ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[rosemadderlake]

FB Luddite here... No account... Does anyone know the date of Jen's last FB entry?

Is her FB still up?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Check out @AlexandraArgyr1’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlexandraArgyr1/status/983804741091119105?s=09

Just signed. Pass it on.

 

[drama_farmer]

Who pays for sex offender registries? Not being snarky, I’m genuinely asking.

In some states, it looks like the sex offender under supervision pays at least some of the costs.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The call for a national child abuse registry will probably get a lot of support and a lot of signatures. Maybe someone could start a Go Fund Me page for it, as well. It seems like the protections already in place for children are continually and woefully under-funded. It's a laudable idea, of course, but the reality always seems to come down to the bottom line: who is willing to pay for it?

IMO

Well they have NamUs. Which might be a good blueprint. This would be a huge undertaking; county, state, federal level? Who legally has access? And what are the legal hurdles? Privacy hurdles? I mean part of the database is there for people who receive subsidies. And I guess main Q is why hasn't this be done? Any hurdles preventing it?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

We don't actually know that they didn't do things that helped the kids learn about their culture. We don't know what they did or not teach their children about their culture or heritage. Social media posts don't show everything, as we've repeatedly discussed.

As a "hippie" myself, I personally enjoy "hippie festivals" and "going out in nature" and I have many African American friends who do as well.

I don't feel that the issue here is what kind of festivals they attended but, rather, the abuse that the children suffered.

I have a feeling Jen and Sarah would have been posting to social media every detail of how they were "immersing the children in the culture of their ancestors" if they'd done so. They would have gotten even more social media love and attention.

 

[bears10]

In some states, it looks like the sex offender under supervision pays at least some of the costs.

Maybe the child abusers could fund such a database. Not to be a pessimist, but I feel like it would take a lot more than a database in many situations. In this particular case, I wish there was a system in place to flag parents convicted of abuse who then pull their children out of school.... and then move to another state where they don’t register their kids for homeschooling at all! It just seems like there are so many cracks for victims to fall through. I don’t have a solution by any means, but clearly there are holes that we need to fill so kids aren’t slipping through.

I can’t help but wonder how many victims are out there... look at the Turpins, how long it took to uncover that horror. The Hart’s... the moms were all up in there in terms of social media, exploiting their kids for attention (imo). It’s sad to think about how many victims may exist that we have no idea about.

 

[Zelda1010]

Michigan is working on a registry, Wyatt's Law, so there are some articles that talk pros and cons. Another article mentions a couple of states already have legislation.

Here is one: Is it worth $2.5M a year to know who abuses kids?

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...e-registry-proposal/99531754/?from=new-cookie

It looks like the bill did get sent through for full consideration, in MI, recently.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...-votes-create-child-abuse-registry/336421002/

Is the sex offender registry a national system or is it operated at the state level?

 

[drama_farmer]

Maybe the child abusers could fund such a database. Not to be a pessimist, but I feel like it would take a lot more than a database in many situations. In this particular case, I wish there was a system in place to flag parents convicted of abuse who then pull their children out of school.... and then move to another state where they don’t register their kids for homeschooling at all! It just seems like there are so many cracks for victims to fall through. I don’t have a solution by any means, but clearly there are holes that we need to fill so kids aren’t slipping through.

I can’t help but wonder how many victims are out there... look at the Turpins, how long it took to uncover that horror. The Hart’s... the moms were all up in there in terms of social media, exploiting their kids for attention (imo). It’s sad to think about how many victims may exist that we have no idea about.

I agree that there must be something that can be done. And, I wouldn't call you a pessimist, but a realist. It's complicated.

I asked my friend Google if there was a federal agency in charge of child protection, and here is what he gave me:
The Child Welfare Information Gateway.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/preventing/overview/federal-agencies/

 

[bluwaters]

It needs to be Federal so that no one can escape detection as the Harts did by moving from state to state.

 

[drama_farmer]

I haven't had a chance to review this, but it looks interesting.

Note: it is a pdf
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/xreporting.pdf

[FONT=&quot]Cross-Reporting Among Responders to Child Abuse and Neglect[/FONT]

Series Title	State Statutes
Author(s)	Child Welfare Information Gateway
Availability	View Download (PDF - 767KB)
Year Published	2016

[FONT=&quot]Discusses State laws that authorize cross-reporting and information sharing among the agencies that must respond to reports of suspected child abuse or neglect. Typically, reports are shared among social services agencies, law enforcement departments, and prosecutors' offices. Full-text excerpts of laws for all States and U.S. territories are included.
[/FONT]

 

[bears10]

Michigan is working on a registry, Wyatt's Law, so there are some articles that talk pros and cons. Another article mentions a couple of states already have legislation.

Here is one: Is it worth $2.5M a year to know who abuses kids?

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...e-registry-proposal/99531754/?from=new-cookie

It looks like the bill did get sent through for full consideration, in MI, recently.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...-votes-create-child-abuse-registry/336421002/

Is the sex offender registry a national system or is it operated at the state level?

$2.5 mil. A year is less than $1 per person, so imo yes it’s worth it.

My understanding is that the sex offender registry is so civilians can look up if there are sex offenders in their area. Imo, that’s not really what we immediately need for child abusers. Imo there needs to be a national database for authorities for child abusers. Because I dont think many people are going to search for which of their neighbors are convicted of abuse, unless it’s a situation that’s at the point where the police should be involved anyway. I feel like it’s far too easy for child abusers, once accused of abuse or once they think people are on to them, to up and leave to another state where no one knows their past.

It’s been a long day so to avoid speculation- I of course think there should be a national database for law enforcement to cross reference sex offenders as well.

 

[Talulah]

Maybe the child abusers could fund such a database. Not to be a pessimist, but I feel like it would take a lot more than a database in many situations. In this particular case, I wish there was a system in place to flag parents convicted of abuse who then pull their children out of school.... and then move to another state where they don’t register their kids for homeschooling at all! It just seems like there are so many cracks for victims to fall through. I don’t have a solution by any means, but clearly there are holes that we need to fill so kids aren’t slipping through.

I can’t help but wonder how many victims are out there... look at the Turpins, how long it took to uncover that horror. The Hart’s... the moms were all up in there in terms of social media, exploiting their kids for attention (imo). It’s sad to think about how many victims may exist that we have no idea about.

I know one thing, not many people are going to miss the opportunity to claim their children on their taxes, especially people with large families. The Sovereign Citizen people, are one such group that doesn't register their children, but most people will. It would still be a huge expense and effort, but we do have the ability to identify many children who should be in school or registered for home school via tax returns.

Edit: I don't know if any of you followed the Alecia Pennington case, but that was some crazy stuff. She ran away from her parent's home at 19 and found that her birth was never registered and she didn't legally exist.

 

[MomGN2BMD]

Michigan is working on a registry, Wyatt's Law, so there are some articles that talk pros and cons. Another article mentions a couple of states already have legislation.

Here is one: Is it worth $2.5M a year to know who abuses kids?

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...e-registry-proposal/99531754/?from=new-cookie

It looks like the bill did get sent through for full consideration, in MI, recently.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...-votes-create-child-abuse-registry/336421002/

Is the sex offender registry a national system or is it operated at the state level?

There is a national sex offender registry, has been since after Dru Sjodin's mother petitioned for one after Dru was kidnapped, raped, and murdered by a level III sex offender recently released just across state lines from Grand Forks, ND where she was attending college.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[bears10]

I know one thing, not many people are going to miss the opportunity to claim their children on their taxes, especially people with large families. The Sovereign Citizen people, are one such group that doesn't register their children, but most people will. It would still be a huge expense and effort, but we do have the ability to identify many children who should be in school or registered for home school via tax returns.

I feel like that’s a simplistic view of things. No offense meant.

Who is going to flag such situations? The Hart’s didn’t register their kids in school when they moved to the west coast. The IRS isn’t looking for kids who aren’t registered in school. They are looking for people who owe money due to inaccurate returns or no returns at all. I typed and deleted a lot, but my professional and personal experiences with the IRS.... they aren’t CPS and they aren’t paid to connect the dots about who’s in school and who’s not. JMO

 

[Talulah]

I feel like that’s a simplistic view of things. No offense meant.

Who is going to flag such situations? The Hart’s didn’t register their kids in school when they moved to the west coast. The IRS isn’t looking for kids who aren’t registered in school. They are looking for people who owe money due to inaccurate returns or no returns at all. I typed and deleted a lot, but my professional and personal experiences with the IRS.... they aren’t CPS and they aren’t paid to connect the dots about who’s in school and who’s not. JMO

I was considering that. Perhaps a carrot approach. Prove your children are enrolled in school (or registered as being homeschooled) to get the tax credit. A system was set up with the ACA to prove people had credible insurance coverage. The letter would have to come from a state agency. Right now all you have to do is submit a SSN, right? The actual aim of this would be to get more people to register their children, leading to more oversight and interventions. Kind of like how many people wouldn't bother to get their children vaccinated if the schools didn't require it.

 

[Zelda1010]

There is a national sex offender registry, has been since after Dru Sjodin's mother petitioned for one after Dru was kidnapped, raped, and murdered by a level III sex offender recently released just across state lines from Grand Forks, ND where she was attending college.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I should've just looked it up, I suppose. You are right, I've found the NSOPW, in connection with Dru. It is perplexing that LE, CPS etc don't already have this information available to share and access freely and easily behind the scenes. I don't know how I feel about the public databases myself. Regardless, it does look like the registries themselves are run/financed at the state level if I'm understanding this correctly.

NSOPW is the only U.S. government Website that links public state, territorial, and tribal sex offender registries from one national search site. Parents, employers, and other concerned residents can utilize the Website’s search tool to identify location information on sex offenders residing, working, and attending school not only in their own neighborhoods but in other nearby states and communities. In addition, the Website provides visitors with information about sexual abuse and how to protect themselves and loved ones from potential victimization.

https://www.nsopw.gov/en/home/about?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

[bears10]

I was considering that. Perhaps a carrot approach. Prove your children are enrolled in school (or registered as being homeschooled) to get the tax credit. A system was set up with the ACA to prove people had credible insurance coverage. The letter would have to come from a state agency. Right now all you have to do is submit a SSN, right? The actual aim of this would be to get more people to register their children, leading to more oversight and interventions. Kind of like how many people wouldn't bother to get their children vaccinated if the schools didn't require it.

But the turpins could “prove” homeschooling, and I’m sure the Hart’s could too. I just don’t think the IRS is the appropriate agency to deal with or detect such situations. Imo, in the Hart case, the school admin that saw the kids get pulled our of school once Sarah was sentenced, should be way more inclined to notice and report such a situation.

 

[MomGN2BMD]

I should've just looked it up, I suppose. You are right, I've found the NSOPW, in connection with Dru. It is perplexing that LE, CPS etc don't already have this information available to share and access freely and easily behind the scenes. I don't know how I feel about the public databases myself. Regardless, it does look like the registries themselves are run/financed at the state level if I'm understanding this correctly.

NSOPW is the only U.S. government Website that links public state, territorial, and tribal sex offender registries from one national search site. Parents, employers, and other concerned residents can utilize the Website’s search tool to identify location information on sex offenders residing, working, and attending school not only in their own neighborhoods but in other nearby states and communities. In addition, the Website provides visitors with information about sexual abuse and how to protect themselves and loved ones from potential victimization.

https://www.nsopw.gov/en/home/about?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

I think it's nice we can all rely on the varying knowledge bases of other members here. I would've asked the same vs looking up for this kind of thing, that's what discussion is right? I only knew this offhand because I went to college with Dru and participated in the volunteer searches after she was kidnapped, the case and aftermath are forever imprinted upon me.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Zelda1010]

According to this report (based on 911 records), the next door neighbours actually called the police for a welfare check, three month after the initial incident took place when the little girl knocked their door asking for help or shelter.
Man called 911 concerned about Hart family, but Clark County deputies decided against welfare check
http://www.columbian.com/news/2018/...ounty-deputies-decided-against-welfare-check/

Audio clip of March-26 call regarding the Hart family, after the third attempt by CPS to check on them inside their Washington house:
http://www.kptv.com/story/37916936/washington-911-call-reveals-how-cps-tried-contacting-hart-family
The investigator thinks they were inside at least the first time he tried knocking the door: "Different cars have been moving in and out, I noticed, so I feel like someone is there...."

Things move fast, I thought these might be helpful to bring forward.

(I'm in over my head in registry thoughts now, I'm afraid.)

 

[Talulah]

But the turpins could “prove” homeschooling, and I’m sure the Hart’s could too. I just don’t think the IRS is the appropriate agency to deal with or detect such situations. Imo, in the Hart case, the school admin that saw the kids get pulled our of school once Sarah was sentenced, should be way more inclined to notice and report such a situation.

Only if it's illegal, sadly. Maybe we should focus on ideas about laws to prevent people convicted of child abuse from homeschooling their children, along with a national child abuse registry.

I was originally mainly thinking of databases of known children to search if children went off the grid. I see your point though.