CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

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Oh. Oh my.

The lyrics.

"..go forth with no real direction... dreaming of the day we drive our cars into the ocean...and all the people will look on wondering what to say...and live confused about us til the day they do the same....and they will see while swimming that they are free..."

Is Nahko the performer from the young Devonte hug video? I've seen that name before.

In the Thanksgiving video where the kids are singing “we are so provided for”, one of the girls is holding a guitar. The camera zooms in on the guitar, which features his autograph. There are other videos of Devonte on stage with them.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/03/...lunge-that-may-have-killed-the-entire-family/
 
So they are saying they would have rather been in the foster care system than adopted by a loving family of a different race? Do you have a source for this, I’m genuinely curious and not trying to be snarky.

My best friend since childhood is Latina and black and was adopted by white parents. Her biological mother was a drug addict and my best friend was in the hospital for a couple months right after being born due to going through crack withdrawals. I can’t imagine my best friend thinking it would have been better to go through the foster care system as opposed to being raised by her awesome (white) parents. So I’m just curious to read more context of your claims, to see *why* these adoptees you speak of feel the way they do. TIA

I edited my original comment to add an article before I saw your comment. It is difficult to provide sources since I belong to a lot of closed FB groups where this is discussed. I can delete it if I need to, but I will say that I don't think the choice is as simple as you have portrayed it. It isn't that they would have rather been raised in foster care. That is similar to the very upsetting argument that so many people use when they say adoptees should be thankful they weren't aborted. I think the point is more that there are some issues with it that have been historically overlooked or unacknowledged by many families like the Harts appear to be - that believe "love" is a cure-all with no consideration of trying to meet the child's real and unique needs. That isn't to say that all interracial adoptive families act in this way, since some try very hard to acknowledge and overcome this complexity, but there are also a lot who haven't, and even some that have done everything they could, but the adoptee still feels something is missing.

Edited to add - I don't see others being asked to provide a source for their personal experiences and anecdotes, including yours. Here's another one, as you will see it is very complex, not all bad, but definitely not all good either - http://myblackmatters.com/the-struggles-of-being-a-transracial-adoptee/ and another - https://www.theroot.com/3-black-adoptees-on-racial-identity-after-growing-up-in-1790858603
 
Nahko & Medicine for the People - Mr Washington w/lyrics

0:22---"dreaming of the day we drive our car into the ocean"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szmcyTDIx5o&app=desktop#

Good grief, that’s one way to brainwash a child. One of the band members has been interviewed a few times and is still staunchly supporting the mothers http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/hart_familys_idyllic_public_im.html

ETA he’s the one with the music school the kids studied at for a year.

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This is going a little off-track, but bear with me.

Mia Farrow did this to Soon-Yi Previn. I found it SO disturbing and most people didn’t pick up on it. She spoke about how ungrateful Soon-Yi was; after all, when Mia Farrow adopted her, she was crawling with lice and non-verbal and sitting in her own filth. And how could this gutter creature she saved and sent to the best schools turn around and betray her?! Regardless of what Soon-Yi ever did (and personally, I view S-Y as Allen’s prey), that’s your child.

That tactic serves to debase the child and elevate the savior parent. That’s pathological.

I agree with this. Never saw her in a positive light after.
 
I wonder if they pulled off to sleep. Everyone took seatbelts off. Women wake up and put seat belts back on. Maybe they got out first and talked or maybe even argued. Maybe not. Maybe the other mom didn't have a clue and the driver just floored it? I don't know, just can't figure out why the seat belts are off the kids and that is the only thing i can come up with.
 
I wonder if they pulled off to sleep. Everyone took seatbelts off. Women wake up and put seat belts back on. Maybe they got out first and talked or maybe even argued. Maybe not. Maybe the other mom didn't have a clue and the driver just floored it? I don't know, just can't figure out why the seat belts are off the kids and that is the only thing i can come up with.

This is assuming the children usually had seatbelts on. Maybe the adults didn’t care and never made the kids wear seatbelts.
 
The Harts had two adoptions of two sets of siblings. Possibly they wanted to keep their children within the same ethnicity or possibly the first set of children had a say in the second set of adoptions.

I am a white mom with black kids...here's how it happens. The agency asks, what color child are you comfortable with...some parents say white only and it is on all of your placement paperwork...and others say Latino...etc. We are also told that there are 30,000 children waiting for homes and the majority are black or Hispanic. Then you open your mind and your heart and you say, I can do this...I can adopt a child outside of my race. Trust me it is so not about you at that point at all...in fact, it will become even more so about the kids. You learn to do their hair and skin and you learn to navigate in a world full of racist people, both blacks and whites.

The adoption agency calls and says they have a child for you and you say yes or no...if you say no based on race...well....um, you shouldn't have been open to race.(and if you want a white kid only, foster care may not the adoption route one should take). My children are all brown, it's the way they wanted it to be...the first two have had a say on the color of the third...and the first had a say in the color of the second, so I'm a white mom with 2 soon to be three black kids.

Not once...was I in this to save a black kid! I wanted to be a mother, I figured why not adopt one of the 30,000 children without a home. After adopting a child from birth I ended up with a child who was bipolar, ADHD and psychotic who has three therapy appointments a week and another who still chews her clothes even at 12 because of sensory issues brought on by drug exposure in the womb. Most foster adoptive kids have issues and their issues can be really hard on a family.

I think part of the sheltering happening with this family was spurned by the negative outlook on who they were as a family. I have to say as a "hippie" mom myself with black kids, I'm feeling quite angered by the way this family is depicted. I don't think camping and going to festivals is wrong...neither is homeschooling or being lesbians in a transracial family.

Instead of shut people away, they should have reached out for help...perhaps it became too much for them, but abuse, showing off, saving and parading children usually is never an adoptive parent's goal. My gut sense says they shut themselves away because they didn't like the negative attention they got, needed help for the kid's issues but didn't reach out to get it, and then they couldn't control the behaviors anymore, didn't have the right resources to parent them or the skills to manage their issues so made bad parenting choices and would rather die with them...than lose them. Horrific of course, but going to festivals, camping, touching worms, and being a transracial family is not...driving off a cliff is.

Fantastic post


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I edited my original comment to add an article before I saw your comment. It is difficult to provide sources since I belong to a lot of closed FB groups where this is discussed. I can delete it if I need to, but I will say that I don't think the choice is as simple as you have portrayed it. It isn't that they would have rather been raised in foster care. That is similar to the very upsetting argument that so many people use when they say adoptees should be thankful they weren't aborted. I think the point is more that there are some issues with it that have been historically overlooked or unacknowledged by many families like the Harts appear to be - that believe "love" is a cure-all with no consideration of trying to meet the child's real and unique needs. That isn't to say that all interracial adoptive families act in this way, since some try very hard to acknowledge and overcome this complexity, but there are also a lot who haven't, and even some that have done everything they could, but the adoptee still feels something is missing.

Edited to add - I don't see others being asked to provide a source for their personal experiences and anecdotes, including yours.

You didn’t state that your post was based on personal and private conversations, so I was not aware it was anecdotal. That’s why I asked for a source. My understanding was that your post was based on MSM articles and statistics since it wasn’t stated as opinion.

Based on this link, 37% of adoptees are non Hispanic white, while 73% of adoptive parents are non Hispanic white. Which IMO means that there are far more white adoptive parents than of other races. I don’t know how to put my point on paper without coming across wrong.
 
Adult adoptee here, while nothing traumatic and out of the ordinary happened to me before my adoption (as far as I know, after being born, I was sent briefly to a foster home until my adoption finalized), the simple fact of being adopted can lead to attachment disorder. I do remember thinking, not due to anything I recall being told, that I should be well-behaved so that I would not be sent away. My adoptive mother never should have been allowed to adopt children and thankfully, á la the movie “The Help”, outsourced all childcare to a lovely, beautiful woman who literally saved my life. Adoptive mother thought very highly of herself and treated us like despised step children. She was very concerned about how others saw her and kept us as isolated as possible. I don’t know the facts of this case, all I can surmise is that the women got in way over their heads, taking on more children than they could handle. Their children likely had special needs which further complicated the world they created. Anytime parents isolate children, I get a familiar, nauseous feeling. One thing my adoptive mother did was to isolate from everyone except her mother. She had no friends, no social life whatsoever. I often thought as a child if she could only talk to other moms, she could relax and be a kinder person. My heart is broken for these children. One of the scariest things about adoption is once it is finalized, no one ever comes back to check on the children. A therapist once told me I would have been removed from the home if anyone ever knew what she had done. Alas back in those days, as today, adopted children are subjected to whatever treatment their so-called parents dish out.
 
Adult adoptee here, while nothing traumatic and out of the ordinary happened to me before my adoption (as far as I know, after being born, I was sent briefly to a foster home until my adoption finalized), the simple fact of being adopted can lead to attachment disorder. I do remember thinking, not due to anything I recall being told, that I should be well-behaved so that I would not be sent away. My adoptive mother never should have been allowed to adopt children and thankfully, á la the movie “The Help”, outsourced all childcare to a lovely, beautiful woman who literally saved my life. Adoptive mother thought very highly of herself and treated us like despised step children. She was very concerned about how others saw her and kept us as isolated as possible. I don’t know the facts of this case, all I can surmise is that the women got in way over their heads, taking on more children than they could handle. Their children likely had special needs which further complicated the world they created. Anytime parents isolate children, I get a familiar, nauseous feeling. One thing my adoptive mother did was to isolate from everyone except her mother. She had no friends, no social life whatsoever. I often thought as a child if she could only talk to other moms, she could relax and be a kinder person. My heart is broken for these children. One of the scariest things about adoption is once it is finalized, no one ever comes back to check on the children. A therapist once told me I would have been removed from the home if anyone ever knew what she had done. Alas back in those days, as today, adopted children are subjected to whatever treatment their so-called parents dish out.

Wow, arta, I'm sorry that happened to you. You obviously have a lot of compassion, and I hope you’ve healed some.
 
Good grief, that’s one way to brainwash a child. One of the band members has been interviewed a few times and is still staunchly supporting the mothers http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/hart_familys_idyllic_public_im.html


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So, do I remember correctly that Jen's FB has been "locked down"? Why? Who? When? Doesn't she have all the happy family fabrication? Why not memorialize her FB for all her adoring fans post mortem?

Or dang it, do I have them backwards. Ok..Sarah has a selfie and Jen has a picture of herself w/ Sarah. Yes, J is locked down, S has visible material.

Sarah is slightly thinner in the face, brown hair, blue leggings in Bernie rally photo. Celebrator of Bday in YouTube vid. Jen is a little rounder in the face, more redhead, middle of Sanders' rally photo with black & white leggings. Brushing teeth in YouTube vid.

Sorry, I'm a written learner, I hope writing out that mental note for myself will help cement the information. Thank you to whomever for sharing the FB links earlier.

Also, for personal reference. J stayed home, S worked. J accused by AH in 2010, S pleads guilty.
 
You didn’t state that your post was based on personal and private conversations, so I was not aware it was anecdotal. That’s why I asked for a source. My understanding was that your post was based on MSM articles and statistics since it wasn’t stated as opinion.

Based on this link, 37% of adoptees are non Hispanic white, while 73% of adoptive parents are non Hispanic white. Which IMO means that there are far more white adoptive parents than of other races. I don’t know how to put my point on paper without coming across wrong.

Okay, understood. As you can see, I am not as familiar with how to post here as you might be. They weren't exactly private conversations, but rather in adoption support type groups, so pretty extensive and plentiful over a lot of years - far from a one-off. Regardless, I get your point and acknowledge there is truth in it. Mine is simply that it is not always an optimal situation for the adoptee and, in some case, much less than optimal. It is a complex issue and there is no easy answer. This sad situation appears to be an especially bad example.
 
Re Waldorf schools: I am somewhat familiar with this type of school, based on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner
This is a good primer about him and he is acknowledged to be the creator of Waldorf schools, among many other things. My recollection is there are a lot of things they believe to be beneficial to children, such as giving them wooden as opposed to plastic toys, painting rooms colors that are child-friendly, incorporating knowledge about the natural world like growing plants/gardens and so on. It’s easy to dismiss all of this out of hand as so much new age gobbldygook, so that’s why it helps to read the info in the link.

See the bolded, but that's exactly what it is. Steiner was an esoteric racist nutjob.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ble-lessons-for-todays-children-a7402911.html

I don't even know which parts to quote from the link, you just have to read it all. Not only are their "teachings" racist, the science they teach is complete BS as well.

Just one quote:

“Some of the lessons are just crazy, ” says Dugan, “like the way they teach about colour. They believe that white light is not composed of colours mixed together. They believe white light is pure spirit.”

Teachers also don't get problems for using the "N" word. It's the same with all the esoteric and new age crap. I don't understand why people who are oh so liberal and esoteric don't go crazy with cognitive dissonance. New age/esoteric beliefs actually roughly go back 100 - 150 years, and we all know that racism and anti-semitism was "normal" back then. Even the Nazis had esoteric roots, see Thule Society:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

And it all started with this woman in the mid 19th century and the new age movement has its roots in her teachings. Most people who are in this movement don't even know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky

Also, talking about cognitive dissonance, just look at the hiippies in the sixties, they all wanted to be so free and so full of love but they all had those new age beliefs that are actually connected to fascism and racism. And they all had their gurus that they saw as their leaders and followed them blindly. Often ending up in a cult = authoritarian system. While at the same time believing in freedom and seeing themselves as anti-fascism, anti-racism and anti-war.

Those movements still exist today and it looks like this family was part of it. A card-reading trauma nurse? Fits right in with all this. And the children definitely were brainwashed, those poor souls.
 
This is going a little off-track, but bear with me.

Mia Farrow did this to Soon-Yi Previn. I found it SO disturbing and most people didn’t pick up on it. She spoke about how ungrateful Soon-Yi was; after all, when Mia Farrow adopted her, she was crawling with lice and non-verbal and sitting in her own filth. And how could this gutter creature she saved and sent to the best schools turn around and betray her?! Regardless of what Soon-Yi ever did (and personally, I view S-Y as Allen’s prey), that’s your child.

That tactic serves to debase the child and elevate the savior parent. That’s pathological.
Exactly! That's your baby whether you birthed them or not. Otherwise why go out of your way to be a parent? & I used to like and admire her back in the day.
 
I can usually never remember my dreams, but once in a while I have the same recurrent nightmare, which I do remember when I wake up: being a passenger in a car, which goes over the edge of a cliff towards the sea, and then I wake up halfway down with that falling feeling that sometimes wakes you. Very scary feeling until I realise I'm safe in my own bed, and I'm really wishing I couldn't imagine so well how those poor children (and Sarah, if she was not a willing participant) must have felt.

I'd like to know more about the family, but the snippets we have do sound very odd - ok, I'm not an activism kind of person so just don't understand that lifestyle (although I'm not convinced it's appropriate for children, particularly children who might have various psychological and developmental problems) but why was Devonte the "star", front and centre in everything? Yes, in families there often is naturally a favourite child, but good parents try not to show it too much. Some of the photos of him really make me uncomfortable (hugging strangers, dancing in underwear - sure, it's fine to do that at home, but don't film it and put it on the internet!), and that's before we get into the reported abuse, which may well be a tip of the iceberg. Urgh. Poor kids, I can only agee with those who've said they seemed to be "props" for their parents rather than individuals with the freedom to do their own things.
 
Here is the most recent photos of the kids [emoji174]
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Max Ribner. Another one of their family friends that set off my creepy meter. He gave the kids music lessons and wrote songs with them and has been all over the media putting forth the party line about how they were so inspiring. Hmm.

He’s another one. He also said “. “I don’t think people realize what it takes to be a mother, raise six kids, many of whom came from hard backgrounds.”
As if we’re all stupid. Yes, we DO realize. It’s why people don’t adopt six children from “hard backgrounds”.
 
Oh. Oh my.

The lyrics.

"..go forth with no real direction... dreaming of the day we drive our cars into the ocean...and all the people will look on wondering what to say...and live confused about us til the day they do the same....and they will see while swimming that they are free..."

OH MY GOD! That's insane! And I think they were probably friends with those 2 musicians, that's why they are seen on stage with them in a couple of videos plus there is this video with them singing and wishing one of them a Happy Thanksgiving.

God, this story is so insane and so extremely sad at the same time. I know this is probably not what is going to happen, but I really hope that they find the missing kids alive.
 
He’s another one. He also said “. “I don’t think people realize what it takes to be a mother, raise six kids, many of whom came from hard backgrounds.”
As if we’re all stupid. Yes, we DO realize. It’s why people don’t adopt six children from “hard backgrounds”.

For being a lesbian couple, they spent an awful lot of time hanging out with weirdo men who go around half nude. Sorry, I am so creeped out by the photos online of this Ribner guy, and of the Xavier guy mentioned earlier.
 
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