indeed it is a large data source to plough through. However LE have said they have hundreds of POI's so that hopefully means less than 1,000. So I guess they have started with them, out of which we only know one. LE had his phone number already, back in June/July time frame so hopefully that is one that has been subpoena'd. If it takes 8 months as a poster mentioned upthread, then the families are in for a long wait unfortunately.

 

[Jax49]

From "everybody they talked to" . Now we know they could not talk to DN alone because of a judge's ruling. And DN said his attorney did not tell him LE were there.
I do think they have his DNA from the DV sentencing however.

He said police also have obtained samples of Nations' DNA

Per Riley they got DN's dna, as reported on Sept 29th.