The “roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion”

[UKGuy]

The neck trauma had to come before the head blow.

If you look at the items that had JonBenét’s blood on them and look at where those items were found, I believe you have strong evidence of a cover-up. There was blood found on her size 12 underwear, the silver sequin star shirt she was found in, on her barbie nightgown, and on the blanket she was wrapped in. Presumably, all of those items were upstairs in her room/or near on Christmas night. So, how and why did all of those items make it to the wine cellar along with JonBenét’s body? Only someone participating in a cover-up would want all of the bloody or incriminating evidence to be in one spot. Why? Because they are trying to divert all of our attention to the basement/wine cellar. Someone is trying to get everyone focused on that area of the house, while diverting everyone away from the original crime scene. We see the same type of staging outside of the wine cellar with the paInt tote, all nice and neat, broken brush, splinters and all – again driving investigators to that scene. Why is there a need on the part of perpetrator(s) to make sure “we” all think everything happened right there? An intruder would have no need to do this type of staging.

Cottonstar,

The neck trauma had to come before the head blow.

Why, what mandates it?

Only someone participating in a cover-up would want all of the bloody or incriminating evidence to be in one spot.

So why bother to wipe JonBenet down, if simply relocating evidence was the objective?

Why is there a need on the part of perpetrator(s) to make sure “we” all think everything happened right there?

So to move the focus from upstairs to downstairs, hence the RN, thats its function, its a rationale for JonBenet moving.

Everything relating to JonBenet in the wine-cellar has been staged, but the stager made mistakes, ones that contradicted the parents version of events.

Did the stager know the pink barbie nightgown was bloodstained?

Why not dress JonBenet in the nightgown, a drop or two of blood might add realism to a surreal garroting?

 

[UKGuy]

Yes. Agree with you 100%. Unfortunately many of us have not given enough attention to the neck trauma. However, we know this is reported in evidence and is most likely the second of the incidents that occur upstairs. (I still can't give up on the theory that JB had become accustomed to being explored sexually by BR and one of the Stines.)

Chelly,

(I still can't give up on the theory that JB had become accustomed to being explored sexually by BR and one of the Stines.)

Might be all that was happening too, whilst one of the parents also molested JonBenet, normalizing it all?

Something was covered up, and it had to be pretty serious to maintain silence for all these years, its not a candy stealing case !

.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

UKGuy. Agree on the injury upstairs and finishing off and staging in the basement. Guessing that PR used what was available in the basement for redressing JB. Clothing from the clothes dryer or laundry basket. I've never fully understood the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine cellar. Anyone care to speculate?

I've always thought that the pink nightgown was bloodstained during the staging. My speculation is that it might be used to clean up the blood on the paintbrush before breaking it or the paintbrush was put on the nightgown for a while and it was stained. My question is was the nightgown on JB at the time ? I tend to think it was. Jmo

 

[Mauig’ma]

UKGuy: This case is like cocaine to the addict. Here I am being seduced by it yet again. With all you know about the policing and politics of this case, along with JR's lawyering and infinity power, don't you think the "authorities" were in Ramsey's pockets in 1996? Do you think a powerful family could get away with this atrocity today?

I think they would get away with it more so today. Money speaks volumes

 

[Chelly]

Chelly,


Might be all that was happening too, whilst one of the parents also molested JonBenet, normalizing it all?

Something was covered up, and it had to be pretty serious to maintain silence for all these years, its not a candy stealing case !

.

UKGuy, Of course it could have been a parent. But the theory of PR's sexual cleansing punishment doesn't ring true to me. Yes, it could have been JR. Was there circumstantial evidence incriminating JR? Anything is possible in this case. I am old and one of my few wishes is that JBR's killer is identified before I go to the grave.

 

[Chelly]

I've always thought that the pink nightgown was bloodstained during the staging. My speculation is that it might be used to clean up the blood on the paintbrush before breaking it or the paintbrush was put on the nightgown for a while and it was stained. My question is was the nightgown on JB at the time ? I tend to think it was. Jmo

OK. I think I can buy that theory. So you believe JBR was wearing that nightgown while she was still alive?

 

[Cottonstar]

If the blood-stained pink nightgown is found in JonBenét’s room, Burke’s room, or the parents room, it would look pretty incriminating, wouldn’t it?

Why isn’t the pink top she wore on Christmas Eve make an appearance in the cellar?

The pink barbie nightgown is at the murder scene because it is stained with JonBenét’s blood. The nightgown is one of the most overlooked pieces of evidence in this case. Not only does it have her blood on it, but it also has BR’s tDNA on all four samples tested on the nightgown. It also has PR’s tDNA on three of those samples tested.

 

[Userid]

Userid,

JonBenet might have been in a coma prior to being moved down to the basement. Her neck injury might have happened upstairs, either as a result of being held in some kind of choke hold, or a failed attempt to kill her?

What we have in the basement is the R's take on a staged crime-scene. JonBenet is dressed in size-12's, a White Gap top, Burke's longjohns and no socks.

Despite this JonBenet has her hair dressed with hair-ties, so she was readied for bed, contradicting the R's version of events.

Jonbenet had a wardrobe of clothes upstairs, including many mightgowns and pajama sets,yet Patsy ignored all that allegedly dressing JonBenet in Burke's longjohns, who knows where the size-12's came from, Patsy says she gave them to JonBenet, which stands as a proxy for dressing JonBenet herself.

Why would Patsy leave the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar and ignore the rest of JonBenet's bedcloths in favor of Burke's longjohns?

She was attempting to stage herself out of some crime-scene upstairs, yet ends up leaving a plethora of forensic evidence in the wine-cellar?

.

Yes, this is possible -- like I said before, I'm starting to give that theory some serious traction. The strangulation could have been performed by PR in the bedroom.

With regard to the pink nightgown, I think it's simple: it was involved in the argument/issue that led to the blowup, and needed to be disposed of/hidden because of the fact. Perhaps JBR wanted to wear it that night; perhaps she grabbed it after PR had already changed her sheets/clothes one time already (after wetting the bed a second time). We know there was already a fight between the two earlier about what to wear to the White's party; perhaps there was another fight (or multiple fights, throughout the night) about what JBR should wear to bed. Everything that was found in the cellar, was somehow involved in the crime, and needed to be found in that area. Either that, or PR wanted her daughter to be buried with that when JR disposed the body; because PR knew it had sentimental value to JBR and she felt guilty about what she had done. Or, PR knew that nightgown was the catalyst for the events that took place that night, and couldn't bear the thought of ever gazing upon it again.

The long-johns, to me, aren't significant. She was wearing similar pajama pants that morning; and I simply think some of the pajama pants got mixed up between the two children; this would happen between my brothers and I all of the time. The bloomies are difficult to figure out; I used to believe they were purposefully used because the murder took place in the early hours of the 26th, and the R's wanted to distance that fact, so they used the "Wednesday" pair of bloomies.

 

[Userid]

The pink barbie nightgown is at the murder scene because it is stained with JonBenét’s blood.

(Snipped by me to address specific point) I agree with this, but then again, wasn't there blood found on her bed spread also? If the goal was to isolate everything that had blood on it (which makes sense), why wouldn't that have included the bed spread?

 

[Cottonstar]

SzzQm

(Snipped by me to address specific point) I agree with this, but then again, wasn't there blood found on her bed spread also? If the goal was to isolate everything that had blood on it (which makes sense), why wouldn't that have included the bed spread?

No blood on the bed sheets. However, there was a blood spot on the pillow case. Obviously, putting the pillow in the cellar under JonBenet’s Head, would really look like staging, but also turn investigators magnifying glass up to her room...

 

[Userid]

SzzQm

No blood on the bed sheets. However, there was a blood spot on the pillow case. Obviously, putting the pillow in the cellar under JonBenet’s Head, would really look like staging, but also turn investigators magnifying glass up to her room...

I think I have to somewhat disagree with this. I think the magnifying glass was already high on her bedroom, even in the kidnapping phase, as it was the last known place she was. Also, I don't think the pillow would raise any more red flags than the blankets she was found wrapped in.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

SzzQm

No blood on the bed sheets. However, there was a blood spot on the pillow case. Obviously, putting the pillow in the cellar under JonBenet’s Head, would really look like staging, but also turn investigators magnifying glass up to her room...

I think JB was laid on her bed for a while and the blood on the pilowcase came from her ear due to fatal head trauma .

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, this is possible -- like I said before, I'm starting to give that theory some serious traction. The strangulation could have been performed by PR in the bedroom.

With regard to the pink nightgown, I think it's simple: it was involved in the argument/issue that led to the blowup, and needed to be disposed of/hidden because of the fact. Perhaps JBR wanted to wear it that night; perhaps she grabbed it after PR had already changed her sheets/clothes one time already (after wetting the bed a second time). We know there was already a fight between the two earlier about what to wear to the White's party; perhaps there was another fight (or multiple fights, throughout the night) about what JBR should wear to bed. Everything that was found in the cellar, was somehow involved in the crime, and needed to be found in that area. Either that, or PR wanted her daughter to be buried with that when JR disposed the body; because PR knew it had sentimental value to JBR and she felt guilty about what she had done. Or, PR knew that nightgown was the catalyst for the events that took place that night, and couldn't bear the thought of ever gazing upon it again.

The long-johns, to me, aren't significant. She was wearing similar pajama pants that morning; and I simply think some of the pajama pants got mixed up between the two children; this would happen between my brothers and I all of the time. The bloomies are difficult to figure out; I used to believe they were purposefully used because the murder took place in the early hours of the 26th, and the R's wanted to distance that fact, so they used the "Wednesday" pair of bloomies.

Userid,

Yes, this is possible -- like I said before, I'm starting to give that theory some serious traction. The strangulation could have been performed by PR in the bedroom.

Yes, although the change in detail is mostly frictionless and should not impact on your main theory, it will make it more consistent with the need to fabricate the wine-cellar staging.

The thing about the pink barbie nightgown is not the bloodstains or BR's touch-dna but that if JonBenet had been found wearing it rather than Burke's longjohns and the White Gap top, nobody would have batted an eyelid and Patsy would have said she dressed JonBenet in the nightgown for bed. If it is good for the wine-cellar then its also good enough to dress JonBenet in?

I'm interpreting this to mean someone beat Patsy to redressing JonBenet ?

Otherwise JonBenet would not be wearing size-12 Bloomingdales.

The long-johns, to me, aren't significant. She was wearing similar pajama pants that morning; and I simply think some of the pajama pants got mixed up between the two children;

Could be, also Patsy states she could not find JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms, they were never found they just vanished as did her size-6 underwear (Bloomingdales, Wednesday?) So she decided to dress JonBenet in Burke's longjohns, no big deal unless your for BDI.

For all the PDI members who believe Patsy's initial version of events how can the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown be reconciled with no visible external bloodstain on JonBenet?


.

 

[UKGuy]

I think JB was laid on her bed for a while and the blood on the pilowcase came from her ear due to fatal head trauma .

MURDERER_SERVANT,,
Yes, seems likely the blood on the pillow arrived at the same time JonBenet was assaulted or cleaned up, e.g. the person assaulting or cleaning up JonBenet picked up the pillow and transferred the blood or as you suggest it came directly from JonBenet?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I've always thought that the pink nightgown was bloodstained during the staging. My speculation is that it might be used to clean up the blood on the paintbrush before breaking it or the paintbrush was put on the nightgown for a while and it was stained. My question is was the nightgown on JB at the time ? I tend to think it was. Jmo

MURDERER_SERVANT,

My question is was the nightgown on JB at the time ?

Maybe, maybe not as we cannot prove the bloodstain arrived whilst JonBenet was in the basement.

Consider you have a bloodstain and a nightgown required to be coincident for transfer to take place otherwise some other method of transfer must be imagined.

1. JonBenet was wearing the nightgown when assaulted?

2. JonBenet was wearing the nightgown when she was cleaned up, as per Coroner Meyer's observation?

3. Bloodstain on the pillow in JonBenet's bedroom.


The Pink Barbie Nightgown is completely inconsistent with Abduction Scenario since it suggests either the abductor wished to dress JonBenet in the nightgown or the abductor dressed JonBenet in what she was found wearing?

Since Patsy claims responsibility for the latter we can assume the kidnapper intended to dress JonBenet in the nightgown?

Surely blood on the pillow and nightgown means the staging was undertaken in JonBenet's bedroom?

.

 

[Chelly]

MURDERER_SERVANT,


Maybe, maybe not as we cannot prove the bloodstain arrived whilst JonBenet was in the basement.

Consider you have a bloodstain and a nightgown required to be coincident for transfer to take place otherwise some other method of transfer must be imagined.

1. JonBenet was wearing the nightgown when assaulted?

2. JonBenet was wearing the nightgown when she was cleaned up, as per Coroner Meyer's observation?

3. Bloodstain on the pillow in JonBenet's bedroom.


The Pink Barbie Nightgown is completely inconsistent with Abduction Scenario since it suggests either the abductor wished to dress JonBenet in the nightgown or the abductor dressed JonBenet in what she was found wearing?

Since Patsy claims responsibility for the latter we can assume the kidnapper intended to dress JonBenet in the nightgown?

Surely blood on the pillow and nightgown means the staging was undertaken in JonBenet's bedroom?

.

BBM. Wasn't the blood on the pillow a tiny droplet? That could easily have been missed by the stagers, but the nightgown was important. I imagine the stagers wanted evidence out of JB's bedroom and into the basement.
A vivid impression for me is the bit of greenery from the stair rail decoration was found in JB's hair at autopsy. IMO, she was carried into the basement from her bedroom.

 

[Cottonstar]

There were literally hundreds of pine needles/Christmas greenery on the cellar floor. Her hair most likely sponged up many from the floor?

 

[UKGuy]

BBM. Wasn't the blood on the pillow a tiny droplet? That could easily have been missed by the stagers, but the nightgown was important. I imagine the stagers wanted evidence out of JB's bedroom and into the basement.
A vivid impression for me is the bit of greenery from the stair rail decoration was found in JB's hair at autopsy. IMO, she was carried into the basement from her bedroom.

Chelly,
Sure, but how much more visible is the bloodstain on the Pink Barbie Nightgown? Anyway the presence of the nightgown in the wine-cellar suggests the kidnapper intended to redress JonBenet, or as you suggest to relocate evidence?

Meaning it happened after JonBenet had been redressed, otherwise why not just dress her in the nightgown?

So if you like BDI maybe the redresser went with their own clothing, which was at hand, e.g. longjohns, which would hold up the size-12's?

.

 

[UKGuy]

There were literally hundreds of pine needles/Christmas greenery on the cellar floor. Her hair most likely sponged up many from the floor?

View attachment 135071

Cottonstar,
Sure , yet the absence of pine needles or stair rail decoration in her hair would not disallow JonBenet being carried into the basement from her bedroom.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,
Sure , yet the absence of pine needles or stair rail decoration in her hair would not disallow JonBenet being carried into the basement from her bedroom.

Of course. Let me ask you this. How does JonBenét’s pillow end up on the kitchen counter during the kidnapping phase?