Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[rosemadderlake]

I think everyone on Social Media needs to wake up. Fine, if they want pose themselves in the buff, but innocent children, for every bubbling laughing baby, or posed smiley children, who have no voice, what about them?

For all the photos of my childhood there are none, zip, zero, that have ever been exploited. And there are some photographic gems. One's that run rings around the plebeian snapshots circling the globe.

Back in my day if you weren't in a crowded NYC event covered by the 1A, you had to have permission to publish a photograph. Think about it.

If adults knew this back then, and more importantly why, then what has changed?

I only knew Devonte's global photo covered by the 1A in 2014. Honestly, I thought he was a street kid.

I, as no doubt so many, had no idea he, or his family had a global presence.

I am a self admitted SM Luddite, but also a careful one, because I grew up in a time when your image and words were powerful, and could be used against you.

To see these children used in this manner for fame, is what defines J&S. It's not only a wake up call for "their community" but a wake up call for all.
Jmo

 

[Silver~Bell]

I see Markis, Jeremiah, Devonte, Ciera, and Abigail. I do NOT see Hannah. Based on the leaves on the ground and everyone's size, I would guess this was from Fall 2017. Was Hannah already dead by that time? I wish the cops would seriously look into that possibility.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I have sinking, angry feeling that the truth will not be pursued vigorously. It may be up to us, the caring members of the public, to try to keep this case alive.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

[smiley]

I totally agree with everything you said

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yet, this is most of what we have, Social Media, FB, Instagram, Twitter to figure out this case.

This is J&S's footprint, and their children's message.

I suppose this footprint could be published ipso facto were it not for SM.

But Jen's use and abuse was right there... As was mentioned, right there in plain sight.

I can tell you, there are no festivals here, in my town, in my east coast city, that would cast a benevolent eye on that musician that allowed Devonte to breakdown in tears for what seemed like hours. Oh, no, no, no.

Honestly, we are uptight. Everyone I know? We are not enlightened.

And yes, I know, there's Woodstock, and the reboot, but what is that, 25 years in between?

My problem with the "enlightened ones" has always been about lack of boundaries. And that video of Devonte is case in point.

It's fine if, as an adult, one chooses, but the point is the exploitation of a child. And the adults in this "community" who don't protect them.

It is a philosophical as well as a conservative or liberal view. IMO.

No matter.... You do not expose your children to experiences that they do not understand or cannot handle. Period.

 

[mtnlites]

How would this be handled in a court of law?

What I mean is, let's say they had been charged with (whatever is the right charge for feeding the children way too little), and were in a trial. The prosecution would bring forward the friends as witnesses. The friends would describe the many times they saw the children be denied food, and the school staff would describe the many times the children were hungry. The kids refused to testify against the Harts and the Harts refused to self-incriminate. Is that enough evidence to convict? How about if you throw in the children's weight & height against the charts?

The children's heights and weights would be the real evidence and, with proof that they didn't have any genetic or underlying conditions causing them to be underweight, it would be difficult to deny that they weren't being neglected and abused. Where CPS went wrong in this case was not pursuing it from a medical angle. As I posted earlier, they should have done some basic bloodwork and looked at iron/potassium/magnesium levels, as well as ketones (which would have shown that they were't getting proper nutrition). If any of those were worrisome then they could have gone further and ran some genetic testing and even some gastrointestinal studies to see if there was an issue with absorbtion. There wouldn't be, of course, because the two sets of kids were not related.

They definitely could have gone at it from this angle, but they didn't.

 

[Mira_Eg]

Super interesting thoughts.

It got me thinking about my own perusal of social media. I go super fast. (I read and write here fast as well which is why I have odd typos and strange words sometimes, (autocorrect)). I don't know if I would notice anything off in my friend's posts of their kids as a result. Do most people do more than scan, maybe a nice comment and move on?

Besides the sort of confirmation bias you're describing, could that also be a reason few among her insular circles saw red flags?

Those who had the chance to to interact with the children in person for a longer times noticed more and some (at least two) reported abuse. Some chose to ignore the whole story and any possible consequences/confrontations.
On FB you see others put likes and leave encouraging comments, you do the same/ a form of 'herd mentality'/, because this is the least you can offer to support a member in the same social/ cultural group. You don't dare to question or criticize them, otherwise you will be harshly attacked, ostracised and stigmatized of being an oppressor or a 'naive' person who don't really understand how much suffering these two ladies/ and the kids have been experienced. They think the two women must have been victims of the same society and norms they fight or disapprove. So, don't you ever forget this. This is our main priority now. This is what we can discuss not some fake and staged photo sessions and alleged abuse by a 'respected member'. It is a well established fact in their minds that prevents you from arguing or denying. Any negative comment would be interpreted like that: You are acting like the society, system, world and many other parties the couple and their friends really think they are struggling with. You don't know enough about their lives. You don't respect their 'unique' life style. You are a close-minded person and not cool enough as you claim. You don't belong here..... Note that you don't find any deep discussions on their profiles. Just posts about having fun or whining about the oppressive and cruel world. Very shallow minds imo but ready and have time and resources to rant and defend their 'friends.'
You don't want that of course, so you keep liking and pouring love messages. They stop you from being critical and you don't want to be excluded from a group virtually (online) and physically (not invited to events, no socializing with you /and your family and accusations start: 'you are a traitor, you are not progressive enough, ...etc).
- There is no way people have not noticed these red flags, displayed clearly online and in many encounters that lasted from one week to four week each, they simply kept silent thinking: it is not a big deal; others would do the job and report or this is not my job. I'm here to have fun and party then post about the wonderful life we run away from the traditional life outside my circle/s.

 

[kizzykat]

This is video of the Hart children taken in the Fall time. Year unknown but it appears recent (Markis particularly reflects this).
Hannah is not in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYvTi5iZkCI

Wow. I wonder how this person got access to the uncut video. You can clearly see only the shots looking at the waterfall were intended for public consumption, as the kids don't have their photograph faces on until then.

When you think about multiple takes of that video, you can see that someone weak from starvation (or worse) would likely not be able to participate in this "activity".

EDIT: I just saw someone post that this was a Facebook live video. Seems bizarre to me that Jen would be comfortable recording a video where she couldn't control the finished product.

IMVHO it wasn't a live video, it doesn't have any of the emoji's etc floating across the bottom of the screen. I could be wrong. It is JH's though, pause in the first second and you can see her name on the upper left screen as the person who uploaded it. I stumbled onto it by chance this morning, looking for recent videos of the kids to see if Hannah was there. (I will say it is super easy to find them in snippets on youtube if you search specific festivals and by year.) When I found that one and then saw Hannah wasn't there, I felt sick to my stomach, I had to step away for awhile.

My initial feeling was this was likely posted last Fall, and it's an indicator that JH was losing touch/control/focus, whatever it can be called. Coming undone. No slick editing for appearances before she put it on her FB. Seeing the kids perform for her camera like that...it was like getting a look behind the scenes. Probably everyone else following this case closely has felt this same way at some point, but I just want to turn back the clock and wrap my arms around those kids and tell them it's going to be alright. ;(

 

[mtnlites]

I want to speak up and say something about the Harts' "friends" on social media and the people who "defended" them. In the beginning, almost all of them that I know were coming forward and saying that it was probably an accident. Then, when the police said it was intentional, many of them started changing their tunes. Over the course of the past two weeks, almost all of my mutual friends (mine and the Harts') have stopped defending them. I haven't seen a single post from anyone I know (I've seem them from people I don't know) who are still defending the parents. While I know that those people exist, it's certainly not everyone. Those posts about how they were just misunderstood, how they were saviors, how they must have fallen asleep, etc. are dwindling down to nothing. In the beginning there was even a hashtag created to help spread the word about their innocence. That hashtag hasn't been used in over a week.

I sent my writer friend a message the other day to invite her WS. She and Jen had written extensively and talked about doing a project together. She was one of the ones at the beginning who was really defending the mothers. I asked her how she felt now, and she's pretty much horrified. Now that she's read the CPS reports and seen all of the articles, she no longer believes it was accidental.

You're going to find defensive people in any case. Some people are just going to refuse to see things. I mean, even Charles Manson had a fiance while he was in prison.

There WERE people in the Harts' lives who knew something was off and tried to report them. Many of the people who spent extensive time with them have shared stories about how they saw or felt something and tried to talk to the women about it. We've seen what happened with the reports and anytime the women felt "attacked" they cut those people from their lives.

 

[mtnlites]

That Facebook video. Ugh. No talking, no laughing, no smiles outside of Devonte. That's majorly disturbing.

 

[SATA]

There were several pages of discussion on this, I'm thinking towards the end of the last thread? I remember someone was able to provide the most recent picture from social media, and it was shocking how long ago it was from. It seems almost certain there was a steep and terrible decline since the move to rural Washington. I can go back and see if I can find it.

I can definitely see the possibility that Hannah died of starvation and that's why they reacted differently to the CPS visit this time. On the other hand, Devonte asked for six of everything, which might suggest there were still six children alive and in the house.

We could learn something about the state of the siblings from their autopsies.
Markis was targeted more than other siblings, along with Hanna. What was his weight and general physical state at death?
But then, it could have been all the kids that were being starved leading up to the final disaster.
Devonte said they were starving HIM to death, the golden child who had special privileges. (Which weren´t much! Carrying out trash and such "trusted" chores...)
So most likely all of them in a terrible state.

Those poor kids. So unloved, so tormented.
I wish we had the kids´ "voices". There is nothing from them but staged photo ops. I want to know who they were, their thoughts and dreams, their little quirks as we all have and which make us who we are.
I want to know what they thought of their "moms".

I hate those women.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The children's heights and weights would be the real evidence and, with proof that they didn't have any genetic or underlying conditions causing them to be underweight, it would be difficult to deny that they weren't being neglected and abused. Where CPS went wrong in this case was not pursuing it from a medical angle. As I posted earlier, they should have done some basic bloodwork and looked at iron/potassium/magnesium levels, as well as ketones (which would have shown that they were't getting proper nutrition). If any of those were worrisome then they could have gone further and ran some genetic testing and even some gastrointestinal studies to see if there was an issue with absorbtion. There wouldn't be, of course, because the two sets of kids were not related.

They definitely could have gone at it from this angle, but they didn't.

Absolutely... And the question is why? Why no, H&W, blood to reveal the truth?

I can tell you vegan diet for a child might be much more suspect on the east coast. Even my vegan friends believe it is a philosophy that should be left up to a child, not imposed on them.

One friend in particular is mostly vegetarian by her diet choice, and yet she owns and runs an organic beef farm.

Some of this is regional thinking? IMO.

West coast has always been alternative friendly?

Kids needs are tremendous in their teenage years. Boys are in pain when they grow, girls are newbies to womanhood.

I know it has been mentioned about the disqualifications of naturopaths. We here on the east coast, don't allow them to voice opinions unless they are MDs. In fact, regulation here on the requires a MD. Practioners are not viewed as doctors.

Ironically, in my blue states, we are very conservative about medical care. Alternative lifestyles have a very hard time flying here.

I actually advocate for naturopaths because I believe in homeopathy, for me and my pets, but tell that to any doctor here and you would be politely escorted out of the building!!! LOL!!!

So, region matters... Yes?

We are so uptight on the east coast, we can't wrap our brains around the benefits of MJ, much less the legalizing of same...

 

[SarahW]

While I don't doubt this was rehearsed and it looks super awkward, it was a Facebook live video so take one I guess? Final take?

It's just so silent and weird.

im not convinced she meant to live stream, but I can imagine the stage direction and what it was meant to convey: a sober, silent respectful approach of the living water blah de blah blah blah, followed by irrepressible joy and awe. I'm sure it fell short of expectation, either that or she was blind to fear and the utter freaking lack of spontaneity of joyful, awed children. In this place, the awful presence was Jen.

You can see the anxiety and fear. And the "PLACES EVERYONE" backup implies rehearsal.

 

[kizzykat]

im not convinced she meant to live stream, but I can imagine the stage direction and what it was meant to convey: a sober, silent respectful approach of the living water blah de blah blah blah, followed by irrepressible joy and awe. I'm sure it fell short of expectation, either that or she was blind to fear and the utter freaking lack of spontaneity of joyful, awed children. In this place, the awful presence was Jen.

You can see the anxiety and fear. And the "PLACES EVERYONE" backup implies rehearsal.

I feel it was absolutely rehearsed. When they go down the steps they can go left, straight or right. All 5 of them went to a specific spot on the right. That left JH able to film an unobstructed view of the waterfall and then pan back over to the kids with an unobstructed view of Devonte when it's his turn to smile. Absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Damn, what is so heartbreaking is would anyone have ever questioned this if they were all still alive?

 

[SATA]

This is video of the Hart children taken in the Fall time. Year unknown but it appears recent (Markis particularly reflects this).
Hannah is not in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYvTi5iZkCI

Where is Hannah? Then - and now?

 

[mayabeth]

My problem with the "enlightened ones" has always been about lack of boundaries. And that video of Devonte is case in point.

It's fine if, as an adult, one chooses, but the point is the exploitation of a child. And the adults in this "community" who don't protect them.

this is something that bothers me a lot about Devonte and his free hugs sign (makes me want to scream every picture I see of him with that damn sign). Who encourages their child to make their body and their hugs available to any random stranger they see? That's not beautiful, it's not spreading a message of love. It's treating your child like a therapy dog instead of a human being.

 

[Breamworthy]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I have sinking, angry feeling that the truth will not be pursued vigorously. It may be up to us, the caring members of the public, to try to keep this case alive.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

I think there's a tendency to assume that LE is only doing what they've told us. We don't know - they haven't announced it, but they may well be considering the possibility that Hannah died earlier. I'm sure that given all they've seen, FBI agents will easily realize all the possibilities that have been speculated on here, in addition to others. They may also have dismissed this because they have proof we don't know about that Hannah was alive very recently, or even that she was on the trip - we just don't know.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I can’t shake that walk of shame in the video. Like they were being herded to torture chamber.

 

[mayabeth]

This is beyond terrifying. It feels straight out of a horror movie. So whoever is playing it for us in the youtube video has downloaded onto their computer. All I can say is, thank you, good citizen. Here is proof of the control and stage faces. Was Hannah locked up? Not allowed to participate? They look so skinny here. So depleted. Now you can imagine going to a stranger's house for food. Being marshalled into the car for the last ride.

It does have a horror movie feel. It's the only time we've seen them without their "game faces" on. It's a glimpse into the reality of what it was like in that family. The moment when Devonte turns and looks back at the camera for a second, then whips his head back around real quick is chilling. He looks scared, like he thinks he's going to get punished for looking back.

 

[SATA]

This is beyond terrifying. It feels straight out of a horror movie. So whoever is playing it for us in the youtube video has downloaded onto their computer. All I can say is, thank you, good citizen. Here is proof of the control and stage faces. Was Hannah locked up? Not allowed to participate? They look so skinny here. So depleted. Now you can imagine going to a stranger's house for food. Being marshalled into the car for the last ride.

Yes. Clear as day. Sadly.

I likened their home ("home") to a concentration camp in one of the early threads. I got a lot of criticism for that, and that is all right.
But look at this. The poor kids marching like concentration camp prisoners. FEAR in their faces, HORROR in every movement.

Here they are even marching towards water, like a precursor to what happened later.

The nagging feeling about something terrible having happened to Hannah isn´t nagging after seeing this.
I think that either she was too weak to participate in this - or she was dead or close to dying.