CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

[Spice]

Can the county force them to live in a certain location, though? If the adults want to leave, can they? If one or more of the adults tries to leave, can the county go pick them up and restrain them? IDK

Parens Patriae is a very real doctrine used legally in cases like this, it is also a philosophy that is applied throughout our country in cases this severe within the child welfare and mental health systems. There are different ways to view this philosophy, as in the state as parent or tyrant. But the only tyrants here, in this moment, while these siblings enter the healing process and individuation, are LT/DT. Their alleged chronic torture, absolute depravation, and abuse of all of these siblings, most of which are adults and adolescents, has left them currently unable to function at their respective age levels for the time being.

The court has already asserted in their charges that they are considering the adult siblings as "dependent adults".

imho.

parens patriae
Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary

(par-ens pa-tree-ee) Latin for "parent of his or her country." The power of the state to act as guardian for those who are unable to care for themselves, such as children or disabled individuals. For example, under this doctrine a judge may change custody, child support, or other rulings affecting a child's well-being, regardless of what the parents may have agreed to.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/parens_patriae

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I wondered about that based on his grooming when arrested. It's funny that none of the neighbors have commented that they see him daily going to and from work. But Taco Bell employees saw him daily. I think you're right about working from home.

It is possible that he did not work at this point. Once upon a time when I was on the East Coast, I worked on a government project as a contractor with TRW. Northrop acquired TRW at some point years ago. Most of these contractors like Northrop bill the government for each of the employees that they have on assignment. Most of these government clients require that they approve all staff assigned to a particular project. Although it may be that the government clients are not as picky as they used to be, I'm having a hard time imagining this guy being charged out to a government project, but perhaps he worked in the internal IT department or something. If he had some sort of security clearance, he would need to be on site at a government installation more than likely because the work materials usually can't be taken out of the building.

 

[taula&sierra]

I wanted to make a few comments again based on my opinion and observations on this drawing.

1. I have a 4 year Old and I am also an abuse survivor.
2. The drawing is something of a 4 year old cognitive level, HOWEVER the level it is at is of someone taller.
3. Given the above I am fairly certain the name written is “Jeni”.
4. In some of the other photos I have seen of the same drawing you can see faint erased liked marks. It’s almost as if the circles have gotten bigger or as if the person drawing it added more circles.
5. Those are definitely genitalia, and my 4 year Old DOES NOT draw them. She does however draw big hearts in everyone’s belly because to her & at this age; the most important thing is to have love for each other.

Given the above, and please do not attack me if you disagree ... BUT In this scenario alone I would tend to speculate that the oldest (Jennifer) was quite possibly sexually abused and quite possibly either keeping track of how many times it happened, how many times she was pregnant or how many babies she had. Again purely speculative of one drawing..

My heart is broken either way....

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I live in southern California, in earthquake country, and I don't know of anyone who chains their refrigerator to the wall........no one does that! In an earthquake, refrigerators don't fall over.......they move while still upright.

They make "earthquake straps" for furniture..........heavy upright pieces of furniture like hutches, tall bookcases, etc., but nothing for refrigerators. The straps are made of steel and are one solid piece that attaches to a stud in the wall.

Try #2:

I am also in Southern California, where I've been for more than 20 years, and I have never heard of anyone chaining a refrigerator to the wall to keep it from falling over in an earthquake.

 

[rsd1200]

Can the county force them to live in a certain location, though? If the adults want to leave, can they? If one or more of the adults tries to leave, can the county go pick them up and restrain them? IDK

I don't think that they can force the adults to do anything they don't want. Special needs or not, at age 18, unless they've committed a crime, they're free to walk right out that door. The state might appoint someone over any funds that the siblings may receive/have, but that's pretty much it, I think.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I remember first reading about this case and thinking who would make t-shirts for their children that said thing 1, thing 2, etc.
I guess that really tickled LT.

In a normal happy family who loved "The Cat in the Hat," it would make sense as a family joke.

Not the case here, obviously.

 

[December]

I wondered about that based on his grooming when arrested. It's funny that none of the neighbors have commented that they see him daily going to and from work. But Taco Bell employees saw him daily. I think you're right about working from home.

If he worked second shift, he could possibly be at home during Taco Bell time. Maybe it will be revealed for sure if he worked from home.

 

[Spice]

By the way, Tricia has problem solved a solution for sharing the article with the trigger warning. I just got home from a birthday celebration and will be responding to her tomorrow for further clarification as to how to move forward. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[ocgrad]

The developmental levels of children’s drawings by Lowenfeld indicate to me it was drawn by a 4-6 year old. The fingers on the hands are very telling as to age.

I respect your expertise but it seems a bit large and high on the wall to be drawn by a young child to me. I've drawn little sketches for kids and I don't worry about putting 5 fingers on them. I don't think these same concepts apply to adult drawings since adults can understand making something just representative. So isn't it possible it could have been drawn by one of the teens or adults especially considering how high it is?

 

[Spice]

I respect your expertise but it seems a bit large and high on the wall to be drawn by a young child to me. I've drawn little sketches for kids and I don't worry about putting 5 fingers on them. I don't think these same concepts apply to adult drawings since adults can understand making something just representative. So isn't it possible it could have been drawn by one of the teens or adults especially considering how high it is?

BBM
The survivor who drew this could have been sitting or standing on a piece of furniture in order for the drawing to be sitting that high on the wall. It looks to me as if this may have been sketched above a headboard. We also have to remember that these "children" are mostly adults and adolescents with the exception of the 2 year old baby. Although malnourished due to starvation and torture, they do not truly stand as "small" as they appear in our minds.

I have had to be mindful of this repeatedly . My mind just sees them as small children. They are not.

 

[ocgrad]

It is possible that he did not work at this point. Once upon a time when I was on the East Coast, I worked on a government project as a contractor with TRW. Northrop acquired TRW at some point years ago. Most of these contractors like Northrop bill the government for each of the employees that they have on assignment. Most of these government clients require that they approve all staff assigned to a particular project. Although it may be that the government clients are not as picky as they used to be, I'm having a hard time imagining this guy being charged out to a government project, but perhaps he worked in the internal IT department or something. If he had some sort of security clearance, he would need to be on site at a government installation more than likely because the work materials usually can't be taken out of the building.

I think he was an electrical engineer. I also wonder if he has gone through periods of unemployment.

 

[opalpearl]

I respect your expertise but it seems a bit large and high on the wall to be drawn by a young child to me. I've drawn little sketches for kids and I don't worry about putting 5 fingers on them. I don't think these same concepts apply to adult drawings since adults can understand making something just representative. So isn't it possible it could have been drawn by one of the teens or adults especially considering how high it is?

I read an article that stated there were bunks beds in one of the places they lived. Maybe the drawing was done from a top bunk. MOO.

Here is one such article, though, not the one I was thinking of. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...kids-allegedly-held-captive-article-1.3761773

 

[rsd1200]

I have to admit that I haven’t been able to keep up with all the posts here, but it seems like there is a consensus that LT is the person that is most responsible for the abuse. I have to ask what this conclusion is based on? Is not DT just as responsible? Or maybe even more? What in the information given by the LE makes LT more of a culprit?

It is very possible that this is the case, but I can’t recall seeing any statements to this that proves it is a fact.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

I believe that he is just as much to blame as she.

 

[mtnlites]

In a normal happy family who loved "The Cat in the Hat," it would make sense as a family joke.

Not the case here, obviously.

Yeah, seriously. I dressed my kids up as Thing 1 and Thing 2 with those same shirts for a Halloween party. Of course, I also feed my kids, allow them to bathe, and don't chain them to their beds so...

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I believe that he is just as much to blame as she.

As do I.

 

[rsd1200]

LT was a stay-at-home mother and primary caregiver. DT worked.

Not to be snarky, but he isn't blind. Just by doing nothing, he was condoning. I don't see him as being abused by, or fearful of, LT.

 

[Spice]

I read an article that stated there were bunks beds in one of the places they lived. Maybe the drawing was done from a top bunk.

Get out of my head.

 

[Spice]

As do I.

I am on this team as well. Equal blame. In fact, I am consistently shocked regarding that narrative and vitriol knowing what we know about their backgrounds. I don't see her as the "ringleader".

Never have.

This amount of torture is the responsibility of both parents and a reflection of a 'partnership" in depravity.

They were both raised with old school religious doctrines. LT's father was a religious leader or Pastor. I think DT's father was also a religious figure. Or was it his brother who wrote about "fasting" as a form of discipline?

According to the sister, DT and LT went from there respective upbringings and then "left the church" and began exploring "other religious practices". DT's parents stated it was DT's and her belief that it was "God's Will" for him to have so many children. A patently patriarchal belief and framework.

Historically, since FOREVER, the vast majority of religions are patriarchal in nature.

No way is anyone going to convince me this was all LT , that she was the lone demon in the situation. They are both equally responsible. Women are notoriously placed in submissive positions in the majority of religions. She was a 16 year old girl when he allegedly began pursuing her and apparently kidnapped her in an effort to convince her to elope. He was a grown man. She was a still a minor. Her parents did not protect her. Her mother enabled it and then her father effectively abandoned her in response.

I think the hyper focused vitriol toward LT as the "ringleader" speaks more to our uncomfortable feelings with a mother figure abandoning her maternal role of instinctual protector.

"Mothers" like this just challenge all of our narratives, gender roles, and all that we view as normal, and we just cannot process it. So we lash out at the woman specifically and the man in these particular situations is painted as the "follower" and the "weak one".

In fact, it is one of the few situations where we will do so.

Nope. Not buying it. Not by a longshot.

:moo:

 

[vlpate]

I wanted to make a few comments again based on my opinion and observations on this drawing.

1. I have a 4 year Old and I am also an abuse survivor.
2. The drawing is something of a 4 year old cognitive level, HOWEVER the level it is at is of someone taller.
3. Given the above I am fairly certain the name written is “Jeni”.
4. In some of the other photos I have seen of the same drawing you can see faint erased liked marks. It’s almost as if the circles have gotten bigger or as if the person drawing it added more circles.
5. Those are definitely genitalia, and my 4 year Old DOES NOT draw them. She does however draw big hearts in everyone’s belly because to her & at this age; the most important thing is to have love for each other.

Given the above, and please do not attack me if you disagree ... BUT In this scenario alone I would tend to speculate that the oldest (Jennifer) was quite possibly sexually abused and quite possibly either keeping track of how many times it happened, how many times she was pregnant or how many babies she had. Again purely speculative of one drawing..

My heart is broken either way....

Are you saying you have seen more than one version of this photo?

 

[ocgrad]

I read an article that stated there were bunks beds in one of the places they lived. Maybe the drawing was done from a top bunk. MOO.

Here is one such article, though, not the one I was thinking of. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...kids-allegedly-held-captive-article-1.3761773

Yes for sure it could have been drawn by a younger child from a top bunk. It just seems to have a certain quality, I think how well done the facial expression is and the circles both round and even spacing that makes me see it as done by an older teen or adult .