Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2017-2019

[human]

I don't think continued discussion of a case as old as this one requires re-posting links over and over again. This is not new information. It's available on older threads.

I know it is TOS to post links but it makes it so one does not want to post when links have to be researched.

 

[Lilibet]

You're entitled to your opinion, but it's part of the TOS, so in order to make an assertion and state is as fact, we're required to cite the source or be a verified insider. Thanks for respecting that.

I know it is TOS to post links but it makes it so one does not want to post when links have to be researched.

I’m sure a mod could settle this question easily enough. I happen to agree with human when it comes to old cases with tons of links. IMO It becomes unnecessarily disruptive to challenge posters to supply links on old cases when links have previously been supplied and it’s possible to do ones own research if one is unfamiliar with the details. Newer cases with current news are a different matter and are what the TOS is designed to cover IMO. But I’m not a mod.
JMO

 

[Niner]

Don't know "where" to post this - but I guess this thread would be okay....

Terri Horman, stepmom of missing Kyron Horman, remarries, report says
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/terri_horman_stepmom_of_missin.html

Terri Horman, the stepmother of missing Kyron Horman, remarried last month in Nevada, according to KGW.

Horman remarried Jose De Jesus Vazquez Martinez on March 17 in Clark County, Nevada, the TV station reports. Authorities have said she was the last person to see then-7-year-old Kyron before he went missing from his school in Northwest Portland in June 2010. His disappearance, which investigators have still not been able to determine the cause of, has drawn national interest

 

[SeekingJana]

There was gym daycare. It seemed odd that she stated her daughter had a terrible earache, and in response she drove her around for a long period of time and then dropped her off at the gym daycare while she worked out. There was a lot of discussion about that back in the day.

I have a long- held theory on why this long rambling drive and the excuse that the baby had an earache happened and also why Terri was so willing to give up custody of her baby daughter.

I agree that a large part was to avoid deep psychological questioning by a forensic Psychiatrist. I have a friend who is a forensic Psychiatrist and his mind is the figurative " steel trap" we talk about in intelligence.

Terri's pathological actions and thoughts may go back to what Kaine said about Terri changing after Kiera's birth. He said she had PPD. Not that he thought she had PPD, but he said it as factual. As in " She was treated for PPD".

In PPD, usually there is a great fear or delusions of harming the baby or not being able to adequately " be a great mother" to the child. This type of fears and feelings may go on until the child is walking/ talking and no longer seen as an extension of the mother, but has developed his or her separate personality and a modicum of independence is forming.

IMO, IF Terri had PPD, it was partially hidden because Kyron was Terri's scapegoat. Blame the sweet little step- son to others. Be mean enough to him to cause infantilized regression in some of his growth and development milestones, maybe. ( If her statements can be believed).

MAYBE she harmed the baby girl in small ways that went undetected because Kyron was in school and his dad was at work. Maybe we'll never know, but my psychological training tells me that the woman did NOT want Kyron dead, want Kaine dead, want almost stranger sexual partner hookups during the day, but wanted the one baby in the house to be protected and cosseted and cared for well. I think the baby was in danger as well. Likely, no matter what she said, Terri wanted her " gone" very much.

I'm not trying to excuse what I think Terri did to Kyron in any way, but looking at ALL her known out of control behavior together, I think the little girl was likely also in great jeopardy on the day that Kyron disappeared and Terri was driving around with a supposedly ill baby. Terri MAY have already decided that Kiera was her ticket to " keeping" her home, so she was trying to decide whether to cope with the baby or come up with a way to get rid of her too at the same time as Kyron's murder.

As a nurse, I do not consider the mother of an ill baby requiring medication, even if OTC ear drops or Tylenol, driving the sick baby around in the woods and here and there to be normal at all. Take her to the doctor, then take her home and stay with her until she felt better and stopped fussing and crying.

Terri's actions were not logical or loving regarding either child in the focused time period in question. I do think some of this could be severe PPD, or maybe she was always just plain EVIL. Kaine seemed to see changes, though, unless he was making excuses for a woman who was always a step- monster, in which case I question seriously why he would father a child with her.

Kyron was SO afraid of her, a meek and small little guy, that I don't think killing and disposing of his body would take half an hour.

Did DeDe work with a wood chipper??
I've never seen it mentioned, but in the PNW, those are likely more common than in my part of the country. I feel sick asking but..

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have a long- held theory on why this long rambling drive and the excuse that the baby had an earache happened and also why Terri was so willing to give up custody of her baby daughter.

I agree that a large part was to avoid deep psychological questioning by a forensic Psychiatrist. I have a friend who is a forensic Psychiatrist and his mind is the figurative " steel trap" we talk about in intelligence.

Terri's pathological actions and thoughts may go back to what Kaine said about Terri changing after Kiera's birth. He said she had PPD. Not that he thought she had PPD, but he said it as factual. As in " She was treated for PPD".

In PPD, usually there is a great fear or delusions of harming the baby or not being able to adequately " be a great mother" to the child. This type of fears and feelings may go on until the child is walking/ talking and no longer seen as an extension of the mother, but has developed his or her separate personality and a modicum of independence is forming.

IMO, IF Terri had PPD, it was partially hidden because Kyron was Terri's scapegoat. Blame the sweet little step- son to others. Be mean enough to him to cause infantilized regression in some of his growth and development milestones, maybe. ( If her statements can be believed).

MAYBE she harmed the baby girl in small ways that went undetected because Kyron was in school and his dad was at work. Maybe we'll never know, but my psychological training tells me that the woman did NOT want Kyron dead, want Kaine dead, want almost stranger sexual partner hookups during the day, but wanted the one baby in the house to be protected and cosseted and cared for well. I think the baby was in danger as well. Likely, no matter what she said, Terri wanted her " gone" very much.

I'm not trying to excuse what I think Terri did to Kyron in any way, but looking at ALL her known out of control behavior together, I think the little girl was likely also in great jeopardy on the day that Kyron disappeared and Terri was driving around with a supposedly ill baby. Terri MAY have already decided that Kiera was her ticket to " keeping" her home, so she was trying to decide whether to cope with the baby or come up with a way to get rid of her too at the same time as Kyron's murder.

As a nurse, I do not consider the mother of an ill baby requiring medication, even if OTC ear drops or Tylenol, driving the sick baby around in the woods and here and there to be normal at all. Take her to the doctor, then take her home and stay with her until she felt better and stopped fussing and crying.

Terri's actions were not logical or loving regarding either child in the focused time period in question. I do think some of this could be severe PPD, or maybe she was always just plain EVIL. Kaine seemed to see changes, though, unless he was making excuses for a woman who was always a step- monster, in which case I question seriously why he would father a child with her.

Kyron was SO afraid of her, a meek and small little guy, that I don't think killing and disposing of his body would take half an hour.

Did DeDe work with a wood chipper??
I've never seen it mentioned, but in the PNW, those are likely more common than in my part of the country. I feel sick asking but..

BBM - I'm not sure if you just took a guess at the 30 minute time period, but I once spent a ridiculous amount of time charting driving distances and it appeared that 35 minutes would be close to the exact amount of time available, (working within the confines of the 10:10 am to 11:39 am timeline and including driving time).

So, I did a double take when I read your comment.

 

[Knox]

Well, well, well ... married on St. Patrick's Day. Isn't that special. If I were Jose, I'd sleep with one eye open.

 

[SeekingJana]

BBM - I'm not sure if you just took a guess at the 30 minute time period, but I once spent a ridiculous amount of time charting driving distances and it appeared that 35 minutes would be close to the exact amount of time available, (working within the confines of the 10:10 am to 11:39 am timeline and including driving time).

So, I did a double take when I read your comment.

OK, 30-35 minutes. I'd say you and I are as close as is possible in this theory regarding the timeline.
I'm just someone who takes the facts plus theories and calculates my best theory based on human behavior. I put myself in the truck. If I had a fussy baby, a scared little boy, and raging homicidal thoughts, what would be my max. tolerance of the situation when a suitable secluded kill and dump site was present? With the maps and suspected route she took, I think 30-35 minutes would be her personal tolerance time before killing him.
Those who kill children without having an additional sexual motive usually do not stretch it out, it is usually a very fast murder. The variable is a suitable location/ lack of witnesses.

As you've said, I can find those in her route within 30-35 minutes' time.

 

[Knox]

OK, 30-35 minutes. I'd say you and I are as close as is possible in this theory regarding the timeline.
I'm just someone who takes the facts plus theories and calculates my best theory based on human behavior. I put myself in the truck. If I had a fussy baby, a scared little boy, and raging homicidal thoughts, what would be my max. tolerance of the situation when a suitable secluded kill and dump site was present? With the maps and suspected route she took, I think 30-35 minutes would be her personal tolerance time before killing him.
Those who kill children without having an additional sexual motive usually do not stretch it out, it is usually a very fast murder. The variable is a suitable location/ lack of witnesses.

As you've said, I can find those in her route within 30-35 minutes' time.

One of the most intriguing witnesses in my view, though he didn't seem to garner much attention back then; the guy who was driving, and a truck he claims was Terri, came barreling off a side road in front of him. Anyone else remember him? Never thought I would forget all the research I did on the area he claimed she came from, but I have lol.

 

[Knox]

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopula...5FG4Q.cspx?p=8

Also Sunday, a man who asked not to be shown on camera, expressed his frustration about the Kyron Horman tipline.

“Chas” said he has called the tip line twice, but hadn’t heard back. He was concerned other people’s tips, like his, were not checked on.

Chas said he saw Terri Horman the day Kyron mysteriously vanished.

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”

Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times.

"I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.”

But when “Chas” pulled up next to this truck, he saw that it wasn't his friend, it was a red-haired woman, he didn't recognize.

He later realized that “red-haired” woman was Terri Horman.

“I didn't really think anything of it, obviously at that time there was no reason to.”

“Chas” said he's been following Kyron's disappearance since day 1, and when police released the flier asking the public to come forward with any information if they had seen Terri Horman or the white truck the day Kyron disappeared. That's when “Chas” remembered back to June 4th and called the tip line.

“The next day, I called again, and gave a little bit more detailed information because in the back of my mind I was thinking maybe I didn't give enough information."

Now 10 days later, “Chas” was left feeling a little frustrated.

 

[EllaMae]

SeekingJana.....IIRC at some point I believe Desiree mentioned that there were signs that all was not well with the baby, and there were perhaps signs of neglect.
I think the suspicion was, after everything came out about Terri's behavior, that Terri was day drinking and leaving the baby in her crib for hours while no one else was home. I wish I could remember which show did that particular interview.

 

[EllaMae]

I’m sure a mod could settle this question easily enough. I happen to agree with human when it comes to old cases with tons of links. IMO It becomes unnecessarily disruptive to challenge posters to supply links on old cases when links have previously been supplied and it’s possible to do ones own research if one is unfamiliar with the details. Newer cases with current news are a different matter and are what the TOS is designed to cover IMO. But I’m not a mod.
JMO

Other discussion threads on WS about older unsolved cases do not seem to have issues about re-posting links. Posters are willing to do their own background research on older threads. I have done that on many cases so that I can put things in context and learn as much as possible about a case.

 

[EllaMae]

One of the most intriguing witnesses in my view, though he didn't seem to garner much attention back then; the guy who was driving, and a truck he claims was Terri, came barreling off a side road in front of him. Anyone else remember him? Never thought I would forget all the research I did on the area he claimed she came from, but I have lol.

I do remember him.

I wonder if any searches were done in that area?

 

[osu]

I do remember him.

I wonder if any searches were done in that area?

Found this article of a search of Logie Trail back in January 2011.

“The search area focused on several parcels of private property, mostly logging land, along Northwest Skyline Boulevard -- between Rocky Point Road and Logie Trail Road -- and around the Dixie Mountain area.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/kyron_horman_search_starts_wit.html

Early on, investigators also searched a rural property where DDS had lived with her aunt located on NW Bishop Rd., just south of NW Logie Trail Rd. & HWY 30.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/dede_spichers_former_boyfriend.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[osu]

SeekingJana.....IIRC at some point I believe Desiree mentioned that there were signs that all was not well with the baby, and there were perhaps signs of neglect.
I think the suspicion was, after everything came out about Terri's behavior, that Terri was day drinking and leaving the baby in her crib for hours while no one else was home. I wish I could remember which show did that particular interview.

From this article Kaine Horman said;
“He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.
Kaine Horman cited Terri Horman's "historical problems with the abuse of alcohol," which he argues impaired her functioning since Kiara's birth.

He said Terri Horman's conviction in 2005 for driving while under the influence of alcohol was not an isolated incident. He said Terri Horman's depression and alcoholism impaired how she cared for their daughter.

"It was common for respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, slurring speech, staggering gait, etc., several nights a week," he said. He writes in the affidavit that Terri Horman passed out on the couch after drinking heavily at night, and he'd find Kiara up past midnight playing or watching TV until he intervened.”

~snip

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html


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[Truth Prevails]

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopula...5FG4Q.cspx?p=8

Also Sunday, a man who asked not to be shown on camera, expressed his frustration about the Kyron Horman tipline.

“Chas” said he has called the tip line twice, but hadn’t heard back. He was concerned other people’s tips, like his, were not checked on.

Chas said he saw Terri Horman the day Kyron mysteriously vanished.

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”

Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times.

"I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.”

But when “Chas” pulled up next to this truck, he saw that it wasn't his friend, it was a red-haired woman, he didn't recognize.

He later realized that “red-haired” woman was Terri Horman.

“I didn't really think anything of it, obviously at that time there was no reason to.”

“Chas” said he's been following Kyron's disappearance since day 1, and when police released the flier asking the public to come forward with any information if they had seen Terri Horman or the white truck the day Kyron disappeared. That's when “Chas” remembered back to June 4th and called the tip line.

“The next day, I called again, and gave a little bit more detailed information because in the back of my mind I was thinking maybe I didn't give enough information."

Now 10 days later, “Chas” was left feeling a little frustrated.

One of the most intriguing witnesses in my view, though he didn't seem to garner much attention back then; the guy who was driving, and a truck he claims was Terri, came barreling off a side road in front of him. Anyone else remember him? Never thought I would forget all the research I did on the area he claimed she came from, but I have lol.

BBM The only problem with this was the timing. They actually have a female witness that places Terri at the 2nd Fred Meyer sometime between 9:30 am and 10:00 am.

[video=youtube;mp69S0kgiWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp69S0kgiWU&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[LeslieKnope12]

I made this account strictly because of Kyron. With all the unsolved cases being cracked recently (EAR, Lyle Stevik) I'm hoping that Kyron is next.

 

[ReadySet]

OT:

With the remains of Lindsey Baum being found, it makes my belief that Kyron will eventually be found even stronger.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-Lindsey-Baum-10-McCleary-26-June-2009/page32

The cases are not connected , but Lindsey went missing the year before Kyron, so I always think of Kyron when I think of her. Her remains were found by hunters in the eastern part of Washington, maybe just a few hours from where she went missing in western WA.
So no matter how well you hid his body Terri, your evil doings will come to light eventually. There will be justice for Kyron, and you will get your comeuppance.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

National Missing Children’s Day: Can you help find these missing kids?

Kyron Horman
On June 4, 2010, Kyron Horman disappeared while at Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon. After in-depth and often exhaustive searches for the little boy by the FBI, police, and volunteers, Kyron still hasn’t been found.

The day Kyron vanished, his stepmother, Terri Moulton, said she drove him because there was a science fair that day. According to Moulton, she took him to the science fair where he reportedly disappeared. No one saw him at the school the morning before the science fair started.

 

[EllaMae]

BBM The only problem with this was the timing. They actually have a female witness that places Terri at the 2nd Fred Meyer sometime between 9:30 am and 10:00 am.

[video=youtube;mp69S0kgiWU]

Is it possible that she went to Fred Meyer after he saw her? I'm not sure of the distance between the 2 areas but if he saw her at around 9:15 then she may have had time to drive to the store.

 

[EllaMae]

From this article Kaine Horman said;
“He says he worked at home 3 to 5 days a week during their marriage, and would be home and present with both children most afternoons and evenings, unless traveling for business.
Kaine Horman cited Terri Horman's "historical problems with the abuse of alcohol," which he argues impaired her functioning since Kiara's birth.

He said Terri Horman's conviction in 2005 for driving while under the influence of alcohol was not an isolated incident. He said Terri Horman's depression and alcoholism impaired how she cared for their daughter.

"It was common for respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, slurring speech, staggering gait, etc., several nights a week," he said. He writes in the affidavit that Terri Horman passed out on the couch after drinking heavily at night, and he'd find Kiara up past midnight playing or watching TV until he intervened.”

~snip

Kaine Horman calls his estranged wife 'severely emotionally disturbed,' releases more texts between Terri Horman and Michael Cook


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Thanks! I knew I remembered something about the baby being neglected due to her drinking.