UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sept 2007

[dotr]

Andrew looks like a pretty cool kid, he is dressed not as nerd getting picked on, but as a confident young teen, long hair and all. Can imagine that he would want to head down to wherever all the music stores are located. speculation, imo.
http://helpustofindandrew.weebly.com/

 

[JG123]

Andrew looks like a pretty cool kid, he is dressed not as nerd getting picked on, but as a confident young teen, long hair and all. Can imagine that he would want to head down to wherever all the music stores are located. speculation, imo.
http://helpustofindandrew.weebly.com/

I'm afraid you're way off the mark there. SJ16321 summed this up well in his post above:

Problems - It's been said that Andrew had no problems and it probably did seem that way to his parents. However I'd be amazed if Andrew wasn't bullied. I was at high school when Andrew was and being into the alternative scene was enough to get you bullied on its own. With how nasty kids can be picking up on every little difference the fact that he was also short, looked younger than he was, wore glasses and would have been considered a "geek" would have made him an easy target for bullies. Staying in the house all the time as reported by his dad and avoiding the school bus are also huge signs of someone potentially being bullied.

 

[arranrigney]

All good points i especially agree about the return ticket being a major red herring. One thing though with him using the computers after school. Wouldn't this have been known about by the school and passed onto the police? I know the police were pretty much useless when investigating his disappearance but If he was staying behind late regularly to use the computers wouldn't the school have noticed? Presumably they had some kind of records of the kids that stayed later to use the computers.

Or do you mean he was using computers outside of the school?

I was finishing high school around that time (albeit in the UK) and I’d arrive early in the morning to use the computer room every day. Never had to sign in, and apparently I wasn’t at all noticeable as my teacher never understood why I was so far ahead in that class.

Things may have been different in the US around that time, but I considered my school to be pretty strict. Andrew’s proposed extra time on the school computers may not have been noticed or logged.


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[dotr]

I'm afraid you're way off the mark there. SJ16321 summed this up well in his post above:

It just goes to show, not only are appearances deceiving, but that if you do not fit in at one place, there are other places where you will be just fine. In Andrew's case, his appearance and interests would be apropos to downtown/ midtown Toronto, or perhaps any big city center.
Maybe one of his former classmates will open up and offer some clue as to what happened to Andrew. Luckily i have never had to be bussed to school, it sounds like a kind of h***, to me.
imo, speculation.

 

[JG123]

I was finishing high school around that time (albeit in the UK) and I’d arrive early in the morning to use the computer room every day. Never had to sign in, and apparently I wasn’t at all noticeable as my teacher never understood why I was so far ahead in that class.

Things may have been different in the US around that time, but I considered my school to be pretty strict. Andrew’s proposed extra time on the school computers may not have been noticed or logged.

That's interesting and makes the school theory more likely. Based on what I found in my last post it seems an outside library may be a place he'd be more likely to be noticed, just based on the rules and regulations that they had from 2012 that potentially would have been in place in 2007. Do you remember if things were the same after school, arranrigney, in regards to not signing in etc?

I'd be interested in SJ16321's experiences with after school activities and outside library access, as he grew up in Doncaster too.

 

[Jackalyn]

It has always bugged me that I have never heard any of Andrew's classmates speak about the case.

There must have been people who were Andrews friends even if they were a few people.

One can't help thinking that's some of the clue to Andrew's whereabouts lies in whatever Happened on those times he walked home. It wasn't a short distance.

 

[DarkerB]

I completely agree. Not a lot seems to be made of the fact he started walking home but I believe the clue to what happened might lie in what he was doing after school.

I also find it interesting the walking home started right after the Summer break and again, I've not heard much about what he did over the Summer. That's 6 or so weeks he could have been meeting up with someone, talking to them.

 

[forthefreefood]

Does anyone know the distance between his house and school?

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[Farley]

I completely agree. Not a lot seems to be made of the fact he started walking home but I believe the clue to what happened might lie in what he was doing after school.

I also find it interesting the walking home started right after the Summer break and again, I've not heard much about what he did over the Summer. That's 6 or so weeks he could have been meeting up with someone, talking to them.

I’ve always leant towards thinking Andrew was groomed by someone he knew IRL.

There is just simply no evidence he met or chatted to someone online. He may have used a proxy at school or at the library but he wouldn’t have been able to remove his tracks well enough to avoid forensic detection. The school and library PC’s were checked according to his dad. Everyone seems to just automatically jump to this conclusion but there is literally not an ounce of evidence to support it. The exact opposite in fact. That said, the police have been appalling in their handling of this case so it’s not like we can say with certainty that they didn’t mess that search up too.

The walking home from school would be a perfect time to walk with someone or meet someone and arrange a day trip to London.

There’s a lot of reasons why I personally feel Andrew was groomed by someone he knew IRL which I detailed in my first post in the thread.

After listening to the thin air podcast though I am confused a little. His dad believes the Pizza Hut sighting to be genuine. Nobody knows/knew Andrew like his family so if his family believe it was him then that’s good enough for me. But if he met someone in London where were they whilst he was in Pizza Hut? I’d always felt Andrew met someone he knew IRL who had lured him to London outside of KX but the Pizza Hut sighting means they either left him and went off wherever or he didn’t and was wondering around on his own for a while.

 

[DarkerB]

I’ve always leant towards thinking Andrew was groomed by someone he knew IRL.

There is just simply no evidence he met or chatted to someone online. He may have used a proxy at school or at the library but he wouldn’t have been able to remove his tracks well enough to avoid forensic detection. The school and library PC’s were checked according to his dad. Everyone seems to just automatically jump to this conclusion but there is literally not an ounce of evidence to support it. The exact opposite in fact. That said, the police have been appalling in their handling of this case so it’s not like we can say with certainty that they didn’t mess that search up too.

The walking home from school would be a perfect time to walk with someone or meet someone and arrange a day trip to London.

There’s a lot of reasons why I personally feel Andrew was groomed by someone he knew IRL which I detailed in my first post in the thread.

After listening to the thin air podcast though I am confused a little. His dad believes the Pizza Hut sighting to be genuine. Nobody knows/knew Andrew like his family so if his family believe it was him then that’s good enough for me. But if he met someone in London where were they whilst he was in Pizza Hut? I’d always felt Andrew met someone he knew IRL who had lured him to London outside of KX but the Pizza Hut sighting means they either left him and went off wherever or he didn’t and was wondering around on his own for a while.

I have listened to Thin Air but don't specifically remember if they said Andrew was alone or just seen?

I know Pizza Hut did at one point (maybe still do) a lunchtime/early afternoon all you can eat style buffet. Is it possible he was with someone but that person wasn't at the table at the time, was maybe in the bathroom or at the buffet and therefore wasn't seen?

 

[Farley]

I have listened to Thin Air but don't specifically remember if they said Andrew was alone or just seen?

I know Pizza Hut did at one point (maybe still do) a lunchtime/early afternoon all you can eat style buffet. Is it possible he was with someone but that person wasn't at the table at the time, was maybe in the bathroom or at the buffet and therefore wasn't seen?

He said he the police never followed it up so the family themselves did. Also that the way the server described the person, their mannerisms and how they spoke etc that he was pretty sure it was Andrew. They didn’t specifically say he was alone but I imagine if he wasn’t that would have been a very vital clue and they’d be trying to get that persons details out to as many people as possible in hopes of identifying them.

They do still do the afternoon all you can eat but your server does visit the table more than once. They take orders, bring drinks (they have self serve drinks machines now but didn’t then), so would have I’m sure remembered if the table had one or two drinks, and more importantly the bill, which I’m sure they’d have noted if it was for more than one all you can eat. Especially when it became important that Andrew had been seen there.

 

[DarkerB]

Does anyone know the distance between his house and school?

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He lived in Balby and attended McAuley Catholic School.

According to a quick Google maps, it puts Balby (random point in the centre) to the school at 5.2 miles according to the route given. I am not sure where in Balby he lived to get a more accurate idea. I think my main takeaway is it appears to be a fair walk, certainly not just 20 mins anyway.

 

[Farley]

He lived in Balby and attended McAuley Catholic School.

According to a quick Google maps, it puts Balby (random point in the centre) to the school at 5.2 miles according to the route given. I am not sure where in Balby he lived to get a more accurate idea. I think my main takeaway is it appears to be a fair walk, certainly not just 20 mins anyway.

The official website says little more lane so according to google maps 4.1 miles.

 

[DarkerB]

The official website says little more lane so according to google maps 4.1 miles.

Thank you. I don't know if I was a lazy 14 year old but that is still a fair walk.

 

[John.121]

I recall his dad saying that it was not unusual for nobody to notice if Andrew was in or not from the time he came home until the time the family ate dinner because he'd normally be in the cellar playing his video games. So my question is how do they even know Andrew was home on time from school all these other days if nobody ever checked until the evening when he was called for dinner? He could have met up with someone and been out with them or hanging with them after school for a couple of hours while it was assumed by the family he was simply downstairs playing on his xbox.

 

[Farley]

I recall his dad saying that it was not unusual for nobody to notice if Andrew was in or not from the time he came home until the time the family ate dinner because he'd normally be in the cellar playing his video games. So my question is how do they even know Andrew was home on time from school all these other days if nobody ever checked until the evening when he was called for dinner? He could have met up with someone and been out with them or hanging with them after school for a couple of hours while it was assumed by the family he was simply downstairs playing on his xbox.

He’d have had to have been home before they got back from work for them to assume he was down stairs.

If he wasn’t back before they came in from work then they’d have heard him come home late.

School usually finishes at 3:30pm. Give him 30-45 minutes to get home from school. Say his parents finish work at 4:30-5pm at
Most he would have had an hour or so to hang out with someone before it got to the point that he’d have arrived after his parents, this alerting them to the fact he didn’t head straight home from school.

Obviously that time would have been effected by how far or close they were to Andrew’s house when they ‘hung out’ as that would have added or takes away the time it took to got home.

I still thing he was groomed by someone he knew in real life.

 

[ekardh]

I still think it was a relative/family friend who lived down south.

 

[JammyGem]

I may have missed this, but does anyone know what type of ticket a single from Doncaster to London Andrew bought? Was it one of those travelcards that includes all tube and bus journeys? Or just a direct single to Kings Cross?

 

[badgersmythe]

I may have missed this, but does anyone know what type of ticket a single from Doncaster to London Andrew bought? Was it one of those travelcards that includes all tube and bus journeys? Or just a direct single to Kings Cross?

Good question. I’d be interested to know if this was ever mentioned.


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[HintofJustice]

Thoughts and questions...

-I used to dream of skipping school and taking public transportation to Manhattan, getting a slice of pizza, buying some candy at the Hershey's store, heading to TKTS for a half price ticket, catching a matinee of some show, devouring that candy, and making it home before my parents realized I hadn't stayed late for an after school activity. Sadly, I couldn't make the trip in time from the Midwest and I couldn't buy a plane ticket, so it remained but a dream... I think Andrew might have wanted this type of a day. The freedom to go around a big city on your own terms and either not get caught or not care if you are.

If so, what Andrew did seems so adult. I imagine groups or pairs do the day adventure more... Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He seems like a book smart but not street smart kid. Maybe he thought he was meeting someone.

-Not bringing the PSP charger is a red herring.

-As in the case of Roger Ellison: I don't think he committed suicide and masked it so well that no one has found him years later. Not in such a populated place that was not home to him.

1. Do we know if this wasn't the first time doing this? Are all of his school absences accounted for?

2. Which, if any, of his classmates or teachers were absent that day?

3. Did he have friends? It's strange we haven't heard much from friends. If there were friends, I'd like to hear them describe Andrew's personality, including his greatest struggles.

If he had friends, he could have been using a friend's/acquaintance's computer.

If he didn't have friends, he was very likely bullied. My parents didn't know I was bullied for years.

It might have been worthwhile to look into the chat and text records of his classmates to see their thoughts and attitudes (and actions)... Ah well.

4. What do his teachers say? He went to a Catholic school. Was he close to any priests? (Not like that.) Did he share any of his concerns with trusted teachers?

5. Any game, book, movie, music releases he was excited about? I see a Harry Potter book came out a couple of months before, so probably not that. Perhaps an author or musician promoting a new work and doing a signing?

6. What activities did he have outside of the regular school day?

7. Has the CCTV footage been analyzed by body language experts? I know it's only a few seconds of him walking, but it's possible a trained eye could tell us whether is he was nervous, confident, excited, etc.

8. Any hotels he could have afforded that would have taken cash?

I think that's enough for now. Would like to hear your thoughts.