GUILTY Uk - Emile Cilliers Accused Of Tampering W/ Wife's Parachute, Wiltshire, 5 April 2015

[Tortoise]

Michael Bowes QC said the defendant should be considered “dangerous” and added: “We submit the defendant has shown himself to be of quite exceptional callousness who will stop at nothing to satisfy his own desires, material or otherwise.”

Remanding the defendant in custody until sentencing on June 15th, Mr Justice Sweeney said he would ask for a probation report to be prepared on Cilliers and added: “Because dangerousness plays such a significant part in this sentencing, it does seem to me that I ought, in fairness to the defendant, get a view.”– PA

Army sergeant tried to kill wife by tampering with her parachute

 

[Alyce]

Excellent - I was getting worried there for a mo....

I am guessing that photo might be, as you say, from when he was originally charged, but the journo used it today as didnt have a more up to date one.

 

[Moll]

Sex, lies and payday loans: The parachute murder plot
This is basically the stuff that was in the Mail last autumn, I think. The BBC website is very tabloid these days.

 

[Alyce]

Not surprising, but despicable all the same. More in the article from NS, obviously done just before the verdict.

Some years later, when he was by then married to Victoria Cilliers - the wife he would try to kill - his father was unwell in South Africa.

He needed money for medical treatment, Cilliers told Victoria. She gave him the cash - which he kept for himself.


Parachute plot: The ex-girlfriend who walked away

 

[KarenUK]

This case is being discussed on Jeremy Vines show on Radio 2 now

 

[Shiressleuth]

This case is being discussed on Jeremy Vines show on Radio 2 now

Yeah - I'm listening too. Finally some reporting of it.

 

[Moll]

This case is being discussed on Jeremy Vines show on Radio 2 now

Thanks, Karen.

I picked up the last 10 minutes. The trouble was - at least with that bit - the discussion was so ignorant it wasn't very interesting. There was a very vehement woman who kept saying she was so glad he was being tried at last. 'He has been tried, Madam, twice,' I wanted JV to say, but he didn't.

What did anyone else think of it? Was the first part that I missed any better?

 

[KarenUK]

Thanks, Karen.

I picked up the last 10 minutes. The trouble was - at least with that bit - the discussion was so ignorant it wasn't very interesting. There was a very vehement woman who kept saying she was so glad he was being tried at last. 'He has been tried, Madam, twice,' I wanted JV to say, but he didn't.

What did anyone else think of it? Was the first part that I missed any better?

I wasn't too impressed either, there was a bit of talk about how parachutes work and that unlikelyness of it being an accident, a brief overview of the case, and then a few messages from people saying how their (presumably former) partners had tried to kill them. I wouldnt bother listening to it on the iPlayer if you missed it, put it that way!

 

[Alyce]

Thanks, Karen.

I picked up the last 10 minutes. The trouble was - at least with that bit - the discussion was so ignorant it wasn't very interesting. There was a very vehement woman who kept saying she was so glad he was being tried at last. 'He has been tried, Madam, twice,' I wanted JV to say, but he didn't.

What did anyone else think of it? Was the first part that I missed any better?

I just listened to it now - scrolled it back to the start... I thought it didnt add much to what we know, though might have been of some interest to anyone with no knowledge of the case.
The safety expert sounded very guarded with his answers and often didnt seem to reply to the exact question.
That woman was - well ! for someone who was so angry ( fair enough ) it was surprising that she didnt seem to realise the trial was over. Also, her line about knowing about womanisers, because there is one living in her block of flats. I know it was a serious comment but it came over a bit Victoria Wood.

 

[Legally Bland]

I managed to catch it and agree that it didn't really add much.

I'm sure they said a BBC Wiltshire reporter was there for every day of the trial. It didn't seem like it from the coverage. Maybe there was better reporting on local radio etc.

 

[KarenUK]

I just listened to it now - scrolled it back to the start... I thought it didnt add much to what we know, though might have been of some interest to anyone with no knowledge of the case.
The safety expert sounded very guarded with his answers and often didnt seem to reply to the exact question.
That woman was - well ! for someone who was so angry ( fair enough ) it was surprising that she didnt seem to realise the trial was over. Also, her line about knowing about womanisers, because there is one living in her block of flats. I know it was a serious comment but it came over a bit Victoria Wood.

I'm not really Jeremy Vines biggest fan when it comes to this type of feature, one that sticks in my mind is when he interviewed a few people following the Helen Bailey trial - I wanted to reach into my radio and throttle both him and his interviewee for being so woolly!

 

[Alyce]

I managed to catch it and agree that it didn't really add much.

I'm sure they said a BBC Wiltshire reporter was there for every day of the trial. It didn't seem like it from the coverage. Maybe there was better reporting on local radio etc.

I think that was the same reporter who gave us a mid trial report...and then said he would be * all over it * for the remainder of the trial...and then we never heard from him again.
I do wish he had tweeted from Court, although perhaps he was restricted with that Clause 45 ruling ( cant remember the exact name now ).

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thanks, Karen.

I picked up the last 10 minutes. The trouble was - at least with that bit - the discussion was so ignorant it wasn't very interesting. There was a very vehement woman who kept saying she was so glad he was being tried at last. 'He has been tried, Madam, twice,' I wanted JV to say, but he didn't.

What did anyone else think of it? Was the first part that I missed any better?

I agree. A waste of time - however it has made me google Stephen Hilder's 2003 incident. The coroner gave an open verdict on his death. I would not be surprised if that gets looked at again and there was a similar case in '97 in the states.

 

[KarenUK]

I agree. A waste of time - however it has made me google Stephen Hilder's 2003 incident. The coroner gave an open verdict on his death. I would not be surprised if that gets looked at again and there was a similar case in '97 in the states.

Oh wow I'd forgotten that (I must have been making the tea when that came up as I didnt hear it), its a bit off topic but here is a video that includes him laughing and joking just before his "suicide" and actual footage of the first part of his jump

 

[Tortoise]

But reviews of alleged encounters with the balding serviceman posted on Fab Swingers appear to show the physical training instructor was cheating on his wife throughout their six-year marriage.

...Mrs Cilliers would have been pregnant with their first child when the alleged rendezvous took place.

On his profile, Cilliers lists his interests as group sex, spanking, dogging, voyeurism, threesomes, S&M and swingers clubs. Several others were not suitable to print in a family newspaper.

Describing himself, Cilliers wrote: 'I am a very well-endowed male and I like to keep in shape and have a very athletic body.

'A muscly man who likes to keep in shape is looking for some sensual fun. I always say, try anything at least once!!!

'If I catch your eye and want to know more just wink or send your questions.

'Looking for regular meets with couples and females. Ideally I would like a *advertiser censored** buddy to have some regular fun with and to possibly take to Swingers clubs.'

Emile Cilliers picked up women on kinky swingers' site | Daily Mail Online

 

[Tortoise]

At heart, Hare’s test is simple: a list of 20 criteria, each given a score of 0 (if it doesn’t apply to the person), 1 (if it partially applies) or 2 (if it fully applies). The list in full is: glibness and superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, cunning/manipulative, lack of remorse, emotional shallowness, callousness and lack of empathy, unwillingness to accept responsibility for actions, a tendency to boredom, a parasitic lifestyle, a lack of realistic long-term goals, impulsivity, irresponsibility, lack of behavioural control, behavioural problems in early life, juvenile delinquency, criminal versatility, a history of “revocation of conditional release” (ie broken parole), multiple marriages, and promiscuous sexual behaviour. A pure, prototypical psychopath would score 40.

A score of 30 or more qualifies for a diagnosis of psychopathy.

How to spot a psychopath

Shall we tick them off? I think I get to 32, because I don't know anything about early life, juvenile delinquency, criminal versatility or broken parole.

 

[Tortoise]

At heart, Hare’s test is simple: a list of 20 criteria, each given a score of 0 (if it doesn’t apply to the person), 1 (if it partially applies) or 2 (if it fully applies). The list in full is: glibness and superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, cunning/manipulative, lack of remorse, emotional shallowness, callousness and lack of empathy, unwillingness to accept responsibility for actions, a tendency to boredom, a parasitic lifestyle, a lack of realistic long-term goals, impulsivity, irresponsibility, lack of behavioural control, behavioural problems in early life, juvenile delinquency, criminal versatility, a history of “revocation of conditional release” (ie broken parole), multiple marriages, and promiscuous sexual behaviour. A pure, prototypical psychopath would score 40.

A score of 30 or more qualifies for a diagnosis of psychopathy.

How to spot a psychopath

Shall we tick them off? I think I get to 32, because I don't know anything about early life, juvenile delinquency, criminal versatility or broken parole.

Make that 34.

Criminal versatility = gas leak didn't work so book a parachute jump.

 

[Tortoise]

Why do we suppose he wasn't charged with the attempted murder of the baby and child? It seems a bit contradictory that it could be attempted murder of VC but not all three in the house.

It's even more confusing that the jury wasn't unanimous on the endangerment charge. I do wonder if the dissenting 2 thought to themselves that if the CPS weren't sure he also attempted to murder the children, how could they be sure he meant to endanger them. It may have been a case of them thinking the charge was wrong.

I also wonder if the CPS didn't charge attempted murder of the children because it would have been hard to show a motive, and his follow up plan didn't include the children.

 

[Alyce]

I would go with 34 .....

and, whilst we dont know about any actual juvenile delinquency, he certainly had an early track record for cheating and crossing the line, having relationships with under age 13 year olds, when he was 16

 

[Tortoise]

I would go with 34 .....

and, whilst we dont know about any actual juvenile delinquency, he certainly had an early track record for cheating and crossing the line, having relationships with under age 13 year olds, when he was 16

Yes I'll give him 1 for that and another 1 for trying to go to South Africa at Christmas, which was probably an attempt to flee. So I make that 36.