Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[Aescwynn]

Last update I can find is from the 21st and it is unclear.



http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...id-she-never-heard-missing-hannah-hart-speak/

bbm

Did she specify that the remains of the children were cremated and sent to South Dakota, or just Jen's and Sarah's?

Edit: asking anyone who has kept up with Bakhtiar and her various statements to the media.

 

[LeighB]

I was vegan fo some time. It may not be right for you, but, it works and is healthy for some.

I think this is the point. Enforcing a veg*n diet on a group of people (in this case, 6 children) without regard for whether it works for them could result in nutritional deficiencies and growth-stunting even if they're not being starved (although in this case, we do also know that they were not being fed every meal as they should have been).

Someone said earlier that with a veg*n diet, you have to be especially sure not to under-feed, so the combination could have been much worse than even what the Hart women expected with these children, even with their cruel, heartless meal-loss punishments.

I do have a friend who fed her four sons a raw vegan diet and the two younger ones essentially stopped growing. They still looked like 4 year olds when they were 10, 6 year olds when they were 12, 7 year olds when 13 (they did not look like delayed-puberty boys, but like they truly had halted growing and developing). Fortunately, I saw them recently (a few years later) and after a few years of being allowed to eat meat when they want to, they look like normal, healthy teen boys of their age.

Yes, it can be healthy for some, but if you just make your kids do it without regard whether it works for them, that's where the problem is.

 

[LeighB]

Last update I can find is from the 21st and it is unclear.

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...id-she-never-heard-missing-hannah-hart-speak/

bbm

Thank you for that update. I could not believe that the authorities would already have cremated the remains. I would have thought that forensics would still be ongoing at this point, especially with two of the children's bodies still missing. I wonder if there was any truth to Nusheen's statement at all.

 

[staunchcharacter]

Last update I can find is from the 21st and it is unclear.



http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...id-she-never-heard-missing-hannah-hart-speak/

I apologize. Now I'm thinking she had said that in a Facebook comment, not her media interviews.

 

[gcharlie]

And, to this point, I have noticed something else that has seemed off to me for a long time: One of the descriptors we've heard about the Harts is that they "grew their own food". Now, maybe they grew their own food before they moved to Woodland, WA, but I can assure you, they did not do so there. Their little raised plots are typical suburban tomato/lettuce, some herbs and a cucumber plant or two set-up. I am very aware of what it takes to actually "grow your own food" and it is much, much, more substantial for a family of eight.

I've looked at photos of the whole area around the house and I see no evidence of any of it, aside from those little, as yet unplanted, plots. Nada. They had some tomatoes. Period. Just so much more FAKE "image".

I agree with you 100% on this.

Not sure how big those raised bed frames are, but I'm guessing 4 X 4 and 4 X 6.

My sister has a family of 3 and lives in the Northern Kingdom. Their vegetable garden is at least 70 X 100. They harvest more than 100 lbs of potatoes, 16 lbs of dried beans, quarts and quarts of cabbage that was pickled into sauerkraut and on and on and on.

Hart property is 2.19 acres, but the parcel is cut by the road. Footprint for the house is 72 feet long by 24 feet wide. That garden clearing is maybe 24 X 30. If they wanted a serious garden, they should have planted in the open space closer to the road.

 

[staunchcharacter]

I agree with you 100% on this.

Not sure how big those raised bed frames are, but I'm guessing 4 X 4 and 4 X 6.

My sister has a family of 3 and lives in the Northern Kingdom. Their vegetable garden is at least 70 X 100. They harvest more than 100 lbs of potatoes, 16 lbs of dried beans, quarts and quarts of cabbage that was pickled into sauerkraut and on and on and on.

Hart property is 2.19 acres, but the parcel is cut by the road. Footprint for the house is 72 feet long by 24 feet wide. That garden clearing is maybe 24 X 30. If they wanted a serious garden, they should have planted in the open space closer to the road.

They said they grew their own food not that they grew ALL their own food. Also, they could consider working at that farm growing their own food as well. JMO

 

[PrivateEye006]

4. Jen killed the dogs to punish Devonte, who obviously loved them, and all 6 kids were still in the car when it went over.

I thought they found the animals in the house - abandoned... (I will try and find the media link from where I read that...)
Is there something stating different?

 

[staunchcharacter]

I thought they found the animals in the house - abandoned... (I will try and find the media link from where I read that...)
Is there something stating different?

I believe they found two cats and the chickens in/at the house. The dogs have not been located.

 

[castilloisno1]

There were no dogs found in the house. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/lo...theres-not-anything-in-disarray/283-533242315

 

[Jax49]

Any word on the held services of the deceased?

Not sure, but the funeral home that published obits still shows "send flowers to the service" for all six. May not mean anything but thought I'd share since it would seem to indicate the services have not occurred yet.

moo

 

[claudianunes]

Not sure, but the funeral home that published obits still shows "send flowers to the service" for all six. May not mean anything but thought I'd share since it would seem to indicate the services have not occurred yet.

moo

I don't believe the bodies were released to the families at this point since two of children are still missing. I think the "send flowers" option is just available by default. I'm guessing you pay for it and maybe they are delivered once the graves are set up? Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't disagree with the categorization, but I'm saying from Hannah's point of view. I wonder what made her make that connection.


IMO

Probably the cruel way they were treating them-beating with fists and belts, hands up to speak, no laughing at the table, withholding of food, making them sing and dance for Thanksgiving, no medical attention, no friends, made to say yes ma'am, no ma'am, sensory deprivation. Ultimately, sadly their death. Why did they kill themselves and their children if not to hide this?

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/us/hart-family-crash.html

As it has been discussed a lot about JH being the dominant partner, I thought it would be helpful to link this article. JH is described as dictatorial and eccentric. Later in the article it also states she is the more domineering of the couple, as well, so I think this confirms the situation.

 

[Abp5]

Was the family actually vegan or just vegetarian? The CPS report states they were vegetarian. Was saying they were vegan their cover for how tiny the children were?

I don’t believe they were Vegan. JH has a public Pinterest account and she created a Vegetarian board. There aren’t a lot of Pins but the recipes are all labeled Vegetarian and have cheese/butter. It appears she typed ingredients and notes of what to try in her description, including cheese and butter. It seems to be about 6 years old so she could have changed since then. There aren’t any Vegan boards of hers, just Vegetarian. The profile photo is of her and an older woman (perhaps a grandmother).

 

[RickshawFan]

Rickshaw, I find this comment fascinating, and I'm thinking you have a point here. They constantly point out how "alternative-lifestyle-ist" they are; yet, the house and furnishing seem to scream "Suburban Pottery Barn". (Except the Buddhas -I did see one in a photo, but they're pretty trendy with everyone these days.)

And, to this point, I have noticed something else that has seemed off to me for a long time: One of the descriptors we've heard about the Harts is that they "grew their own food". Now, maybe they grew their own food before they moved to Woodland, WA, but I can assure you, they did not do so there. Their little raised plots are typical suburban tomato/lettuce, some herbs and a cucumber plant or two set-up. I am very aware of what it takes to actually "grow your own food" and it is much, much, more substantial for a family of eight.

I've looked at photos of the whole area around the house and I see no evidence of any of it, aside from those little, as yet unplanted, plots. Nada. They had some tomatoes. Period. Just so much more FAKE "image".

Great post. I was actually wondering whether the raised beds were just window dressing, and now you've replied to my thought.

Installing raised bed structures would be the easiest way to create the "look" of vegetable gardening without actually having a garden. Besides, the neighbors don't seem to have seen the kids outside much. Vegetable gardens take a lot of work!

On the other hand, if those aerial photos are in early spring, it may be that the raised beds were intended for growing stuff, but they just hadn't been planted yet.

I haven't had my own vegetable garden, but from looking at neighbors', it does seem as though you'd need a lot of room just for basics for an 8-person family. It would be zucchini every night for dinner. For the kids, at least. Maybe enough strawberries for the 2 adults.

 

[gadgie]

Rickshaw, I find this comment fascinating, and I'm thinking you have a point here. They constantly point out how "alternative-lifestyle-ist" they are; yet, the house and furnishing seem to scream "Suburban Pottery Barn". (Except the Buddhas -I did see one in a photo, but they're pretty trendy with everyone these days.)

And, to this point, I have noticed something else that has seemed off to me for a long time: One of the descriptors we've heard about the Harts is that they "grew their own food". Now, maybe they grew their own food before they moved to Woodland, WA, but I can assure you, they did not do so there. Their little raised plots are typical suburban tomato/lettuce, some herbs and a cucumber plant or two set-up. I am very aware of what it takes to actually "grow your own food" and it is much, much, more substantial for a family of eight.

I've looked at photos of the whole area around the house and I see no evidence of any of it, aside from those little, as yet unplanted, plots. Nada. They had some tomatoes. Period. Just so much more FAKE "image".

I thought the size of the “garden” was suspect too. My grandparents had 5 children and grew the majority of their veggies, fruits, and chickens. Their garden alone was huge and they were constantly canning and freezing things to put up for the rest of the year...enough that they needed 2 chest freezers and outdoor storage for canned goods. There’s no way they did this. Not at this location anyway.


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[fridaybaker]

I agree with you 100% on this.

Not sure how big those raised bed frames are, but I'm guessing 4 X 4 and 4 X 6.

My sister has a family of 3 and lives in the Northern Kingdom. Their vegetable garden is at least 70 X 100. They harvest more than 100 lbs of potatoes, 16 lbs of dried beans, quarts and quarts of cabbage that was pickled into sauerkraut and on and on and on.

Hart property is 2.19 acres, but the parcel is cut by the road. Footprint for the house is 72 feet long by 24 feet wide. That garden clearing is maybe 24 X 30. If they wanted a serious garden, they should have planted in the open space closer to the road.

BBM. Now that is "growing your own food."

 

[fridaybaker]

They said they grew their own food not that they grew ALL their own food. Also, they could consider working at that farm growing their own food as well. JMO

I really don't think them letting people know that "we grown our own food" is in line with what most people do, which is having a little vegetable garden. "We grow our own food", in my mind, bespeaks something substantially more significant. I do what they seemed to do in Woodland, and I'd never consider it "growing my own food". Just my perspective. I think it fits in with all of their posturing and virtue signaling but, again, those are my thoughts on it, that's all.

And: Working (?) on someone else's farm isn't growing one's own food, either, in my book. I can't see most people characterizing it as such. (I'd love to know how they worked. There's something about them that just doesn't look like they know much about farming, which "growing one's own food really is". I'd love to go back in time and ask them about crop rotation, nitrogen fixing, and all the rest.

 

[bluesneakers]

Great post. I was actually wondering whether the raised beds were just window dressing, and now you've replied to my thought.

Installing raised bed structures would be the easiest way to create the "look" of vegetable gardening without actually having a garden. Besides, the neighbors don't seem to have seen the kids outside much. Vegetable gardens take a lot of work!

On the other hand, if those aerial photos are in early spring, it may be that the raised beds were intended for growing stuff, but they just hadn't been planted yet.

I haven't had my own vegetable garden, but from looking at neighbors', it does seem as though you'd need a lot of room just for basics for an 8-person family. It would be zucchini every night for dinner. For the kids, at least. Maybe enough strawberries for the 2 adults.

It would be too early to start planting, but weren't there pictures of seedlings? They would have a jump on their garden planting them instead of starting with seeds. I belong to a community garden where a lot of people use raised beds. As for "We grow our own food" I think it's just something to say instead of "We have a big garden." I have a friend who says she makes her own bread but really she bakes a few loaves a month and buys the rest. It's kind of bragging without exactly being a lie.

As for the Harts considering what they'd need for eight people - like a LOT of beans - it wouldn't be possible on only a few acres. I grew up on a farm and our garden was an acre and it wasn't big enough to get four people through the winter. And yes it was a LOT of work!

 

[fridaybaker]

I thought the size of the “garden” was suspect too. My grandparents had 5 children and grew the majority of their veggies, fruits, and chickens. Their garden alone was huge and they were constantly canning and freezing things to put up for the rest of the year...enough that they needed 2 chest freezers and outdoor storage for canned goods. There’s no way they did this. Not at this location anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gadgie, that's because what your grandparents did was something along the lines of "growing one's own food". There's just nothing in their house or around their yard, in any of their photos, that speak to this. (I think I saw a photo of picking berries once.) (No, picking berries is not "growing your own food"!)

As you said, gardening is extremely time/work intensive. Where are all the photos?