Questions you'd like answers to...

[David Rogers]

What was the reason they didn’t go to the Furnies? Or did they go. Someone really needs to go talk to the kids.

 

[Cottonstar]

I can’t find a thread about this thing for which I would like to have answers. BR said JBR helped deliver Christmas gifts to friends en route home from the Whites’ dinner party. PR claimed she was fast asleep in the car and remained so while she carried her upstairs and put her to bed.

Question: Have the families to whom the gifts were deilvered ever said anything about seeing JBR awake and participating in the gift-giving?

887-

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for a while maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they ALL seemed perfectly normal. They were ALL the same- bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an INTACT family."

Steve Thomas quoting BR in ITRMI-

“He said that his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenét walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy.”



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[ItzShea]

Is the only Susan, Susan Stine?

 

[Cottonstar]

April 30th 1997, John Ramsey interview.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

I'm just curious. Who's Suzanne?

People in the house at the time: Linda Arndt, John, Patsy, Fleet White, Priscilla White, John Fernie, Barbara Fernie, Father Rol, Mary Lou Jedamus and Grace Morlock.

There was an early babysitter named Suzanne.


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[icedtea4me]

April 30th 1997, John Ramsey interview.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: Can, could you tell me step-by-step when you found her, tell me how you picked her up and tell me (inaudible).

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor and I heard Suzanne, she said she’s dead.

I'm just curious. Who's Suzanne?

People in the house at the time: Linda Arndt, John, Patsy, Fleet White, Priscilla White, John Fernie, Barbara Fernie, Father Rol, Mary Lou Jedamus and Grace Morlock.

The Suzanne could be a transcription error.

 

[887sMtreme]

887-
Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for a while maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they ALL seemed perfectly normal. They were ALL the same- bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an INTACT FAMILY

THANK YOU! I remember that from years ago but couldn’t remember enough key words to hunt for it. As I recall another family’s story was somewhat different, no? Given this info, I might be able to find it. Looks like PR was lyIng about taking a sleeping JBR straight upstairs to bed, which is consistent with the pineapple evidence and a few other things. Again, thanks.

 

[BoldBear]

One of those small details that's been bugging me. Some of the sources led me to believe that Officer French didn't search the basement until another officer was on the property. But why wouldn't he do a quick search of the home? The civilians arrived at the home very close to when Sergeant Paul Richenbach arrived.

1) Officer French
2) John Fernie
3) Paul Richenbach and Fleet & Priscilla White (around the same time).

"He reported that he had briefly checked the garage and back doors of the residence not long after his arrival and had gone to the basement sometime before the arrival of civilians at the home."

Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (Kindle Locations 534-536). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.

 

[Cottonstar]

One of those small details that's been bugging me. Some of the sources led me to believe that Officer French didn't search the basement until another officer was on the property. But why wouldn't he do a quick search of the home? The civilians arrived at the home very close to when Sergeant Paul Richenbach arrived.

1) Officer French
2) John Fernie
3) Paul Richenbach and Fleet & Priscilla White (around the same time).

"He reported that he had briefly checked the garage and back doors of the residence not long after his arrival and had gone to the basement sometime before the arrival of civilians at the home."

Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (Kindle Locations 534-536). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.

He did perform a quick search of the home. Reichenbach was the first person to search the basement.


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[AndHence]

The bombshell that doesn't receive much attention is how Burke directly contradicts John and Patsy on a key part of their version of events. I.e, John didn't carry JonBenet up to bed when they arrived home; Burke said JonBenet walked up the spiral staircase just behind Patsy upon returning from the party.

A big part of the Ramseys story is about narrowing the timeline. They state they were all in bed within an hour of returning from the party and that JonBenet was carried up to bed directly from the car. The story is told this way so that the family can essentially say they slept through whatever happened. Burke contradicting this version of events is much bigger than it appears.

 

[Cottonstar]

The bombshell that doesn't receive much attention is how Burke directly contradicts John and Patsy on a key part of their version of events. I.e, John didn't carry JonBenet up to bed when they arrived home; Burke said JonBenet walked up the spiral staircase just behind Patsy upon returning from the party.

A big part of the Ramseys story is about narrowing the timeline. They state they were all in bed within an hour of returning from the party and that JonBenet was carried up to bed directly from the car. The story is told this way so that the family can essentially say they slept through whatever happened. Burke contradicting this version of events is much bigger than it appears.

And that was only the beginning...


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[Cottonstar]

The bombshell that doesn't receive much attention is how Burke directly contradicts John and Patsy on a key part of their version of events. I.e, John didn't carry JonBenet up to bed when they arrived home; Burke said JonBenet walked up the spiral staircase just behind Patsy upon returning from the party.

A big part of the Ramseys story is about narrowing the timeline. They state they were all in bed within an hour of returning from the party and that JonBenet was carried up to bed directly from the car. The story is told this way so that the family can essentially say they slept through whatever happened. Burke contradicting this version of events is much bigger than it appears.

Not to mention the fact that JR told both French and Arndt that he read to JB and BR before they went to bed that night. Completely overlooked.


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[BoldBear]

He did perform a quick search of the home. Reichenbach was the first person to search the basement.


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That's Kolar's accounting of events. Officer French's report is somewhat fuzzy. But as I noted, the sources don't paint the same timeline. Maybe you have a book in your library that's different than mine.

 

[AndHence]

I've always found French's words to Reichenbach that "something didn't seem right" completely chilling. French was the first person on the scene and we've never heard from him since. His immediate impressions are invaluable.

 

[AndHence]

Not to mention the fact that JR told both French and Arndt that he read to JB and BR before they went to bed that night. Completely overlooked.


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You're absolutely right. John told THREE different officers on the scene that day that he read to the kids before bed. This virtually eliminates the possibility of one officer making a mistake in their notes -- three officers didn't make this same mistake. This was one of the few key deviations from their initial statements that the Ramseys made when they finally had their first formal police interviews in April of '97.

 

[BoldBear]

You're absolutely right. John told THREE different officers on the scene that day that he read to the kids before bed. This virtually eliminates the possibility of one officer making a mistake in their notes -- three officers didn't make this same mistake. This was one of the few key deviations from their initial statements that the Ramseys made when they finally had their first formal police interviews in April of '97.

This is one of my biggest complaints about Paula Woodward's book. She goes about destroying the credibility of the police. I'm supposed to believe that different officers and detectives on the scene all had something against the Ramseys. I'm also supposed to believe that they didn't take notes before they completed their reports--they did it all from faulty memory. Before the body was found, the Ramseys told the police what JB wore to bed. This is a detail they would have written down because there was a kidnapping. They needed a description of what she may have been wearing. It's really crazy to say that police officers and detectives don't make good witnesses.

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

I've always found French's words to Reichenbach that "something didn't seem right" completely chilling. French was the first person on the scene and we've never heard from him since. His immediate impressions are invaluable.

The energy in the house that morning must have been incredibly heavy. Did anyone else (ie another officer) get the same impression?

 

[ItzShea]

there are some things about this case that will never be known, but they are details that drive you nutz - here's a few I have, what are yours?

1. Why was it so important to the Ramseys' story that JonBenet was asleep when they got home and was taken directly to bed? Burke said she woke up and helped carry stuff into the house. We know she had pineapple, so why lie about her being asleep? It seems as though it would have been easier to say that she woke up when they pulled into the garage, they futzed around and had a snack and then went to bed - why was it important enough to lie about it? It's as if they were afraid to have anyone know the child was on the first floor that night between those hours - why? Did something happen in that part of the house?

2. Why did Burke act so strangely that morning? Why did he pretend to be asleep, and why didn't his parents wake him up and ask him if he had seen or heard anything in the night? Why when his father came up to get him to take him to White's house, did he remain silent and not ask any questions? That's not the way nine year old boys act - they want to know everything that's going on and if a cop walks in the house, they're fascinated by him, and want to know why he's there. This kid did not ask ONE question or exhibit any fear or curiosity at all. (In my opinion, someone put the fear of God in this kid to keep him quiet. I can hear it now, "no matter what anyone asks you, you say you don't know, do you hear me?? Do you want Mom and Dad in jail?? Don't say anything!!!, I mean it, Burke!!!) And I don't care what anyone says about everyone being "different", nine year old boys don't act like that in that kind
of situation - he didn't even ask, "is JonBenet going with us to the Whites?"

3. How did that blood get in the underwear? She's been wiped clean, but there is blood on the crotch panel - so she had to have had them on, been injured, wiped clean, and then the underwear put back on with the longjohns with the urine stain in the front - otherwise, how could the blood have gotten there? Which means she had that pair of underwear on, she was injured, the underwear were pulled up, and then someone thought better of it, pulled them down, wiped her clean and then pulled the underwear back up. How else could the blood have gotten on that part of the underwear?

4. Patsy Ramsey was so insistent on the ransom note being on the spiral staircase, saying, "and that's how I come down every morning." How would an intruder know that? Why not leave it in her bed, or on the kitchen counter or the windshield of the car, or the steps leading down from their bedroom, where the parents would be sure of seeing it. And why would she never admit to having read the damned thing? Or why wouldn't she read it in the first place? If it was my kid, I'd of have it memorized. She insinuated to LE that it was 'weird" that Fleet White knew it so well - well, anyone with a brain and a heart would be reading that note over and over wondering if there was anything about it that could tell them who killed that little girl. What's weird, is that Patsy Ramsey didn't do that.

This baloney that the parents shouldn't be suspected because of their behavior, because everyone acts "differently" is just that - baloney. If everyone acted differently, we wouldn't have societal norms, we wouldn't have traditions, we wouldn't know how to act appropriately in situations. Not to get into anything too esoteric, but there is a biological mechanism in the brain called "theory of mind mechanism". It allows us to understand and act appropriately in society, because we observe appropriate behavior and store those reactions in the brain. These parents didn't act in the way innocent parents act - they go on tv, but can't talk to the police. They call a lawyer the very day it happened, and then refuse to be interviewed, they have investigators on Dec. 27th, taking statements from people who were there that day and don't even inform the police. They give physical evidence but won't talk to the cops or take polygraphs or do one thing to remove themselves as suspects in the case. Things have to make sense and this just does not make any sense at all.

Will someone tell me the members of Susan Stines’ Household and what ages?
Was there a boy Burkes’ Age?
Were there bike tracks across the Ramsey lawn in the snow?
Did anyone ride a bike away way and return it at a later date to the Ramsey home?
Did JR actually say, “ Susan, Jonbenet is dead.” On the phone? Was it overheard?

 

[UKGuy]

Will someone tell me the members of Susan Stines’ Household and what ages?
Was there a boy Burkes’ Age?
Were there bike tracks across the Ramsey lawn in the snow?
Did anyone ride a bike away way and return it at a later date to the Ramsey home?
Did JR actually say, “ Susan, Jonbenet is dead.” On the phone? Was it overheard?

ItzShea,

Susan Stine - Ramsey family friend who provided a Boulder hideout for the Ramseys. Ms. Stine was discovered disguising herself as Police Chief Mark Beckner in e-mails in 2003. She resides in Atlanta, GA.

Glenn Stine - Married to Susan Stine.

Doug Stine - son of Susan and Glen Stine, age 9.

Susan, Glenn, Doug Stine attended Ramsey Christmas Party 1996

John, Patsy, Burke Ramsey lived with Stines February 1997 - June 1997

Glenn Stine - joined John Ramsey's company August 1998 Atlanta

Susan Stine overhears Burke and Doug discuss JonBenet's death, circa Dec 29. 1996.

Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 353

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.”

Why would the details matter to such young boys, manual or ligature, where is the percentage in knowing that?

BlueCrab's BDI circa 2004

I think both parents came upon the disaster around 3:30 A.M. JonBenet had died at the hands of the boys, perhaps accidentally or perhaps on purpose, at around 1:00 A.M. The kids had most of the staging in place when the parents got up at 3:30 to get ready for the all-day trip to Charlevoix. TheRamseys had to be at the airport by 6:30, and never would have made it if they hadn't got up until 5:30 as they claim.

Yes, IMO John and Patsy knew immediately the kids were involved. But it appears they don't know "for sure" which one actually did the killing."

Burke and Doug Stine remain close friends.

Susan Stine, Glen Stine, or Doug Stine are not offical suspects in the death of JonBenet.

Glen Stine, Burke Ramsey and John Fernie's son age 10 and a male friend were present at JonBenet's Christmas Party, held a few days before her death, at which Susan Stine answered the Ramsey front door to a 911 First Responder.

From memory Patsy was given a new bike as a Christmas gift, this has since vanished, appears nowhere in the evidence records, JR says he gave lots of stuff like that away.

Did BR get a bike as a Christmas gift which has gone AWOL too?

I've never seen any photographs showing bicycle tracks in the snow.

Susan, Jonbenet is dead

Never read that, but its possible if JR phoned the Stines to say can we stay over, etc?

.

 

[TeaTime]

The Stines were the only 'best friends' that the Rs didn't call to come to the house that morning. Instead, the Stines went on vacation as planned. Perhaps they had already left by the time the Rs reported the kidnapping?

The last people known to have seen JBR alive beside the immediate family, were the Stines.

 

[Cottonstar]

Will someone tell me the members of Susan Stines’ Household and what ages?
Was there a boy Burkes’ Age?
Were there bike tracks across the Ramsey lawn in the snow?
Did anyone ride a bike away way and return it at a later date to the Ramsey home?
Did JR actually say, “ Susan, Jonbenet is dead.” On the phone? Was it overheard?

Yes, there were bicycle tracks in the snow on 12/26.

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