Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[kizzykat]

Didn't the doctor say to schedule a follow-up in 6 months? Did that happen? Did CPS have the obligation to require the results of that follow-up appointment?


Excellent discussion.


Whatever precautions exist, parents accused do not have the standard Constitutional protections of the presumption of innocence, the right to face their accuser, the right to avoid self-incrimination, the right to a speedy trial, and the right to a trial by a jury of their peers unless they're "lucky" enough to get a criminal charge somewhere in the process. Children can be taken away for months or years or even permanently TPR'd without a criminal charge ever being filed.

Do you have any evidence of that?

It's on pg 22 of the OR DHS report, I'm not sure the exact date but it sounds like it's the 12/3/13 conversation mentioned in notes below. Easier to type it out than copy/paste/cut due to it being scanned:

"The children's medical provider, Dr. _____ , saw each child for a medical check up and reported no concerns regarding the children, despite only Jeremiah being on the growth chart. Dr. _______ explained the family history for the children were unknown and she only had one graph point to go off and no prior medical records. She noted the children presented as "very intelligent."
"Given the nature of the information reported and prior DHS concerns, Dr. ______ indicated she would send the case manager information to monitor this family and request follow up physical appointments in 6 months."
-----------

(Backing up to pg 11 are more notes w/dates)

11/19/13 Medical: I received a fax containing all six of the children's growth charts along with letters from the doctor indicating no concerns for any of the children. Only Jeremiah was noted to be on the growth chart for height and weight. The other children were below the chart and the letters specifically note for Sierra and Markis that no concerns were noted despite below average stature and weight.
11/27/13: I left a message for Dr. _______ asking that she contact me to discuss these clients.
12/3/13: I received a call from Dr. ______. We discussed her contact with the family, history shared by the family, and DHS history/concerns.
-------------------

https://www.scribd.com/embeds/37719...J3P2I7dtOJqmmeeiRQO&show_recommendations=true

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yeah I think jen just punched her in the mouth. For being "disrespectful."

I don't think Jen would have published that, ie, her bloody tooth. Imo. It dosen't stack up with the perfect savior thing.

Wondering if there was any follow up on social media after the publishing of the bloody tooth?

 

[Stunned]

^^^^^ Is SH's right hand deformed in that photo??

Photo shopped?

 

[Sleuth99]

We have been asking ourselves WHY did CPS believe the women, and doubt there was enough evidence of abuse to take the children out of the home. Cases kept getting ruled as 'unfounded.'

I have to wonder if the social workers looked at their social media, and saw the 'adorably joyful' family photos, and were tricked into believing the phony smiles and togetherness.

I can't imagine social workers having or making the time to examine things like social media or much beyond the information they gather from in person investigation. Unfortunately, I think they they may have been tricked by whatever was presented to them face to face.


IMO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Originally Posted by katydid23
We have been asking ourselves WHY did CPS believe the women, and doubt there was enough evidence of abuse to take the children out of the home. Cases kept getting ruled as 'unfounded.'

I have to wonder if the social workers looked at their social media, and saw the 'adorably joyful' family photos, and were tricked into believing the phony smiles and togetherness.



Respectfully, you guys need to READ the entire CPS report. Nobody was fooled. The language is very clear. The social worker(s) KNEW that the Hart women were manipulative and untrustworthy. They did tons of primary source research. Calls were made to MN, and materials were shared. They faithfully transcribed and reported all interviews with all players. Was the CPS investigation perfect? No, but it's better than I ever would have imagined.

 

[smiley]

In the article that disclosed the bio aunt of the 4 children who were in foster care with the aunt, Dontay, Devonte, Sierra and Jeremiah, it was said Jen and Sarah did not take Dontay, age 9, as he had already been in some trouble. The bio mother later said Dontay is in prison for burglary and didn't know of his siblings deaths

 

[mommylicious]

Sleuth, it might be relevant. I'm just saying that, even if the elder brother had significant behavioral problems, what a devastating thing to have happen on top of it all: Abusive parents, then all your brothers and sisters adopted but you. Never to be heard from again, from what we know. (If he did any "interneting" at all he'd think they were all living fabulous lives.)

It could certainly have added to the, likely many, things that contributed to him ending up where he did. It seems he never had much of a chance in life.

And had he been adopted by the Harts with his siblings, he might have been in that vehicle with them when it went off the cliff.... There are no winners here, but at least he still has a shot to live his life.

 

[human]

Originally Posted by katydid23
We have been asking ourselves WHY did CPS believe the women, and doubt there was enough evidence of abuse to take the children out of the home. Cases kept getting ruled as 'unfounded.'

I have to wonder if the social workers looked at their social media, and saw the 'adorably joyful' family photos, and were tricked into believing the phony smiles and togetherness.



Respectfully, you guys need to READ the entire CPS report. Nobody was fooled. The language is very clear. The social worker(s) KNEW that the Hart women were manipulative and untrustworthy. They did tons of primary source research. Calls were made to MN, and materials were shared. They faithfully transcribed and reported all interviews with all players. Was the CPS investigation perfect? No, but it's better than I ever would have imagined.

This shows how difficult it is to do anything with child abuse. Contrary to what some people put out there, it is not easy.

 

[SATA]

Human, I was horrified when I'd read about this. I can't imagine having all three of my siblings ripped away from me forever and being "left behind". To a child it must have been devastating. I also wonder about why he couldn't/didn't have any interaction with them. Even if the parents were abusive and the idea was that it was best the children never see them again in their lives, what about the brother?

I think it would take something very, very concrete and documented for me to adopt the three siblings and at least not have them have a very distant relationship -write him letters of love and support, etc.

Those kids were treated like dogs from a kennel. I want this pet, this one, hmmm, not this one, this one.

Disgusting. They were little human beings.

The older brother had to deal with losing three siblings when they were adopted and he left behind. It must have destroyed him. He could have had no idea what horrors they went through, but must have imagined them having wonderful lives and that he was not worthy.
And soon, when he learns about their horrible deaths, he will have to go through mourning one more time.
I hope he has some support.

 

[SATA]

Pehaps Jen only shoved Hannah to the ground hard enough for her two front teeth to fall out whole??

The point is I don't believe that those teeth came out in an accident, nor that Hannah didn't want them fixed in the aftermath. Every time Jen opened her mouth lies came out, why are we thinking this story is for real?

"We" are not. I believe Hannah´s front teeth were either knocked out, pulled out or fell out due to some other violent act.
And of course she didn´t want to be toothless for years!

Another thing about Hannah:
.
Someone asked if Hannah had been seen at all after fleeing to the DeKalbs´, sorry, don´t remember who.
I have been wondering a lot about that too.
She was in a bad state before the attempted escape. You have to wonder what was done to her after.


.

 

[gitana1]

"We" are not. I believe Hannah´s front teeth were either knocked out, pulled out or fell out due to some other violent act.
And of course she didn´t want to be toothless for years!

Another thing about Hannah:
.
Someone asked if Hannah had been seen at all after fleeing to the DeKalbs´, sorry, don´t remember who.
I have been wondering a lot about that too.
She was in a bad state before the attempted escape. You have to wonder what was done to her after.


.

Oh man. I never thought about that. Poor kid.

 

[hdva18]

Few links and data: - This is the Twitter account of the now-defunct agency that handled the children adoption from Texas. They showed an ad by the couple seeking adopting 1-3 more children. They used a photo of Markis and Devonte as their profile pic. Their bio reads: Influencing and changing the lives of children by securing supportive, loving, and permanent families for them in Minnesota across state lines. They clearly changed those children's lives! https://twitter.com/permanentfamily - The NGO worked mostly on children from Texas. In 2009, out of 46 children adopted, "35 were from Texas."

My first time posting here. What a gut wrenching saga of these beautiful children. I sincerely hope washington state or California state authorities will posthumously charge these two women with murder. I also hope somehow the adoption will be annulled so that Devonte's parents will be allowed to bury all the kids found so far. If there is a fund to donate for their burial separate from the Hart's, I would be honored to donate to it. One of the two women who ran this so called agency is from North Dakota. Her name is Maryjane Westra. Wonder if she knows Jennifer Hart from before. Wonder if Jennifer Hart and Sara Hart got the idea to adopt kids from TX from her because the founder knows they get paid to raise adopted children. https://www.fergusfallsjournal.com/2008/04/adoption-agency-has-placed-200-children-in-fergus-area/

 

[Momoffourboys]

"We" are not. I believe Hannah´s front teeth were either knocked out, pulled out or fell out due to some other violent act.
And of course she didn´t want to be toothless for years!

Another thing about Hannah:
.
Someone asked if Hannah had been seen at all after fleeing to the DeKalbs´, sorry, don´t remember who.
I have been wondering a lot about that too.
She was in a bad state before the attempted escape. You have to wonder what was done to her after.


.

I wonder, as well, when/who saw Hannah and Devonte last. Its really nagging at me. I just have a feeling they were never in the Yukon the day they up and left.

 

[Mira_Eg]

I don't think Jen would have published that, ie, her bloody tooth. Imo. It dosen't stack up with the perfect savior thing.

Wondering if there was any follow up on social media after the publishing of the bloody tooth?

One of JH's friends commented on behalf of her saying that they (JH and the child) were at the dentist's, sending wishes and thanks for those who were concerned ( meaning if the readers didn't call or showed sympathy or offered help, they could do) !! Commenting in that manner made it as they had rushed to the doctor's clinic immediately and asked a fried to update when JH actually had had time to take a photo of one of the two teeth, posted it to her FB account and carefully worded a post detailing 'her house rules' with some innuendo about the girl's 'clumsy' behaviour then replied and commented at least once before that friend update. All staged imo. A doctor will not allow a patient or a companion to hold a teeth stained with blood.The background of the photo had drawings in colours. I don't think they had sought any medical assistance the same night. Mediocre liar (this JH) imo. Jmo

 

[fridaybaker]

I can't imagine social workers having or making the time to examine things like social media or much beyond the information they gather from in person investigation. Unfortunately, I think they they may have been tricked by whatever was presented to them face to face.
IMO

That's too bad, because so much of life is lived on social media these days.

 

[akazia1978]

Why are we still talking about the teeth and how they came out, there actually was a ton of discussion on the prior threads, and many posters had chimed in saying they knew of something similar happening by accident. Then others chimed in how if took to dentist right away the teeth could have been saved.

Hannah may very well have fallen acvidently and knocked her teeth out but I don't find it likely given all of the rest of the information of abuse allegations, eye witness accounts of behavior we now have and the strange food obsession the Hart "mothers" had.

This is my last post on the teeth issue. My daughter is the one who had a freak accident and knocked her own teeth out. I box, and one of our boxers is a dentist, according to her it happens fairly frequently. When speaking about my daughters teeth, the thing that can happen is that the upper bone can fracture and the teeth cannot be placed back immediately, because the bone has to heal and there is low success in replacing the teeth. I got lucky and my daughter did not need a splint, but a double root canal (which is not cheap). Sometimes the tooth can be saved, sometimes not. I'm still waiting on follow up, due to my daughters age (11) and the fact it was her front teeth, reattachment may not occur. I may have to take a vacation to Mexico to pay for the implants.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

One of JH's friends commented on behalf of her saying that they (JH and the child) were at the dentist's, sending wishes and thanks for those who were concerned ( meaning if the readers didn't call or showed sympathy or offered help, they could do) !! Commenting in that manner made it as they had rushed to the doctor's clinic immediately and asked a fried to update when JH actually had had time to take a photo of one of the two teeth, posted it to her FB account and carefully worded a post detailing 'her house rules' with some innuendo about the girl's 'clumsy' behaviour then replied and commented at least once before that friend update. All staged imo. A doctor will not allow a patient or a companion to hold a teeth stained with blood.The background of the photo had drawings in colours. I don't think they had sought any medical assistance the same night. Mediocre liar (this JH) imo. Jmo

Agree. It was all a cover story. And its so obvious when you realize everything she posts is staged and has a specific purpose. So you ask yourself what was the purpose of all that? It was a CYA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Breamworthy]

Someone asked if Hannah had been seen at all after fleeing to the DeKalbs´, sorry, don´t remember who.
I have been wondering a lot about that too.
She was in a bad state before the attempted escape. You have to wonder what was done to her after.

.

There were several pages of discussion on this, I'm thinking towards the end of the last thread? I remember someone was able to provide the most recent picture from social media, and it was shocking how long ago it was from. It seems almost certain there was a steep and terrible decline since the move to rural Washington. I can go back and see if I can find it.

I can definitely see the possibility that Hannah died of starvation and that's why they reacted differently to the CPS visit this time. On the other hand, Devonte asked for six of everything, which might suggest there were still six children alive and in the house.

 

[mtnlites]

I can't imagine social workers having or making the time to examine things like social media or much beyond the information they gather from in person investigation. Unfortunately, I think they they may have been tricked by whatever was presented to them face to face.


IMO

Once Facebook got popular, that's one of the first things we did in our office. we almost always looked up the families' social media pages. However, none of that was admissable in a report, nor were we able to officially let anything we saw on their pages sway our decisions. The keyword being "officially." You can bet, however, that social workers most definitely look up SM pages, especially those of people who dinged our hinky meters.

 

[mtnlites]

Originally Posted by katydid23
We have been asking ourselves WHY did CPS believe the women, and doubt there was enough evidence of abuse to take the children out of the home. Cases kept getting ruled as 'unfounded.'

I have to wonder if the social workers looked at their social media, and saw the 'adorably joyful' family photos, and were tricked into believing the phony smiles and togetherness.



Respectfully, you guys need to READ the entire CPS report. Nobody was fooled. The language is very clear. The social worker(s) KNEW that the Hart women were manipulative and untrustworthy. They did tons of primary source research. Calls were made to MN, and materials were shared. They faithfully transcribed and reported all interviews with all players. Was the CPS investigation perfect? No, but it's better than I ever would have imagined.

You're right. Something went awry but it definitely was NOT because the social worker didn't do her due diligence. She covered every possible angle, even, as you said, doing research in other states. I've written hundreds of these reports; this worker knew there was abuse in the home and did a very good job of documenting what she found along the way. Many of the details that she includes are not things that were necessary-she included them because she was concerned and wanted them documented.

So why wasn't the case opened? I don't know, but it wasn't the worker's fault. She didn't have final say.