Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[flute4peace]

MM I have a couple of questions from your most recent post, for my own curiosity:

1. Did you work with Mrs. Carnahan before or after the 3MW, his other crimes etc? I can't imagine learning/suspecting your spouse was a killer. I have a friend who knew Mrs. Rader (BTK) quite well and it was beyond horrific.

2. The suspects you speak of 1 in prison & the other a deviant on the street - do these directly correlate with the tomb raiders you mentioned upthread?

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[Missouri Mule]

MM I have a couple of questions from your most recent post, for my own curiosity:

1. Did you work with Mrs. Carnahan before or after the 3MW, his other crimes etc? I can't imagine learning/suspecting your spouse was a killer. I have a friend who knew Mrs. Rader (BTK) quite well and it was beyond horrific.

2. The suspects you speak of 1 in prison & the other a deviant on the street - do these directly correlate with the tomb raiders you mentioned upthread?

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I first knew her as far back as 1977. I didn’t work her on a regular basis but she was in our office prior to the women going missing. She was quite friendly toward me and others.

I saw him in our office perhaps 50 times in the years leading up to the late 1980s or early 1990s. He came to our office to check on his alibi witness, her daughter. Everyone on the Ozarks knew he had murdered Jackie Johns but he and his family had deep pockets. To be perfectly frank she was his trophy wife. She had movie star looks and he was nothing special especially with his sordid history. But he opened his pocket for her.

I believe he went to China at some point possibly at or near the time the women went missing. I just don’t remember too much about the exact times.

I believe he finally divorced him in 1993. You could check Missouri Case Net to get further details.

On the others I would only be speculating. I have had many contacts with Clay and Garrison one time when he called my home. I’ve not talked to the others.

I am neither a fan of the vandals or the GJ3. Cox is interesting but no one seems to like him as a suspect. Garrison supposedly has an ironclad alibi. One is/was in prison and the other out west. Not much is said about him.

Truthfully I would just be guessing. I’m out of suspects but do believe it could have been a single lone stalker. Or bad cops who were peddling confiscated drugs.

 

[flute4peace]

Thanks for your information, MM.
*****
I would love to see a list of the potential suspects and why they are POIs, details etc. Does that exist anywhere?

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[Ibiz]

All right.

Jackie John from China??? Let's get these case files boxed up, and taken to the basement.

You guys are driving me BANANNAS!!

 

[chestnut&bypass]

True. They were killed at a second location down near (according to my best evidence and sources) near Bull Shoals and remains probably scattered near Mark Twain State Forest.

I don't think I've seen this theory before. Mule, could you elaborate any further? What's the connection to Bull Shoals? Mark Twain National Forest is an enormous area....do you have info narrowing that down to a particular area?

 

[barefootpoet]

I met him one time in the state office elevator and was introduced to him by his then wife. Everyone in the area knew what he had done but there wasn't the evidence to put him away.

I trust you declined to shake Carnahan's hand, not looked him in the eye, and quickly excused yourself from the elevator.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I trust you declined to shake Carnahan's hand, not looked him in the eye, and quickly excused yourself from the elevator.

I would say that is an accurate description of what happened. I don't know how he had the gall to show his face.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Its a theory advanced by a source with close connections to LE. He also knows who the perp is and describes him as a sexual deviant. He has seen him on his job.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Jackie Johns was the murder victim in 1986. When Carnahan returned from China the MSHP matched his DNA with her DNA. He was convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

 

[chestnut&bypass]

Its a theory advanced by a source with close connections to LE. He also knows who the perp is and describes him as a sexual deviant. He has seen him on his job.

Which perp? The abductor or the killer?

 

[flute4peace]

Its a theory advanced by a source with close connections to LE. He also knows who the perp is and describes him as a sexual deviant. He has seen him on his job.

Is this one of the grave robbers? Or was there someone else that Suzie had info on?

I'm getting them all mixed up in my mind, sorry!

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[Missouri Mule]

The abductor.

He said the killer or killers could have been anyone and that he belived the bodies were dumped for wild animals would carry off the remains. He said that unless a hunter stumbles across the remains they are unlikely to ever be found.

He was adamant about the identity of the perp. Evidently it has long been known.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I doubt it. Was said to be “not a talked about person.”

 

[flute4peace]

So, one guy abducted and another guy killed them?

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[Missouri Mule]

It is not known how many murdered and disposed of the bodies. Probably more than one. In fact there is no expectation the bodies will be recovered. However according to my source the perp is alive and is on the street. It was stressed the perp was known. Just don't have the evidence to convict. Best info I feel confident with.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I'd like to throw something out for general discussion. On another site a scenario where a maladjusted unknown stalker may have taken the women seemed to offer a way out of the morass of contradictions and unexplained problems that we have debated for the past 12 years on this site.

One of the major problems with someone well known and trusted by the women has a major hole that can't be otherwise explained. For a known friend or acquaintance to have left the purses presents a problem in that if there are any connections to the perp it would likely be in there. That would have required that the purses be gone through thoroughly before leaving them at the house. Having searched through my spouses purse (with her permission of course) on several occasions I have never been able to find anything I have been looking for. I give it to her and she knows exactly where to look.

With an unknown stalker, there would not be anything to connect the women to him.

Thoughts?

 

[Ozoner]

I'd like to throw something out for general discussion. On another site a scenario where a maladjusted unknown stalker may have taken the women seemed to offer a way out of the morass of contradictions and unexplained problems that we have debated for the past 12 years on this site.

One of the major problems with someone well known and trusted by the women has a major hole that can't be otherwise explained. For a known friend or acquaintance to have left the purses presents a problem in that if there are any connections to the perp it would likely be in there. That would have required that the purses be gone through thoroughly before leaving them at the house. Having searched through my spouses purse (with her permission of course) on several occasions I have never been able to find anything I have been looking for. I give it to her and she knows exactly where to look.

With an unknown stalker, there would not be anything to connect the women to him.

Thoughts?

I still bieve that the women were abducted by one of the grave robbers. He wasn't concerned about being connected to the women because his plan hinged on their not being found; he knew that if they were never found, then he would never be charged.

 

[Txteacher1]

I'd like to throw something out for general discussion. On another site a scenario where a maladjusted unknown stalker may have taken the women seemed to offer a way out of the morass of contradictions and unexplained problems that we have debated for the past 12 years on this site.

One of the major problems with someone well known and trusted by the women has a major hole that can't be otherwise explained. For a known friend or acquaintance to have left the purses presents a problem in that if there are any connections to the perp it would likely be in there. That would have required that the purses be gone through thoroughly before leaving them at the house. Having searched through my spouses purse (with her permission of course) on several occasions I have never been able to find anything I have been looking for. I give it to her and she knows exactly where to look.

With an unknown stalker, there would not be anything to connect the women to him.

Thoughts?

I've often wondered that. Did someone come in on the mom, before the girls got there, having other plans and those plans changed when two more people show up unexpectedly and forced him to remove them to another location so they were either more isolated and controllable or to control the amount of evidence left at the original scene?
This case has had me scratching my head for years.

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[chestnut&bypass]

For a known friend or acquaintance to have left the purses presents a problem in that if there are any connections to the perp it would likely be in there. That would have required that the purses be gone through thoroughly before leaving them at the house. Having searched through my spouses purse (with her permission of course) on several occasions I have never been able to find anything I have been looking for. I give it to her and she knows exactly where to look.

My wife and I had two sets of keys to a car we used to own. Her set of keys got lost shortly before we sold this particular car. I foolishly suggested they were in her purse, she insisted she would know if they were in her purse. I actually dug around in there, in her presence, and didn't find those keys. Fast forward about six months or so and she's changing purses. You wouldn't believe me if I told you those damn keys were in there....but on my honor, that's exactly where they were. My wife is a "one purse" kind of girl, and it's always a small to medium purse, and in my opinion, there's not a lot in it and it's fairly neat and tidy. I can say without fear of contradiction, a wife's purse can be like a kitchen junk drawer....never know what might turn up in there!

 

[scadagirl28]

I keep wondering if * they* got their purses so a car could be moved and their vehicle put in the carport?