FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Questions123]

If she was taken from inside her apartment I do find it odd the person moved her car what was the purpose of this? If this was a planned attack and the killer came on foot to target Jen and planned to use her car as the getaway vehicle this is risky with possibly being pulled over by police in her car etc. Not to mention leaving being dna and trace evidence.

Moving her car to me would suggest she was right near it at the time and that her car was purposely moved to seem like nothing happened at the condo unit because she wasnt there and it would divert attention away from the complex.

Thoughts?

 

[liz b.]

It all seems so sudden , 2 months ? in her first flat , alone and she is abducted and never found ( a lifelong fear..)

So many people disappear/are abducted during the time when they move to a new location. Probably because they are focused on their new space, and fail to notice signals that would have alerted them normally ? And of course, the new neighbors are not usually known to them.

 

[shelly111]

jennifer was a safe person .she had a mace ,a phone
she locked her car, etc.
when she left work at lunch time,and went home to check on the workers,she made sure she was on the phone with Rob,,her parents .
alwayes made safe calls.
i know jennifer felt uneasy around the illegal workers ,she knew something was wrong but she couldn't sense the real danger.
A stalker,a serial killer,someone who blended in ,
a maintance man ,a painter ...no one suspect him being capable of doing such a tertible crime
jennifer had no idea and couldn't sense the direction the danger will be coming from .
sometimes being on the phone distract a person ,preventing him from seeing what's going on around them.
people are so glued to the phone and forget to pay attention to their surounding.

 

[JnRyan]

If she was taken from inside her apartment I do find it odd the person moved her car what was the purpose of this? If this was a planned attack and the killer came on foot to target Jen and planned to use her car as the getaway vehicle this is risky with possibly being pulled over by police in her car etc. Not to mention leaving being dna and trace evidence.

Moving her car to me would suggest she was right near it at the time and that her car was purposely moved to seem like nothing happened at the condo unit because she wasnt there and it would divert attention away from the complex.

Thoughts?

I believe the car was moved to hamper the investigation whether it happened in the condo, outside it or at her car. Of course, I don't remember if the condo owners had their own spots with the condo # on them. If that was the case, the abductor could easily find the car if the abduction occurred in the condo. But the problem with a large gap in the known timeline - approx. 10 PM the night before till noon the next day - is that we don't where the car was taken from. Jennifer could have been somewhere like the parking lot of a small business center or carjacked after 10 PM and the abduction occurred there and the condo wasn't involved. I personally believe the highest probability is at the car in the AM, but there are other possibilities. We don't know when her car was last seen at the condo complex.

 

[fridaybaker]

So many people disappear/are abducted during the time when they move to a new location. Probably because they are focused on their new space, and fail to notice signals that would have alerted them normally ? And of course, the new neighbors are not usually known to them.

Liz, is it true that people "disappear/are abducted during the time when they move to a new location?" I'd never heard that before. How do you know this?

 

[Junebaby]

First time posting on here, Hello All!
Something to think about... If you put faith in the tracking dog and he scented the POI back to the Mosaic but stopped at the bottom of the stairwell then there is no way that the POI lived or worked at Mosaic as that dog would have picked up other scent areas. This is just my opinion of course.

 

[Ozoner]

First time posting on here, Hello All!
Something to think about... If you put faith in the tracking dog and he scented the POI back to the Mosaic but stopped at the bottom of the stairwell then there is no way that the POI lived or worked at Mosaic as that dog would have picked up other scent areas. This is just my opinion of course.

Agreed. I think the abduction occurred at the bottom of the stairwell. Maybe the killer retraced his steps in order to make sure that he hadn't dropped anything/left any evidence.

 

[shelly111]

First time posting on here, Hello All!
Something to think about... If you put faith in the tracking dog and he scented the POI back to the Mosaic but stopped at the bottom of the stairwell then there is no way that the POI lived or worked at Mosaic as that dog would have picked up other scent areas. This is just my opinion of course.

how can we make sure the dog didn't got confused with jennifer scent the dog could have followed her scent and the two scents got mixed up

 

[liz b.]

Liz, is it true that people "disappear/are abducted during the time when they move to a new location?" I'd never heard that before. How do you know this?

It is my own observation. But, I have seen it in many cases. The Springfield Three, the McStay family, and I recall another case, a little boy in Florida, but cannot recall his name. He and his mom had recently moved when he disappeared. Will post more cases for you when I get a chance.

 

[liz b.]

OT a little, but : I was impressed with the condo photos. Jennifer was in the process of creating a warm and beautiful home. Beginning to think someone close by was probably stalking her. Reminds me of Jodi Hosentruit. ( ? spelling). Tragic, really.

 

[Truth Prevails]

how can we make sure the dog didn't got confused with jennifer scent the dog could have followed her scent and the two scents got mixed up

I think you are right, here. They can't be sure and that's why it's only ever somewhat officially stated that the dog followed a "scent". There has never been any confirmation as to whose sent Bo actually followed.

Another interesting thing to consider is that hounds can "trail" by following a person's scent left by the dead skin cells that we all constantly shed and there is no guarantee that the trail they follow will be the most recent used by whoever is being tracked.

So I don't think Bo was necessarily tracking the POI returning to Jennifer's condo just passed high noon on 24th.

I can't say for sure, of course; but when I think about Bo trailing to the broken fence separated from the very busy Conroy Road only by a sidewalk--well, I just don't think that's a route someone would take in broad daylight.

Also, there is the rumor from a follower early on in this case that Bo didn't track the POI around the pool where he is seen walking on the video. Instead, she tracked the "scent" to the turn in from the highway and followed the sidewalk back to the Mosaic. If true, I find that interesting.

But, really, as much as I respect those hard working and highly trained scent dogs, I believe in Jennifer's case that it doesn't rule anything out.

If anything it offers only more questions.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I believe the car was moved to hamper the investigation whether it happened in the condo, outside it or at her car. Of course, I don't remember if the condo owners had their own spots with the condo # on them. If that was the case, the abductor could easily find the car if the abduction occurred in the condo. But the problem with a large gap in the known timeline - approx. 10 PM the night before till noon the next day - is that we don't where the car was taken from. Jennifer could have been somewhere like the parking lot of a small business center or carjacked after 10 PM and the abduction occurred there and the condo wasn't involved. I personally believe the highest probability is at the car in the AM, but there are other possibilities. We don't know when her car was last seen at the condo complex.

BBM--Jennifer's parking spot number was 2226--the same as her condo. That would make me at least venture a guess that all condo owners had their own spots with their condo number on them.

 

[fridaybaker]

It is my own observation. But, I have seen it in many cases. The Springfield Three, the McStay family, and I recall another case, a little boy in Florida, but cannot recall his name. He and his mom had recently moved when he disappeared. Will post more cases for you when I get a chance.

Liz, thanks for the info. I'm going to try to look into it more myself. I wonder what all the reasons are. You mentioned a couple, but I wonder if there are others. I'm not thinking of Jennifer's case at all, but just the concept, and I wonder if sometimes the reason for the move has anything to do with this phenomenon or, simply "the more one moves, the more one exposes to oneself to more situations, people, etc.

In JK's case in particular, I know we've talked much about the fact that it seems that the "event" took place in the evening, and many of us have concluded that it's likely someone she knows, and that it was a fairly complex scenario -well planned, etc. However, I keep going back to the current living situation: Recently moved into a "half-empty" complex; workers all over the place, coming and going; the complex was situated next to a "bad" part of town; she felt uneasy about safety, etc. Hmmm...

 

[Junebaby]

how can we make sure the dog didn't got confused with jennifer scent the dog could have followed her scent and the two scents got mixed up

True Shelly, I have thought of the scent possibly being Jenn's as well BUT if it were I feel he would have gone up the stairwell to her apartment. Just my opinion, what I am about to say is not based on any factual evidence I have read, it is just a theory. I think that Jenn parked her car not in her parking space that night I feel that she parked along the back because it was easier to carry her luggage (shorter distance)

 

[Junebaby]

Brainstorming...... I do not feel the POI was "lucky" on his face not being seen. Also there is a reason why he parked the car where he did at HOTG. He could have parked in a space anywhere in the complex, he could have parked in a wooded area. He took a chance on being seen in the middle of the day and parked in the guest parking spaces, and just so happened to not have his face seen on video. Yes, he wanted the car to be found but why?? I don't feel it was to take the trail off from the mosaic. He was trying to make a statement to someone?

 

[liz b.]

Liz, thanks for the info. I'm going to try to look into it more myself. I wonder what all the reasons are. You mentioned a couple, but I wonder if there are others. I'm not thinking of Jennifer's case at all, but just the concept, and I wonder if sometimes the reason for the move has anything to do with this phenomenon or, simply "the more one moves, the more one exposes to oneself to more situations, people, etc.

In JK's case in particular, I know we've talked much about the fact that it seems that the "event" took place in the evening, and many of us have concluded that it's likely someone she knows, and that it was a fairly complex scenario -well planned, etc. However, I keep going back to the current living situation: Recently moved into a "half-empty" complex; workers all over the place, coming and going; the complex was situated next to a "bad" part of town; she felt uneasy about safety, etc. Hmmm...

Also, Steven Koecher, and Mary Shotwell Little come to mind. And there are other cases in which people have met with foul play in the time that they move to a new location. Keddie cabin murders is an example of this. I'm beginning to wonder if Jennifer knew her assailants at all. Maybe the whole crime was conceived and carried out by people within a mile or so radius of her new home. Everything happened in a very small area. She is possibly also in that very small area still. JMO, though.

 

[flgrl017]

how can we make sure the dog didn't got confused with jennifer scent the dog could have followed her scent and the two scents got mixed up

For it to be Jennifer's scent, wouldn't she have had to walk that route? I don't see her doing that.

 

[Truth Prevails]

For it to be Jennifer's scent, wouldn't she have had to walk that route? I don't see her doing that.

Yeah, this is a good point. I really can't see it, either.

So, could it be both scents together? Do you think there could be any chance that he made her walk it at gun or knife point?

For this we need to be open to two things:

1) the dog was not tracking the most recent path we see the POI take alone in the video.

2) the rumor is correct that the dog tacked to the turn in from the highway and followed the sidewalk.

Just curious to know if you would give this any consideration, in your opinion?

 

[flgrl017]

Yeah, this is a good point. I really can't see it, either.

So, could it be both scents together? Do you think there could be any chance that he made her walk it at gun or knife point?

For this we need to be open to two things:

1) the dog was not tracking the most recent path we see the POI take alone in the video.

2) the rumor is correct that the dog tacked to the turn in from the highway and followed the sidewalk.

Just curious to know if you would give this any consideration, in your opinion?

I think she was subdued and concealed very quickly if we have a stranger abduction.

I'm not sure what to make of the dog tracking to the sidewalk rather than the path he took. If I had to guess, the scent was stronger on the sidewalk vs the path we see on the video. I don't really know much about tracking dogs, but it would be very interesting to hear what a dog handler thinks about it.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I think she was subdued and concealed very quickly if we have a stranger abduction.

True enough, "quick" was probably the method used for either a stranger abduction or someone known to her.

I always keep an eye open for a theory that could fit that strange search they did early on in the case where it was reported that a "scent" was found in the woods. And if my memory is supplying me with the correct information, it was a big search--all experienced searchers, horses, dogs. Pretty much everything. And apparently the dog that found the "scent" was a different dog, not Bo.

But it really seemed to me that it was Jennifer they were looking for in the field, not the POI.

I'm not sure what to make of the dog tracking to the sidewalk rather than the path he took. If I had to guess, the scent was stronger on the sidewalk vs the path we see on the video. I don't really know much about tracking dogs, but it would be very interesting to hear what a dog handler thinks about it.

BBM - sure would be. Your comment makes me think maybe the chlorine in the pool could have thrown him off. Thanks.