Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

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More dissertation titles, in case you didn’t like that one.

Law and the amateur detective: justice and judicial witness in the case of State vs. Arias.

An approach to the real: truth, evidence, speculation and sleuthing on the web in the case of State vs Arias.

The truth be told: collaboration and persistence in the evolution of a master internet sleuth and the case of State vs Arias.


LOL, Rickshaw! I think, though, this would be my preferred title, and for a different project altogether:.

The project: one in a series of Cliff Notes for Trial Watchers

The title: "As the Kaleidiscope Turns: Entirely Circular Thoughts on the Arias Trial, by a Rampant Speculator". :)
 
’S COA APPEAL,

SOME LINKS RELATING TO ONE OF THEIR MOST LIKELY ARGUMENTS: THAT EXCESSIVE PUBLICITY LED TO INTIMIDATION OF MITIGATION WITNESSES, THUS DENYING THE HER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO “FULL MITIGATION”

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1. Sealed Evidentiary hearing, October 6, 2014.



Start at 38:00. Prosecutor is intimating prospective mitigation witnesses (denying full mitigation); discussion is about Dr. Geffner and Liar McGee.


Start around 45:00. Wilmott: McGee (and his family) have been threatened and he feels too intimidated to appear in court; doesn’t have screenshots of any of those alleged threats (made on Justice4Travis site) with her but will submit them to JSS later for filing.


Start around 51:00. Nurmi explicitly links JSS rulings on PR to excessive publicity to witnesses being harassed and intimidated to denial of ’s right to full mitigation in DP case.


Start around 53:00. JM says he believes Nurmi’s argument that witnesses, including Marc McGee, are too scared to testify (part of another motion to dismiss) is “made for appeals purposes.”


He mentions “tweets” between MDLR and Michael Kieffer and says that MDLR told Kieffer that the DT’s motions relating to threats to witnesses were being filed for strategic purposes (to ensure the issue of witness intimidation could be raised during appeals). (JM attached those “tweets” to a motion he filed, so they are included in the trial record. :))


Also during this hearing: Nurmi requests and JSS grants a sealed hearing to take place to hear/rule on Nurmi’s arguments why can’t receive a full mitigation because of witness intimidation.


Included in that Motion are the names of witnesses Nurmi claims felt too intimidated to testify, and what their testimony “would have been.” Marc McGee was on that list, and Nurmi lays out what Marc McGee’s testimony “would have been”: that Travis was sexually abused as a child; that he stored child *advertiser censored* on the Bishop’s computer.


Note: we already know about these and other incredibly vile lies by told by Marc McGee, because those lies--and others by other anonymous witnesses afraid of being destroyed on the stand by JM--came in during PP2 via “expert” testimony.


Whatever Nurmi argued in the sealed hearing JSS granted on this date (10/6/2014), it is likely he used as predicate JSS’s (sealed) ruling on November 14, 2013. That ruling sealed the electronic record for the duration of PP2, a ruling made because JSS apparently accepted Nurmi’s argument that public access to ANY pretrial proceedings and motions would prejudice the ’s rights.


Nurmi referred to JSS’s 11/14/2013 ruling while arguing in front of the COA about the sealing of court, and again, after the COA ordered JSS to reopen court, when he complained, bitterly, to JSS that she seemed to be backtracking on her rulings of that date.
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2. COA hearing on the sealing of court for ’s testimony



Begin around 9:45. Nurmi argues why the Court should be sealed: he explicitly blames excessive publicity on JSS not ruling in his favor at the beginning of trial, then links that publicity to threats and thwarted mitigation.


Highlight: Judge Howe telling Nurmi to put on his big boy spidies about those alleged “threats” being made against him.

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3. COA written ruling ordering JSS to open the courtroom for ’s testimony


http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/CourtOfAppeals.pdf

(Clues about how the COA might respond --again-to attorneys' arguments about publicity and intimidation and the like).
----------------------------------------------------------------



4. Judge Stephens' denial of the DT's request to dismiss DP (issued on January 14, 2015)

Lists many (perhaps most) of the issues Nurmi wanted to preserve for appeal.

JSS's full ruling: http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/AriasJan14motion.pdf

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This is wonderful, thanks Hope, will go through them as soon as the plumber leaves. :)
yhm
 
okay, so, I am not new to WS but didnt follow this case-- got curious a few weeks ago and watched the interrogation tapes and read the prosecuter's book --

so...what does stand for? lol knowing mods here I am sure it isnt *exactly* what it looks like but I cant come up with any alternates :p
 
okay, so, I am not new to WS but didnt follow this case-- got curious a few weeks ago and watched the interrogation tapes and read the prosecuter's book --

so...what does stand for? lol knowing mods here I am sure it isnt *exactly* what it looks like but I cant come up with any alternates :p
Piece of $hite, I believe...(please don't ban me!).
 
LOL, Rickshaw! I think, though, this would be my preferred title, and for a different project altogether:.

The project: one in a series of Cliff Notes for Trial Watchers

The title: "As the Kaleidiscope Turns: Entirely Circular Thoughts on the Arias Trial, by a Rampant Speculator". :)

We could write your grad school references. You should definitely apply to Crimewriters International for their speculative scholarship, full ride plus stipend, plus Godiva chocolate bribe money for finagling court documents from red-tape specialists.
 
Yes, I forgot to mention, that you should promise 3 volumes and only ever get around to one, just like the Nurms....

Better yet, promise a 3-volume monograph. Oh, gosh, a Manifesto!!!

Another title

Lasting side effects from long-term clue mining by online sleuthers: State vs Arias, a case in point.
 
okay, so, I am not new to WS but didnt follow this case-- got curious a few weeks ago and watched the interrogation tapes and read the prosecuter's book --

so...what does stand for? lol knowing mods here I am sure it isnt *exactly* what it looks like but I cant come up with any alternates :p

“Point of sale”, in a roundabout way of speaking. For the less roundabout way—the intent here—you’ll want the urban dictionary, lest we offend the ears of the board monitor.
 
okay, so, I am not new to WS but didnt follow this case-- got curious a few weeks ago and watched the interrogation tapes and read the prosecuter's book --

so...what does stand for? lol knowing mods here I am sure it isnt *exactly* what it looks like but I cant come up with any alternates :p

Speaking for myself, when I use "" here, which I have done for years, it IS exactly what it looks like. ;)
 
Nurmi, from his book, on why no mitigation witnesses testified for the during the penalty phase of trial one:

"...when it came time, I chose not to call anyone, not even Darryl. I made this decision because I did not have enough good cards to play by the end of the guilt phase of trial.

Was the media to blame for some of this? Yes, certainly. But I certainly cannot blame the media for the fact I did not have one family member I could count on to help (the ) make her case for life."

So much for witnesses feeling too intimidated to testify.
 
FWIW, snippets from my notes on chronology perhaps relevant to the letters.

1. Nurmi replaces departed atty Schaffer in August 2009. According to what he writes in his book, the first mitigation specialist worked very hard and produced piles and piles of materials, including school records and transcripts/notes from interviews she did with family, restaurant co-workers & managers, and "friends," including MM and Brewer.

What's missing? There is no mention of any expert witness reports, or of the first DT having hired ANY expert witnesses.

Looks like the may well have flat out lied about telling the pedo lie to an unnamed psychologist in 2009.

2. Trial was set to begin in just a few months when Nurmi hired Samuels, and when Samuels interviewed the in December 2009. She told him- no DV, no childhood abuse.

3. Samuels (loosely speaking) tests the for PTSD on January 15, 2010. She tells him the ninja lie. That's not what is interesting. What IS interesting is his choice of test. The one he chose (to greatly simplify) skews results towards a finding of PTSD.

More interesting still is the veiled suggestion by JM during his cross of Samuels (1st trial) that Samuels had faxed a SECOND copy of the questions to Nurmi, on January 22, 2010. Perhaps the first test results weren't satisfactory?

3. Whether the test results entered into evidence during trial one were from a second attempt or not, the point JM made during cross was that even with the built-in skew towards a finding of PTSD, the 's scores fell BELOW the threshold for a PTSD diagnosis.

4. What is most interesting about these results is.....timing; when Samuels administered the test(s) and when he informed Nurmi of the results: mid-late January, 2010.

5. Along comes Sheryl Karp, who does her first clinical interview & testing of the just a few weeks later, in early February, 2010.

Karp also tests the for PTSD, and voila, there it is, brand new "evidence" that the does indeed and conclusively have PTSD. Which has been caused by DV: the number of instances reported by the too large for DeMarte to count.

The fog can now be explained at trial? That sure seems to have been Nurmi's original goal in searching for a PTSD result he could like.

6. Karp interviews again, and the pedo lie is spat out; no violence by TA has yet been attached/linked to the pedo lie.

7. April 10, 2010. Bob White forged letters arrive as PDF's.

8. April 21, 2010. Samuels interviews the again. This time she talks pedo, including the lie that TA was the only man with whom she had ever had anal sex.

She also tells him that Travis chased her into the closet, grabbing at her sweater, and that is when she remembered that Travis had a gun. She grabbed it and pointed it at him.....(tape of JM's pre-trial interview with Samuels ends there).

9. Nurmi filed a self-defense defense in June,2018.
 
I may be late to the party but I subscribed to Beth Karas’ site this weekend and just got finished reading Travis’ texts from May to June 2008. My wasn’t he a social butterfly and quite the flirt! I was curious about NA55 & MariaM. At least he recognized that he was being set up by the above
Reading these texts it is clear to me now that Travis did not know the killer was coming on June 4. She came under the radar so no one would know this but her.
They really didn’t have much text connection in the time she left for Yreka until his death. You can see that he has grown tired of her lies and drama.
The killer knew it was truly over. She knew he wasn’t going to ever visit her in Yreka. She knew the chances of ever seeing him yet alone getting back with him were zero.
This solidified her plan to not only kill him, but to annihilate him. It’s scary when I think of the blind rage she must have been in after the gunshot didn’t kill him & the ensuing stabbing commenced. I feel so sad for Travis looking in his mirror at the sink and seeing her rage - the fear he must have felt! Dear & hopelessness.
The killer reveled in his fear. What a disgusting person she is.
BTW Deborah Moran just released a great post to dispel the killer’s supporters rumors vs facts. Another well written piece. Google search jodiarias blog spot to read it.
So pleased the killer’s request to have her appeal brief sealed was denied. I can’t wait to read it. I know the Court gave her an opportunity to seal parts considered harmful to other people involved but can’t see that being an easy task for her appeal attorneys. But....she was given permission to exceed the word limit so who knows? I bet the appeal sounds like a National Enquier article as she probably took over writing it or had the last say on what to include or not.

Ten years tomorrow that Travis will be gone. Ten years! He would be 40 now. Maybe still unmarried due to his fear of commitment as that fear was so strong, but maybe not. So much ended for Travis and his family that day.

We love you Travis!
 
As for writing a book. I'm honored that you think I could do that. I've joked to my DH -but it's also accurate- that I have put as much time & effort over the years on this as I would have in writing a PhD dissertation. And I agree that while other books have been written about the , Travis, and/or the trial, none have been as comprehensive as the collective product of our discussions & conclusions here on WS.

Consider an eBook for online publication. You could wait until more evidence appears but organise what you have written in preparation for the appropriate angle.


Even if I were capable of writing a book and seeing that project through to completion (not sure I could), and even if I was willing to capitalize on the work here we have ALL done (not sure I'm ok with that), I guess I have my doubts about whether or not there really would be an audience for such a book.

I'd suggest you research at the eBook offerings on Amazon. You have already done all of the work. Probably a thousand times more information provided than is on offer online. It doesn't have to be hundreds and hundreds of pages either. Seems to me that it would be worth caleloguing

Based in part by the huge drop-off in trialwatchers between trial one & PP2, I'm thinking that many or even most of the folks who first tuned in later tuned out when the live salacious spectacle was turned off. Somehow I doubt they would tune back in for yet one more book, especially one as nerdy as the only kind of book I can imagine myself writing.

Numbers dropped off (in part) due to how difficult the manipulative murderer made it to watch PP2.. I followed every minute of the first trial but was frustrated by having to piece tweets and terrible camera footage together in the second. Like many on this forum, I persevered, but it was a chore.

I think JM wrote the book hard core trial watchers wanted to read. Though.....I know I wished he had (though I knew he wouldn't) included a deep dive into her manipulations & torment of Travis.

As much as I love Juan Martinez, the book didn't satisfy my questions. He was limited in what could be covered. His explanations were riveting yet I wanted more. Maybe, in future, he can write the book with less restrictions and more free opinions.

Imagine, for example, what is contained in the full email record of TA- exchanges (have seen but a few), much less of the full record of emails between TAs and friends that contain discussions about the (drooling ;)).

One day, I too hope we can access the missing pieces.




,
 
I too think those interrogation tapes are quite fascinating. I have watched them several times. The killer tries every trick in the book to get information from Flores and you can see her change like a chameleon according to his responses.
She tries to flirt with Flores (when she asks him what caliber his gun was), tried & tried to get him to show her the pictures from Travis’ camera, cries like a little girl (telling the “ninja” story, etc. What was fascinating was how she tried to explain why those pics could have incorrect dates ( SIM cards switched). Such a liar!
When Flores showed her a nude picture of herself she has the nerve to say “well it LOOKS like me”.
There was one time during the interrogation where I thought she was actually going to confess. But that thought was quickly abandoned.

Beautifully described. The range of voices is sinister. That moment she (almost in a breathless - flirty - voice) declares "well, it looks like me"- the sheer nerve. For shame. She is enjoying Detective Flores looking at her naked body. He plays her perfectly as she pushes herself over the desk. I just had to look it up again. It is seriously creepy:

 
okay, so, I am not new to WS but didnt follow this case-- got curious a few weeks ago and watched the interrogation tapes and read the prosecuter's book --

so...what does stand for? lol knowing mods here I am sure it isnt *exactly* what it looks like but I cant come up with any alternates :p

I had no clue what '' meant either. Realised it was not likely to be flattering and finally figured it out a short time ago. :)
 
Today, June 3rd, 2018 marks the ten year anniversary of Day 2 of Jodi's road trip to murder. Unbeknownst to me at the time, she drove right through my neck of the woods on her way to Mesa, Arizona to kill Travis. To commemorate this anniversary date, I have taken a few pictures of her known stops in Pasadena, CA. that might be of interest to some of you here at Websleuths. I created a Flickr account and uploaded the pics there with a few light-hearted comments. Enjoy!

Tom Baxter

P.S. - may Travis Alexander rest in peace, and may Jodi Arias enjoy cleaning toilet bowls for the rest of her miserable and pathetic life. Bye, Jodi!!!!
 
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R
I may be late to the party but I subscribed to Beth Karas’ site this weekend and just got finished reading Travis’ texts from May to June 2008. My wasn’t he a social butterfly and quite the flirt! I was curious about NA55 & MariaM. At least he recognized that he was being set up by the above
Reading these texts it is clear to me now that Travis did not know the killer was coming on June 4. She came under the radar so no one would know this but her.
They really didn’t have much text connection in the time she left for Yreka until his death. You can see that he has grown tired of her lies and drama.
The killer knew it was truly over. She knew he wasn’t going to ever visit her in Yreka. She knew the chances of ever seeing him yet alone getting back with him were zero.
This solidified her plan to not only kill him, but to annihilate him. It’s scary when I think of the blind rage she must have been in after the gunshot didn’t kill him & the ensuing stabbing commenced. I feel so sad for Travis looking in his mirror at the sink and seeing her rage - the fear he must have felt! Dear & hopelessness.
The killer reveled in his fear. What a disgusting person she is.
BTW Deborah Moran just released a great post to dispel the killer’s supporters rumors vs facts. Another well written piece. Google search jodiarias blog spot to read it.
So pleased the killer’s request to have her appeal brief sealed was denied. I can’t wait to read it. I know the Court gave her an opportunity to seal parts considered harmful to other people involved but can’t see that being an easy task for her appeal attorneys. But....she was given permission to exceed the word limit so who knows? I bet the appeal sounds like a National Enquier article as she probably took over writing it or had the last say on what to include or not.

Ten years tomorrow that Travis will be gone. Ten years! He would be 40 now. Maybe still unmarried due to his fear of commitment as that fear was so strong, but maybe not. So much ended for Travis and his family that day.

We love you Travis!

I actually broke down this weekend too, and signed up for a one month subscription at BK. All those months reading and parsing and then summarizing the whole text record to post here, and i never thought to get off my phone, use a computer, and print them out.

So, I reread the NA55 epic text, and the text record on both sides of those days.

I know NA55 wasn't the . I'm perhaps not quite as convinced as I once was, though, that the texting was a setup by Travis to catch the posing as MariaM.

One reason for that is what he said to the after he accused her of trying to (access?) (look at?) (will double-check wording) his LDSLinkup account.

Will post a summary of what he told the but when I read it now, it sounds like what he believed, anyway, is that she had tried multiple times to spy on what he was doing/posting on LDSLinkup.

Does multiple times mean she had no way of actually hacking his LinkUp account? She told him she could, actually, in the same text exchange.

But even if she could, he was exchanging TEXTS with NA55, not posting/chatting on the LinkUp website.

If she could hack his phone from Yreka, she would have had no need to send the May 2 IM's to herself from her own phone....right?
 
Today, June 3rd, 2018 marks the ten year anniversary of Day 2 of Jodi's road trip to murder. Unbeknownst to me at the time, she drove right through my neck of the woods on her way to Mesa, Arizona to kill Travis. To commemorate this anniversary date, I have taken a few pictures of her known stops in Pasadena, CA. that might be of interest to some of you here at Websleuths. I created a Flickr account and uploaded the pics there with (mostly) light-hearted comments. Enjoy!

Tom Baxter

P.S. - may Travis Alexander rest in peace, and may Jodi Arias enjoy cleaning toilet bowls for the rest of her miserable life. Bye, Jodi!!!!

LMAO , especially at the Starbucks parking lot photos. :D

Is that the Arco she really used? And the CVS? And Starbucks?


Thanks for taking the time to do this. :)
 
LMAO , especially at the Starbucks parking lot photos. :D

Is that the Arco she really used? And the CVS? And Starbucks?


Thanks for taking the time to do this. :)
They are indeed, H4M. For those unfamiliar with the area, I just wanted to put a visual perspective between the three places she stopped at in Pasadena. On the way down to L.A. last week, I wanted to stop in the Salinas area to take a few pics of the Walmart she stopped at (and also the elusive hair, nail and wax shop), but our route took us in a different direction. I hope to get down there for those pics this September.
 
They are indeed, H4M. For those unfamiliar with the area, I just wanted to put a visual perspective between the three places she stopped at in Pasadena. On the way down to L.A. last week, I wanted to stop in the Salinas area to take a few pics of the Walmart she stopped at (and also the elusive hair, nail and wax shop), but our route took us in a different direction. I hope to get down there for those pics this September.

I'm entirely unfamiliar with the area, but in any case, the photos are extremely helpful in trying to imagine the latter part of her time in Pasadena.
----
1. She likely arrived in Pasadena sometime around 4pm.

2. Sunset in Pasadena on June 3 was around 8PM.

3. She called Travis one last time, at 8:16PM. The call lasted 2 minutes, 2 seconds (went to VM, imo).

4. She's at the CVS register buying aspirin at 8:31pm.

5. She pays for a sandwich and drink at Starbucks at 8:41PM.

6. She buys gas at Arco at 8:42, 8:46, and at 8:53.

7. Ryan Burns said she called him from Pasadena around 9-10:00pm, just as she was getting on the highway (for what her word is worth, but around 9 fits if she gassed up & drove straight out).
 
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