Gun Control Debate #6

[EuTuCroquet?]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/5938...n-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality

"he Parkland shooting last month has energized student activists, who are angry and frustrated over gun violence. But it's also contributed to the impression that school shootings are a growing epidemic in America.

In truth, they're not.

"Schools are safer today than they had been in previous decades," says James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University who has studied the phenomenon of mass murder since the 1980s.

Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel crunched the numbers, and the results should come as a relief to parents.

First, while multiple-victim shootings in general are on the rise, that's not the case in schools. There's an average of about one a year — in a country with more than 100,000 schools.

"There were more back in the '90s than in recent years," says Fox. "For example, in one school year — 1997-98 — there were four multiple-victim shootings in schools."

Second, the overall number of gunshot victims at schools is also down. According to Fox's numbers, back in the 1992-93 school year, about 0.55 students per million were shot and killed; in 2014-15, that rate was closer to 0.15 per million.

"The difference is the impression, the perception that people have," Fox says — and he traces that to cable news and social media. "Today we have cell phone recordings of gunfire that play over and over and over again. So it's that the impression is very different. That's why people think things are a lot worse now, but the statistics say otherwise."

Other experts agree. Garen Wintemute is an emergency room physician who leads a prominent gun violence research program at the University of California, Davis. He says school shootings, specifically, are not epidemic.

"Schools are just about the safest place in the world for kids to be," Wintemute says. "Although each one of them is horrific and rivets the entire nation for a period of time, mass shootings at schools are really very uncommon, and they are not increasing in frequency. What's changed is how aware we are of them."

Right.

They’ve just become more deadly, not more frequent.

 

[STANDREID]

With all the goofy stuff this Hogg guy is saying, I'm to beginning wonder if he's an NRA shill-brilliant strategy if true!

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Column: White people don’t understand the trauma of viral police-killing videos

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/column-trauma-police-dont-post-videos

People ask me if the problem is getting worse. No, this has been going on all along but now we’re capturing more of it on video. How is this affecting the black community? “How do you think,” I want to say. We are sad, angry, and traumatized. We’re living in terror. This racial trauma can cause symptoms like anxiety, depression, phobias, acting-out and feelings of hopelessness (e.g., Carter, 2007).

I close my eyes and sometimes have flashbacks of these killings. When I see a police car I feel terrified. They are supposed to protect and serve everyone, but because of my race I don’t really believe that includes me or people like me.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Right?! NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch fires back with the extremist rhetoric like: "Many in legacy media love mass shootings," saying the "left" use "their media to assassinate real news."

I'm not sure the gun-business lobby deserves a seat at this table, imo.

With all the goofy stuff this Hogg guy is saying, I'm to beginning wonder if he's an NRA shill-brilliant strategy if true!

 

[Woodland]

Was browsing gun violence and came across a clip of Meghan McCain giving an opinion on The View. I'm not a fan so not going to link it here, but it's not hard to find for anyone wanting to hear it.

MM makes a statement while discussing the Parkland Shooting aftermath - paraphrasing - any talk of gun control makes people like me paranoid. The word paranoid stood out as I'm sure I see paranoia in various posts and articles on the same issue, but this is the first time I have heard someone say they are paranoid at the mention of gun control.

MM doesn't say, in the clip anyway, what she is paranoid of. A feeling of paranoia is pretty strong, it takes a lot to bring that out in someone. Is it the result of some sort of indoctrination? From the NRA? MM mentions she is a strong supporter of the NRA.

MM's paranoia is an issue for MM imo - if she is speaking out against gun control because she is paranoid, then I cannot take her seriously. I'm under the impression many others feel the same way as MM - what is always lacking in such opinions is any consideration or empathy for those that have been injured or killed from the many guns available.

Some paranoid people are keeping the whole population hostage? Idk but sure wonder now. Thank-you to MM for her candor or whatever it was that caused her to reveal she is paranoid over gun control.

 

[kimlynn]

Right?! NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch fires back with the extremist rhetoric like: "Many in legacy media love mass shootings," saying the "left" use "their media to assassinate real news."

I'm not sure the gun-business lobby deserves a seat at this table, imo.

I wonder if NRA members know or care that their dues and donations are being used to pay off politicians.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-donations-parkland-shooting_us_5abc9a9ce4b06409775d3255

Donations to the group spiked in the aftermath of the school shooting, in which a former student armed with an assault-style rifle killed 17 people. According to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, the NRA received “twice as much money from nearly five times as many donors” in the week after the shooting, compared with the week before.

 

[human]

Never heard of getting out and approaching the police vehicle when pulled over in usa, never. If i was a cop and the person i pulled over got out i would immediately think they had something they didn’t want me to see.

When was it that way? I’ve been driving since 72 and it was always stay in vehicle and wait for officer to approach your vehicle.

Driving since 66. From Minnesota, It was that way forever and then I do not know when it changed. Your state may have been different. Minnesota was always more Mayberry and polite back in the day.

Our constable knew everyone, With issues, he went and spoke with the parents. And I lived in a place in the country that was originally settled by those who did not want to live among others. Lots of rule breakers.

Of course, as time went on, the beautiful unspoiled land was seen as a huge plus and the population changed a lot. But the constable and his deputy knew everyone,

 

[human]

Not true actually. The survey I linked was conducted AFTER Sandy Hook. ( and really common sense has NO expiration date!).

"Gun Policy & Law Enforcement survey, which drew more than 15,000 completed responses from verified law enforcement professionals. Covering a broad range of topics related to the gun control debate in our country, the survey found that the overall attitude of law enforcement is strongly anti-gun legislation and pro-gun rights, with the belief that an armed citizenry is effective in stopping crime.

"A full 86 percent feel that casualties would have been reduced or avoided in recent tragedies like Newtown and Aurora if a legally-armed citizen was present (casualties reduced: 80 percent; avoided altogether: 60 percent)."

https://www.policeone.com/gun-legis...d-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/

Is there a poll that asks them if they are scared of dying because so many people have guns nowadays?

 

[human]

I wonder if NRA members know or care that their dues and donations are being used to pay off politicians.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-donations-parkland-shooting_us_5abc9a9ce4b06409775d3255

Donations to the group spiked in the aftermath of the school shooting, in which a former student armed with an assault-style rifle killed 17 people. According to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, the NRA received “twice as much money from nearly five times as many donors” in the week after the shooting, compared with the week before.

This is beyond sickening.

America says it is some kind of freedom democracy leader.

What a joke. There are so many posts here talking about armed motorcycles, civilians with guns, and on and on.

Sounds more like some kind of terrifying countries that live in constant war.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/...-admission.html?smid=tw-nytnational&smtyp=cur

“I wanted to make a difference through storytelling and political activism, but I am already doing that now.”
The Parkland students are a case study in civic engagement. They are among the leaders of the #NeverAgain movement, collectively delivering fiery speeches that demand change, promoting their message on social media and organizing the March for Our Lives rally held last weekend, which drew participants from across the globe.


These kids are utterly inspiring.. amazing fresh energies.. bright and intelligent.

I so wish them well.

 

[Safeguard]

This whole thread just makes me so sad. I mean it's not like this thread is gonna make a difference anyway, we are here, (all what? five of us?) to mainly argue, not debate...

I think it's horrible and disingenuous, to frighten our children by acting as if every day in school could be their last.

My daughter Lily attended her very first St. Patrick's day parade in Boston this year. (I'm not a big fan, I personally feel it should be renamed, Binge Drinking Day from personal experience), But her best friend was going, and they invited her. She was excited but she said to me, as she was getting ready, " I am a little anxious that there might be a shooting or something":...

I said, " No one ever kills leprechauns, it's very bad Karma! Go and enjoy yourself!" She had a marvelous time. They threw candy tee-shirts, hats, and she came home loaded with green bead necklaces...

I will insist that my child not live in a world of political paranoia.

When a killer goes off the rails and decides to kill their fellow human beings, I feel that is the most traumatic loss of life that exists. And for people who amplify the risks of that occurring for political gain are no better than sadists... Especially when they insist on perpetuating the myth that removing constitutional rights from American citizens is the answer to violence when we all know that's not true. IMO>

 

[flourish]

This whole thread just makes me so sad. I mean it's not like this thread is gonna make a difference anyway, we are here, (all what? five of us?) to mainly argue, not debate...

RSBM


Please speak only for yourself.
And here you are, too.

Leprechauns aren't immune to violence. I realize you were being comforting and reassuring, but... I don't know...reality and what not. I mean, I'm making the assumption that she's old enough to know leprechauns aren't real, anyway.

Neither here nor there probably.

 

[Safeguard]

RSBM


Please speak only for yourself.
And here you are, too.

Leprechauns aren't immune to violence. I realize you were being comforting and reassuring, but... I don't know...reality and what not. I mean, I'm making the assumption that she's old enough to know leprechauns aren't real, anyway.

Neither here nor there probably.

bbm
Yes. she is almost 13 so old enough to understand that leprechauns aren't real, and also that guns aren't Evil and barring access to them, for sane competent people, will cost lives, not save them.

It's mind boggling to me, that twenty little kids huddled in corner and slaughtered, is preferable to some than an armed teacher... but we will never see things the same, I am thinking... Does anyone here have a child in school... Just wondering...

ETA oh, and I was speaking only for myself Florish ( a skill I dare say you could polish), and yes. I am here too. Because we are a nation governed by constitutional rights, not a democracy...

 

[flourish]

bbm
Yes. she is almost 13 so old enough to understand that leprechauns aren't real, and also that guns aren't Evil and barring access to them, for sane competent people, will cost lives, not save them.

It's mind boggling to me, that twenty little kids huddled in corner and slaughtered, is preferable to some than an armed teacher... but we will never see things the same, I am thinking... Does anyone here have a child in school... Just wondering...

It's mind boggling to you because it's not an either or situation and therefore isn't accurate. Your mind bogs are telling you something just may not be what you think.

 

[Safeguard]

It's mind boggling to you because it's not an either or situation and therefore isn't accurate. Your mind bogs are telling you something just may not be what you think.


Speak for yourself Florish. Cause you know what? My kid doesn't believe in Leprechauns, and I also don't want her believing in the myth gun legislation makes us safer...

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

While Parkland students fight mass shootings, don't forget everyday gun reforms: Bo Dietl

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/29/gun-control-commonsense-reforms/465465002/

On average, in the United States each year 116,200 are injured by firearms and of those around 35,000 die from their injuries. Mass shootings are certainly tragic events that often bring media attention onto the issue of gun reform but are extremely rare. In 2017, approximately 437 fatalities or 2.8% of all gun deaths excluding suicides were due to shootings where at least four victims were injured or killed. Everyday gun violence does not get the same coverage in the media as mass shooting events, but these incidents make up the clear majority injuries and deaths due to firearms.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Police Shootings Are Gun Violence, Too. Alton Sterling was a victim.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/police-shootings-are-gun-violence-too

Fatal police shootings are gun violence, too. Parkland has raised awareness that school shootings are incomprehensible and must stop, as must all incidents of domestic terror involving guns. But these struggles should also be tied to the routine occurrence of officer-involved shootings. American police kill more people than their peers in other nations; they've fatally shot 253 people so far this year, according to data from The Washington Post.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Fox host apologizes for taunting Parkland student David Hogg

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43587230

He also said that he has a 4.2 grade-point average (GPA) and scored a 1270 on the SAT, a key college placement exam. Both scores are considered above average.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Gun Policy Is Already Changing In The Wake Of Parkland

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-policy-is-already-changing-in-the-wake-of-parkland/

Since the Parkland shooting, a slew of gun control measures have been adopted at the local, state and federal level, while the private sector has moved to make guns less available, and some proposals to expand gun rights have been stalled. Although most of these changes are fairly limited in scope and fall far short of gun control advocates’ goals, they represent a shift in momentum from expanding gun rights to constricting them.

Here are the biggest developments.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Investors push gun companies for 'immediate, positive' steps to end violence

• Institutional investors call on companies to take meaningful action
• Firms must ‘take a public stand in favor of improved gun safety’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/29/investors-gun-companies-action-violence

A group of 142 institutional investors on Thursday called on gun manufacturers, retailers and other companies with ties to the gun industry to take “meaningful action” to address the US’s epidemic of gun violence in the wake of February’s mass shooting in Florida.

The statement, which says “the moral case for action grows more urgent each day”, was drafted by the Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility (ICCR), a coalition of global institutional investors. It has been signed by US and European investors including the UK’s Hermes that together manage over $634bn in assets.