OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Sojourn]

LM has stated in another video though when he was talking about BJM and I’m loosely quoting this, something along the lines of if it was family who did murdered Dana, he’d kill them himself jo matter who did it. Again, loosely quoting. I’ll find the video.

Yes I’m aware. Ive seen the video . Lm strikes me as a excellent poker player .
Put yourself in his shoes for a minute . How far would someone go to protect their loved ones ? For me , lying would be the least of my worries . You would have to admit he makes some odd statements . “We have no revenge in our hearts” goes directly against “ he,d kill them himself no matter who did it .
This is Jmo . I have a hard time buying what he,s selling .

There’s a lot of people lying that just doesn’t make sense imo.
In order for me to understand what’s happened , ive tried to understand where lm was coming from in his odd statements .

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes I’m aware. Ive seen the video . Lm strikes me as a excellent poker player .
Put yourself in his shoes for a minute . How far would someone go to protect their loved ones ? For me , lying would be the least of my worries . You would have to admit he makes some odd statements . “We have no revenge in our hearts” goes directly against “ he,d kill them himself no matter who did it .
This is Jmo . I have a hard time buying what he,s selling .

There’s a lot of people lying that just doesn’t make sense imo.
In order for me to understand what’s happened , ive tried to understand where lm was coming from in his odd statements .

No, I agree. I’ve actually went through articles and noted all the conflicting statements on behalf of many players, even LE. It’s very confusing to try to wrap your mind around.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

RSBM/BBM
Its this video, at the top of the article. Near the 4 minute mark, a reporter asked LM IF JM & JW were friends. LM replies-no, well I mean went to derbies and stuff together-paraphrasing.

Rhoden relative on lack of arrests: Investigators 'couldn't catch a cold'

Thank you Mitten. I knew I heard or read it somewhere, but I am getting old and although I can remember what I read I sometimes cannot remember where I read it. Sigh.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes I’m aware. Ive seen the video . Lm strikes me as a excellent poker player .
Put yourself in his shoes for a minute . How far would someone go to protect their loved ones ? For me , lying would be the least of my worries . You would have to admit he makes some odd statements . “We have no revenge in our hearts” goes directly against “ he,d kill them himself no matter who did it .
This is Jmo . I have a hard time buying what he,s selling .

There’s a lot of people lying that just doesn’t make sense imo.
In order for me to understand what’s happened , ive tried to understand where lm was coming from in his odd statements .

So I read this again and tried to put myself in his his shoes. But I can’t. I can’t fathom what any family members have been dealt.

I don’t know what he’s trying to sell. I see a man approaching his elder years who seems to know something but has never taken the step further to say what he knows on camera. I don’t know if that’s his character, to talk a big game and then when it comes time to play, reply with “I’m not gonna say”

For me, lying would be one of my worries. However, in general, I’m a call it as I see it type of person. I don’t lie and pride myself on being an honest person. I would have revenge in my heart. And I’d also scream from the rooftops if I knew something about who murdered my family. And well, I would never protect anyone, no matter if it was my child, The Pope, or someone I was scared of. I’d rather be in fear for talking than have my conscience eating away at me for protecting someone I knew was guilty.

I don’t know what LM’s m.o. is. I don’t know him as a person and I don’t know if maybe he’s confused by conflicting things he’s been told. Or maybe he’s just angry because he lost so many people he loved and Then he talks in circles with word vomit.

His phrase “They couldn’t catch a cold” is however one that I hope to use one day because it’s one of the wittiest things I’ve heard.

 

[molly1255]

From the article I share above

“Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours." Published 7/29/16

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

Then the statement changed to:

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when Hanna Rhoden's daughter went to stay with her father, Jake Wagner. Rhoden dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016. Edited on 10/25/16

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/91496698

IIRC, KR2 shares the 9am return time in one of the many articles BUT I have yet to track it down.

Anyways, there’s zero doubt in my mind that he changed his story and back tracked a week to saying he got S 4/15 and I’m sure he did get S on 4/15. I don’t know why the story changed but the first statement, he clearly stated “I reckon we missed it by hours” . IMO, no matter which way the story is spun of pick up/drop off, I reckon he missed the murder by hours. For some reason, his first statement puts him in direct contact with HMR in the hours before her and her family being murdered. The second, corrected statement has him not being around the R’s the night before the murders.

ETA-another part of his story, shared in an email June, 2017.

“Neighbors and some family members have said that Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden were involved in a contentious custody dispute related to Sophia at the time of the killings. Both Wagners denied that.

Rather, Angela Wagner said the couple wanted to legally formalize their agreed-upon shared custody arrangement. After they split up, each parent had custody of Sophia for one week, usually alternating each Saturday.

However the week before the killings, Rhoden dropped Sophia off on Friday, April 15, Wagner said. He was to return the towheaded toddler to her mom the following Friday, which was April 22 – the day the bodies were discovered.”

Why were properties searched in mass-killing probe? Owners say they don't know

I definitely think HR dropped off SW on 4/15 and I believe LE has verified this. IMO, he lied and his mother found a way to get the story corrected, because she knew this lie was a big deal with LE. He may have told LE the same lie and they weren't buying it.

This sort of reminds me of Scott Peterson saying he went fishing in San Francisco Bay on the day his wife went missing, and then the bodies are later found in the Bay. I think that like SP, JW was worried that someone saw him at DR's home that night and he had to come up with an innocent-sounding reason to have been there.

I do believe he was there earlier the night of the murders, because he has put himself there, with his own words. If there was no custody exchange that night, what excuse did JW have for going over to DR's home? He was a former boyfriend and he was also a foe in a custody dispute. HR was recovering from childbirth and taking care of her baby. If I put myself in HR's position, the last person I would want to see at 10:30 at night would be JW, and especially so if my mother was not at home to help me.

JMO.

 

[Sojourn]

I think we would

So I read this again and tried to put myself in his his shoes. But I can’t. I can’t fathom what any family members have been dealt.

I don’t know what he’s trying to sell. I see a man approaching his elder years who seems to know something but has never taken the step further to say what he knows on camera. I don’t know if that’s his character, to talk a big game and then when it comes time to play, reply with “I’m not gonna say”

For me, lying would be one of my worries. However, in general, I’m a call it as I see it type of person. I don’t lie and pride myself on being an honest person. I would have revenge in my heart. And I’d also scream from the rooftops if I knew something about who murdered my family. And well, I would never protect anyone, no matter if it was my child, The Pope, or someone I was scared of. I’d rather be in fear for talking than have my conscience eating away at me for protecting someone I knew was guilty.

I don’t know what LM’s m.o. is. I don’t know him as a person and I don’t know if maybe he’s confused by conflicting things he’s been told. Or maybe he’s just angry because he lost so many people he loved and Then he talks in circles with word vomit.

His phrase “They couldn’t catch a cold” is however one that I hope to use one day because it’s one of the wittiest things I’ve heard.

ive had a hard time replying to your post . Ive written one then deleted it . I dont want to sound like I’m defending mo . You have your opinion and thats your right , and I respect that .
My opinion is no way fact . Ive been trying to understand what’s happened by the the things we know .

We as human being react differently to different things , and culture and upbringing can play a good roll in how we react .
Example if these murders happened to my family and me I would need a lot of drugs and possibly hospitalization, you most likely would not see me for several months , no less have any meaningful conversation with me .
Many of the deceased family members did react in this way. And some acted in the exact opposite . Does this make them guilty ? Of coarse not . But to me it raises eyebrows .
In short , reactions and statements are suspect imo . And deserve to be looked at .

Le knows way more then we do , and I tend to agree with them .

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think we would

ive had a hard time replying to your post . Ive written one then deleted it . I dont want to sound like I’m defending mo . You have your opinion and thats your right , and I respect that .
My opinion is no way fact . Ive been trying to understand what’s happened by the the things we know .

We as human being react differently to different things , and culture and upbringing can play a good roll in how we react .
Example if these murders happened to my family and me I would need a lot of drugs and possibly hospitalization, you most likely would not see me for several months , no less have any meaningful conversation with me .
Many of the deceased family members did react in this way. And some acted in the exact opposite . Does this make them guilty ? Of coarse not . But to me it raises eyebrows .
In short , reactions and statements are suspect imo . And deserve to be looked at .

Le knows way more then we do , and I tend to agree with them .

Honestly, I think we are saying the same thing but using different words. And yes, I too would need to be medicated if this were to happen to my family, God forbid. I don’t even know what I think anymore about who killed this family. It’s one big CF. And there’s no transparency anywhere, not even with LE. I understand their need of protecting the integrity of a case but my goodness, there’s a difference in protecting integrity and being so evasive that it causes 1000’s of people looking in to have so much confusion.

 

[Dudly]

I definitely think HR dropped off SW on 4/15 and I believe LE has verified this. IMO, he lied and his mother found a way to get the story corrected, because she knew this lie was a big deal with LE. He may have told LE the same lie and they weren't buying it.

This sort of reminds me of Scott Peterson saying he went fishing in San Francisco Bay on the day his wife went missing, and then the bodies are later found in the Bay. I think that like SP, JW was worried that someone saw him at DR's home that night and he had to come up with an innocent-sounding reason to have been there.

I do believe he was there earlier the night of the murders, because he has put himself there, with his own words. If there was no custody exchange that night, what excuse did JW have for going over to DR's home? He was a former boyfriend and he was also a foe in a custody dispute. HR was recovering from childbirth and taking care of her baby. If I put myself in HR's position, the last person I would want to see at 10:30 at night would be JW, and especially so if my mother was not at home to help me.

JMO.

I have always wondered if his comments about being there that night was an "attention getter" to sound like a near casualty. Look at me, I could have been murdered, too! Then the Ws realized that was not a good comment to make, putting yourself at a murder scene...

 

[rsd1200]

I have always wondered if his comments about being there that night was an "attention getter" to sound like a near casualty. Look at me, I could have been murdered, too! Then the Ws realized that was not a good comment to make, putting yourself at a murder scene...

I have been curious about this same thing, re; a couple other folks near misses, too.

 

[molly1255]

I have always wondered if his comments about being there that night was an "attention getter" to sound like a near casualty. Look at me, I could have been murdered, too! Then the Ws realized that was not a good comment to make, putting yourself at a murder scene...

You could be right, Dudley. If he made it up to get attention, that was rather stupid of him to do!

I don't know. It seems very strange that someone who had to know that they were a person of interest would put himself at a murder scene just a few hours before it happened. Whether he was there or not may be something LE knows that we don't know. I think it is very suspicious.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

You could be right, Dudley. If he made it up to get attention, that was rather stupid of him to do!

I don't know. It seems very strange that someone who had to know that they were a person of interest would put himself at a murder scene just a few hours before it happened. Whether he was there or not may be something LE knows that we don't know. I think it is very suspicious.

It does seem to be a strange thing to make up, but I suppose people have done stranger things. A lot of times, people come out of the woodwork when there’s tragedy because they seek attention. Like people who say they know a deceased person real well because that person was their uncles cousins neighbor. I don’t know though about JW because he did know the family well and had a child that is part of that family. I don’t know why that article wasn’t corrected but the other one was. Maybe an oversight.

 

[rsd1200]

It does seem to be a strange thing to make up, but I suppose people have done stranger things. A lot of times, people come out of the woodwork when there’s tragedy because they seek attention. Like people who say they know a deceased person real well because that person was their uncles cousins neighbor. I don’t know though about JW because he did know the family well and had a child that is part of that family. I don’t know why that article wasn’t corrected but the other one was. Maybe an oversight.

Look at the folks who come forward and say they committed a crime when they didn't. That just blows my mind. It's another reason they keep key details quiet, so as to easier weed out those types.

Not that they are making things up, but, maybe they are young, and seeing themselves as Potential #9s, had they decided to stay over, with their relatives that night. This was a family who spent the night with each other quite often. Lots of cousins, close in age, will do that. It may not have been planned, per se, but a fleeting thought, then they went on their way. Survivor's Guilt, in other words.

We've got HHG's sister who decided to drive past UHR that night. Did she call HHG, and let her know she wasn't coming? What time? Did all seem alright at the time? Was anyone out of the norm, there? Was HHG expecting her sis, or was this just a fleeting thought, so she threw a bag in the car, jic, but then changed her mind? Maybe little B being there changed her mind. He had the couch because there wasn't a bedroom fixed for him yet.

KR2 said she'd planned to spend the night with HMR, so, she and bf, follow her home. Why? Why not just jump in with HMR? KR2's bf then gets a toothache, so she rode back with him, instead of them stopping, and KR2 getting in the car with HHG. Then KR2 took a babysitting job. Who was the job with, and who is the bf? Did HMR seem upset about anything? KR2 never mentions S being there. (She does mention HHG watching K at some point, for them to go fishing, which is kinda odd, to me. K would have been three days old and was breastfed.) Was spending the night, just a thought, in case her bf didn't want to hang around, and then take her back home? In other words, it wasn't a definitive plan.

DS, he apparently didn't have a car at the time. He says that he was supposed to spend the night with KR. He didn't. Who picked him up? What time? Did they see KR, and all seemed well? Was someone else there who took DS home? Who? Did KR take him home? Why change his mind? Was KR a cover for DS to stay with someone else? A gf perhaps? And he never truly planned to stay there at all? After they find KR, he had to come clean that he didn't stay there.

Then there's JW, whose initial statement, in the interview, was corrected, but he was not planning to spend the night, either way. B's mother probably would not have seen his vehicle at DRs at 10:30 because she left at 10:30 and would have likely gone south on UHR, not passing DRs. It was at least a :40 min drive, so she probably got there around 9:30 ish and got back home by 11:15 or so.

There's not going to be much traffic on that road after midnight. I'd bet, anyone with a security cam, checked their cams that next day, too, as news broke. I would have! Also, the ones who have said that they had overnight plans with the victims, and/or were the last to see them alive, or talked to them via internet/text/phone, have likely been heavily questioned. I doubt we'll know everything til a trial.

I will say this about the Ws, if that family did this, it wouldn't be the first time that a murderer was given custody of a child, but was later arrested, and prosecuted. If they have no proof, that JW was involved, they couldn't keep her from him, at that time.

Just rambling.

 

[Sojourn]

Let me try to be clear. I realize in in my last post that I was somewhat vague .

Being that I’m somewhat new to the forum I’m not sure what I should or shouldn’t say on this forum . Yes , ive read the rules . And found them alittle confusing, but being a decent person with common sense ill probably be fine .

Although I’m new to this forum I’m not new to this case . Ive followed it from the beginning . Ive been confused, ive researched , ive gone down rabbit holes , and my theories have changed . Ive talked and discussed enough to finally say to myself ENOUGH ! Who did this ?

I do believe there is enough information here to make a call on who your suspects are . Or if you like your opinion on who did it .

My opinion and theory was on my first post a page or so back . I dident arrive at it nilly Willy - lm statements knawed at me from the beginning , until it dawned on me trying to come to a conclusion .

Its quite possible we are not all here for the same reasons. Sometimes I forget that . I am by nature a problem solver , but only for things that interest me .

And at the risk of sounding bold- i want to solve it . For no other reason other then to move on . Trying to make logic out of insanity is tough business , draining and time consuming .


It’s been 2 plus years . We’ve haven’t had any new information in a year plus . There’s a good chance we may never see anymore information come again until arrest . Or maybe never .

It’s my opinion sitting on the fence being in limbo is the worst place to be in any givin situation . It is better to make a decision and be wrong and apologize later if need be .

Rehashing over minut details over and over has been done . Push has come to shove . WHO did this ?

And that in my opinion of where we should be .

 

[Satchie]

Let me try to be clear. I realize in in my last post that I was somewhat vague .

Being that I’m somewhat new to the forum I’m not sure what I should or shouldn’t say on this forum . Yes , ive read the rules . And found them alittle confusing, but being a decent person with common sense ill probably be fine .

Although I’m new to this forum I’m not new to this case . Ive followed it from the beginning . Ive been confused, ive researched , ive gone down rabbit holes , and my theories have changed . Ive talked and discussed enough to finally say to myself ENOUGH ! Who did this ?

I do believe there is enough information here to make a call on who your suspects are . Or if you like your opinion on who did it .

My opinion and theory was on my first post a page or so back . I dident arrive at it nilly Willy - lm statements knawed at me from the beginning , until it dawned on me trying to come to a conclusion .

Its quite possible we are not all here for the same reasons. Sometimes I forget that . I am by nature a problem solver , but only for things that interest me .

And at the risk of sounding bold- i want to solve it . For no other reason other then to move on . Trying to make logic out of insanity is tough business , draining and time consuming .


It’s been 2 plus years . We’ve haven’t had any new information in a year plus . There’s a good chance we may never see anymore information come again until arrest . Or maybe never .

It’s my opinion sitting on the fence being in limbo is the worst place to be in any givin situation . It is better to make a decision and be wrong and apologize later if need be .

Rehashing over minut details over and over has been done . Push has come to shove . WHO did this ?

And that in my opinion of where we should be .

In terms of rules, do you mean the rules about family members being victims? It's generally not allowed on here to directly accuse family members who haven't been named as suspects by police.

In general, it's not good etiquette to accuse someone by name if they're not named as a police suspect. It's just not fair to those people to publish anonymous accusations against them. However much I might be convinced, I'm not police, prosecutor, judge and jury.

You can state that you find their behaviour/alibi/statements suspicious.

I too have sometimes found cases are too much to stay involved with, and decide either I know what happened, or just want to set it aside until there's new information come out.

 

[molly1255]

Thank you! I have to trust Chris Graves, if she said she erred, and corrected.

JMO, she corrected this article, because stating JW picked up SR on the night of the murders is incorrect, but the incorrect information came from JW himself in another article.

That's interesting because I remember JW on video saying he picked up SW at 10:30 pm the night of the murders. I recall him saying something to the effect of "we must have missed it by hours". Huge conflicting statement there. I find it even more interesting how much supposedly happened at 10:30 pm that night before. BR getting dropped off by his mother, the girl changing her mind about staying with HMR because her boyfriend had a toothache. Has that boyfriend been checked for a bad tooth or a dentist visit at the time period?

Here's a copy of the article on the interview Chris Graves had with JW. I would bet just about everything I have that she very accurately reported what he had to say in this article. There are even quotation marks noting a direct quote by JW.

I personally think this is the story he was telling at the time, because it gave him a legitimate reason to be at the house that night. Maybe he's not very bright, or maybe he's just plain arrogant, but his story about going there to pick up SR was checked up on and it did not fly. So AW later set the story straight.

My guess is LE has more than this, but this alone is a real doozy, IMO.

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

 

[Sojourn]

In terms of rules, do you mean the rules about family members being victims? It's generally not allowed on here to directly accuse family members who haven't been named as suspects by police.

In general, it's not good etiquette to accuse someone by name if they're not named as a police suspect. It's just not fair to those people to publish anonymous accusations against them. However much I might be convinced, I'm not police, prosecutor, judge and jury.

You can state that you find their behaviour/alibi/statements suspicious.

I too have sometimes found cases are too much to stay involved with, and decide either I know what happened, or just want to set it aside until there's new information come out.

I have enough smarts intelligents and morals to know the difference in the above mentioned with out a rule book .

The amount of lying and deceptions from a lot of the parties should cancel out there rights . Imo .

As for your last paragraph I whole heartedly agree and will most likely not participate in anymore discussions. and do as you say .
I think ive found my answers anyway . Thank you for your insight .

 

[rsd1200]

JMO, she corrected this article, because stating JW picked up SR on the night of the murders is incorrect, but the incorrect information came from JW himself in another article.


Here's a copy of the article on the interview Chris Graves had with JW. I would bet just about everything I have that she very accurately reported what he had to say in this article. There are even quotation marks noting a direct quote by JW.

I personally think this is the story he was telling at the time, because it gave him a legitimate reason to be at the house that night. Maybe he's not very bright, or maybe he's just plain arrogant, but his story about going there to pick up SR was checked up on and it did not fly. So AW later set the story straight.

My guess is LE has more than this, but this alone is a real doozy, IMO.

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'

I appreciate the article, but I have read it, and all the rest. I'm a day oner. My previous post was not about giving anyone a pass, it was to show how much information we do not know, how many people changed plans, talked to each other, maybe texted one last text that we don't about, that night, and all of the questions that LE would be able to ask, and hopefully get answered, from those last conversations, that we just don't know about.

Only CG knows why she corrected the article. She either was mistaken, in her note taking, to begin with, or, she allowed JW and AW, to make up a whole new story, and went back and changed the piece, to reflect the retraction. However, if it is a retraction, she should have stated it as such, in the edit.

LE stating that JW's story, in the "Hate seeing my daughter cry" interview, about being there at 10:30, not checking out, is news to me though.

 

[molly1255]

I appreciate the article, but I have read it, and all the rest. I'm a day oner. My previous post was not about giving anyone a pass, it was to show how much information we do not know, how many people changed plans, talked to each other, maybe texted one last text that we don't about, that night, and all of the questions that LE would be able to ask, and hopefully get answered, from those last conversations, that we just don't know about.

Only CG knows why she corrected the article. She either was mistaken, in her note taking, to begin with, or, she allowed JW and AW, to make up a whole new story, and went back and changed the piece, to reflect the retraction. However, if it is a retraction, she should have stated it as such, in the edit.

LE stating that JW's story, in the "Hate seeing my daughter cry" interview, about being there at 10:30, not checking out, is news to me though.

I'm not aware that LE publicly stated that JW's story in that interview didn't check out. LE was investigating and interviewing everyone who had been close to the R's By the time this interview was published, LE would have had enough time to know where everyone was, check up on alibis, time-frames, etc. and LE would have known SR was dropped off at JW's the week before, and was not picked up on the night of the murder.

No one, except LE knows if JW told investigators what he told Chris Graves - that he was at DR's home to pick up SR earlier that night. What JW told Chris Graves does not check out in terms of being at the house to pick up SR. JMO, but I feel this is rather hinky.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Look at the folks who come forward and say they committed a crime when they didn't. That just blows my mind. It's another reason they keep key details quiet, so as to easier weed out those types.

Not that they are making things up, but, maybe they are young, and seeing themselves as Potential #9s, had they decided to stay over, with their relatives that night. This was a family who spent the night with each other quite often. Lots of cousins, close in age, will do that. It may not have been planned, per se, but a fleeting thought, then they went on their way. Survivor's Guilt, in other words.

We've got HHG's sister who decided to drive past UHR that night. Did she call HHG, and let her know she wasn't coming? What time? Did all seem alright at the time? Was anyone out of the norm, there? Was HHG expecting her sis, or was this just a fleeting thought, so she threw a bag in the car, jic, but then changed her mind? Maybe little B being there changed her mind. He had the couch because there wasn't a bedroom fixed for him yet.

KR2 said she'd planned to spend the night with HMR, so, she and bf, follow her home. Why? Why not just jump in with HMR? KR2's bf then gets a toothache, so she rode back with him, instead of them stopping, and KR2 getting in the car with HHG. Then KR2 took a babysitting job. Who was the job with, and who is the bf? Did HMR seem upset about anything? KR2 never mentions S being there. (She does mention HHG watching K at some point, for them to go fishing, which is kinda odd, to me. K would have been three days old and was breastfed.) Was spending the night, just a thought, in case her bf didn't want to hang around, and then take her back home? In other words, it wasn't a definitive plan.

DS, he apparently didn't have a car at the time. He says that he was supposed to spend the night with KR. He didn't. Who picked him up? What time? Did they see KR, and all seemed well? Was someone else there who took DS home? Who? Did KR take him home? Why change his mind? Was KR a cover for DS to stay with someone else? A gf perhaps? And he never truly planned to stay there at all? After they find KR, he had to come clean that he didn't stay there.

Then there's JW, whose initial statement, in the interview, was corrected, but he was not planning to spend the night, either way. B's mother probably would not have seen his vehicle at DRs at 10:30 because she left at 10:30 and would have likely gone south on UHR, not passing DRs. It was at least a :40 min drive, so she probably got there around 9:30 ish and got back home by 11:15 or so.

There's not going to be much traffic on that road after midnight. I'd bet, anyone with a security cam, checked their cams that next day, too, as news broke. I would have! Also, the ones who have said that they had overnight plans with the victims, and/or were the last to see them alive, or talked to them via internet/text/phone, have likely been heavily questioned. I doubt we'll know everything til a trial.

I will say this about the Ws, if that family did this, it wouldn't be the first time that a murderer was given custody of a child, but was later arrested, and prosecuted. If they have no proof, that JW was involved, they couldn't keep her from him, at that time.

Just rambling.

I thought that toothache story was really fishy too. Why not just stop for some aspirin and go on home? What could KR2 do to help him with a toothache so why did she have to go home with him?

Then hubby pointed out how young they are and speculated that maybe that toothache was a bit south of the belt buckle.

Thinking that way it makes sense why she didn't stay the night with HR as planned.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Let me try to be clear. I realize in in my last post that I was somewhat vague .

Being that I’m somewhat new to the forum I’m not sure what I should or shouldn’t say on this forum . Yes , ive read the rules . And found them alittle confusing, but being a decent person with common sense ill probably be fine .

Although I’m new to this forum I’m not new to this case . Ive followed it from the beginning . Ive been confused, ive researched , ive gone down rabbit holes , and my theories have changed . Ive talked and discussed enough to finally say to myself ENOUGH ! Who did this ?

I do believe there is enough information here to make a call on who your suspects are . Or if you like your opinion on who did it .

My opinion and theory was on my first post a page or so back . I dident arrive at it nilly Willy - lm statements knawed at me from the beginning , until it dawned on me trying to come to a conclusion .

Its quite possible we are not all here for the same reasons. Sometimes I forget that . I am by nature a problem solver , but only for things that interest me .

And at the risk of sounding bold- i want to solve it . For no other reason other then to move on . Trying to make logic out of insanity is tough business , draining and time consuming .


It’s been 2 plus years . We’ve haven’t had any new information in a year plus . There’s a good chance we may never see anymore information come again until arrest . Or maybe never .

It’s my opinion sitting on the fence being in limbo is the worst place to be in any givin situation . It is better to make a decision and be wrong and apologize later if need be .

Rehashing over minut details over and over has been done . Push has come to shove . WHO did this ?

And that in my opinion of where we should be .

BBM

I think the W's were in it up to their necks.

AW said that BW and CR1 were best friends. Since the W's lawyer said that the W's had provided information about CR1s business associates, then we can also safely assume that BW and CR1 were also in some sort of business together. Since we know CR1 and KR sold some MJ then I think we can assume at least some of that business may have been drugs.

Break ups between best friends can sometimes be as nasty and bitter as a divorce. Indeed a best friend can know you better than a spouse does since you are more apt to tell your best friend secrets you wouldn't tell your spouse, especially if you were in the business of selling drugs.

Given that fact I think that BW knew more about what CR1 was into than DR did. And when the breakup came love quickly turned into hatred.

Then you have little SW. I think the falling out between BW and CR1 was in part caused by the split between HR and JW. Parents invariably side with their kids in any dispute. In the case of AW, I think she wanted that little girl and was certainly unwilling to move to AK without her. She may have even reasoned that she was doing HR a favor to have her sign away her parental rights to JW. After all HR was very young, unmarried and with another little girl on the way, so by AW's reasoning she and JW was lightening HR's load by taking SW.

But then the blow up came when the R's dug in their heels and refused to give up SW. Tempers flared and old resentments came to the surface. There may even have been cracks in the friendship before then if the rumors of JW being abusive are true. Given the personalities and characteristics of both men ( we know that CR was a fighter and we can only assume that BW is also since birds of a feather flock together) the blow up was particularly nasty and fast moving.

Yes I think the murders were planned, but I think the planning was short, maybe over the course of a week or so. I think the element of love and closeness turning to sudden overwhelming hate and rage was also present. The W's became enraged over SW and sat down and planned this.

The W's are hunters. You only have to look at the pictures of their living room to know they have hunted extensively for a good long time.

They also knew the homes inside out, by virtue of BW being CR's best friend and HR and JW's long term relationship. The dogs knew the W's. BW or JW might even have helped CR and KR install their security cameras. If BW was in business with CR as we have proof of from the lawyers statement, then more than likely BW was the one who helped him install them, or most certainly knew where they were. JW most likely knew where any spare keys were kept or who had them (I think KR did and that is why he was killed). They knew the habits of all the family due to their long term association with them, (the only variable was DR working a double shift and JW took care of that by contacting JM.)

So we have to ask, who knew these people well enough to sneak into their homes while they were asleep, without alerting the dogs, without leaving enough evidence to get arrested and take with them security cameras that were concealed.

The cartel could not have did it, neither could a professional hitman, indeed no stranger could have. That leaves only close family and close friends. I do not believe it was the other R's or the M's or the G's.

My conclusion is, by weeding out the other possible suspects, is that the W's were the only ones with enough inside knowledge and enough anger to have murdered an entire family.

JMO