FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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This is also the time when divorce became much more acceptable and as families split apart children had schedules and lives that could rival a corporate schedule shuttled between families, daycare, school, etc. Then there were the "latch key" kids in the 80's.

I think the sociological aspect of children's lives is really different in "this modern world". For instance, in the 60's there was no McDonald's, three channels on the TV if you were lucky, cartoon time Saturday morning (that was it), no meds (many weren't developed until decades later), before big Agra when food had better nutritional value, and a time of much more permanent roots, real estate was for living, not flipping, when renting was affordable, when jobs lasted a lifetime, before Malls, before shopping on Sunday, way before technology. -A time when kids walked everywhere, biked, played street games, little league, explored the woods, gathered at public swimming holes, the beach, rivers, lakes, etc., etc. Read books. And worshiped (some very reluctantly), Sunday dinner with extended families. It was a simpler time. Lifelong friendships were formed. Because life was simpler.

While I know many families seek to provide that consistency, lifestyles are often contrary, and I have wondered if the use of social media is a born out of a longing for "the neighborhood".

We are seeing such a rise in certain conditions, childhood diabetes, autism, ADHD, and kids are prescribed drugs. It's not that this is new or didn't exist before; schizophrenia still manafests in the late teens early twenties, but I wonder about the effect of an inert lifestyle on children.

A child's energy could power the space shuttle... Where does it go when Phys Ed and music programs are cut, when there's no neighborhood to run around in, when their lives are so proscribed? As they are shuffled around is their connection, their desire for the neighborhood found in their little glowing devices?

A few years ago I remember this 2014 article out of New Zealand about a principle who believes a playground with no rules was a better way. The premise being, let kids fall down and figure out. It's a lot like my growing up.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/story/no-rules-school

And what is happening to the disenfranchised ones? We know gangs are a substitute family. And so are these radical groups and connections online. They fill the gap of what's missing, a sense of belonging? What are the commonalities of disenfranchisement? This brings me to the question of what is missing in this demographic of shooters?

We can look at the mental and sociological aspects but truth is if a radical "gang", or thinking, is so readily accessible online, if hate is the new love, if the ways and means to commit an atrocity is readily available, and the gang rewards it as heroism, I am not sure there is a category in the diagnostic manual for this?

Something like autism is often diagnosed when a child is quite young....well before school, using the internet, etc. So the argument that those things contribute to it makes no sense to me.
 
This isn't going to bode well for FBI if they indeed blew off three credible tips.

Maybe I am apathetic, but isn't it ironic that only a matter of hours after that announcement another on about what smarty pants they are with the 13 Russian National indictments.

JMO
 
iirc, I think he was employed somewhere, but I'm not sure it paid him enough to afford a weapon, ammo, accessories, etc.

I've seen the weapon advertised for as little as $400. I'm with you — where did he get the money? Maybe a credit card?

Who gave him the money?!
 
Here's a "primer" on how the shooter evaded all the security at the high school. It seems he studied the weakest points. Hopefully, like you suggested, this will be a case study for improvement measures. :(

Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...l-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them.

He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. And the school resource officer, who is supposed to help protect students, may not have been on school grounds at the time.

Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended.

That’s the time school officials usually open the gates around campus so students and staff parked in various parking lots, as well as school buses and parents picking up their kids, can get out easily, said Jerry Graziose, the district’s former director of school safety.

“During the day, those areas locked. But when you’re getting ready for kids to leave, all the gates in the different areas have to be unlocked, and it takes a few minutes for the person doing that,” Graziose said.

I’m not sure if this is correct. I don’t think the alarm was pulled until he was inside. There was a student interviewed who came into contact with the shooter while he was loading the gun and he said Nikolas told him to get out because things were going to get messy and that the alarms were not going off at that time.
 
I’m not sure if this is correct. I don’t think the alarm was pulled until he was inside. There was a student interviewed who came into contact with the shooter while he was loading the gun and he said Nikolas told him to get out because things were going to get messy and that the alarms were not going off at that time.

In addition to this, I just watched a teacher interviewed on CNN and she stated that she peeked her head out of the door on the building she was in and then locked it behind her as a precaution, so it doesn’t seem the actual buildings were locked. Maybe they figured it wasn’t needed since it was gated?
 
I think the passion, talent and devotion of public school teachers is too often grossly minimized.

rbbm — That's a wildly overbroad statement about a profession of which a temporary employee typically would not know much about; would not develop or implement curricula for; would not participate in the day-to-day, long-term operations; and typically would not know much about the individuals who are hired full-time to perform these jobs. IMO

In my area, Central Fl., most parents that really care about their children's education, if they can afford it, send their
children to private schools. And since I've subbed in the public schools, I understand this. the middle and high schools
are notoriously packed with teachers who don't really care, just putting in their time til they retire.
Same with many
administrators. It's just a job. And then add in putting your kids in the same room with messed up, drugged, neglected
kids some of whom are even selling drugs in public schools and you can understand the problem. Public middle and
high schools are like a jungle around here.
 
Something like autism is often diagnosed when a child is quite young....well before school, using the internet, etc.

That may be the case in the US but it's not in the UK. Here the condition is not necessarily even suspected until a child is in nursery, then typically there's a referral to the assessment service followed by a waiting list of up to a year, then a year or two of monitoring and observation against developmental milestones before a diagnosis becomes official. Basically it takes time for specialists to determine that a child's issues do not fall within the spectrum of normal, so a diagnosis at age 6 or 7 is not at all uncommon. Girls tend to be diagnosed, if at all, much later because they tend to be better at masking autistic traits than boys are.
 
Link? I'd like to get it clarified in the thread if this local source is indeed incorrect.

Thank you. :eek:

I’m not sure if this is correct. I don’t think the alarm was pulled until he was inside. There was a student interviewed who came into contact with the shooter while he was loading the gun and he said Nikolas told him to get out because things were going to get messy and that the alarms were not going off at that time.
 
I’m not sure if this is correct. I don’t think the alarm was pulled until he was inside. There was a student interviewed who came into contact with the shooter while he was loading the gun and he said Nikolas told him to get out because things were going to get messy and that the alarms were not going off at that time.

Here’s a timeline, see full article for expanded timeline with tweets .

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/t...-high-school-shooting/8k6E9rQevLWBlkf0Ix4JsK/

The times were gathered from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office timeline provided Thursday, Palm Beach Post coverage or through Twitter.

2:19 p.m.: Suspect Nikolas Cruz is dropped off at Douglas High by an Uber. He entered the east stairwell and pulled his rifle out of its case, sheriff’s deputies say.

2:21 p.m.: Cruz begins shooting into classrooms.

Around 2:30 p.m.: The fire alarm is pulled, presumably by Cruz.

2:32 p.m.: First tweet regarding a shooter “at my school.”

2:34 p.m.: Coral Springs PD tells people to avoid the Douglas High School area due to an active police scene.

2:44 p.m.: First known media report of a shooting and a lockdown at Douglas.

2:55 p.m.: Reports of at least five injuries after shooting.
In another report soon after, the number quickly jumps to 20 hurt.


3:01 p.m.: Deputies say Cruz went to McDonald’s and sat down.

3:10 p.m.: Another student tweets: Still locked in.

3:24 p.m.: Police issue a “be on the lookout” alert for a person who left the shooting scene.

3:36 p.m.: First reports of a death at Douglas.


3:41 p.m.: Broward deputies detain Cruz in Coral Springs.


3:45 p.m.: Gov. Scott says he has spoken with Trump regarding Douglas High.

3:50 p.m.: Trump extends condolences, then shortly thereafter says he has discussed the situation with Scott and law enforcement.

4:11 p.m.: The Broward Sheriff’s Office reports the shooter is in custody.

4:34 p.m.: Reports of seven fatalities at Douglas.

4:48 p.m.: The gunman, identified as Nikolas Cruz, is taken to a hospital.

5:39 p.m.: Broward’s schools superintendent shares his thoughts.

6:31 p.m.: Broward Sheriff Scott Israel says 17 people are dead.



 
So I understand there's no gun control debate going on here, and I get why. But I don't understand all these posts about day care centers? And women not staying home and taking care of their babies? It's OK to debate getting in a time capsule back to 1952. All righty then.
 
So I understand there's no gun control debate going on here, and I get why. But I don't understand all these posts about day care centers? And women not staying home and taking care of their babies? It's OK to debate getting in a time capsule back to 1952. All righty then.

Iirc the word parent was used. I’m a stay at home mom who homeschools our kids and there are several fathers in my local community who stay home and teach their kids. The issue is a complete disconnect even amongst family members. Public school kids in my area usually get on the bus about 6:30-7am, breakfast at school, school till 2 or 3 depending on grade level, have after school care or sports/extracurriculars until 6 or 7 and when mine were in public school were expected to do at least one to two hours of homework and that was in elementary school. Doesn’t leave much family time.


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You really think it would have no positive impact? Teachers go on strike and it brings on a fix. Why can't students and parents?
And, FYI, districts do NOT get paid when children don't attend. That's why there's strict attendance policies.

Teachers are different because they are the head of the class and there is a demand for a teacher. There is no demand for a student. How many teachers do you hear asking for more students? I suppose different states do things differently, here your enrollment number are done at the start of the year and you get your money per student enrolled. Not monthly based on attendance. If this is the case in your state, then yes a student strike would definitely work I think.
 
So I understand there's no gun control debate going on here, and I get why. But I don't understand all these posts about day care centers? And women not staying home and taking care of their babies? It's OK to debate getting in a time capsule back to 1952. All righty then.

It does not have to be a woman, it needs to be a parent, male or female. Things were better in 1952
 
2:24 p.m. Cruz took the east stairwell to the building's third floor.
2:27 p.m. When he reached the third floor, he dropped the rifle and backpack inside the stairwell and ran back downstairs.
2:28 p.m. Cruz left the school building and ran west toward nearby tennis courts and then headed south.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nikolas-cruz-timeline-20180215-story.html

If “he” pulled the alarm could have been for cover, or someone else did after hearing shoots.


Here’s a timeline, see full article for expanded timeline with tweets .

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/t...-high-school-shooting/8k6E9rQevLWBlkf0Ix4JsK/

The times were gathered from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office timeline provided Thursday, Palm Beach Post coverage or through Twitter.

2:19 p.m.: Suspect Nikolas Cruz is dropped off at Douglas High by an Uber. He entered the east stairwell and pulled his rifle out of its case, sheriff’s deputies say.

2:21 p.m.: Cruz begins shooting into classrooms.

Around 2:30 p.m.: The fire alarm is pulled, presumably by Cruz.

2:32 p.m.: First tweet regarding a shooter “at my school.”

2:34 p.m.: Coral Springs PD tells people to avoid the Douglas High School area due to an active police scene.

2:44 p.m.: First known media report of a shooting and a lockdown at Douglas.

2:55 p.m.: Reports of at least five injuries after shooting.
In another report soon after, the number quickly jumps to 20 hurt.


3:01 p.m.: Deputies say Cruz went to McDonald’s and sat down.

3:10 p.m.: Another student tweets: Still locked in.

3:24 p.m.: Police issue a “be on the lookout” alert for a person who left the shooting scene.

3:36 p.m.: First reports of a death at Douglas.


3:41 p.m.: Broward deputies detain Cruz in Coral Springs.


3:45 p.m.: Gov. Scott says he has spoken with Trump regarding Douglas High.

3:50 p.m.: Trump extends condolences, then shortly thereafter says he has discussed the situation with Scott and law enforcement.

4:11 p.m.: The Broward Sheriff’s Office reports the shooter is in custody.

4:34 p.m.: Reports of seven fatalities at Douglas.

4:48 p.m.: The gunman, identified as Nikolas Cruz, is taken to a hospital.

5:39 p.m.: Broward’s schools superintendent shares his thoughts.

6:31 p.m.: Broward Sheriff Scott Israel says 17 people are dead.



 
Here’s a timeline, see full article for expanded timeline with tweets .

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/t...-high-school-shooting/8k6E9rQevLWBlkf0Ix4JsK/

The times were gathered from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office timeline provided Thursday, Palm Beach Post coverage or through Twitter.

2:19 p.m.: Suspect Nikolas Cruz is dropped off at Douglas High by an Uber. He entered the east stairwell and pulled his rifle out of its case, sheriff’s deputies say.

2:21 p.m.: Cruz begins shooting into classrooms.

Around 2:30 p.m.: The fire alarm is pulled, presumably by Cruz.

2:32 p.m.: First tweet regarding a shooter “at my school.”

2:34 p.m.: Coral Springs PD tells people to avoid the Douglas High School area due to an active police scene.

2:44 p.m.: First known media report of a shooting and a lockdown at Douglas.

2:55 p.m.: Reports of at least five injuries after shooting.
In another report soon after, the number quickly jumps to 20 hurt.


3:01 p.m.: Deputies say Cruz went to McDonald’s and sat down.

3:10 p.m.: Another student tweets: Still locked in.

3:24 p.m.: Police issue a “be on the lookout” alert for a person who left the shooting scene.

3:36 p.m.: First reports of a death at Douglas.


3:41 p.m.: Broward deputies detain Cruz in Coral Springs.


3:45 p.m.: Gov. Scott says he has spoken with Trump regarding Douglas High.

3:50 p.m.: Trump extends condolences, then shortly thereafter says he has discussed the situation with Scott and law enforcement.

4:11 p.m.: The Broward Sheriff’s Office reports the shooter is in custody.

4:34 p.m.: Reports of seven fatalities at Douglas.

4:48 p.m.: The gunman, identified as Nikolas Cruz, is taken to a hospital.

5:39 p.m.: Broward’s schools superintendent shares his thoughts.

6:31 p.m.: Broward Sheriff Scott Israel says 17 people are dead.




The time line I would love to see is the one that details all the LE contacts, school contacts, FBI reports, and police visits to the home. That would be info that really would make people see the how bad the system failed us.
 
Something like autism is often diagnosed when a child is quite young....well before school, using the internet, etc. So the argument that those things contribute to it makes no sense to me.
Thank you. Also the rise in numbers is influenced by the fact that things like autism are identified and recognized and have names. And there have been gains made in destigmatizing some diagnoses. There are many factors. Violence didn't just begin to occur with the advent of video games and the internet. We also have made the world smaller in the sense that we hear about stories now that in the past may have been more isolated to local newspapers etc.

I'm not saying video games haven't had an impact, but I personally can type 90 words per minute BECAUSE of an early video game, which also helped me develop some abstract thinking skills which I'd been lacking. I like to view them as a tool and see the positive aspects instead of blaming.
 
It does not have to be a woman, it needs to be a parent, male or female. Things were better in 1952
Ugh. Really? Says who? Using what exactly as a measure? And please provide proof of correlation and causation, not just anecdotal "back in my day" kind of justification?
 
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