CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

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I'm going to go ahead and say Jen was a planner and will think about things from that perspective.

She's directing the videos, declining outreach from Ken and concerned festival goers, making Devonte take picture with police officers, very controlling.


MOO*

That is how I see it too. Jen definitely the narrator of the happy family tale - no one else´s voice allowed.
Basically, Sarah seems to be as much of a prop as the kids.
Was she as much of a victim as they were? Not sure, there is too little information.

Her last message to a friend, I wonder what it meant.
 
This link was posted upthread somewhere and it breaks my heart. One thing that struck me upon reading their blurbs was how many said things along the lines of “I love to give hugs” or “”I can’t wait for my forever family and all the hugs”... these are not little children. I am literally in tears because they are so starved for any sort of affection. https://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Application/TARE/Search.aspx/NonMatchingSearchResults


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I realize that, in the context of things, this is a little different but if someone approached me at a festival (and I am a heavy festival goer) and offered to "mentor" my kids or whatever, it would freak me the heck out and I'd go far, far away. Like I said, because we know other things that they might have done, it just adds to the isolation that it looks like they were creating. In everyday reality, though, I'd think it plenty weird if people I'd just met started telling me that they wanted to hang around my kids and mentor them. No, no, no.

They were interested in networking when it benefited them. I'm commenting on their inconsistency. My critique of them is my focus.


MOO*
 
To be fair, about something absolutely UNfair, I think many of the people who spank, WERE spanked by someone twice or thrice their size, and I've wondered about that... Some people do the same as was done to them, in some kind of spiteful, wrongly aimed "payback" to those they couldn't fight.... Like cycle continuation. Some do much better than was done to them, though...I don't know...

that's the good ol' inter-generational transmission of violence

I can't tell you how many times my mother used the "that's how i was raised/that's all I knew" excuse for whipping me until i cried or fell down and then kept hitting me with a belt until i had welts. she said grandpa would pin her and her brother's head with his legs and beat them. and there's no doubt in my mind he experienced the worse or some treatment. some of the rules for "whoopins" like hitting them only on the legs or arms with the belt are bizarre to me but i'm a decent enough person to know violence isn't called for with children and just because it was done to me doesn't mean my children deserve it too.
 
n 2013, Ribner began offering music classes to kids at his home in Southeast Portland. He said that all six of the Hart children participated in the program and that he and the children wrote songs together and played music twice a month for nearly a year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...sf/2018/03/hart_familys_idyllic_public_im.amp

Ah, this explains it for me. It was at *his* home. I couldn't figure out why they'd let him in their home when their goal everywhere else seems to be to isolate and not let anyone in their home. Controlled exposure, only under their terms. Now we know the music lessons were at his home; I thought I'd read differently elsewhere. Thanks!

I also agree with whoever said these lessons were about making the women look better: "Look how 'in' we are with Nahko!"
 
I don’t see how disciplining children is comparable to adult partners disciplining one another. It is apples and oranges imo. I’m probably around your kids ages, and I can assure you most, if not all, of my friends were disciplined the way you disciplined your kids, and we all turned out just fine, and are successful, well adjusted adults. We know right from wrong, and that there are consequences to our actions.

I think most people in our country become very defensive about spanking because it's common in our culture and let's face it, most of our parents did it and most of us have swatted our child, even those of us who really don't believe in it. And no one wants to think they are bad parents or that their parents were bad parents.

I don't think people who have used spanking are necessarily bad parents. Just humans. And doing what was taught. But I do think it can be compared to using physical disclpine on an adult.

Because hitting to achieve good behavior or compliance or obedience or to punish is still hitting (and oh my gosh yes spanking IS hitting) and the person being hit is still human whether spouse or child. The main difference is the child is much smaller, much more vulnerable and much more easily destroyed emotionally by the betrayal of the person they love and trust the most striking them.

Yes many many people got spanked and "turned out fine." But countless others were utterly destroyed by that form of discipline. Our prisons are full to the brim of people who got whipped, paddled, spanked, whatever. Millions of Americans suffer from depression, anxiety, sexual problems, eating disorders, OCD, bi polar, personality disorders, etc., that can be attributed in part to being struck as children according to countless studies.

And that includes just "regular spanking".

And the excuse, "Oh I smack them on the diaper once. It doesn't hurt" is also nonsense IMO. Then why do it? Wouldn't a "Hey! Stop that!" acheive the same result?

You never know what child is going to turn out incredibly negatively affected by being struck. And you never know which parents are going to take it across that line into full fledged abuse. Physical discipline of any kind is an easy segue into brutality for not only those who should never have had kids but also those who are otherwise good parents but who are having a mental health issue or facing extreme crisis or just having a super frustrating moment.

A culture that encourages or accepts the physical discipline of little children as normal or necessary enables abuse because it can be a normalized path into something horrific. Just like here. These mothers "resorted to spanking." That then became "I lost control, bent my kid over a bathtub, shoved her head under water and brutally beat her causing bruises from stem to stern."

And then belt whippings. And starving. And ultimate death.

A society that believes children can be taught respect, obedience, manners and be disciplined without resorting to physical measures is one that makes that option less of an easy "go to" for so many who don't cope well with parenthood.

That's my two cents. I respect that others disagree.
 
I think most people in our country become very defensive about spanking because it's common in our culture and let's face it, most of our parents did it and most of us have swatted our child, even those of us who really don't believe in it. And no one wants to think they are bad parents or that their parents were bad parents.

I don't think people who have used spanking are necessarily bad parents. Just humans. And doing what was taught. But I do think it can be compared to using physical disclpine on an adult.

Because hitting to achieve good behavior or compliance or obedience or to punish is still hitting (and oh my gosh yes spanking IS hitting) and the person being hit is still human whether spouse or child. The main difference is the child is much smaller, much more vulnerable and much more easily destroyed emotionally by the betrayal of the person they love and trust the most striking them.

Yes many many people got spanked and "turned out fine." But countless others were utterly destroyed by that form of discipline. Our prisons are full to the brim of people who got whipped, paddled, spanked, whatever. Millions of Americans suffer from depression, anxiety, sexual problems, eating disorders, OCD, bi polar, personality disorders, etc., that can be attributed in part to being struck as children according to countless studies.

And that includes just "regular spanking".

And the excuse, "Oh I smack them on the diaper once. It doesn't hurt" is also nonsense IMO. Then why do it? Wouldn't a "Hey! Stop that!" acheive the same result?

You never know what child is going to turn out incredibly negatively affected by being struck. And you never know which parents are going to take it across that line into full fledged abuse. Physical discipline of any kind is an easy segue into brutality for not only those who should never have had kids but also those who are otherwise good parents but who are having a mental health issue or facing extreme crisis or just having a super frustrating moment.

A culture that encourages or accepts the physical discipline of little children as normal or necessary enables abuse because it can be a normalized path into something horrific. Just like here. These mothers "resorted to spanking." That then became "I lost control, bent my kid over a bathtub, shoved her head under water and brutally beat her causing bruises from stem to stern."

And then belt whippings. And starving. And ultimate death.

A society that believes children can be taught respect, obedience, manners and be disciplined without resorting to physical measures is one that makes that option less of an easy "go to" for so many who don't cope well with parenthood.

That's my two cents. I respect that others disagree.

Wonder where all this "common culture" physical discipline came from ...[emoji854]


MOO*
 
I agree. It seems pretty clear that so many shots/scenarios were set up. The only spontaneous moment seemed that time Devonte ran past and swiped at Sarah's bottom, which she seemed to lightly scold him for. All the long lingering shots of shoes walking past. The children having to perform the same things like each coming out of the outdoor loo and giving their reaction, or eating the fruit and then blowing kisses to the camera. Those really wide, toothy smiles that look more and more forced every time I see them. The multiple long shots of them 'meditating'. Think of how long they would have to do that to get all the different angles Jen must have wanted. So darned orchestrated.

Around 5:38, there's a shot of Sarah with a purple flower. To me it looks like she has a healing or concealed bruise on her left cheek, just below the eye. I could be wrong of course, perhaps she's always had that discolouration and I never noticed it in other shots. Still, in other shots of the music vid, I see a faint redness on that cheek compared to the other. Perhaps I am just seeing things. MOO.

She has that mark in photos from other times. I think it's just skin discoloration. I don't know why people see her as a victim. There is every indication she went along with all of this perfectly. "Happy birthday to meeeeeee!"
 
Wonder where all this "common culture" physical discipline came from ...[emoji854]


MOO*

It's been around forever. Much of spanking or whipping can be linked to slavery and discipline in prisons and ships. But striking kids has been around forever. Primates do it in the animal world. Nations with capital punishment tend to be nations that favor it.

Spanking as a form of discipline is more common among certain
ethnic groups and much more popular among less educated/lower
income people. The more education and economic stability the less use of corporal punishment.

Legally bruatlizing children was perfectly acceptable. Even killing them, historically. Including in the US. Attitudes about what is an acceptable level of physical punishment have slowly changed from super harsh to not leaving a mark. (Although reading comments defending that ball player who totally flogged his four year old for a minor transgression, one would never know).

I can provide links.

One thing that is disturbing here are the comments by Hannah that she was being whipped and her parents were racist. The implications of all that in the context of the whole cross-ethnic adoption debate are significant.

(Oh and caveat- I fully understand concerns by groups who feel adoption can be used to destroy a culture, etc. But I also think that parents who adopt regardless of ethnicity and are just happy to love a child are wonderful, beautiful humans who we need more of in the world. Especially as
so many kids languish in foster care).
 
Just to be clear, it was just an observation in viewing the video. I was in no way implying that Sarah was only a victim and not complicit or a willing participant in what was being done to the children. I also said myself that it might just be a blemish or mark that I missed before.
 
Another observation, one that I'm nervous about sharing... I watched the birthday adventure video a few times, and I saw two interesting moments where Devonte grabbed Sarah in rather personal spots, and laughed. There's one near the middle where he gets her around the upper waist or lower torso, and once near the end where he slaps her bum. Both times she startles but seems to relax when she sees who it is. I wonder what Jen thought.


I noticed in that video that Sarah doesn't seem to engaged with the children. The hug with Abigail seems awkward.
 
I'll offer an alternative title to the video: The Devonte and Jeremiah Video. If you remove SH, it was largely about D and J. Abigail was featured a somewhat distant second, and Markis was featured only very slightly, and mostly in a remote way, often fuzzy or distant. Hannah: Virtually nonexistent.

Certainly, we can't know the reasoning for sure -perhaps Markis and Hannah are shy, weren't feeling well, etc. I thought it interesting, though. The overall impression I get is that both Markis and Hannah are fairly "nonexistent" in the family in general.
 
http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

This is a new article about a Hart family friend who was mentioned earlier in one of the posts that was removed because it was based on social media.

[FONT=&amp]From the article:

The image Bakhtiar paints, however, is one of contradictions. On one hand, she said Jennifer told her that the children would never be able to live normal, independent lives as adults – that they would never be able to marry or have children of their own.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]On the other hand, Bakhtiar says the children she knew were smart and politically engaged and they were always dancing to music. She said they loved to read, and they were healthy, strong and physically active. She said they seemed younger than their years, but not immature.


Several posts have mentioned that the children were not being taught independent living skills. It sounds like Jen and Sarah had very low expectations for them or they wanted a family that would never leave them.


[/FONT]
 
My parent used to beat me when I cried to “give me something to cry about.” [emoji22] I cannot stop thinking about these children.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. All I can think of is the pain and future issues that creates. My upbringing was a little more small town free range, though we had a host of other problems. My husband was brought up the way you were and I can see how negatively it has affected him. Your parents literally told you that you were not allowed to have emotions, that it was not ok to feel upset or hurt by their actions. My husband used to have immense anger issues, I feel like this would happen to most kids.
 
http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

This is a new article about a Hart family friend who was mentioned earlier in one of the posts that was removed because it was based on social media.

[FONT=&amp]From the article:

The image Bakhtiar paints, however, is one of contradictions. On one hand, she said Jennifer told her that the children would never be able to live normal, independent lives as adults – that they would never be able to marry or have children of their own.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]On the other hand, Bakhtiar says the children she knew were smart and politically engaged and they were always dancing to music. She said they loved to read, and they were healthy, strong and physically active. She said they seemed younger than their years, but not immature.


Several posts have mentioned that the children were not being taught independent living skills. It sounds like Jen and Sarah had very low expectations for them or they wanted a family that would never leave them.

[/FONT]

I really don't understand this: Why would the children "never be able to live normal independent lives as adults -they would never be able to marry or have children of their own"? There are many, many children who suffer abuse and, especially after being adopted into loving families, who are able to do those things. Some do not, some do. From what I can see, the children all looked pretty smart -they could read, seemed absolutely adorable. None of these children would be able to do any of those things???????

It sort of seems like JH projecting herself onto the children: Can't "have" children; unable to live a normal life! I'd bet some of those children were more "normal" than her.
 
I really don't understand this: Why would the children "never be able to live normal independent lives as adults -they would never be able to marry or have children of their own"? There are many, many children who suffer abuse and, especially after being adopted into loving families, who are able to do those things. Some do not, some do. From what I can see, the children all looked pretty smart -they could read, seemed absolutely adorable. None of these children would be able to do any of those things???????

It sort of seems like JH projecting herself onto the children: Can't "have" children; unable to live a normal life! I'd bet some of those children were more "normal" than her.

I agree! People with various health conditions (both congenital and acquired), mental illnesses, personality disorders, chromosomal abnormalities, etc. get married and have kids and hold down jobs every day-not to mention those with varying types of early life experiences. I have a cousin with cerebral palsy. He's wheelchair confined, can't speak properly, has little control over his limbs so he's unable to feed himself, and has a home health nurse-he still has a girlfriend and has a life that's probably more exciting than mine. If the children were able to build campfires, demonstrate at rallies (with a cognitive understanding of what they were doing), take care of animals, and engage in the various outdoor activities that they were supposedly showing in their Facebook pictures then they could surely have lives and relationships outside of the home.
 
http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

This is a new article about a Hart family friend who was mentioned earlier in one of the posts that was removed because it was based on social media.

[FONT=&amp]From the article:

The image Bakhtiar paints, however, is one of contradictions. On one hand, she said Jennifer told her that the children would never be able to live normal, independent lives as adults – that they would never be able to marry or have children of their own.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]On the other hand, Bakhtiar says the children she knew were smart and politically engaged and they were always dancing to music. She said they loved to read, and they were healthy, strong and physically active. She said they seemed younger than their years, but not immature.


Several posts have mentioned that the children were not being taught independent living skills. It sounds like Jen and Sarah had very low expectations for them or they wanted a family that would never leave them.


[/FONT]

When I adopted my oldest she was so addicted to crack we couldn't turn the lights on, no one could wear perfume, I wore her in a sling for six months cause she'd cry when I took her out...and I mean wail for hours....she then she had a seizure...and another...and a cat scan that said she had cerebral palsy and would never walk....then she was autistic...then on the spectrum....then just has sensory dysfunction... now possibly ADD...the social workers and doctors pretty much told me I'd be parenting her at home for the rest of my life and to get prepared.

With every diagnosis I cried and I braced myself for the future (I'm doing that now with my little one who they say has severe mental illness) and one day, I was like...this is BS...and I just decided not to listen anymore. She's in middle school going to an arts academy as a dancer and an artist studying diplomacy because she speaks fluent Mandarin, she's braiding her hair right now for a big show tomorrow....so, I'm glad I never believed them.

Perhaps similar things were being said to J and S about their children and they unfortunately did believe them. When I read the abuse report that was linked up thread, the first thing I thought was "they are afraid of their kids" not afraid of their culture etc, but flat out afraid of something (diagnosis, failure to thrive, potential behavior issues, history of lying) and they are using archaic disciplinary tools cause they are terrified of the kid's future...possible failures? Social workers will scare you about Fetal Alcohol syndrome and potential learning problems the kids may have down the road. I think this is so that the parents use the services provided if and when they encounter these problems.

Also this article seems like Jen was most likely battling some severe mental health issues....and probably needed medical intervention. IMO I think being terrified of their "future", needing to control them and some serious mental health issues created a perfect storm of abuse, isolation and horror for those kids :(
 
She would lose her "props" or "accessories" or "extras" for all her movie making. She lived in a fantasy world.
 
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