GUILTY FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #4 *Arrest*

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I am curious. Some people think strong punishment is the answer to problems.

Have people in their own lives had positive experiences because of punishment? If your parents hit you , beat you, or put you in a closst, did that lead to you having a happy life?

If your spouse beat you, did that improve your behavior and make you feel good?

If a friend berates you, does that make you feel good and changes the way you do things?
 
I am curious. Some people think strong punishment is the answer to problems.

Have people in their own lives had positive experiences because of punishment? If your parents hit you , beat you, or put you in a closst, did that lead to you having a happy life?

If your spouse beat you, did that improve your behavior and make you feel good?

If a friend berates you, does that make you feel good and changes the way you do things?



Having problems in ones life and murdering 17 innocent people is not quite the same to me.

He is a cold blooded murderer.
 
Having problems in ones life and murdering 17 innocent people is not quite the same to me.

He is a cold blooded murderer.

Yup. But I am talking about the PROMISE program which was referenced earlier .
 
I feel he needs intensive therapy. Being tough on someone does not fix their issues.

I don't doubt that. ZC needs mental therapy, occupational therapy, I don't mean basket weaving, either.

And it sounds like he could benefit from structure in his life right now.

Anything to overcome his present life of crime, learn respect, which includes respecting the law, respecting property, earn his way through life.

I am opposed to the concept of trust funds for children for many reasons but that falls outside the scope of this thread and WS is probably not the best place for that to be discussed.

MOO
 
I don't doubt that. ZC needs mental therapy, occupational therapy, I don't mean basket weaving, either.

And it sounds like he could benefit from structure in his life right now.

Anything to overcome his present life of crime, learn respect, which includes respecting the law, respecting property, earn his way through life.

I am opposed to the concept of trust funds for children for many reasons but that falls outside the scope of this thread and WS is probably not the best place for that to be discussed.

MOO

Does driving without a licence equal a 'life of crime'?
 
Suspending troubled kids does nothing beneficial. It leaves them bored with more time to get in trouble.

If facilitates falling further behind academically, increasing frustration levels and eroding self esteem

For single family home it create a whole host of other problems - if mom or dad has to miss work cause the child is home -- financial problems parent can get fired exacerbating an entire situation.

The notion that throwing kids on the street after acting out bad feeling states does nothing helpful. In reality my kids, most of the time got in more trouble mom had to go to work.

The notion that for a child whom is having problems - finding school frustrating and negative while having problems with peers being discarded does nothing helpful

In addition the notion that not having to go to a setting they find fraught with rejection frustration feelings of inadequacy is not a punishment -- it is a relief for these kids - to get out of a very negative experience for our troubled youth.

Suspension and expulsion for sure -- adds to the problem on many levels imo

Obama's vision was humane and an effort to break the cycle as far as troubled youth goes.

agreed. It's worth a shot. Give him a chance. I hope it works out for him.
 
I am totally pulling for Zachary. Sometimes leaving the state is just what a kid needs to start over.
 
Regardless of what state he is in, he is still going to be the same person he is.

Maybe sending positive vibes would serve him better than automatically writing him off as someone who cannot change. JMO

have you never heard of someone having the chance to start fresh and being able to turn their life around?
 
Maybe sending positive vibes would serve him better than automatically writing him off as someone who cannot change. JMO

have you never heard of someone having the chance to start fresh and being able to turn their life around?

Presumably I am entitled to my own opinion. Anyway, time will tell.
 
Parkland shooter's brother wants anti-bullying campaign
Zachary Cruz says bullying a factor in shooting

By DAKIN ANDONE, CNN

(CNN) - The brother of the gunman who killed 17 people at a Florida high school says he wants to dedicate himself to ending bullying, and that he believes bullying contributed to his brother's actions.

"Because my brother didn't really fit in with a lot of people and I saw the effects of that, like, firsthand," Zachary Cruz told CNN affiliate WPEC outside of an animal boarding house in Green Acres, Florida, on Sunday morning. "It's a real issue so I just want to try to change that." ...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/parkland-shooters-brother-wants-antibullying-campaign
 
Parkland shooter's brother wants anti-bullying campaign
Zachary Cruz says bullying a factor in shooting

By DAKIN ANDONE, CNN

(CNN) - The brother of the gunman who killed 17 people at a Florida high school says he wants to dedicate himself to ending bullying, and that he believes bullying contributed to his brother's actions.

"Because my brother didn't really fit in with a lot of people and I saw the effects of that, like, firsthand," Zachary Cruz told CNN affiliate WPEC outside of an animal boarding house in Green Acres, Florida, on Sunday morning. "It's a real issue so I just want to try to change that." ...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/parkland-shooters-brother-wants-antibullying-campaign

Here is what RD's ex-husband claims.
"“My son told me that he hides under the couch for protection when he is left alone with him,” Paul Gold posted."
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/...irginia-documents-say/jEGOgxZB0XdjBN6JhvwbfP/
 
Hearing for accused Florida school shooter, Nikolas Cruz, rescheduled

"...A status hearing on the murder and other charges facing 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz that had been scheduled Friday in Fort Lauderdale will now take place June 21....

No trial date has been set for Cruz. He faces the death penalty if convicted. His attorneys have said he would plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence...."

Hearing for accused Florida school shooter, Nikolas Cruz, rescheduled
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School shootings and mental health: Inside the minds of mass shooters
THESE MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS AND METHODS ARE BEING USED TO HELP KEEP AT-RISK STUDENTS FROM TURNING INTO POTENTIAL MASS SHOOTERS.

"It's been nearly two decades since a pair of teens walked into a high school and carried out one of the worst mass shootings in the nation's history.

But the debate on school safety, guns and mental health sparked by the 1999 Columbine High School shooting rages on. From Columbine to Sandy Hook, and most recently Santa Fe, innocent lives are still being lost in record numbers each year. Similar to past high-profile shootings, the latest has prompted a renewed debate about what more can be done to identify students grappling with mental health issues before they turn violent.

It may be easy to dismiss these shooters as simply "evil" or "deranged," as U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz did when he referred to 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis. The teen is accused of fatally shooting 10 people and injuring 10 others at the Texas high school near Galveston last week.

But mass shooters can't just be hastily categorized as either “bad or mad,” experts say. It’s just not that simple, according to research published by the American Psychiatric Association..."

School shootings and mental health: Inside the minds of mass shooters
---

Mass Shootings and Mental Illness

"...Mass shootings understandably create outpourings of public horror and
outrage. Nevertheless, and contrary to common media depictions and the general
public’s beliefs, mass shootings are extremely rare events. These tragedies
are influenced by multiple complex factors, many of which are still poorly understood.
However, the lay public and the media typically assume that the perpetrator
has a mental illness and that the mental illness is the cause of these highly
violent acts of horrific desperation. Although some mass shooters are found to
have a history of psychiatric illness, no reliable research has suggested that a
majority of perpetrators are primarily influenced by serious mental illness as
opposed to, for example, psychological turmoil flowing from other sources. As a
result, debate on how to prevent mass shootings has focused heavily on issues
that are 1) highly politicized, 2) grossly oversimplified, and 3) unlikely to result in
productive solutions.

In this chapter, we discuss the existing research, limited though it may be, on
mass shootings and then examine the nature of the link between gun violence
and mental illness. We consider the value of gun laws focusing on mental illness,
with attention to their potential efficacy in preventing future mass shootings. We
conclude by proposing that instead of the focus on mental illness, increased attention
should be paid to sociocultural factors associated with mass shootings
and exploring other interventions and areas for further research...."

Psychiatry Online
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^^^^^^ Good articles, Yes or No, thanks-
Important comment in the book:

The book notes some common traits among shooters and historical factors that contributed to the deadly events. A detailed case study of five mass murderers shows that during childhood, the shooters began to see people as generally rejecting and uncaring.

Again, I believe this sense of self-acceptance must begin at home. Many of these young
shooters were left to their own devices in their home environments. Emotionally
neglected and time spent with loving, caring parents was sparse.
 
enelram

I believe you are correct about how much time is spent with these children and being emotionally neglected. How much time parents spend with their children is crucial for some children- they need that so they can "see" their self-worth- thru their parents eyes- if you know what I mean. Some children don't need it as much as other children.

It's a shame that the parents couldn't see that something was going wrong in their child's life. Not that I'm blaming the parents- they do what they can and what seems right at the time. They just don't realize how important their interactions are needed by those children.

Have you ever watched the movie Beautiful Boy- the 2010 movie with Michael Sheen? It's a heartbreaking story, IMO. It's about a long-estranged couple still going through the motions, comfortably middle class , and contemplating divorce. They awake one morning- in separate beds- to learn that their only son has blown his brains out after doing the same to almost two dozen of his college classmates. The story ripped me apart- what the parents go through after- I feel for them- as no one really thinks about the parents in these cases. The emotional experience of being the monster's mom and dad is so terrible- there's guilt, loss, bafflement, and rage at what their son did and blame by both the parents of each other. How do you ever deal with knowing your kid has murdered others- not only do you have the grief that the other parents have, but you get to add in guilt that they may have contributed to their child's becoming this monster. Tragic.

BEAUTIFUL BOY (2011) - Official Movie Trailer

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For victims' families, no easy answer on whether the ordeal of a death penalty case is worth it

"The parents of the murdered students of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School have been asked — directly by prosecutors, indirectly by defense lawyers, and while talking amongst themselves — whether the young man responsible for mercilessly slaughtering their children should be executed for the crime.

At stake is more than just the life of the killer, Nikolas Cruz. Whenever the death penalty is ordered in Florida, the case is automatically appealed, guaranteeing the victims’ families will be locked with Cruz in a lengthy process that can take years or even decades to resolve.

It’s a position no one envies, but some who have been through similar ordeals say the Parkland parents cannot give a wrong answer, no matter what they decide.

The South Florida Sun Sentinel talked to family members of three victims whose accused killers faced the death penalty. They agreed that the process is long, grueling and takes an emotional toll. Yet none regret their decisions to ask prosecutors to seek a death sentence..."

For victims' families, no easy answer on whether the ordeal of a death penalty case is worth it
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