CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[Stunned]

I followed the Ferguson case very closely and when this photo got traction most of my internet community of BLM sympathizers felt that something was fishy about that photo. Adopting a black child just to use them for some sort of progressive/liberal photo op is how we saw it and we also saw it as exploitative.

This is just so true and so stinking sad.... these kids needed a hero.

 

[Doghairrules]

I have wondered once or twice if SH had felt guilty about the treatment of the children and hoped that they would be removed from her/their care if she admitted the abuse. One thing that stood out to me in this is that the spanking happened if the children continued to cry. My children tend to cry when they are in trouble because of loss of privilege (we typically take away preferred activities). Often they can cry for a long time and I have, on occasion, removed them from the situation because they were upsetting their siblings, but I have never spanked for crying, not that I spank at all. And most experts say that you don't discuss the situation immediately but when the child has had a chance to calm down, this way you can go through scenarios of possible other choices.

The other thing that stuck out was the part where JH says that she "believes" SH handled the discipline that weekend. The interview was done the next day, wouldn't you know what happened the day before?

My parent used to beat me when I cried to “give me something to cry about.” [emoji22] I cannot stop thinking about these children.

 

[Doghairrules]

Does it give Sarah equal rights as a parent if she doesn’t legally adopt the kids as well? I am a stepparent and pretty much have no legal rights regarding my stepkids, even though I am married to their dad.

And I am friends with a lesbian couple who just gave birth to their first child. The mom who didn’t carry the baby is having to go through a second parent adoption.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Thanks for the timeline, Kaa Boom. Wondering if you could add two things, especially in light of the recent ID of Ciera. (There was a counter-directional, unexplained stop at the outset of the trip that possibly could be related to the disappearance of HH and DH):

1. LE have stated that they know a stop was made in Naselle, WA, prior to the drive south along Hwy 101 and Rte. 1. They still do not know why that northwesterly stop was made before the drive south to Caifornia. The fastest route from Woodlawn, WA to Naselle, WA according to Google is abt 1hr 31 min (77.2 mi.) via WA-4 W. From there they could travel south on 401, cross the bay to Astoria, continuing south on 101 to Leggitt, as LE have described. (Or, they could've added 30 minutes to their drive by continuing west from Naselle, if they dropped the dogs off at the dog-friendly beach on Long Beach. Remember, the dogs are still missing, too.)

2. Some reports have the family not leaving Fort Bragg at 9 pm Sat 3/24, but 'staying the night.' No link available so do with that what you will. But you might want to add to the timeline the 3/25 Sunday morning surveillance video at the Safeway in Fort Bragg.

Thanks!

 

[Stunned]

So basically don’t discipline your kids at all... just wait until it isn’t the heat of the moment, and sit down and have a rational conversation with them about right and wrong? I am very against spanking and yelling, but not time outs or taking things away for a bit. Idk, that website seems to me like someone selling their services, so they of course want to discourage parents from acting “in the moment”, since she charges parents of “wild children” $125/50 min. JMO

The rules of our school with child I shadow, (meaning one on one) you throw or crash toy..it’s gone. We do talk about soft landings. A soft landing is acceptable. We don’t talk about good or bad days, I changed that, my guys were hearing that to often. We know have soft or hard days.

 

[SATA]

It's baffling. Jen and Sarah abused the kids on one hand and allowed things like piano lessons and amusement parks on the other. Maybe the two just didn't know how to discipline properly. Some parents believe in food deprivation and "spankings" as "good" forms of punishment. Especially, "old school" disciplinarians.

They should have it done to themselves - by people twice or thrice their size. Let´s hear how "good" they think it is then.

 

[gcharlie]

Thanks for the timeline, Kaa Boom. Wondering if you could add two things, especially in light of the recent ID of Ciera. (There was a counter-directional, unexplained stop at the outset of the trip that possibly could be related to the disappearance of HH and DH):

1. LE have stated that they know a stop was made in Naselle, WA, prior to the drive south along Hwy 101 and Rte. 1. They still do not know why that northwesterly stop was made before the drive south to Caifornia. The fastest route from Woodlawn, WA to Naselle, WA according to Google is abt 1hr 31 min (77.2 mi.) via WA-4 W. From there they could travel south on 401, cross the bay to Astoria, continuing south on 101 to Leggitt, as LE have described. (Or, they could've added 30 minutes to their drive by continuing west from Naselle, if they dropped the dogs off at the dog-friendly beach on Long Beach. Remember, the dogs are still missing, too.)

2. Some reports have the family not leaving Fort Bragg at 9 pm Sat 3/24, but 'staying the night.' No link available so do with that what you will. But you might want to add to the timeline the 3/25 Sunday morning surveillance video at the Safeway in Fort Bragg.

Thanks!

I think the Naselle stop is important to the timeline.

 

[gitana1]

I thought their music teacher was Max Ribner, the guy from Nahko's band. Did they have another one?

Thats what I thought. Which seemed to be brief and both musician and parents got a self-serving benefit from it. The parents by showing they're tight with the musician.

With most pics being staged, I don't think they often got chance to choose who they stood next to but maybe when they could choose, then maybe they chose it that way.

But, my fave photo of them all is this one. It's still full of props and the like but I feel they all look genuinely happy here, as though they're having a good day. Hannah particularly but Markis too, seem to be enjoying the moment.

What I sometimes notice with Hannah, is she doesn't always seem to conform in the photos, well not to the fullest anyway. I love that by the way, a bit of self determination and wisdom comes through in her pics.


https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/...press.com/2018/03/hart-family.jpg&w=1600&q=70

Tutting, sighing and shaking my head, these beautiful children.

Gorgeous kids. Your favorite photo is without the parents!!!

They went to college in education. Unless it is some bizarre place, teachers learn behavior techniques that are not spankings or food deprivation, Beating with a belt and holding a head under water is not approved discipline in most schools.

I am sure that people have seen the meme on FB how “parents spanked me and I am OK. “ Even today there are younger people that believe that and I imagine teachers as well as paddlimg is allowed in some states.

Can you imagine if your spouse paddled you for breaking rules? That is assault. Not for children. Smaller and vulnerable.No problemo.

Agreed. I'm sure they also must've had parenting classes in connection with the Missouri child abuse case. Their response? Immediately remove their kids from scrutiny and gradually escalate the isolation and abuse.

I see these as stubborn women who likely believed on the surface at least that they did no wrong and were indignant if anyone dared suggest they did. But they knew what they were doing was against the law or could get the kids taken and shatter the illusion they created. So they gradually isolated the kids from peering eyes more and more. But they didn't stop. They didn't change.

This wasn't about nice people in over their heads, IMO. It was about deeply narcissistic mothers whose children were a reflection of who they wanted people to think they (the parent) were. But as with all narcissists who have strong, underlying insecurity, the kids could never fulfill the picture they wanted to paint of themselves. Instead, messy, normal kids with needs and imperfections and issues like all kids have, were probably incredibly disappointing to them and filled them with rage that not only were they not stable enough props, but they might just derail the whole show.

No matter what those horrible women "gave" them it would not have even enough. Because kids have needs and personalities and don't tend to blossom when their needs aren't met.

So the children became dangerous to their fragile egos I think and caused them to erupt in narcissistic rage.

I'm starting to feel that indeed, maybe poor Devonte and Hannah weren't in that car at all.

I don't know what's worse.

 

[bears10]

As a retired teacher , I used the techniques she talks about the last few years of teaching, I received training in that. It works!

I evaluate things in how it relates to me as an adult, I screw up. My husband tells me that I did not come home when I said from shopping so too bad. Grounded from the car for one week.

To me, that is absurd.

My kids turned out OK but I wonder what kind of things they have to overcome because of my 1,2,3 use. How silly it all seems after I read this

I don’t see how disciplining children is comparable to adult partners disciplining one another. It is apples and oranges imo. I’m probably around your kids ages, and I can assure you most, if not all, of my friends were disciplined the way you disciplined your kids, and we all turned out just fine, and are successful, well adjusted adults. We know right from wrong, and that there are consequences to our actions.

 

[Sleuth99]

Posting here so everyone can see it before I have to take off for the day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjpDkSfivgk&feature=youtu.be


edit: I do have to run soon, but I wanted to add that I've watched this on .25x speed at certain points and it was very interesting. For those who have the time and interest, I recommend going slow-mo during points where they're interacting (Jen/Sarah kissing, Devonte horsing around with Sarah) and looking closely at their facial expressions. I don't know how much I should speculate about it, really... I'm interested in what other people have to say.

Yes it made me want to puke. The children were clearly performing. Blowing all them kisses and what not. They were directed. And I'm sure Jen Hart didn't go on that trip with a shot list. So I'm sure she was designing as she went along and directing the kids for each shot. In other words, it was TORTURE for the children and a long day. I wouldn't be surprised if Hannah and Markis said F THAT.


MOO*

 

[flourish]

My parent used to beat me when I cried to “give me something to cry about.” [emoji22] I cannot stop thinking about these children.

That one is just classic awful... You already had something to cry about... I hate when adults just discount children's feelings.

 

[SATA]

Look at who Jen has her hands on in that photo, too - just her favorites. IIRC in that photo Hannah and Devonte aren't next to each other, but both are tense with clenched fists.

Another observation, one that I'm nervous about sharing... I watched the birthday adventure video a few times, and I saw two interesting moments where Devonte grabbed Sarah in rather personal spots, and laughed. There's one near the middle where he gets her around the upper waist or lower torso, and once near the end where he slaps her bum. Both times she startles but seems to relax when she sees who it is. I wonder what Jen thought.

I think Jen was fine with it, in fact I think she directed it. It seems she had her fingers firmly planted on everything that was put out about this family.
Her narrative through and through. IMO

Inappropriate things I have noticed in photos and videos (apart from the ones you mention - I had noticed them and was a bit startled.)

The photo of Devonte hugging the police officer. I was immediately repulsed by the photo. I had no idea what it was, hadn´t seen it before.
It is too intimate, Devonte was too big a kid for such intimate contact with a stranger.

Another photo from the same day of Devonte hugging another stranger, same thing for me. Too intimate between strangers.

The footage of Devonte hugging a singer for a long, long time. Same again, uncomfortably intimate.

The footage of Devonte dancing in his undies. Maybe fine if only for family to see, but to put it online for all the world to see!
Would have been cute if Devonte had been a toddler, but he wasn´t, he was a big boy.

A couple of photos of Jeremiah and Devonte in oddly staged photos in underwear (bathing trunks? Not sure.) with alcoholic beverages - some say Martinis. WTF!

 

[Sleuth99]

That one is just classic awful... You already had something to cry about... I hate when adults just discount children's feelings.

Wonder where those type of sayings came from... [emoji849]


MOO*

 

[flourish]

They should have it done to themselves - by people twice or thrice their size. Let´s hear how "good" they think it is then.

To be fair, about something absolutely UNfair, I think many of the people who spank, WERE spanked by someone twice or thrice their size, and I've wondered about that... Some people do the same as was done to them, in some kind of spiteful, wrongly aimed "payback" to those they couldn't fight.... Like cycle continuation. Some do much better than was done to them, though...I don't know...

 

[disgruntled]

I just keep checking, hoping against hope that those kids somehow survived.

 

[BooBooTheFool]

It is difficult to visualize what this little girl along with her siblings had gone through. It is simply a kind of torture by definition. You do not drag a 6-year old to the bathroom, partially undressing her, putting her head under cold water while hitting her with your bloody fist leaving bruises n her tiny body from the sternum to the belly button and her back too. The other sadist 'mum' was a accomplice and an enabler in these savage practices. The court should have sent both to prison. jmo

It's such a shame the kids couldn't be saved.

 

[Sleuth99]

I'm going to go ahead and say Jen was a planner and will think about things from that perspective.

She's directing the videos, declining outreach from Ken and concerned festival goers, making Devonte take picture with police officers, very controlling.


MOO*

 

[SATA]

I just keep checking, hoping against hope that those kids somehow survived.

Same here.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm going to go ahead and say Jen was a planner and will think about things from that perspective.

She's directing the videos, declining outreach from Ken and concerned festival goers, making Devonte take picture with police officers, very controlling.


MOO*

I realize that, in the context of things, this is a little different but if someone approached me at a festival (and I am a heavy festival goer) and offered to "mentor" my kids or whatever, it would freak me the heck out and I'd go far, far away. Like I said, because we know other things that they might have done, it just adds to the isolation that it looks like they were creating. In everyday reality, though, I'd think it plenty weird if people I'd just met started telling me that they wanted to hang around my kids and mentor them. No, no, no.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Yes it made me want to puke. The children were clearly performing. Blowing all them kisses and what not. They were directed. And I'm sure Jen Hart didn't go on that trip with a shot list. So I'm sure she was designing as she went along and directing the kids for each shot. In other words, it was TORTURE for the children and a long day. I wouldn't be surprised if Hannah and Markis said F THAT.

MOO*

I agree. It seems pretty clear that so many shots/scenarios were set up. The only spontaneous moment seemed that time Devonte ran past and swiped at Sarah's bottom, which she seemed to lightly scold him for. All the long lingering shots of shoes walking past. The children having to perform the same things like each coming out of the outdoor loo and giving their reaction, or eating the fruit and then blowing kisses to the camera. Those really wide, toothy smiles that look more and more forced every time I see them. The multiple long shots of them 'meditating'. Think of how long they would have to do that to get all the different angles Jen must have wanted. So darned orchestrated.

Around 5:38, there's a shot of Sarah with a purple flower. To me it looks like she has a healing or concealed bruise on her left cheek, just below the eye. I could be wrong of course, perhaps she's always had that discolouration and I never noticed it in other shots. Still, in other shots of the music vid, I see a faint redness on that cheek compared to the other. Perhaps I am just seeing things. MOO.