Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #21

[Jackman]

Hi Jackman - please post the link where you found BRE’s height at around 6ft 2 .

The KK attacker was described as below - should this be a description of the accused, height is closer to 6ft.

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MD – Had black, short and very neatly trimmed– wavy hair – height 192cms (6’ 3&#8221– sharp facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

BRE – Had black, short straight hair – Approximate Height 188cm (6’ 2&#8221 – rounded facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

I don't suppose either one had permed their hair.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...fRwv9_3kfF65TW
​

<modsnip>

 

[lampformypath]

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...s/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

&#8220;Bradley Robert Edwards was a tall, dark-haired quiet schoolboy at the southeast Perth coeducational college who finished his senior school year in 1985&#8221;

In this article the accused CSK is described as a tall, dark-haired, quiet school boy. What height would he be? I associate the word tall with someone around six feet or more. MOO


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Hi again Annalise, I think BRE must have been tall for his age as he was in the very back row in his school photo we've all seen, so he would have been one of the tallest boys in his class, if not the tallest. I've attached it again in this article, but if you study it you can clearly see he's taller than his teacher and much taller than most of the other kids? I think he would have been at least 185 cm (6ft tall) as a young adult. Does that eliminate him as MM as the second JR video WAPOL released he looked like a shorter, stocky guy when standing in front of JR? It's important to get his height established, I feel, to rule him out of certain reported crimes in the past? JMO

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...s/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

 

[Chicaletta]

I know not sleuthing but just reflecting - I feel sad for the mums that dont get to be with their girls today (and any day really) and that the beautiful souls will never get to choose the experience of being a mother. I guess one of the reasons we are on here - trying to understand the why?

 

[Annalise]

Hi again Annalise, I think BRE must have been tall for his age as he was in the very back row in his school photo we've all seen, so he would have been one of the tallest boys in his class, if not the tallest. I've attached it again in this article, but if you study it you can clearly see he's taller than his teacher and much taller than most of the other kids? I think he would have been at least 185 cm (6ft tall) as a young adult. Does that eliminate him as MM as the second JR video WAPOL released he looked like a shorter, stocky guy when standing in front of JR? It's important to get his height established, I feel, to rule him out of certain reported crimes in the past? JMO

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...s/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

Hi Lampformypath - it’s difficult to say for sure how tall the accused is but he would be at least six foot. He looks taller than that in a lot of pictures. Especially in the photo with his ex partner. MM looks tall to me. Also hard to see his height against JR because of camera being above them. She definitely had to look up at MM when she saw him and smiled. JMO


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[meticulously]

MD &#8211; Had black, short and very neatly trimmed&#8211; wavy hair &#8211; height 192cms (6&#8217; 3&#8221&#8211; sharp facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

BRE &#8211; Had black, short straight hair &#8211; Approximate Height 188cm (6&#8217; 2&#8221 &#8211; rounded facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

I don't suppose either one had permed their hair.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...fRwv9_3kfF65TW
​

<modsnip>

Hi jackman
Do you have a link for the height of bre at 6"2 or how do you know? is it just your opinion ? TiA.


These are the identikits of mark dixie from the youtube documentary for interests sake Dixie has a similar face they both could fit the description, but the height in particular could point more to one perpetrator...
Picture: compared with the church lane attacker identikit and Bra photos .

https://youtu.be/Idh0IAXhPVs

 

[Annalise]

I know not sleuthing but just reflecting - I feel sad for the mums that dont get to be with their girls today (and any day really) and that the beautiful souls will never get to choose the experience of being a mother. I guess one of the reasons we are on here - trying to understand the why?

Hi Chickaletta - it’s always hard on days like this and around Christmas time or birthdays. As you said you feel sad for the Mums that don’t get to be with their girls today. Had the girls lived they probably would have had children by now - so the parents miss out on the grandchildren too. Yes I also think that’s why we try to find out anything that may be helpful for police to find the person/persons who took the girls away from their loved ones and their lives. To give their loved ones a bit of closure. It’s so horrendous and there is nothing anyone can do to lessen their grief. So being on here is in some way trying to help even if it’s the energy that people put in - that energy can hopefully be seen as showing their loved ones we care about the victims. JMO


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[janwa]

"Theories could injure the hunt"

On the one hand the police want the public ringing in to crime stoppers etc with info, then they say "Theories could injure the hunt". There may be a few people spouting theories but mostly it seems to be concerned members of the public reporting what they have seen.

What if none of the witnesses had come forward including the 3 young men at the bus stop, what did the detectives actually 'detect' themselves. That's what I will be interested in when this finally gets to court.


https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/nightmare-begins-for-third-family-ng-b88337795z

 

[meticulously]

Hi Jackman - please post the link where you found BRE’s height at around 6ft 2 ?

The KK attacker was described as below - should this be a description of the accused, height is closer to 6ft.

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Thanks spinnaker
So he was described as 183cm .
Mr Church Lane even shorter again 178cm / 5"10 ?
Medium to stocky build..

 

[petedavo.au]

Thanks.
I think I now know who MM probably is and I think he does too after the accused was arrested. (There's various plausible reasons that he never twigged that it was him in the CCTV originally) I think MM is a vital witness for establishing three certain elements of circumstance, so I won't discuss the MM video anymore in case doing so might prejudice a fair trial if my guess (based entirely upon information already in these threads, including his probable identity) is correct.

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Don't mean to be disrespectful, but do your own research, as you might come to an entirely different conclusion. The last week of posts, and links, will explain my conclusion adequately enough. Only what happens in court can validate or not any importance my conclusion places upon the MM video.

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I doubt the security would know MM other than as a patron who had just been dropped off up the street by a mate

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Maybe he is the type of person that is that self absorbed, that he couldn't recognise himself in reverse colours, or know what day he was there or not, and chatted up so many girls that he wouldn't remember who she was? Or was simply working overseas?
There's all sorts of plausible reasons, more than there are nefarious ones. Of course the nefarious ones are more intriguing.

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If the accused was dropped off, there's a problem for police, because he's got no car, to allegedly transport JR to where she was found, and there's now a problem to connect the fibres to a car that he didn't arrive in. So no, I don't think MM is the accused, but someone else, that the Accused could've dropped off. IMO

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Interesting theory. I'm reluctant to cast assertions about MM beyond what evidence might support, however if the Police start fossicking around houses in Forrestfield, the bush and the old Forrestfield speedway, then I might revisit MM's involvement or knowledge of the alleged crimes. Until then, good sleuthing to you all, but remember not to prejudice a fair trial.

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If police didn't still know who MM was, they would've mentioned it to the media. Especially since they mentioned other things they're still looking for, like the Camry. I therefore think that the CCTV riddle has been solved and I'll find out if my guess is correct when the witness gives his evidence. IMO

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[lampformypath]

Thanks for that Metic, brilliant! I watched a bit of the video and I was interested in the point from 17.29 on the video where the description of the attacker (Mark Dixie) is given on TV. The height description varied wildly from 5' 9'' to 6ft tall, so it would seem people do struggle to get the height of attackers correct? I would think a bloke that's 6'3" tall would not be confused with one that's 5' 9" but people are in a state of shock of course who have been involved or even witnessed these crimes, so it's not surprising.

https://youtu.be/Idh0IAXhPVs?t=1049

I've also attached a still of MM from the JR video. Admittedly it's a grainy one, but as JR is leaning against a pole (note her bent leg) when MM approaches, I think this still shows
that he isn't an overly tall man? The first video that came out he looked much taller IMO.

Like I said before, frightening to think just how many of these horrible "men" were around at the same time, and the fact that these two look so much alike, scary!

 

[lampformypath]

Hi all, This is why it's important to get it right with descriptions and evidence. The man below spent 12 years in a Spanish jail for crimes Mark Dixie eventually admitted to having committed!

Look a bit similar don't they?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4991311/mark-dixie-murder-sally-anne-bowman-innocent-man-anguish/

 

[janwa]

Cautionary look at at familial DNA

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/nyregion/familial-dna-searching-karina-vetrano.html

 

[Spinnaker]

MD &#8211; Had black, short and very neatly trimmed&#8211; wavy hair &#8211; height 192cms (6&#8217; 3&#8221&#8211; sharp facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

BRE &#8211; Had black, short straight hair &#8211; Approximate Height 188cm (6&#8217; 2&#8221 &#8211; rounded facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle)

I don't suppose either one had permed their hair.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...fRwv9_3kfF65TW
​

<modsnip>

<modsnip> the KK victim description is around 6ft, I am merely asking for your MSM link.

 

[Jackman]

Below is updated information in regard to BREs height. MSM have described him as tall and below is the relevant link. Any other articles containing height estimates have been discarded because the accused hasn&#8217;t been charged with those particular crimes.

BRE &#8211; Black, short straight hair &#8211; * Height described by KK victim as 183cm (6 foot) &#8211; rounded facial features - thick eyebrows (possibly shaved in middle) Note: BREs height is a guesstimate provided by the KK victim &#8211; an unconfirmed height.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...fRwv9_3kfF65TW

http://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/quiet-boy-and-helpful-neighbour-nicknamed-bogsy-is-man-accused-of-claremont-serial-killings/news-story/44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787

Hopefully, this should solve the issue and we can move on.

 

[Spinnaker]

All - I am not being picky or critical by questioning the misrepresentation of BRE's height.

BRE's height is a very important factor when assessing whether he was involved in any pre-cursor or post CSK attacks - can either potentially include or exclude the alleged CSK as being potential perpetrator.

At present the only MSM article mentioning BRE's height is a description by the KK victim - around 6ft.

I think we also bear in mind that he could indeed be shorter - I have also read an article by a journalist mentioning that he looked a lot smaller in court as imagined - looking for this article right now.

 

[El Gordo]

I would not take much notice of witness accounts of peoples heights , weights etc , people are generally reported as being taller and heavier than what they are

 

[Jackman]

I would not take much notice of witness accounts of peoples heights , weights etc , people are generally reported as being taller and heavier than what they are

El Gordo,

Thanks mate. By the way, I enjoy your posts and hope you will start adding regular posts soon.

 

[lampformypath]

I would not take much notice of witness accounts of peoples heights , weights etc , people are generally reported as being taller and heavier than what they are

I agree El Gordo about people reporting things they "think" they see, BUT a person who has actually been raped by an attacker I would think would have a very good idea of how tall someone was and their type of body mass, so the KK victim's estimate of 6' I think can be taken as pretty accurate. Also KK was at the hospital and with WAPOL straight after the attack so it would not be a case of trying to remember back a day or even days later? IMO. And I agree with Spinnaker about trying to get the accused height confirmed some how, but how other than MSM reports with people's "guesstimates"? Would be great if we could get the accused footy profile at the Crocs, but doubt they'd have such records for the "older" lads? It is vitally important to sort out these different "individuals" and factual evidence of height/weight/eye colour would be wonderful, but alas we don't seem to be able to get these. And it seems, even WITH this information, police can still get it wrong as per my previous post about the man in Spain. For what it's worth I think the Church Lane attack sounds very much like MD with the level of violence ​

at the scene of the attack.

If you read reports of MD's crimes he is extremely violent ​

immediately

and doesn't seem to be able to contain himself to hide in any way? In looking into the other crimes that happened at the time of CSK, the MO of each crime really needs to be studied to try and rule anyone in or out. IMO​

 

[Annalise]

Hi everybody - the Church Street attack happened 6 weeks after SS went missing and 6 months before JR went missing. The artists impression of Church Street victim’s attacker to me has a look of BRE but he looks a lot chubbier. He has a beard which may make his face look chubby. Also long hair.

In the MM video the man has neater and shorter hair and no beard. Also looks thin. Could MM be BRE tidied up or a different person?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/c...20180513/f83d79c678795506876b4a8ee74b7ba2.jpg

 

[meticulously]

ALise,
Im Not sure if its a beard , but more like a few days growth of facial hair ?
Pictures of bra compared to the identikit.
Plus merged identikits of church lane attacker and the "half face" from CIA documentary