NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

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I don't disagree with you on that so I'm not sure why you brought it up, I too doubt she ran into the woods. What I was saying is that the part about her calling her boyfriend is untrue and has been debunked a while ago.

I got that. She did not call her boyfriend. The reason I brought up the woods theory is because I see a lot of post about how she just ran in to the woods and died. So I just wanted to clear that up for people that would think that.

I could see her maybe trying to hide behind a house or something until the coast was clear, but you can't just run in to the woods without a path and flashlight.

Because the dogs tracked her scent 100-yards from her car - I would say that's pretty telling that she may have entered in to a vehicle.
 
People tend to overestimate dog scent, in this case they tracked her scent 100 yards from the car a full 2 days AFTER she went missing from that spot so the time length between the two events has to be taken into account.
 
We'll, considering she was in her car for several hours, there should have been a pretty strong scent. I did not realize it was two days later, but still.
 
People tend to overestimate dog scent, in this case they tracked her scent 100 yards from the car a full 2 days AFTER she went missing from that spot so the time length between the two events has to be taken into account.
*Let's not discount or underplay a dog's scent ability. I'm not sure what kind of tracking dog was used but "air scent" dogs can locate a person in a forest without even knowing their entry point, miles away. Do dogs sometimes miss things, of course, but I wouldn't say we can't rely on them. As far as tracking a scent 2 days later, read this from vsar.org "Pigpen was always surrounded by a cloud of dust.* No offense but so are we. Most of us are not surrounded by some visible aura of filth and stench (or so I hope), but by microscopic particles (referred to as raft particles) which are shed by the human body at a rate of 40,000 per minute.* They reside where they fall for a while, and about 50% stay airborne." Invisible skin cells shed that fast and are left behind, weather and environment can change scent conditions. Unless it was raining the next day, I believe a dog could pick up her scent easy.

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Were the scent dogs brought in by police or were they part of the family investigation? A lot of the 'supposed' clues that have come out of this case have come from the family run investigations. For instance that whole deal with the A-Frame house was pretty much completely brought to the table by Maura's family.

I'm not trying to say that the family is doing anything it shouldn't. But I do wonder at times if they are developing answers where there are no answers to be developed.
 
I’m curious if the initial accident in her fathers car caused a concussion or a slow brain bleed. It’s possible that adding alcohol to a head injury caused confusion or a possible blackout, thus leading to her 2nd accident. She seemed to be confused in thinking her car would make it that far up into the mountains. I know she packed up her dorm. Again, this leads me to wonder if she was confused in thinking the semester was over before it even began.

I have always believed she went back to Butch’s Home to calm down and never came out. I believe she had one, possibly two head injuries by this time and may have collapsed and died at Butch’s Home. Out of fear, she was buried and never seen again. Generally people don’t leave their things and lock the doors if they don’t plan on coming back later.


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I’m curious if the initial accident in her fathers car caused a concussion or a slow brain bleed. It’s possible that adding alcohol to a head injury caused confusion or a possible blackout, thus leading to her 2nd accident. She seemed to be confused in thinking her car would make it that far up into the mountains. I know she packed up her dorm. Again, this leads me to wonder if she was confused in thinking the semester was over before it even began.

I have always believed she went back to Butch’s Home to calm down and never came out. I believe she had one, possibly two head injuries by this time and may have collapsed and died at Butch’s Home. Out of fear, she was buried and never seen again. Generally people don’t leave their things and lock the doors if they don’t plan on coming back later.


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I think if she had a head injury of that magnitude family and friends, at the very least, would have noted something seemed "off" with her. I would entertain the idea that perhaps she could have sustained head trauma from her NH accident, but she wasn't described as bleeding or disoriented or anything of the usual signs of a head injury.

However, I do disagree with Butch having anything to do with this. Not only was he of poor health (I doubt he was capable of exerting himself that much) but also his wife and mother were living at the home at the time.

The extent of his involvement I think at the very most could possibly be not telling police everything he saw (ie: noticed someone picked up Maura, but was fearful of retaliation if he spoke of it) but even that is speculation and we have no proof at all.

I think the major factor here that dictated her choices and behavior after the accident were not from an injury, but rather from alcohol and panic.
 
Gotta love a guy who can speak for six and a half minutes, and not say anything.
 
Wow, his narcissism is incredible. Who the hell cares about what he thinks about the "police conspiracy." He knows no more about this case than any of us.

To be fair, he has been through a lot of bad **** just for saying that police may have been involved so I kinda understand where he's coming from.
 
When the Missing Maura Murray podcasters started including the likes of John Smith in their shows is when I started losing respect for what they were putting out there. I'm sure Smith fully believes his theory but the guy also seems half crazy. That's when I first started questioning how seriously I should take the Missing Maura Murray podcast.
 
The thing about guys like John and Renner is that they just seem to toss around theories and try to see what sticks.

John believes police may be involved yet seems to admit there's an abundance of shady people in the area, so I have no idea where he truly stands. Same with Renner who has seemingly entertained any plausible theory, ranging from her being alive to being deceased.

I think the bottom line is no one has any certainty as to what happened to Maura.

I do think John is genuinely seeking what is best for the Murray family, but unfortunately with all the dead ends, I think it's become frustrating for everyone and subsequently people start considering more outlandish scenarios, which may damage their credibility.
 
Anyone looking into a missing person case for this long has to be half crazy to some extent and that's not necessarily a bad thing. His "craziness" has helped bring some much needed attention to the case, if it wasn't for him the listeners would not have the amount of knowledge that they have now. Also, unlike some other people associated with this case, John Smith actually respects the Murray family and doesn't go around throwing baseless accusations or making disgusting insinuations.
 
Anyone looking into a missing person case for this long has to be half crazy to some extent and that's not necessarily a bad thing. His "craziness" has helped bring some much needed attention to the case, if it wasn't for him the listeners would not have the amount of knowledge that they have now. Also, unlike some other people associated with this case, John Smith actually respects the Murray family and doesn't go around throwing baseless accusations or making disgusting insinuations.

He might not do it towards the family but he also throws arguably baseless accusations at the police. He was all over the place on the Oxygen show.
 
His accusations are based on inacurracies and inconsistencies in the timeline and the police report, if there were no inacurracies or inconsistencies there would be no accusations to throw. There are documents that were produced the very first week Maura went missing and these documents are still being kept secret from the public. John asks tough questions and for that I respect him. Nobody will accuse the police for fun, certainly not someone who was a former cop like John Smith. Nobody is pushing the police cover-up theory for fun, if it's being pushed it's because there are legitimate questions and issues that have never been answered. Questions and issues that are still being ignored and swept under the rug over 14 years later. Questions and issues certain people like the ones behind the Oxygen show and the podcast like to pretend don't exist.
 
His accusations are based on inacurracies and inconsistencies in the timeline and the police report, if there were no inacurracies or inconsistencies there would be no accusations to throw. There are documents that were produced the very first week Maura went missing and these documents are still being kept secret from the public. John asks tough questions and for that I respect him. Nobody will accuse the police for fun, certainly not someone who was a former cop like John Smith. Nobody is pushing the police cover-up theory for fun, if it's being pushed it's because there are legitimate questions and issues that have never been answered. Questions and issues that are still being ignored and swept under the rug over 14 years later. Questions and issues certain people like the ones behind the Oxygen show and the podcast like to pretend don't exist.

I have no idea why John Smith is doing what he's doing. However, people have all sorts of motives for doing all sorts of things. John Smith himself may not even know why he is so emotionally involved.

What exactly are the inaccuracies in the police report? It's totally routine to keep some documents from the public, as frustrating as that is. That does not necessarily mean there is a conspiracy.

I have been following this case since it happened, and I can't think of a single piece of information that I know that I would not without John Smith.
 
Calling John Smith a "former cop" is being very gracious. He was on the department for three months and never made it out of his probationary period.
 
I have no idea why John Smith is doing what he's doing. However, people have all sorts of motives for doing all sorts of things. John Smith himself may not even know why he is so emotionally involved.

What exactly are the inaccuracies in the police report? It's totally routine to keep some documents from the public, as frustrating as that is. That does not necessarily mean there is a conspiracy.

I have been following this case since it happened, and I can't think of a single piece of information that I know that I would not without John Smith.

Some of the dispatch logs from the night of the disappearance from the Grafton County sheriff's department were subsequently redacted, there were also issues with the timeline with regards to when EMT arrived at the scene and why they were sent back. Also, it's still not clear who exactly was driving SUV 001 and why it was seen at the crash site that night by at least two credible witnesses. I could go on and on. If you have any questions, you should ask him directly, he is much more informed than I am. With that being said, the inaccuracies and inconsistencies I've highlighted above plus a whole bunch of other stuff are well documented. Why the podcast crew decided to do a 360 and totally ignore all of this when it started to stink is beyond me.
 
Some of the dispatch logs from the night of the disappearance from the Grafton County sheriff's department were subsequently redacted, there were also issues with the timeline with regards to when EMT arrived at the scene and why they were sent back. Also, it's still not clear who exactly was driving SUV 001 and why it was seen at the crash site that night by at least two credible witnesses. I could go on and on. If you have any questions, you should ask him directly, he is much more informed than I am. With that being said, the inaccuracies and inconsistencies I've highlighted above plus a whole bunch of other stuff are well documented. Why the podcast crew decided to do a 360 and totally ignore all of this when it started to stink is beyond me.

There is probably a good chance that the authorities just thought it was a drunk individual who crashed her car and chose to flee to escape any repercussions from the situation (which is probably exactly what happened but the problem was that that drunk individual never came back). You don't need an EMT for that. Also the whole SUV 001 thing is nothing but absurd speculating. I would imagine if the police think there might be a drunk individual in the area they do call for back up just so that person will be easier to control if they have a run in with them.
 
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