MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, fatally shot while jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #1

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JemFantasy said:
I'm fairly new to Websleuths (just made an account yesterday) and also to this case. After doing a bit of research, I'm curious what people's views are on the ex-boyfriend Wes Sutherland? According to my research, he took 2 polygraphs (the 1st one was inconclusive and the 2nd he failed). He claims it's an intimidation tactic and that he didn't kill her. He even went as far as to suggest the father murdered her. However, in the 2 years that they dated, her parents only met/saw him once. Was this by his choice? Hers? I'm sure the parents would have liked to get to know him better. This makes me wonder if there was some type of abuse or control happening in the relationship that led to their break up. This is just my opinion (I have more research to do on the case), but as of now I suspect the ex-boyfriend. He not only worked with her, but likely would have known the route she used when she went on runs as well.
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Although he's a VI. I agree with all of this. I take his posts with a grain of salt.

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JemFantasy said:
I'm fairly new to Websleuths (just made an account yesterday) and also to this case. After doing a bit of research, I'm curious what people's views are on the ex-boyfriend Wes Sutherland? According to my research, he took 2 polygraphs (the 1st one was inconclusive and the 2nd he failed). He claims it's an intimidation tactic and that he didn't kill her. He even went as far as to suggest the father murdered her. However, in the 2 years that they dated, her parents only met/saw him once. Was this by his choice? Hers? I'm sure the parents would have liked to get to know him better. This makes me wonder if there was some type of abuse or control happening in the relationship that led to their break up. This is just my opinion (I have more research to do on the case), but as of now I suspect the ex-boyfriend. He not only worked with her, but likely would have known the route she used when she went on runs as well.
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:welcome: to Websleuths and :tyou: for your interest in this case. We appreciate varied perspectives.
 
brontesaurus said:
I take them with a heaping pile of salt as well, but it's still interesting to get some insight!
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I live in Oakland County and could easily be summoned for jury duty in this case (or a handful of other local cases). As much as I enjoy Websleuths and contributions from many members with varied perspectives, I won't let myself be unduly influenced by anyone's posts. I think we all need to keep an open mind and be careful not to draw any conclusions until there is an arrest, and LE's case is laid out before us. :moo:
 
OldSteve said:
Has there been mention of surveillance cameras in and around the park? Even footage of her way to the park to see if anyone was following her?
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What park? Ally was jogging on a dirt road in rural Rose Township.
 
Kittybunny said:
Thank you for answering my questions, combatmedic2121 (and sorry for leaving a 21 out of your user name!). I get what you are saying about LE's hunch. Following many cases here, it seems that random jogger attacks (see Vanessa Marcotte and Katrina Vetrano) by strangers are much more likely to be sexually motivated crimes and (I assume) since there was no sexual assault in this case, that was not the motive here. So unless it was totally a thrill kill by a random person, which while possible seems unlikely, they believe it was someone who wanted her dead and had a more personal connection - and perhaps that is why they shot her in the back rather than facing her directly.

I was just reading the Rachel Cooke (young lady who went missing while out jogging) thread and their strongest lead was the vehicle that was spotted in the area - after 16 years LE finally believes they have found it and have submitted it for rigorous forensic testing. I feel that in this case, the vehicle may also turn out to be the key to solving the case. Hopefully that is one avenue they are pursuing.
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BBM

The car sighting seems very important. So many cases are solved based on a vehicle description. Is LE still looking for the light colored (possibly tan or white, I believe initial reports said) 4 door sedan? Early in this case, LE was intent on finding a vehicle matching that basic description and even asking if anyone in the area had recently sold a car matching the description for less than it was worth. I never read any follow up from LE as to whether they got credible leads. But in a rural area where people pay attention to which cars drive down their road, I think this unknown light colored car is one of the best leads in this case.
 
Just read through this entire thread and I don't think her parents did it. I don't know why the info should matter. Whether or not mom and dad schemed to get extra money than they needed is quite frankly a non-issue when it comes to who murdered their daughter. Maybe the money thing is wrong to do, but it doesn't make either of them a murderer or any closer to being one. I don't entirely understand this attempt by the ex-bf to discredit them by bringing that matter up. Red herring, idk.

It's not the only thing that the ex has brought up to try and put the parents in a bad light either. The whole part about the polygraphs was another thing. The ex seems to somehow have knowledge that the parents failed their polygraphs. If this is true, is it reported somewhere or is it just what the ex is saying he knows? If he knows, how is it he came to learn such information? He failed two different polygraphs. I suppose bringing up anything about the potential of anyone else failing one will make him feel more confident in the "unreliability" of polygraphs.

BTW someone asked a few posts/pages back if Ally had a usual route she ran and, iirc, the ex replied saying that she didn't. However, multiple linked articles suggest and directly state otherwise. There are a few quotes in them from neighbors.

I am not stating the ex killed her.
I would like to know why he is choosing to focus his suspicions on the parents versus someone/anyone else.
 
Pardon me if I missed it, but where did Alex's parents live? Do we know her jogging route? There is private land, with trails, in the area that she was found, but it would be good to know where she started out, and if possible, what her normal jogging route was.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Michigan

Interesting - appears there would be no registration if a shotgun were purchased... might explain why that was used, especially if she knew her killer.. Hope LE checks local gun shops to see if sales remembers anyone who purchased a shotgun in the caliber that was used.
 
Aeronomy said:
Just read through this entire thread and I don't think her parents did it. I don't know why the info should matter. Whether or not mom and dad schemed to get extra money than they needed is quite frankly a non-issue when it comes to who murdered their daughter. Maybe the money thing is wrong to do, but it doesn't make either of them a murderer or any closer to being one. I don't entirely understand this attempt by the ex-bf to discredit them by bringing that matter up. Red herring, idk.

It's not the only thing that the ex has brought up to try and put the parents in a bad light either. The whole part about the polygraphs was another thing. The ex seems to somehow have knowledge that the parents failed their polygraphs. If this is true, is it reported somewhere or is it just what the ex is saying he knows? If he knows, how is it he came to learn such information? He failed two different polygraphs. I suppose bringing up anything about the potential of anyone else failing one will make him feel more confident in the "unreliability" of polygraphs.

BTW someone asked a few posts/pages back if Ally had a usual route she ran and, iirc, the ex replied saying that she didn't. However, multiple linked articles suggest and directly state otherwise. There are a few quotes in them from neighbors.

I am not stating the ex killed her.
I would like to know why he is choosing to focus his suspicions on the parents versus someone/anyone else.
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You said everything I've been thinking.

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OldSteve said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Michigan

Interesting - appears there would be no registration if a shotgun were purchased... might explain why that was used, especially if she knew her killer.. Hope LE checks local gun shops to see if sales remembers anyone who purchased a shotgun in the caliber that was used.
Click to expand...

I hope LE does check. But it may not yield much. LE, to the best of my knowledge, has never said what gauge shotgun was used. If it was a 2 3/4 inch12 gauge, then that is likely the most common shotgun gauge out there. And 12 gauge pump shotguns have been around since 1897. I have a 12 gauge that is over 60 years old and it performs flawlessly as well as a 20 gauge that is over 80 years old that I still hunt with. It is not improbable that the gun could be any one of a number of pump shotguns sold over the last 50-75 years. As far as ammunition, I finally shot up some buckshot rounds I had that were over 25 years old and they all performed flawlessly. For LE to have any luck with ID'ing the killer through gun or ammo sales could be a real long shot.
 
Aeronomy said:
Just read through this entire thread and I don't think her parents did it. I don't know why the info should matter. Whether or not mom and dad schemed to get extra money than they needed is quite frankly a non-issue when it comes to who murdered their daughter. Maybe the money thing is wrong to do, but it doesn't make either of them a murderer or any closer to being one. I don't entirely understand this attempt by the ex-bf to discredit them by bringing that matter up. Red herring, idk.

It's not the only thing that the ex has brought up to try and put the parents in a bad light either. The whole part about the polygraphs was another thing. The ex seems to somehow have knowledge that the parents failed their polygraphs. If this is true, is it reported somewhere or is it just what the ex is saying he knows? If he knows, how is it he came to learn such information? He failed two different polygraphs. I suppose bringing up anything about the potential of anyone else failing one will make him feel more confident in the "unreliability" of polygraphs.

BTW someone asked a few posts/pages back if Ally had a usual route she ran and, iirc, the ex replied saying that she didn't. However, multiple linked articles suggest and directly state otherwise. There are a few quotes in them from neighbors.

I am not stating the ex killed her.
I would like to know why he is choosing to focus his suspicions on the parents versus someone/anyone else.
Click to expand...
Deflection.
 
I don't see a motive for Ally's parents to murder their only daughter, nor do I currently consider either of them suspects. Ex-boyfriend could have motive if Ally wanted to break off the relationship, and he felt rejected. It wouldn't be the first time that an ex wanted his/her former lover dead.
 
JnRyan said:
I hope LE does check. But it may not yield much. LE, to the best of my knowledge, has never said what gauge shotgun was used. If it was a 2 3/4 inch12 gauge, then that is likely the most common shotgun gauge out there. And 12 gauge pump shotguns have been around since 1897. I have a 12 gauge that is over 60 years old and it performs flawlessly as well as a 20 gauge that is over 80 years old that I still hunt with. It is not improbable that the gun could be any one of a number of pump shotguns sold over the last 50-75 years. As far as ammunition, I finally shot up some buckshot rounds I had that were over 25 years old and they all performed flawlessly. For LE to have any luck with ID'ing the killer through gun or ammo sales could be a real long shot.
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I agree. This is Michigan. Shotguns abound.
 
Aeronomy said:
It's not the only thing that the ex has brought up to try and put the parents in a bad light either. The whole part about the polygraphs was another thing. The ex seems to somehow have knowledge that the parents failed their polygraphs. If this is true, is it reported somewhere or is it just what the ex is saying he knows? If he knows, how is it he came to learn such information? He failed two different polygraphs. I suppose bringing up anything about the potential of anyone else failing one will make him feel more confident in the "unreliability" of polygraphs.
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As I understand (and he may comment on this himself), Wes Sutherland does not know whether the parents failed a polygraph test. I think it is almost certain that the parents were asked to do a polygraph. But they have never mentioned this in an interview. Did they decline to do a polygraph? If they took the polygraph and passed it, one would think they would mention it in their TV interviews. However, it was never brought up by the parents or by the interviewers.
BTW someone asked a few posts/pages back if Ally had a usual route she ran and, iirc, the ex replied saying that she didn't. However, multiple linked articles suggest and directly state otherwise. There are a few quotes in them from neighbors.
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I think the parents and neighbors knew her route better than Sutherland did. I don't think he visited her much at her parents' house much. As I understand, they would rather meet at his apartment that is close to their work.

edit regarding the polygraph. I wonder how the parents knew about Sutherland failing a polygraph test. Did police tell them? (I would think that the police would promise that the results would be confidential.) It seems that they found out much later, long after the polygraph was taken.
 
Hey,

Regarding the extent to which a person can rely on the polygraph test, I can promise you unconditionally that they are 0% reliable and should therefore be discontinued from use in attempting to pinpoint a culprit in a crime. I have extensive experience using polygraphs, and I can assure you they can give incriminating readings when innocent, and non-incriminating readings when guilty; I have both failed the test when I ought to have passed, and passed when I ought to have failed. There are too many factors to consider that throw into question their reliability. It means absolutely nothing that a person either passes or fails a polygraph test. They have about as much importance as a Facebook who-are-you-in-your-next-life quiz.

I am following this case with close scrutiny. The fact that the boyfriend 'failed' a polygraph test means nothing. What is more telling is the refusal to take part in the test [for fear of incrimination]. Did Ally's parents actually take the test, or are they trying to withhold their results? I mean, either way the results won't be too telling, but it'll be interesting to see their attitude towards it: vehement refusal, etc.
 
Nakkasac said:
Hey,

Regarding the extent to which a person can rely on the polygraph test, I can promise you unconditionally that they are 0% reliable and should therefore be discontinued from use in attempting to pinpoint a culprit in a crime. I have extensive experience using polygraphs, and I can assure you they can give incriminating readings when innocent, and non-incriminating readings when guilty; I have both failed the test when I ought to have passed, and passed when I ought to have failed. There are too many factors to consider that throw into question their reliability. It means absolutely nothing that a person either passes or fails a polygraph test. They have about as much importance as a Facebook who-are-you-in-your-next-life quiz.

I am following this case with close scrutiny. The fact that the boyfriend 'failed' a polygraph test means nothing. What is more telling is the refusal to take part in the test [for fear of incrimination]. Did Ally's parents actually take the test, or are they trying to withhold their results? I mean, either way the results won't be too telling, but it'll be interesting to see their attitude towards it: vehement refusal, etc.
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How did you get to take so many polygraph tests?

Polygraph tests aren't 100% fool-proof. That is why they are not valid in court. If one believes that they are not reliable, then it would make sense not to take such a test. I am not sure if I would if I were in that situation.

It is true that the parents have not told us anything about taking (or refusing) a polygraph test. But there are also questions that the (ex?)-boyfriend has not answered. For example, has the police taken any weapons from his apartment?
 
Nakkasac said:
Hey,

Regarding the extent to which a person can rely on the polygraph test, I can promise you unconditionally that they are 0% reliable and should therefore be discontinued from use in attempting to pinpoint a culprit in a crime. I have extensive experience using polygraphs, and I can assure you they can give incriminating readings when innocent, and non-incriminating readings when guilty; I have both failed the test when I ought to have passed, and passed when I ought to have failed. There are too many factors to consider that throw into question their reliability. It means absolutely nothing that a person either passes or fails a polygraph test. They have about as much importance as a Facebook who-are-you-in-your-next-life quiz.

I am following this case with close scrutiny. The fact that the boyfriend 'failed' a polygraph test means nothing. What is more telling is the refusal to take part in the test [for fear of incrimination]. Did Ally's parents actually take the test, or are they trying to withhold their results? I mean, either way the results won't be too telling, but it'll be interesting to see their attitude towards it: vehement refusal, etc.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% on this.
 
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