CA - Joshua Tree parents arrested for keeping kids in a box for 4 years, Mar 2018 *Charges Dropped*

[Meryl12]

It looks as though all 5 of them slept in the only large bed, that was in the box. Inside of the trailer had been stripped out, (for some unknown reason).
It definitely looks like hoarding was a possibility. How pitiful.
I am still hoping someone thought to send a rescue center out for the poor cats, (now the children and the adults have been attended to).

OT. I have read lots of articles on the Essenes peoples of Qumrun (I hope I have spelt that correctly). It is tragic that for all their attention to cleanliness, that it was their dedication to cleanliness that caused their demise. It would have been terrible for them, their average age of death was only 35 years old.

 

[Lilibet]

This local news agency posted pictures of the interior of both the box and trailer. Looks like hoarding could be a possibility. 28 pics at link:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1791026991207031&id=1504524099857323

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Yes, it certainly does look like hoarding. This is not a simple case of poverty and needing services. This is a mental health issue that perhaps has only shown up in the past few years. My mother didn’t start hoarding until she was in her 70’s, probably around the same age as Mr. Panico. It is not easily “cured” as the article quoted and linked below points out, so I suspect any place this family lives will end up the same without proper intervention. The arrest is actually a good start for providing motivation to clean up.

Hoarders are more likely to be depressed, anxious or have social phobias than to have obsessive-compulsive disorder.
And the problem worsens with age.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...919186/-big-clean-out-is-no-cure-for-hoarding

 

[human]

Being poor has nothing to do with this. Poor people can actually make a place be clean and organized, That place is a garbage dump.

I cannot believe how people think that poor people have no sense of order. This is some kind of disturbed behavior,

They have a car? When they went i to town, they could stick their trash in a garbage can at the gas station,

If the parenrs want to live that way, OK. But to subject their children to that. Wow.

Most people want better for their kids. They have hopes and dreams for them and try to provide for them. Not have them live in a trash heap.

 

[libraryg]

I hope there will be many more charges following, X3. The poor children. I hope this type of child (and animal) abuse results in LONG sentences.
I hope they also took the 30 or 40 poor wretched cats to an animal shelter, or at least called an animal shelter to come and rescue them.

I really hope these cats went to a no-kill shelter......the alternative is brutal.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

OT. I have read lots of articles on the Essenes peoples of Qumrun (I hope I have spelt that correctly). It is tragic that for all their attention to cleanliness, that it was their dedication to cleanliness that caused their demise. It would have been terrible for them, their average age of death was only 35 years old.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, as we know.

I suppose it depends on how the average age at death was calculated. Did it exclude children who died before the age of 5, since so many did?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Oooof. Agreed, Hoosgirl. Thanks for the link.

 

[ksprincess]

This case sort of reminds me of the family from the Blessed Little Homestead blog if anyone else followed that. They are a family with a bunch of kids that love off the grid, they basically were living in a wall less shack with no sewage system or running water and had trash all over their property. Their children were placed in foster care and told they had to make improvements on their property before they could have their kids back. They eventually with the help of lots of people who felt sorry for them did get their property cleaned up and their shack improved enough to get their kids back but there was all sorts of drama about the whole thing.

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[Lilibet]

This case sort of reminds me of the family from the Blessed Little Homestead blog if anyone else followed that. They are a family with a bunch of kids that love off the grid, they basically were living in a wall less shack with no sewage system or running water and had trash all over their property. Their children were placed in foster care and told they had to make improvements on their property before they could have their kids back. They eventually with the help of lots of people who felt sorry for them did get their property cleaned up and their shack improved enough to get their kids back but there was all sorts of drama about the whole thing.

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I hadn’t followed the BLH case, but after you posted I read up on it. The drama continues even now. I agree that it is similar. It appears that the BLH supporters believed that homeschooling and living off the grid were being attacked by the government, when in fact, it was the completely unsanitary, unsafe and inappropriate living conditions for the children that were the issue. I see similar attitudes expressed on SM about this current case. Some people resent any government interference. But they attack the government whenever abused and neglected children fall through the cracks and die. :dunno:
JMO

 

[Meryl12]

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, as we know.

I suppose it depends on how the average age at death was calculated. Did it exclude children who died before the age of 5, since so many did?

OT again, I am not trying to hijack this thread.
The Essenes peoples of Qumrun were basically Monks. They were accepted at age approx 20, they had to be in perfect health. This is presumed by the fact that the earliest deaths were in their 20s, very few were older than 35 years. They all had a healthy childhood, until they all started dropping dead at age 20 to 35 years old.

Back to this thread again, I am pleased these children were rescued. It would give these 'future adults' a very distorted view on how to be a responsible adult. Also how to treat a future spouse etc. Clearly there are some serious mental health issues here, and the children do not need to have their lives damaged because of it.

 

[ksprincess]

I hadn’t followed the BLH case, but after you posted I read up on it. The drama continues even now. I agree that it is similar. It appears that the BLH supporters believed that homeschooling and living off the grid were being attacked by the government, when in fact, it was the completely unsanitary, unsafe and inappropriate living conditions for the children that were the issue. I see similar attitudes expressed on SM about this current case. Some people resent any government interference. But they attack the government whenever abused and neglected children fall through the cracks and die. :dunno:
JMO

You gave the perfect summary of the drama related to that. I had followed it at the time and then after I mentioned it here yesterday I looked at their facebook page and see that the drama does continue.

And yes I see this where people don't want government involvement but as soon as something happens they are outraged that the government didn't do anything. CPS has to err on the side of caution and remove children from any home they believe to be unsafe while they investigate the situation. I think this family was not purposefully abusing their children like it initially seemed but they obviously need help to create a safer home environment for their kids.

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[CHICANA]

They survived there for four years, I don't see there was any imminent danger so what are the grounds for removing them and charging the parents ?

 

[flourish]

They survived there for four years, I don't see there was any imminent danger so what are the grounds for removing them and charging the parents ?

:thud:

I don't think length of prior survival impacts neglect/abuse in that sense...just because someone survived something doesn't make that something okay! I continue to be incredulous as to why this is considered acceptable?!?! As discussed thoroughly on this thread, poor does not have to equal unsafe/neglectful/dirty. There is a minimum standard of living for children in this country, and this family was initially found not to be providing that at even a minimal level. Perhaps the charges won't stick, and maybe they'll be reunited, hopefully with some social service assistance, but a plywood box is not considered adequate shelter for children in the United States in 2018.

The victims were found to have an inadequate amount of food and were living in an unsuitable and unsafe environment due to the conditions located on the property.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-lived-filthy-desert-shack.html#ixzz58zrrGTGG

Inadequate food. That's just one thing, but pretty major for survival!

As mentioned upthread, when child protection/LE fails to protect a child, society gets up in arms, but then when they do save them, such as in this case, people don't understand. Living in a tiny shelter that doesn't have proper walls, in an area which can reach temperatures up to 120 is not appropriate for children! They can't make that choice; adults, fine, whatever, but children, no!

 

[Lilibet]

They survived there for four years, I don't see there was any imminent danger so what are the grounds for removing them and charging the parents ?

:facepalm: Seriously??!!

This is 2018 United States. Thankfully, there are standards for the environment children live in that are well above the “survival” and “no imminent danger” level of 100+ years ago and other countries currently. Gitana (attorney) posted the laws earlier on the thread.

Echoing flourish and adding on...LE has to make a judgement call about “imminent danger” and try to prevent something worse than the unsafe conditions that currently exist. How long is LE supposed to wait to see if the kids continue to “survive?” They don’t have the luxury of a wait-and-see attitude in this situation, especially when it is clear from his comment in court that the father doesn’t seem to understand what is wrong. The “grounds for removing them and charging the parents” are the protection of children!! Don’t we expect more from parents than “survival” of their kids? The 13 Turpin kids in Perris “survived” for years until rescued. How nice for them.
JMO

 

[Oblio]

Wait, were the parents living in the box, too?

I'm more apt to sympathy if this was the way the parents lived, as well.

Neglect, yes. Intentional torture, perhaps not. I'm thinking some cognitive delays or untreated mental health issues on the part of the parents. Not excusing or justifying, just saying.

 

[x_files]

When people cannot handle their own affairs and provide for their children, the govt gets to step in.

Living in a garbage dump is horrifying when I see it in other countries, To say it is a lifestyle choice is absurd. It may be their lifestyle choice, but fortunately we have laws to intervene in lifestyle choice. For example, some people have the lifestyle choice of having scores of cats and dogs that they cannot take care of.

The public,becomes outraged about animals living in filth.This “home”for the children is not suitable for human habitation. It is not suitable for cat habitation.

I weep that the children have to grow up like this.

I really cannot believe that one person on here would live in that. Yet because they are poor, it is ok?

It's depressing. Since, they owned the property couldn't they apply for benefits or food stamps? Anything to help their children?

 

[Lilibet]

Wait, were the parents living in the box, too?

I'm more apt to sympathy if this was the way the parents lived, as well.

Neglect, yes. Intentional torture, perhaps not. I'm thinking some cognitive delays or untreated mental health issues on the part of the parents. Not excusing or justifying, just saying.

Yes, it appears that the parents lived in the box also. No one is alleging torture at all. This is not like the Turpin children. Mental health issues have been discussed as a possibility earlier on the thread. It is hoped by most of us that if help is accepted and improvements are made the charges will be dropped or reduced and the children returned to their parents.

It's depressing. Since, they owned the property couldn't they apply for benefits or food stamps? Anything to help their children?

Yes, they could have applied for benefits to help their kids. Early in the thread I posted links to many San Bernardino County services for which they probably were eligible. We don’t know if they were receiving help or refused to apply. Perhaps pride, mental health issues, anti-government beliefs or fear of arrest played a role, but asking for help would perhaps have prevented arrest. In any case, the children deserved better even if the parents didn’t want help.
JMO

 

[Hraefn]

I think this is the property at issue. If you zoom out you can see there are neighbors living in what appears to be very normal conditions. This plot looks like a junkyard. While the parents may not have been malicious, they certainly should've realized the unhealthiness of the living conditions and the dangers of poor nutrition.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/7...d847263eaaa82!8m2!3d34.1239722!4d-116.2471329

 

[gitana1]

I think this is the property at issue. If you zoom out you can see there are neighbors living in what appears to be very normal conditions. This plot looks like a junkyard. While the parents may not have been malicious, they certainly should've realized the unhealthiness of the living conditions and the dangers of poor nutrition.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/7...d847263eaaa82!8m2!3d34.1239722!4d-116.2471329

Yeah these people are hoarders. This, IMO, became a
criminally dangerous situation for these kids. Cats everywhere. Trash everywhere. Cat feces everywhere. HUMAN feces everywhere. So disgusting.

I think there's a level of stubborn dysfunction there that put the kids at risk.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Accusations of child abuse separated this California family. Their 'nightmare' is over as charges are dropped

Charges have been dropped against Mona Kirk and Daniel Panico, the parents who were accused of child abuse and neglect after they were found living in squalor with their three children. Upon their discovery by officials, the parents were arrested and separated for more than two months from their kids.

Now that the fight is over, the family will resume their lives in a new home purchased with donations from the community.

 

[MsFacetious]

They still don't think there was anything wrong with the way they were living. I'm a little surprised they aren't back in the news a year later. Hopefully that's a good sign.