CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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The DeKalbs asked Devonte if he was abused and he said,” Sometimes”.

I wonder how he knew what abuse is or what he considered abuse. He certainly was not told of it by his parents and I doubt if there were any books about it in the home.

Beating with a belt seems to be something they liked to do.

I wonder what the punishment was for Hannah for running away. I wonder if Devonte got punishment for CPS coming.

I wonder how he escaped unnoticed.
 
OMG, that is one horrible story about 'Lee', the first foster-child of the Hart family. Wow. How cruel. :(

A week before the Texas children were due to arrive, the Harts dropped Lee off for a therapist appointment. Sitting her down, the therapist broke the news: Jen and Sarah would not be coming back to get her. Lee was going to live with a new family, starting immediately.

It’s not your fault, she recalled the therapist telling her. The Harts were just not a good fit.
And so, another couple picked her up and brought her home. All her belongings were already there.
She felt abandoned.
“I remember being devastated,” she said.

Laurie Bonds, director of Social Services for Douglas County, where Alexandria is located, said, “That wouldn’t probably be best practice.” She was speaking, generally, about a child being told about a move in this abrupt way, and not about Lee’s case specifically, about which she said she couldn’t comment. “We certainly try to prepare children.”

“They didn’t even say goodbye,” Lee’s mom remembered.

Lee never heard from them again.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...rtbreak-though-not-the-way-some-might-expect/
 
The DeKalbs asked Devonte if he was abused and he said,” Sometimes”.

I wonder how he knew what abuse is or what he considered abuse. He certainly was not told of it by his parents and I doubt if there were any books about it in the home.

Beating with a belt seems to be something they liked to do.

I wonder what the punishment was for Hannah for running away. I wonder if Devonte got punishment for CPS coming.

I wonder how he escaped unnoticed.

Yes, lots of things to wonder about, for sure.
 
People have suggested that Sarah was the controlling, abusive one.. but from what I can gather, it seems more like Jennifer was in that role. She was the more outgoing one, made the SM posts, was said to be the abuser of Abigail according to Abigail even though Sarah took the charges for it, was the one that was home raising/educating the kids all the time, seems to have been the one that the neighbors had spats with regarding driveway access, and wasn't Jennifer also the one who was driving the vehicle when it went off the cliff?
 
The DeKalbs asked Devonte if he was abused and he said,” Sometimes”.

I wonder how he knew what abuse is or what he considered abuse. He certainly was not told of it by his parents and I doubt if there were any books about it in the home.

Beating with a belt seems to be something they liked to do.

I wonder what the punishment was for Hannah for running away. I wonder if Devonte got punishment for CPS coming.

I wonder how he escaped unnoticed.

I wonder if all of the kids received punishment/blame for CPS coming to the door in regard to the food issue.. because Devonte was said to be collecting boxes of it for all of them, not just himself. Hate to say it, but almost seems like the 'trip' was the punishment to all.

Also, maybe the picture just doesn't show enough, but in the photo which shows Jennifer purchasing food while in CA before the event, there are only a limited number of bananas showing. If there were 8 people in the family, it seems like very little, and only less than 8 bananas.

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http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/devonte_hart_family_crash_dece.html
 

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It is clear from this older foster daughter's account that the Harts really did see her and all the other kids as items. Oh, the ones we special ordered are in, take this one back to the store.

It's bizarre that they were so intolerant of Lee being a tomboy. You would think lesbian women would be more understanding of that, since lots of lesbians receive flack for dressing for comfort instead of style and so forth. I am wondering if they considered themselves apart from or superior to other gay people too, though.

Personally, it doesn't sound bizarre to me. Maybe they, as a lesbian couple, feared that people would think that they were forcing the girl to dress tomboy-ish. It was not okay for them to pressure her to do something that she wasn't comfortable with, like it isn't okay, in my opinion, for many many many parents to refuse to buy their daughters clothes that are traditionally made for boys and force their daughters to wear clothes that are traditionally made for girls. The "makeover" thing doesn't seem terrible to me but they should have been more sensitive and just help the girl find something that made her feel comfortable and happy. Many tomboy-ish girls do wear makeup, I think it was the aproach that should have been different. The fact that they abandoned that girl as soon as they were close to adopt the first set of siblings is what bothers and worries me.

Our family is similar as well, vegetarians, transracially adoptive, festival goers, fost/adopt etc. I feel so heart broken for these beautiful children and (I know this will get me in hot water) also heartbroken for mothers who felt a cliff dive was their only recourse. And personally I feel this case has given people an example to use when stating that many of the things our family is...is wrong...and "here's why". Somehow it all feels very personal...

I understand where you're coming from. Something had to be very very very wrong with them to abuse those kids and to murder them. They should have asked for help, they should have tried to work things out. Nothing justifies what they did though. I feel sorry for Jen and Sarah's families, it must be really hard to deal with this situation.

I'll tread lightly here, since there's no concrete evidence yet that gender-based jealousy was an issue. Strictly IMO, a lot of the dynamics that are being reported as fact do make that a logical possibility.

There's this picture from Jen's Facebook page, dated to August 2017, showing Jeremiah, Markis, and Ciera/Sierra. Even though they all look like they might still be underweight, they all look generally healthy. It's about the healthiest Markis looks in any of Jen's photos (no visible overbite, very low facial swelling). Jeremiah actually has some age-appropriate muscle tone. Sierra's hair is fixed up and it even looks like her eyebrows are shaped, so someone in the family (likely Sierra herself) felt a sense of pride in her appearance.

It must have been evident that all of them were gorgeous children who were going to be stunning adults. Most parents would be a little nervous about that. And if (*if*) there was an existing jealousy or panic about them aging out of an imagined family fantasy into young adulthood, the kids' apparent maturity at the end of last year *may*
have aggravated that.

It also seems to me that Sierra is actually the right height for her age here. Markis was about the same height as Jen and Sarah in the March 2016 photo from the Bernie Sanders rally. Ciera looks to be about 8"-10" shorter than Markis in this photo, which was taken 17 months later. Even assuming that Markis didn't grow at all between the two photos, that would put Sierra at between 4'8" and 4'10" which is at the low end of normal height for a 12-year-old girl. Despite any malnutrition/withholding of food that was taking place, the kids were still growing up.

Also noted, reference to blackberries in the yard.

<modsnip>

Thank you for sharing the post, I can't see anything on her Facebook account. From that post it seems like Markis didn't really like to get his picture taken which doesn't surprise me, he was a young man, when kids get to a certain age, parents taking their picture and posting it on social media is no longer fun. That might explain why he wasn't in many pictures and videos. Or maybe it was just an excuse, who knows?
 
Personally, it doesn't sound bizarre to me. Maybe they, as a lesbian couple, feared that people would think that they were forcing the girl to dress tomboy-ish. It was not okay for them to pressure her to do something that she wasn't comfortable with, like it isn't okay, in my opinion, for many many many parents to refuse to buy their daughters clothes that are traditionally made for boys and force their daughters to wear clothes that are traditionally made for girls. The "makeover" thing doesn't seem terrible to me but they should have been more sensitive and just help the girl find something that made her feel comfortable and happy. Many tomboy-ish girls do wear makeup, I think it was the aproach that should have been different. The fact that they abandoned that girl as soon as they were close to adopt the first set of siblings is what bothers and worries me.



I understand where you're coming from. Something had to be very very very wrong with them to abuse those kids and to murder them. They should have asked for help, they should have tried to work things out. Nothing justifies what they did though. I feel sorry for Jen and Sarah's families, it must be really hard to deal with this situation.



Thank you for sharing the post, I can't see anything on her Facebook account. From that post it seems like Markis didn't really like to get his picture taken which doesn't surprise me, he was a young man, when kids get to a certain age, parents taking their picture and posting it on social media is no longer fun. That might explain why he wasn't in many pictures and videos. Or maybe it was just an excuse, who knows?

That's a good point. There's also the possibility (as others have mentioned in the previous threads) that the facial swelling that Markis experienced was worse at some times than at others. I'm not inclined to take anything Jen wrote literally, based on (I think this has been established?) her tendency to exaggerate stories and make things up.

There was also a post in the last thread from a member who noticed a bit of touching up in a few of Jen's photos beyond normal teeth-whitening and blemish coverage. If the swelling that Markis experienced was less pronounced when this picture was taken, it's sort of a toss-up as to whether Markis' "willingness" to have his photo taken was the result of a teenager feeling less self-conscious than usual, or Jen actually being willing to put him front and center in a photo and making up a story as to why that was unusual.

Then there's also the possibility that Markis' facial swelling (from another discussion in the previous thread) *may* have been related to parotid gland swelling, which *may* have been the result of malnourishment from food being withheld. In that case, the times when his face was less swollen *might* have correlated with times when food wasn't being withheld from him as punishment, and he wasn't being isolated from the rest of the family/put in the background.

One thing that gives me pause from this photo itself is that there *seems* (IMO) to have been a significant adjustment in the contrasting, so it's hard to tell how much of the "underweight" appearance of the kids was in the raw photo. Jeremiah's arms and Sierra's collarbones would suggest they are pretty thin, if that's the result of natural light. It's also not clear if some touching up was done to their faces to make them look healthier or reduce the appearance of swelling. I see some areas that look a tad "off," but this is a copy of a copy of a copy of the original, so I'm not trusting my perception all that much either.
 
So what was the motivation for adopting? Obviously, they were able to pretend care dor the foster teen and then bam! Finished.

Why adopt? Why not just foster? There is money in fostering and the kids don’t stay.

Remember Hannah got a beating for having a penny. And Jen thought Lee was being a brat about the football. Then Sarah was ticked because one of the kids got a food gift from someone at the festival .

What kind of petty weirdness is all of that?

I would imagine that adoption allows for more control over the situation and more opportunities to manipulate without outside interference?


IMO
 
From the Seattle Times article about the foster kid;

"In later years, neighbors in Oregon and Washington considered the Harts to be protective of their privacy. Some have wondered if their children were kept isolated, aside from the music festivals, rallies and outdoor activities they all did together.

Lee&#8217;s time with the couple perhaps contained hints of that.


&#8220;I remember getting upset at times because I couldn&#8217;t leave the house if it wasn&#8217;t to work or school,&#8221; she said. She worked at Subway, after the Harts had pushed her to get a job to learn responsibility.

When she asked the couple if she could see friends, she said, &#8220;It was always a no.&#8221; She had homework or chores to do. &#8220;If I wasn&#8217;t doing anything with them, I was home,&#8221; Lee said."


Jen and Sarah had warped views when it came to socialization and the importance of building relationships outside of the family.
 
******
It's bizarre that they were so intolerant of Lee being a tomboy. You would think lesbian women would be more understanding of that, since lots of lesbians receive flack for dressing for comfort instead of style and so forth. I am wondering if they considered themselves apart from or superior to other gay people too, though.

You&#8217;re imagining that all lesbians think alike? That since some lesbians dress for comfort and not for style, this is a lesbian thing that might be a factor in understanding this household? That lesbians have a special tolerance and or open-ness for tomboys? And lesbians have may have cause for being uncomfortable about the clothes thing because women might logically dwell on looking stylish?

Where to begin.....how&#8217;s this:

Most folks I know dress for comfort rather than style. Kids and adults. Men and women. Every ethnicity. Regardless of orientation.

What is way more striking in the family photos is the layering and bagginess of tops and the hats. Clothes as costumes. This is clothing that conceals your body and who you are.
 
The post about Hannahs teeth from Jens facebook. She claims Hannah was running around and fell over her own feet in the house. I will say this..having a little boy of my own (hes 9) they do tend to do this not intentionally but I know with mine at times he is being clumsy and just does not watch where he is going. It was worse when he was younger but even now he does this sometimes. Kids often when they get too excited dont pay attention so I would be half tempted to believe this store IF I didnt know better. Jen goes on to say Hannah was at the dentist this is the first lie she tells..we cant really assume how it happened was a lie because we weren't there and with this case I'm done assuming things but Jen did lie about Hannah being to the dentist or she did lie to the Dekalbs. Jen writes on fb how Hannahs at the dentist so yhey can see what can be done, she told the Dekalbs Hannah didnt want anything done about her teeth so which is the truth we may never know but Hannah in pictures speaks volumes. She is always looking so self concious with the tight lip smile then she goes on to say Hannah had to have the teeth removed at the dentist (she said Hannah fell at home and thats how the tooth came out regardless her photo of the tooth looks like Jen pulled it out) here comes the worst part a few hours later she says hannahs home resting and that she had to have the teeth removed and that shes gonna have no front teeth for a few WEEKS and that after that shed have a retainer with fake front teeth until she's 17. I highly doubt any of this was true or even happened. If it did I think the most that happened was they took Hannah to the dentist and never took her back. <modsnip>

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
Nectarines grow in Washington? I had no idea. JMO
 
I know this will not be a popular opinion, because it's become "necessary" to demonize Sarah and Jen Hart's every move, every word, every picture, every perceived or ascribed motivation. They are now morphed from "saviors" and role models, into evil personified. I sure don't think that's the truth, either way. They were neither saviors and role models, nor evil personified, IMO. But that won't play well for most people, because it seems necessary to box them in as "all evil, all the time" so we can hate them *more* for driving off a cliff with the kids, who were isolated and exquisitely vulnerable.

To be sure, I think they were highly dysfunctional women who may have been "fine" together alone (before kids), but devolved into chaotic dysfunction as parents of far too many adopted kids with horrific and extremely difficult backgrounds. To me, that is the issue that precipitated the dysfunctional and chaotic years that ended up with Jen driving off the cliff. There was far too much willingness by adoption authorities to allow them to adopt SO MANY kids from such awful backgrounds, at their young ages--20s-- with limited life experience.

Frankly, the first three were WAY too many for Jen and Sarah, IMO. They were NOT good candidates for adopting children from that kind of background-- and I don't need a social work degree to make that observation. Adopting one child with that kind of background would have been about right (if at all), for 2 women who were far too young to have much life experience in their 20s, and NO parenting experience at all. Keep in mind that at their age, they would not have been eligible for international adoption at all in their 20s through most accredited, legitimate avenues. (And not just because they were lesbians-- but because of their age, length of marriage, lack of prior parenting experience, and apparently meager financial situation.) They did not appear to be open to using multiple professional resources to help the kids, and do not appear to have sought advice in parenting these kids from very difficlut backgrounds. They appear to be "winging it" with their ideas about what constitutes healthy family life, enforced isolation, "homeschooling" (we have no idea if, or to what extent they did any actual schooling beyond reading pleasure books), and their ideas about socialization and friendships (festivals, rallies, and protests), as well as their ideas about effective discipline and encouragement. Clearly, we can infer that Jen and Sarah did not appear to encourage or nurture any of the kids as individuals (by their report, as well as their advocates and critics), but related to the kids mostly as a group. (As they were taught to as teachers in their educational programs, IMO, which seems to be the only experience with kids that they had before the first foster child.)

I personally don't think they were "all evil, all the time". Nor do I believe hyperbole such as that they were "starving" the kids. I do believe they probably withheld, or controlled food choices and volume, which all parents do to some extent. I also believe they may have used food withholding as a "punishment"-- but without knowing WHAT they may have withheld, or when, or how long, I cannot buy into the fervor that they were "starving" the children. There is no evidence, none at all, that indicates "starving" children. Many, many, many adopted kids have "food issues", whether or not they had actual food insecurity at any point in their lives. Many, if not most, adopted kids from foster care or institutions (overseas) also have some degree of malnourishment, affecting their global development.

I don't believe the "eating garbage/ eating out of the garbage" story as it has been relayed by Jen about foster child "Lee". Nor do I fully believe Lee's story in the Seattle Times as "complete truth". Lee's story is decidedly one-sided, designed to present Lee herself, by her own words, in her own best image-- and that means she presented the story as idyllic, and herself in "full control" of her "out of control" behavior (she just called up the social worker and checked herself into foster care, like checking into a hotel on a vacation). Then everything was rosy and perfect, right up until evil Sarah and Jen "dumped" her at a "therapy" appointment. Just nothing at all sounds reasonable, plausible, or fully truthful about how that played out, IMO.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...rtbreak-though-not-the-way-some-might-expect/

As an example of the "eating out of the garbage"-- that could be viewed/ slanted/ presented in both an innocous way, as well as a pathological way, depending on the reality of the situation. For example, last week I threw away a bag of chips that still had a handful left at the bottom of the bag, but had been open a while. In my estimation, it was stale, and beyond it's best flavor. One of my kids pulled open the trash compartment in the kitchen, saw the bag, and said "mom-- those are still good, and we don't have any more chips right now!" Whereupon she retrieved the bag and ate them. We were both laughing. She happens to be adopted. She is also quite thin. Also happens to have a very healthy appetite, and eats healthy food most kids wouldn't eat (tofu and veggies for breakfast regularly).

So if one wanted to villainize me as a bad parent, and my teen as dysfunctional about food because she's adopted, one could say I wasn't feeding her enough calories, was "withholding food" because I didn't have any more chips in the house, and she is too thin, she was "starving", and "eating out of the garbage." Or a reasonable person would have laughed that a teenager with an healthy appetite and desire for junk food rescued a half empty bag of stale chips out of the trash, and went on to eat a healthy dinner.

See how that works? Perspective is everything.

Yes, Jen Hart definitely appears to have intentionally driven off a cliff with the kids in the car, after getting yet another visit from CPS. I don't think that means she and Sarah beat and starved the kids all the time. For whatever reason, they were prone to circle their wagons and isolate themselves and the kids to cope, rather than reaching out for help, and allowing the kids to grow and develop friendships and interests outside of the family. Their frustration at containing the ever growing, and very needy teens (psychologically, socially, and developmentally) created a perfect storm where Jen (and possibly Sarah) could not admit "failure" and reach out and accept help. So they chose to drive off a cliff instead. I actually do not believe they ever "hated" the kids-- they simply had no idea how to REALLY connect to them as wounded children with deep needs, and how to parent them. They knew how to relate to them as a group, as a teacher would do, and to take them on field trips. They had a "savior" mentality, IMO, and co-used the kids to massage and groom their own image on social media. They "shared" their hobbies and passions for politics and social justice with the kids, who were a captive audience who could not refuse or opt out of these ideas and opinions-- and had no skills or tools to voice any different ideas, IMO. IMO, what is crystal clear from all we have learned is that Jen and Sarah did not know how to PARENT individuals who came from very troubled backgrounds. That intense and private frustration, and and equally intense need to save face, IMO, is what led to Jen driving off the cliff. Not "evilness".
 
The only situations where people sympathize with a parent who has murdered their child involve either adopted children or children who are labeled special needs.
 
From the Seattle Times article about the foster kid;

"In later years, neighbors in Oregon and Washington considered the Harts to be protective of their privacy. Some have wondered if their children were kept isolated, aside from the music festivals, rallies and outdoor activities they all did together.

Lee&#8217;s time with the couple perhaps contained hints of that.


&#8220;I remember getting upset at times because I couldn&#8217;t leave the house if it wasn&#8217;t to work or school,&#8221; she said. She worked at Subway, after the Harts had pushed her to get a job to learn responsibility.

When she asked the couple if she could see friends, she said, &#8220;It was always a no.&#8221; She had homework or chores to do. &#8220;If I wasn&#8217;t doing anything with them, I was home,&#8221; Lee said."


Jen and Sarah had warped views when it came to socialization and the importance of building relationships outside of the family.

BBM. Isn't it even remotely possible that the "friends" Lee wanted to go and hang out with were not a good influence? Or were restricted by request of the court, or social workers?
It's more than possible that a parenting plan was in place, outlining curfews, allowable activities outside the home, people Lee was allowed to spend time with and others she was not allowed to spend time with.

Isn't it possible that separating Lee from being allowed to have unsupervised free time with some of these "friends" was a healthy break from influences that were encouraging Lee to be "difficult to handle"?

Do we know if Lee was restricted from any and all "friends" including any NEW friends? Was she allowed to go to the library? Shopping accompanied by Jen or Sarah? Movies with friends, chaperoned? This teen, by her own admission, needed structure and guidance. She wasn't in foster care because she had a happy home life with bio mom, with effective and safe parenting.

I don't think we can infer that Lee is telling the complete truth, or that Jen and Sarah Hart were "bad" or "evil" for restricting her from seeing certain people. We have NO idea what the real social services situation was for "Lee" beyond only HER report to a sympathetic reporter who desperately wants to write a story about the "private" experience in the Hart home-- and no one wants to present the Harts in any light except to pile on and present them as pure evil, all the time.
 
I know this will not be a popular opinion, because it's become "necessary" to demonize Sarah and Jen Hart's every move, every word, every picture, every perceived or ascribed motivation. They are now morphed from "saviors" and role models, into evil personified. I sure don't think that's the truth, either way. They were neither saviors and role models, nor evil personified, IMO. But that won't play well for most people, because it seems necessary to box them in as "all evil, all the time" so we can hate them *more* for driving off a cliff with the kids, who were isolated and exquisitely vulnerable.

To be sure, I think they were highly dysfunctional women who may have been "fine" together alone (before kids), but devolved into chaotic dysfunction as parents of far too many adopted kids with horrific and extremely difficult backgrounds. To me, that is the issue that precipitated the dysfunctional and chaotic years that ended up with Jen driving off the cliff. There was far too much willingness by adoption authorities to allow them to adopt SO MANY kids from such awful backgrounds, at their young ages--20s-- with limited life experience.

Frankly, the first three were WAY too many for Jen and Sarah, IMO. They were NOT good candidates for adopting children from that kind of background-- and I don't need a social work degree to make that observation. Adopting one child with that kind of background would have been about right (if at all), for 2 women who were far too young to have much life experience in their 20s, and NO parenting experience at all. Keep in mind that at their age, they would not have been eligible for international adoption at all in their 20s through most accredited, legitimate avenues. (And not just because they were lesbians-- but because of their age, length of marriage, lack of prior parenting experience, and apparently meager financial situation.) They did not appear to be open to using multiple professional resources to help the kids, and do not appear to have sought advice in parenting these kids from very difficlut backgrounds. They appear to be "winging it" with their ideas about what constitutes healthy family life, enforced isolation, "homeschooling" (we have no idea if, or to what extent they did any actual schooling beyond reading pleasure books), and their ideas about socialization and friendships (festivals, rallies, and protests), as well as their ideas about effective discipline and encouragement. Clearly, we can infer that Jen and Sarah did not appear to encourage or nurture any of the kids as individuals (by their report, as well as their advocates and critics), but related to the kids mostly as a group. (As they were taught to as teachers in their educational programs, IMO, which seems to be the only experience with kids that they had before the first foster child.)

I personally don't think they were "all evil, all the time". Nor do I believe hyperbole such as that they were "starving" the kids. I do believe they probably withheld, or controlled food choices and volume, which all parents do to some extent. I also believe they may have used food withholding as a "punishment"-- but without knowing WHAT they may have withheld, or when, or how long, I cannot buy into the fervor that they were "starving" the children. There is no evidence, none at all, that indicates "starving" children. Many, many, many adopted kids have "food issues", whether or not they had actual food insecurity at any point in their lives. Many, if not most, adopted kids from foster care or institutions (overseas) also have some degree of malnourishment, affecting their global development.

I don't believe the "eating garbage/ eating out of the garbage" story as it has been relayed by Jen about foster child "Lee". Nor do I fully believe Lee's story in the Seattle Times as "complete truth". Lee's story is decidedly one-sided, designed to present Lee herself, by her own words, in her own best image-- and that means she presented the story as idyllic, and herself in "full control" of her "out of control" behavior (she just called up the social worker and checked herself into foster care, like checking into a hotel on a vacation). Then everything was rosy and perfect, right up until evil Sarah and Jen "dumped" her at a "therapy" appointment. Just nothing at all sounds reasonable, plausible, or fully truthful about how that played out, IMO.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...rtbreak-though-not-the-way-some-might-expect/

As an example of the "eating out of the garbage"-- that could be viewed/ slanted/ presented in both an innocous way, as well as a pathological way, depending on the reality of the situation. For example, last week I threw away a bag of chips that still had a handful left at the bottom of the bag, but had been open a while. In my estimation, it was stale, and beyond it's best flavor. One of my kids pulled open the trash compartment in the kitchen, saw the bag, and said "mom-- those are still good, and we don't have any more chips right now!" Whereupon she retrieved the bag and ate them. We were both laughing. She happens to be adopted. She is also quite thin. Also happens to have a very healthy appetite, and eats healthy food most kids wouldn't eat (tofu and veggies for breakfast regularly).

So if one wanted to villainize me as a bad parent, and my teen as dysfunctional about food because she's adopted, one could say I wasn't feeding her enough calories, was "withholding food" because I didn't have any more chips in the house, and she is too thin, she was "starving", and "eating out of the garbage." Or a reasonable person would have laughed that a teenager with an healthy appetite and desire for junk food rescued a half empty bag of stale chips out of the trash, and went on to eat a healthy dinner.

See how that works? Perspective is everything.

Yes, Jen Hart definitely appears to have intentionally driven off a cliff with the kids in the car, after getting yet another visit from CPS. I don't think that means she and Sarah beat and starved the kids all the time. For whatever reason, they were prone to circle their wagons and isolate themselves and the kids to cope, rather than reaching out for help, and allowing the kids to grow and develop friendships and interests outside of the family. Their frustration at containing the ever growing, and very needy teens (psychologically, socially, and developmentally) created a perfect storm where Jen (and possibly Sarah) could not admit "failure" and reach out and accept help. So they chose to drive off a cliff instead. I actually do not believe they ever "hated" the kids-- they simply had no idea how to REALLY connect to them as wounded children with deep needs, and how to parent them. They knew how to relate to them as a group, as a teacher would do, and to take them on field trips. They had a "savior" mentality, IMO, and co-used the kids to massage and groom their own image on social media. They "shared" their hobbies and passions for politics and social justice with the kids, who were a captive audience who could not refuse or opt out of these ideas and opinions-- and had no skills or tools to voice any different ideas, IMO. IMO, what is crystal clear from all we have learned is that Jen and Sarah did not know how to PARENT individuals who came from very troubled backgrounds. That intense and private frustration, and and equally intense need to save face, IMO, is what led to Jen driving off the cliff. Not "evilness".

I feel that this post sets aside race, class, privilege, historical injustices, and more.

"Far too much willingness by adoption authorities to let them adopt..." internalized and interpersonal oppression exists...

This was not dysfunction that arose through difficult parenting. This was dormant evil that had an opportunity to shine under more opportune circumstances due to the failing systems and attitudes present in today's world. These children were younger and of minority children/nonwhite background.

I think "Lee" was sent away because they had other intentions in mind. Behavior like this doesn't come out of the blue or from frustration. I don't think it's necessary to look for ways to demonize them because they left a trail... and the more we learn the more we can see that it's all fitting together.


IMO
 
I think it’s pretty safe to say the Hart women brought out the worst in each other.

I've been picturing Jen as NPD and Sarah more BPD.

I found this article that talks about toxic personality pairings and gives some other examples to consider. I don't want to quote too much here, I thought the obsessive/histrionic fits surprisingly well.

The “dance” between two personality disorders: a delicate relationship balance
http://antrodichirone.com/index.php...ty-disorders-a-delicate-relationship-balance/
Someone suffering from a personality disorder could feel attraction towards someone with an opposite and complementary personality structure. Scientific literature hasn’t investigated this topic much, but lots of clinicians found it regularly, especially in these three dyads: obsessive-compulsive with histrionic, narcissistic with dependent and narcissistic with borderline.

The most important characteristics of these disorders are the following:

The obsessive-compulsive person is characterized by need to control, perfectionism and emotional inibition;
The histrionic individual is seductive and has an excessive and drammatic affectivity;
The narcissist shows lack of empaty, grandiosity and arrogant attitude;
The dependent person is unable to make decisions without the other person and can’t be without him/her;
The borderline fears abandonment, is emotionally unstable, experiences feelings of emptiness and rage and is often impulsive.

<snip>
[obsessive/histrionic]
However, this match doesn’t last long. After a while, one of the partners will feel threatened and will become defensive; the partner’s once fascinating qualities will be seen negatively. The histrionic woman won’t see him anymore as stable, trustworthy and organized, but as weak, cowardly, domineering and inflexible. The obsessive man won’t see her anymore as a free spirit, but as a frivolous, carefree and reckless spendthrift. Trust begins to shake. She wants him to show emotional reactions, so she will try to provoke him, but showing affection is not natural for an obsessive man. Consequently, she will assume he doesn’t care about her and she will experience feelings of failure and abandonment. She could attack him verbally, cheat on him or even try to commit suicide. His reactions to this climax will probably be passive-aggressive: he will shut down emotionally, while feeling an inexpressible anger at the same time. He will start to feel unloved too, believing his partner only stays in the relationship because of his money or because she is afraid to leave him.
 
The only situations where people sympathize with a parent who has murdered their child involve either adopted children or children who are labeled special needs.

Speaking only for myself, I certainly don't sympathize with Jen and Sarah.

I don't empathize with them, either. FWIW. Jen drove off a cliff. She murdered these kids, unquestionably. IDK if Sarah was complicit, or not. But I don't think Jen sat around and plotted to abuse and kill the kids for days, weeks, months, or years on end. At the end, I think it was an impulsive decision to drive off the cliff, probably made not longer than seconds to hours before.

I RECOGNIZE that Jen and Sarah's actions demonstrate 2 people who were in waaayyyy over their heads, who had little to no ability to effectively parent and cope with the challenges that adopting these 6 very troubled kids presented. That's my realistic interpretation of what I've read and concluded.

I'm angry that they were not self aware and mature enough to realize they couldn't parent these kids without *A LOT* of outside professional help.

I'm angry that they took the kids and drove off a cliff, instead of relinquishing the kids to foster care while they evaluated how to proceed.

I'm angry that they had a savior complex.

I'm angry that they exploited the kids at every opportunity.

I'm angry that their actions give adopted kids and adoptive parents a bad image.

I'm really angry that they chose to kill the kids, presumably to save face.
 
BBM. Isn't it even remotely possible that the "friends" Lee wanted to go and hang out with were not a good influence? Or were restricted by request of the court, or social workers?
It's more than possible that a parenting plan was in place, outlining curfews, allowable activities outside the home, people Lee was allowed to spend time with and others she was not allowed to spend time with.

Isn't it possible that separating Lee from being allowed to have unsupervised free time with some of these "friends" was a healthy break from influences that were encouraging Lee to be "difficult to handle"?

Do we know if Lee was restricted from any and all "friends" including any NEW friends? Was she allowed to go to the library? Shopping accompanied by Jen or Sarah? Movies with friends, chaperoned? This teen, by her own admission, needed structure and guidance. She wasn't in foster care because she had a happy home life with bio mom, with effective and safe parenting.

I don't think we can infer that Lee is telling the complete truth, or that Jen and Sarah Hart were "bad" or "evil" for restricting her from seeing certain people. We have NO idea what the real social services situation was for "Lee" beyond only HER report to a sympathetic reporter who desperately wants to write a story about the "private" experience in the Hart home-- and no one wants to present the Harts in any light except to pile on and present them as pure evil, all the time.

Regarding &#8220;Lee&#8221;&#8217;s experience, I will defend some of the Hart&#8217;s choices. Keeping her busy with school and a job isn&#8217;t unreasonable to me. They could have allowed her to have friends come to the home to have loosely-supervised hang-out time. I think it was a great idea for Lee to have a job at Subway.

And it does sound as if she enjoyed the camping and other experiences they gave her. There were a few troubling things Lee reported (the football incident), but it doesn&#8217;t sound as if she had been abused, and even she says that.
 
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