OH OH - Roberta 'Bobby' Snider, 70, Hartville, 4 Jan 2018 *Guilty*

[Seajay]

Wow, just wow. What a case.

Like so many others, I have experience with a parents with dementia and a FIL with Alzheimer's. Those of you who have weighed in on what it is, what it does, how it manifests itself wth each individual parting is right on. Bring back so many memories of heartbreaking incidence.

At 70. PS could certain joy have it and it would tie into his stories and all the confusion.

He also can be a cunning murderer who thinks he can get away with it. Who knows? I'm sure LE is on top of this, checking out what they can verify. Dementia, terminal cancer, etc. it takes time.

In the meantime, it has come up in discussion about the kids not watching over hr,, family not involved in their care, especially if she was terminal and he has dementia.

My husband passed away in April. I asked my two children for a year to see how I do on my own. They both live in another state. After losing my husband, I did not want to give up my home, my friends, my life.

6 months after he passed, I discovered a lump in my breast. I have cancer. I am alone. My kids started circling the wagons, wanting me to leave my home, my doctors, my life.

I am in the beginning of my chemotherapy. Had my first round last week. They are in constant contact with me, Ready and alert to pull me out of here and move me to a God forsaken state I will hate.

I want my independence as long as I can have it without it being an inconvenience to anyone else. I have friends checking in on me, taking me to appointments, picking up meds.

I don't want my kids to give up their lives if they don't have to. They would in a minute, but I don't want the added guilt I would feel that I am causing them anything but the kind of lives I wanted for them. They know when I'm done, I'm done, I will tell them.

So maybe his is how it was for the Sniders. FWIW

 

[JazzTune]

I just pray that she died on her own, of either a natural cause or illness, if she had one. The family hasn't stated one way or the other if there was any known terminal medical issues going on, so I don't know what to make of it.

It is possible a medication overdose or under dose or mixed dosages could have affected his actions, but I have a hard time believing that if this was the case, he'd have been able to drive back and forth to Graceland, get a hotel room, buy garbage bags, toss her body in the river, clean the truck, get gas and food- with medication issues. It's honestly a bit far fetched to me that it would be a dosage issue, unless he had a mental health issue and wasn't taking his medications for a couple of weeks- then we might have a lithium imbalance or something of the sort.

I don't know what else to add- I can't help but think of this lady and hoping and praying that he didn't toss her over the bridge alive that morning out of anger or whatever have you.

Good post! Your logic is why I stay on the fence, and can't give him the complete pass the way I wish I could...

 

[Steelslady]

Wow, just wow. What a case.

Like so many others, I have experience with a parents with dementia and a FIL with Alzheimer's. Those of you who have weighed in on what it is, what it does, how it manifests itself wth each individual parting is right on. Bring back so many memories of heartbreaking incidence.

At 70. PS could certain joy have it and it would tie into his stories and all the confusion.

He also can be a cunning murderer who thinks he can get away with it. Who knows? I'm sure LE is on top of this, checking out what they can verify. Dementia, terminal cancer, etc. it takes time.

In the meantime, it has come up in discussion about the kids not watching over hr,, family not involved in their care, especially if she was terminal and he has dementia.

My husband passed away in April. I asked my two children for a year to see how I do on my own. They both live in another state. After losing my husband, I did not want to give up my home, my friends, my life.

6 months after he passed, I discovered a lump in my breast. I have cancer. I am alone. My kids started circling the wagons, wanting me to leave my home, my doctors, my life.

I am in the beginning of my chemotherapy. Had my first round last week. They are in constant contact with me, Ready and alert to pull me out of here and move me to a God forsaken state I will hate.

I want my independence as long as I can have it without it being an inconvenience to anyone else. I have friends checking in on me, taking me to appointments, picking up meds.

I don't want my kids to give up their lives if they don't have to. They would in a minute, but I don't want the added guilt I would feel that I am causing them anything but the kind of lives I wanted for them. They know when I'm done, I'm done, I will tell them.

So maybe his is how it was for the Sniders. FWIW

You are an amazing tower of strength lady! That is wonderful that your children are involved and making sure you are ok. That has to be hard for them to be miles away from you, no doubt they are worried sick about losing you, too. They're also grieving their father's death- it's only natural that they are very protective of you, being the lone parent now. It is nice to know, that you are never alone, that they are willing to take you into their homes and help you- you and your husband raised wonderful children, seejay!

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[Steelslady]

Good post! Your logic is why I stay on the fence, and can't give him the complete pass the way I wish I could...

Thanks. I really want this man to be innocent of anything sinister. I don't want him to be guilty of harming a woman that he's been married to since their teen years. Yet, this part of me can't help think, with all the folks I've known, and a couple that I took care of personally or visited to help loved ones and friends get a break, to patients I have worked with- I just can't believe a person with dementia could do all this. Then again, there are times in the medical profession where the unexplainable happens- from miracles occurring on rare occasions, people outliving the time frame given to them by years, tumors disappearing that were terminal, on and on. So, he could be one of those unique cases that was able to perform all of these activities with dementia, him being a rare, if almost unheard of, case. I just hope for her family's sake that they get an answer soon, that she is found so they can grieve and get closure on what is obviously a devastating and frightening time for them all. We don't even know if she has officially passed away- so far, there hasn't been a proof that she has died!

 

[KooshBall]

I'm not buying the dementia story, especially if Bobby ends up being found wrapped in plastic.

 

[JazzTune]

Wow, just wow. What a case.

Like so many others, I have experience with a parents with dementia and a FIL with Alzheimer's. Those of you who have weighed in on what it is, what it does, how it manifests itself wth each individual parting is right on. Bring back so many memories of heartbreaking incidence.

At 70. PS could certain joy have it and it would tie into his stories and all the confusion.

He also can be a cunning murderer who thinks he can get away with it. Who knows? I'm sure LE is on top of this, checking out what they can verify. Dementia, terminal cancer, etc. it takes time.

In the meantime, it has come up in discussion about the kids not watching over hr,, family not involved in their care, especially if she was terminal and he has dementia.

My husband passed away in April. I asked my two children for a year to see how I do on my own. They both live in another state. After losing my husband, I did not want to give up my home, my friends, my life.

6 months after he passed, I discovered a lump in my breast. I have cancer. I am alone. My kids started circling the wagons, wanting me to leave my home, my doctors, my life.

I am in the beginning of my chemotherapy. Had my first round last week. They are in constant contact with me, Ready and alert to pull me out of here and move me to a God forsaken state I will hate.

I want my independence as long as I can have it without it being an inconvenience to anyone else. I have friends checking in on me, taking me to appointments, picking up meds.

I don't want my kids to give up their lives if they don't have to. They would in a minute, but I don't want the added guilt I would feel that I am causing them anything but the kind of lives I wanted for them. They know when I'm done, I'm done, I will tell them.

So maybe his is how it was for the Sniders. FWIW

Thank you Seajay, for sharing this with us. So sorry about the loss of your husband. That must have been such a devastating blow, and now a cancer diagnosis on top of it. Oh my! You've really got a lot to deal with.

I hope your kids know how blessed they are to have a mother with such a caring, and unselfish attitude toward them. It's so understandable too that you wouldn't want to give up your home or your independence.

Your explanation has really helped me understand the possibility of similar dynamics of Philip and Roberta's family as well. That was a really good point.

Thank you for being here, and for using your painful situation to try to help others.

Again, so sorry you have to go through so much. Wishing you the best with your treatments ahead, and hope life treats you with kindness as you move forward...

 

[Seajay]

I had seeen some posts that had asked why they Sniders were alone, with family around and why didn't they have care.

It occurr d to me they could be just like me and my attitude.

I'm sure they do have others, who are local, helping them with projects, getting groceries, helping them go shopping, got no to doctor appointments and getting their meds. I know I do. My husband's family is here and part of mine, so they check on me. Possibility the Sniders had people like that?

Honestly have to say, I am on the fence myself about that his but I know enough about dementia and Alzheimer's to know what he is saying, could be HIS reality. It's something he may have seen, experienced at one point in his life, seen on TV or at a movie. The human mind is amazing and complex. No one is sure why it starts misfiring.

And like I said, this guy could also be trying to pull off the most cunning and manipulative, cruel murder in three states. I'm gonna wait on LE to sort it all out.

Roberta does need to b found and returned to her family.

One thing I questioned in his ambulance/EMT story is, someone had to have paid an ambulance service, someone would have had to pay someone for a death pronouncement at a hospital or someplace. So that story seems completely improbable.

Depending on his strength, I suppose it's possible he shoved her over a rail at a river in garbage bags. I just hope they can collect enough documentation to get to the truth without him. It would be a shame to lock him up with him having senility that he can't even help.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

If her body was in the back of the truck, probably wouldn't take much to have backed the rear of the truck up to the guard rail and pulled her out and over the guard rail that way

 

[meanmaryjean]

I understand where you are coming from. Once had an elderly patient brought, dry, extremely hypotensive, fainting. She was taking Lasix and furosemide, same drug, one brand name, one generic. Polypharmacy is a big problem. I’ll wait out, with you, though, to see if there was a mental break of some kind. I respect your insight. But I’ll doubt we will ever hear for sure.

Oh man- my late Father-in-law did EXACTLY that, except his K+ was 1.9! And then he argued with me that because two different doctors prescribed Lasix and furosemide- they couldn't possibly be the same drug. Ugh- that man was a stubborn old goat!

 

[meanmaryjean]

If her body was in the back of the truck, probably wouldn't take much to have backed the rear of the truck up to the guard rail and pulled her out and over the guard rail that way

But don't you think someone would have noticed a truck perpendicular to traffic on the bridge?

 

[Limecat]

So many deeply personal and heartbreaking struggles some of you have spoken of. My heart and prayers go out to you all.

I can’t even say if I’m on the fence but if I am, I’m willing to admit the fence is leaning severely. And not just due to all the birthday cake I ate last night. Well, maybe partly that but I digress.

The only thing keeping me clinging to my wobbly fence at all is the possibility that Mr. Snider is indeed incapacitated mentally in some way. But until I hear some more definitive information, I can’t get past my hinky vibe.

I know we can’t have all the answers, but I think there are some questions that could be easily cleared up without relying on Mr. Snider’s “memory”.

Was Bobby actually terminally ill? Was it cancer?

Proof that Bobby’s doctor said she shouldn’t / couldn’t endure such a long trip. This confirmation would also solve how sick she was and if indeed she just wanted to see Graceland before she died.

I just struggle with Bobby being at death’s door and agreeing to an 11 hour drive. I have a severe back injury and I would love to drive 15 hours to see some of my family but I can’t do it. Can’t even ride that long. I just couldn’t endure it, and I’m certainly not at death’s door.

Do other members of her family know of this urgent desire to see Graceland?

If Mr. Snider is mentally impaired, then I can see some of the scenarios. But if he’s well enough to drive that entire trip, stay at hotels, all the other necessities that a trip entails, I can’t help but feel like he’s not THAT impaired. Not so impaired that he couldn’t buy plastic bags and ask about car washes. That feels so damning to me.

I just keep coming back to if she died of cancer/natural causes that even if it happened on the trip, of course you’d call 911 and the family. No reason to be worried about police involvement.

If Bobby did die (naturally or otherwise) during the trip then Mr Snider would have had to get her out of the front of the vehicle and put her in the back, which would be physically daunting not to mention the risk of being seen. And then later, he would have to maneuver her over the railing of the bridge. Dead weight.

My mom is 96 and weighs 130. She’s 5’4”. I’m 54, 5’9” and just forget about my weight but it’s more than my mom by a long shot. She slid off her chair onto the floor and it was all I could do with her help to get her back up. There is no way in holy heck I could get her lifeless body out of my car.

That little lizardy, primal part of my brain says she never left home alive and I can’t get past it.

MOO





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[Steelslady]

Limecat, excellent post! I agree with everything you said- everything!

I, too, don't feel she was alive when he made that trip to Graceland Even if it she did die on the road, how could you ride with a corpse in the back of the truck so calmly? People with dementia get frightened easily, especially when the person they live with isn't around to be like a security blanket for them. I just don't know how this man managed to do all that he did on this trip alone, without help. Had this happened locally, I might think it possible, but Graceland isn't exactly a few miles away from their home.

It just seems to planned out, too many details to attend to, for someone with dementia. Even in the early stages of dementia, their short term memory is the most affected, yet he was able to perform tasks without trouble that normally affect people with dementia. My sibling needed my help for everything when she was first diagnosed with it. She would constantly lose things like her keys, wallet, cell phone, and she would panic until I found them. If she wanted something at the store and we were going shopping together, i would write a list for her and a list for myself with not just things I needed, but hers, too, because she would constantly lose her list. I was constantly having to be her memory. It's funny because she could remember what we ate for breakfast on a camping trip back in 1968, but she couldn't remember where her glasses were after taking them off five minutes before. This was the early stages, to which on the outside, she would appear normal to others and her "forgetfulness" would be normal to others. They didn't live with her, so they didn't see the daily tasks I had of keeping things in order for her, and there were times she would literally freak out when i tried to help her with daily living skills. She also refused to take medications, said she didn't need them, claiming doctors were in cohoots with the pharmaceutical companies, trying to take our money by putting us on medications we didn't need,

There is no way my sister could have driven that distance and did all that PS did without having some sort of melt down along the way. She would have been scared and confused and it would have been very evident to a stranger that something wasn't right, when she would panic. I mean, she had her cell phone with her as did my husband, and we all went mall walking Straight line, up and down, there were no lefts or rights to take, unless you went to the bathroom. We told her if she was done walking or browsing the stores (she loved to shop), to meet us at the food court- it's right in the middle of the mall. Well, after 10 minutes, she started texting my husband that she couldn't find us. We called her and repeated the meeting place, told her we wouldn't be done for at another 40 minutes. She texted us non-stop, over and over- "where are you? Are you done yet? I've been sitting here for over an hour!" even though only five minutes had past. We would go to the food court, and she wouldn't be there. We called her back, and she said she was in the candle store, that she had been there all along, confusing us because we walked by there several times, and she wasn't there. We found her finally, after texting and calling her a few more times- I swear we got more exercise chasing her down because she was panicking, then we would have if we had just been able to do our normal walking routine. Oh, and we had done this before with her a couple of other times, so it wasn't like it was the first time. We never brought her again, as it was too stressful for us to keep going through this every time we wanted to exercise.

So, I just can't picture this scenario that he carried out, without him calling the police, a family member, or even talking to a stranger to get help, if she had died. I can't imagine the level of calm he sustained all the way to Graceland and back. I forget how long he was there- at least a two day trip, anyway- but that's an awful long time to not have a moment of panic and fright.

Like I said above in another post I made last night- it is possible that this really happened the way he said it did, but this one for sure would be one for the medical books as a rare, if almost impossible, scenario for a dementia patients.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Limecat and Steelslady- well said!

My own personal tipping point is that obituary.

 

[Philigumbo]

Limecat and Steelslady- well said!

My own personal tipping point is that obituary.

Mine, too.

 

[Steelslady]

Mine, too.

Same here. Others have said that she might have pre-written her obituary and given it to the funeral home to publish when she died. If that's the case, then where are her ashes? It said she was being cremated- alluding that the funeral home had her body previously and sent it to the crematory. Pretty ballsy if you ask me, for the husband to publish that obituary- how funny he could remember to do that but couldn't remember where the ambulance took her body (his first story) and he made it home safe and sound without incident after dumping her off in the river.

I'm really curious as to what his state of mind was like around his family and friends when he got back.

 

[Limecat]

Limecat and Steelslady- well said!

My own personal tipping point is that obituary.

Dang it I meant to mention that, too. That obituary is uber weird. I mean SOMEONE had to submit it. Who did? Another big red light going off in my lizardy brain.




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[Seajay]

Steelslady, your post brought back so many memories of my father when he was getting dementia.

He passed at 86 but looking back, he had it for quiet awhile before, as they all do. Misplacing things, forgetting things, just little stuff at first. I'm trying to remember now what he was capable of at 70 and what he would have done in that type of situation.

I remember he was still drivIng. However he had gotten to a point where he couldn't make the long trips to their summer place, pulling the travel trailer. My brothers had to start doing that for him. He got easily flustered and felt out of his element where before it had been something he did all the time.

I know he sometimes had a disconnect with what was appropriate, what made sense, what was right and wrong.

They lived in the mountains and he couldn't get a fire to light. He thought it would be a great idea to use a plastic bottle, fill it with gasoline and throw it on the fire. Needless to say, that didn't end well. Flame followed the gasoline, bottle melted as he ran out the door, catching the carpeting on fire, then his pant legs, catching himself in fire. Mom had to put him out with an old blanket on the deck.

But it made sense to him. We had a helluva time trying to convince him never to do that again. We bought him starter logs. When we told him if he did something lie that again we would be moving them out, he accused us of trying to steal his money and get rid of him, and that if we moved him, he would poison himself cuz he was never leaving there. He was 80 by that time.

He would surprise me with the strength he still had sometimes. Other times he was a meek as a kitten. He'd putter around out in the garage but he did need more help for his projects.

He would forget places he worked for 30 years and how he got there. He never forgot us though, although he thought my daughter was his nurse at one point.

Towards the end, while in the hospital, he regaled the nurses it's stories of deer hunting trips he'd recently taken (it had been 10 years since he'd last gone), talking about the stuff he needed to remember to tell the guys at work when he got back there (he had been retired for 30 years. Talked about people we never heard of then got upset with us because we didn't know who he meant. He had sundowning and in general was moody and angry all the time. I also have to say that one night he told my mom to lock her bedroom door cuz he had voices telling him to kill her. Just remembered that one. Oh yeh, the memories.

Don't know now the point I was trying to make with this. But I hope something makes sense and ties into this case and what could be going in with PS and what happened to RS.

 

[Seajay]

Dang it I meant to mention that, too. That obituary is uber weird. I mean SOMEONE had to submit it. Who did? Another big red light going off in my lizardy brain.




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Yes, that would certainly be telling, if we can get it explained how it came to be and who placed the obit in the paper.

 

[Limecat]

Limecat, excellent post! I agree with everything you said- everything!

I, too, don't feel she was alive when he made that trip to Graceland Even if it she did die on the road, how could you ride with a corpse in the back of the truck so calmly? People with dementia get frightened easily, especially when the person they live with isn't around to be like a security blanket for them. I just don't know how this man managed to do all that he did on this trip alone, without help. Had this happened locally, I might think it possible, but Graceland isn't exactly a few miles away from their home.

It just seems to planned out, too many details to attend to, for someone with dementia. Even in the early stages of dementia, their short term memory is the most affected, yet he was able to perform tasks without trouble that normally affect people with dementia. My sibling needed my help for everything when she was first diagnosed with it. She would constantly lose things like her keys, wallet, cell phone, and she would panic until I found them. If she wanted something at the store and we were going shopping together, i would write a list for her and a list for myself with not just things I needed, but hers, too, because she would constantly lose her list. I was constantly having to be her memory. It's funny because she could remember what we ate for breakfast on a camping trip back in 1968, but she couldn't remember where her glasses were after taking them off five minutes before. This was the early stages, to which on the outside, she would appear normal to others and her "forgetfulness" would be normal to others. They didn't live with her, so they didn't see the daily tasks I had of keeping things in order for her, and there were times she would literally freak out when i tried to help her with daily living skills. She also refused to take medications, said she didn't need them, claiming doctors were in cohoots with the pharmaceutical companies, trying to take our money by putting us on medications we didn't need,

There is no way my sister could have driven that distance and did all that PS did without having some sort of melt down along the way. She would have been scared and confused and it would have been very evident to a stranger that something wasn't right, when she would panic. I mean, she had her cell phone with her as did my husband, and we all went mall walking Straight line, up and down, there were no lefts or rights to take, unless you went to the bathroom. We told her if she was done walking or browsing the stores (she loved to shop), to meet us at the food court- it's right in the middle of the mall. Well, after 10 minutes, she started texting my husband that she couldn't find us. We called her and repeated the meeting place, told her we wouldn't be done for at another 40 minutes. She texted us non-stop, over and over- "where are you? Are you done yet? I've been sitting here for over an hour!" even though only five minutes had past. We would go to the food court, and she wouldn't be there. We called her back, and she said she was in the candle store, that she had been there all along, confusing us because we walked by there several times, and she wasn't there. We found her finally, after texting and calling her a few more times- I swear we got more exercise chasing her down because she was panicking, then we would have if we had just been able to do our normal walking routine. Oh, and we had done this before with her a couple of other times, so it wasn't like it was the first time. We never brought her again, as it was too stressful for us to keep going through this every time we wanted to exercise.

So, I just can't picture this scenario that he carried out, without him calling the police, a family member, or even talking to a stranger to get help, if she had died. I can't imagine the level of calm he sustained all the way to Graceland and back. I forget how long he was there- at least a two day trip, anyway- but that's an awful long time to not have a moment of panic and fright.

Like I said above in another post I made last night- it is possible that this really happened the way he said it did, but this one for sure would be one for the medical books as a rare, if almost impossible, scenario for a dementia patients.

Hearing your stories of personal experiences - for which my heart goes out to you - just makes it harder and harder for me to believe PS is as incapacitated as we’re all probably hoping he is, because if he isn’t, then it’s cold blooded murder.

I don’t buy to the whole ‘ oh she died at home before we made the trip but I promised her one final trip to Graceland so I took her dead body there’. That’s a great story for a buddy road movie but not real life. ‘And oh yeah, after I fulfilled her final wishes - which were to be cremated if we are to believe that - then instead of reporting her death and having her cremated, I went and bought contractor sized garbage bags and dumped her in a river that has no special meaning for her, and then made sure to find a good car wash to get the decomp smell out of my truck.’

Ugh. This one has me tied up in knots, if you can’t tell.

MOO


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[Limecat]

Steelslady, your post brought back so many memories of my father when he was getting dementia.

He passed at 86 but looking back, he had it for quiet awhile before, as they all do. Misplacing things, forgetting things, just little stuff at first. I'm trying to remember now what he was capable of at 70 and what he would have done in that type of situation.

I remember he was still drivIng. However he had gotten to a point where he couldn't make the long trips to their summer place, pulling the travel trailer. My brothers had to start doing that for him. He got easily flustered and felt out of his element where before it had been something he did all the time.

I know he sometimes had a disconnect with what was appropriate, what made sense, what was right and wrong.

They lived in the mountains and he couldn't get a fire to light. He thought it would be a great idea to use a plastic bottle, fill it with gasoline and throw it on the fire. Needless to say, that didn't end well. Flame followed the gasoline, bottle melted as he ran out the door, catching the carpeting on fire, then his pant legs, catching himself in fire. Mom had to put him out with an old blanket on the deck.

But it made sense to him. We had a helluva time trying to convince him never to do that again. We bought him starter logs. When we told him if he did something lie that again we would be moving them out, he accused us of trying to steal his money and get rid of him, and that if we moved him, he would poison himself cuz he was never leaving there. He was 80 by that time.

He would surprise me with the strength he still had sometimes. Other times he was a meek as a kitten. He'd putter around out in the garage but he did need more help for his projects.

He would forget places he worked for 30 years and how he got there. He never forgot us though, although he thought my daughter was his nurse at one point.

Towards the end, while in the hospital, he regaled the nurses it's stories of deer hunting trips he'd recently taken (it had been 10 years since he'd last gone), talking about the stuff he needed to remember to tell the guys at work when he got back there (he had been retired for 30 years. Talked about people we never heard of then got upset with us because we didn't know who he meant. He had sundowning and in general was moody and angry all the time. I also have to say that one night he told my mom to lock her bedroom door cuz he had voices telling him to kill her. Just remembered that one. Oh yeh, the memories.

Don't know now the point I was trying to make with this. But I hope something makes sense and ties into this case and what could be going in with PS and what happened to RS.

My heart hurts for what you went through with your Dad, I’m sorry for that.

But it made me remember that a family friend of ours who developed dementia in her eighties became extremely violent toward the end. She had to be restrained physically to keep from hurting staff.

This was the nicest, sweetest, tiniest little old lady and she became this fighting, biting, spitting, cursing hellcat. That made me sadder than anything.

This made me wonder, if PS does have dementia, could it have made him violent enough to harm Bobby? But wouldn’t his condition have to be really advanced before violent symptoms became evident? I admit I don’t know enough, but our friend didn’t become violent until her disease had greatly progressed and she’d already been hospitalized for some time.

And I would imagine family would notice violent episodes long before he got to the point of flat out murder???

Every question makes more questions.

MOO


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