Identified! PA - Philadelphia, 'Boy in the Box', WhtMale 4-6, 4UMPA, Feb'57

[MRSU49]

I finally finished reading the many pages of posts and I had a thought or two. It might be too late but what if an age regression poster was made? Assuming he was 5-6 years old when he died and he had the surgeries when he was a baby and his family moved soon after he had the surgeries the doctor who treated him might not recognize him. Or if they were done at different times in different places. I also wondered if the chest surgery could have been done to treat pneumonia so it didn't trigger any memories since it was a routine procedure and the cut down was done then or at another time when he was sick. My next question may sound judgmental but it is not meant that way. I am only asking to suggest a possible reason for nobody remembering him. Is it possible that the surgeries were not done by a doctor? Maybe they were done at home to treat a sick baby by people who didn't trust/couldn't afford a doctor. My mother grew up around this time and their illnesses were treated at home, doctors and hospitals were only if you were dying. If he was a home birth not attended by a doctor then he may have never gotten a birth certificate, especially if it was difficult to do and they didn't trust government officials. I'm sorry it's a long post, I have been writing it since I started reading the posts a while ago.

 

[YESorNO]

Marc Hoover: The unsolved mystery of the Boy in the Box in Philly

"Annually, thousands of children disappear for various reasons. If they are found, it’s important to identify them so they can be returned to their families. And if a child is deceased, he deserves a proper burial.

An unknown author once said, “”There is no foot so small that it cannot leave an imprint on this world."...

The following applied to the missing boy:

Someone had butchered his hair
His hands and feet were wrinkled which meant he was submerged in water
The blanket he was wrapped in was made in either North Carolina or Quebec
He was malnourished
He was murdered and died of blows to the head

The boy was buried in a potter’s field. He was exhumed in 1998 for a DNA analysis. Unfortunately, his DNA didn’t match anyone. He was reburied without any fanfare. A website has been designed to help in efforts to identify him. The website is America's Unknown Child (the Boy in the Box mystery).

There have been many theories about the boy’s identity...

Unfortunately, the case will probably never be solved and the Boy in the Box will remain anonymous. Most likely, the killer or killers and anyone who may know the boy’s identity have since died. Unless the boy’s identity appears in journal or someone’s diary, no one will ever solve this mystery."...

Marc Hoover: The unsolved mystery of the Boy in the Box in Philly | The Clermont Sun
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Roselvr]

Marcia King's identification was covered by every major news outlet including DailyMail where her story got 'shared' over 1k times with people endlessly criticizing the family for not identifying her & that was just for not reporting her missing... the boy in the box's case would get a tremendous amount of attention and the family would get a ton of judgment and hate given the abuse the boy in the box suffered.

The morning of the announcement I went nuts contacting a bunch of local news agencies to cover it live; telling them it would be huge news because it was DNA Doe's 1st match. So glad they took me up on it. Two even replied that I was right about it being huge news. From there everyone else covered it. Thankfully they had that live video of the presser.

 

[Roselvr]

So he doesn't deserve to be identified? Because his family might be slammed by internet trolls who critique what the family may not have done more than 50 years ago? I don't consider 1k views on a media story a media frenzy. I am pretty sure if I took a random survey of 1000 people within a few miles of my location none of them would have heard of Marcia King. Heck, it took me a minute to recall who Marcia King was.

Look, DDP has decided that they don't do suspect DNA and that's a complex decision they made based on multiple factors. It has nothing to do with whether someone 'deserves' to be identified, obviously he deserves to be identified. It's not as simple as that, it involves more abstract thinking and considerations for this specific non-profit. I'm sure other organizations will solve crimes through DNA and will take on these child cases.

I don't know if you know this but at least one person CALLED Marcia King's mother. This isn't about internet comments, it's about crazy people who think they're entitled to breach the family's privacy and berate them directly. And Boy in the Box's identification would get way more attention due to it being a child that was abused which would open up a whole can of worms. But that isn't really the main reason.

I believe that GEDMatch was not really in support of DDP using the database to find criminals but were onboard with an ongoing, longterm initiative to identify the unidentified and simply bring them back to their families.

I respect DDP's decision to not use people's DNA to unwittingly implicate people in their family despite lots of people demanding they take on these child cases; it is an ethical decision even if it means that not every important case will be taken on. Every non-profit has a specific mission and parameters, it's not as simple as just taking on every sad case because they're sad. Again, someone will do his DNA in the future, it doesn't have to be one non-profit doing everything.

I understand you're frustrated but DDP really aren't the people to take it out on. They're very smart people doing what they can in their own way and for good reasons that they can articulate way better than I can. Because of the complexities of the real world and relationships with databases things aren't black and white.

Don't say never. Just because DDP as an organization may not do Boy In The Box, it's possible Colleen or even another genealogist like CeCe Moore will do it.

DDP has not officially said they will not take his case, they said he's on the list and they'll think about it. My opinion is if Le reaches out to them offering to pay it, they will do it because whoever killed him is long gone.

As far as GEDmatch not being on board for LE use, from what I read, I wouldn't say that. They were pretty quick to let everyone know it could happen again and to delete the DNA if they had issue with it. I personally use nick names for all my samples and my email is tied to "Rose Lover" not my name. At Ancestry I do not have a public tree and do not use Roselvr there. I feel ok about leaving our samples there. We do not have any matches closer then 4th cousin so far; some of which do have trees that do not link to any of us.

We need to find someone else then.That's on their hands and thier conscience if they feel that is ok.Very sad.I feel the Vidocq Society with the the Philadelphia Police Department Homicide can do this for him.I pray they do.

The biggest issue Boy In The Box faces is his remains were close to dust. I don't know if they have teeth that could be used. They simply may not be able to get usable DNA from him

Sooooo my in laws didnthe ancestry one and some crap came out of the wood work and now I am scared to death to do it. My Mom has been working on our family tree for decades and has traced it back a few 100 years and thought this would be a good gift for her but my family just can’t handle any surprises that may arise opening this can of worms.

I wish I had time to tell my story. Your older family should do DNA because if someone lied about paternity, they are the closest relative to ones already passed. Yes; it could hurt but not knowing is worst. The truth is always better.

 

[Cubby]

Worth a repost:

1957: After 60 years, can science finally identify who killed 'The Boy in the Box'?

 

[leilarose68]

Roselvr you're right that it's possible one of them may help unofficially with the case, like doing Y-DNA or something but it most likely won't be officially a DNA Doe Project case. DDP has stated over and over again that they do not do Doe child cases. I think they say 'it's on the list' in part so they don't have to fully explain this over and over again and get into that long dialogue with people all the time.

 

[Roselvr]

Sorry I was behind 3 pages, just finished catching up.I despise only having 20 posts per page. I used to have it set at 100 so that I could easily catch up.

It scares a lot of people I know too-- no one wants to do a DNA test "for fun" and find out they are related to a serial killer (JMO). Or worse-- have LE show up on your doorstep and ask for your DNA to test against crime scene evidence because a relative took a test that showed you as one of the other cousins who lived in the area where the crime was committed--this happened to some guy in Oregon before they caught EARS/ONS-- they had to get a court order to get that guys DNA and rule him out. I don't have any worry about it personally, but I know this fear exists in many people I talk to. I worry that people will stop giving their DNA to sites like GedMatch and it will become more difficult to ID Does or solve crimes with this method. I think those fear reactions are one reason DDP may not want to delve into taking on children's cases where it's likely a relative was involved in the murder/abuse. I can't speak for DDP, but JMO, they may want to avoid controversy so that they can keep ID'ing as many Does as possible. Maybe later, when they are more established and this method has become more accepted as commonplace in the public eyes, perhaps DDP will change their minds to take on children's cases. In the meantime, I think LE can start to do the same thing as DDP and not reveal their methods to the public. JMO.

LE are only legally allowed to use GEDmatch, not Ancestry; FTDNA or 23 and me. Having said that, they could always court order it. Most times they won't need to, especially with a lot of people uploading specifically to help ID Does or to catch criminals. For some people, they like that their DNA can help nab a "bad guy"

As I said in my other reply; there are other genealogists that will gladly take on cases that DNA Doe Project won't do. Having your company or name in news articles will help most of them get more customers. Before DDP; Parabon wasn't doing this, now they are. Think of how many LE now know what they do there just because of a few articles.

OT: I personally have nothing to hide, but I value my privacy, so I most likely won't do a DNA test. I have a sneaking suspicion that if I put my DNA out there I might open up that Pandora's Box of crazies my father claims he spawned. I have 3 half-sisters that I've known about all along, two of them are certifiable, and that's enough. I have no desire to meet them in person at all, though I would meet up with my youngest half-sister should I ever be in her neighborhood. I wouldn't go out of my way to meet her. I'm sure my father was delusional when he claimed he had kids from the east coast all the way to Mexico, but I don't want to put that to the test.


There's also the matter of my grandma having a baby out of wedlock who she claimed died of SIDS at 3 days old in the hospital that no one can find a death certificate for. Should it turn out he was adopted, I want to respect her privacy, even though she's been gone for a while now. I know folks would disagree with me, but if she never took measures to reunite with him while she was alive, she must have had a good reason.


As far as possibly helping identify a set of unidentified remains, I know of no missing people in my family, so I wouldn't be of any help, especially if it were on my father's side.

Think of it this way; and this is advice I gave someone that put their child for adoption in the 70's... They had done their DNA at Ancestry; it hit them one day that their child may find them due to it. They say they do not want contact with the child but knowing this person personally for over 20 years, I do not think they would slam the door in the adoptees face. I told them that they have a sibling; niece/nephew and a few 1st to 4th cousins not only at Ancestry but at My Heritage, FTDNA and GEDmatch. My friend has not done 23 and me so we don't know who's there.

If my friend was not at these places, the adoptee could possibly contact all of the above. When you don't want a secret getting out, you are better off being the one in control of the situation. Now if the adoptee does find them at one of the places; the adoptee can contact them directly. The sibling and niece/nephew have no clue my friend had a 2nd child because they were living out of state.

Once you do your DNA, you download the raw file from Ancestry and upload to other sites, you can see who is there cousin wise then delete your DNA from every site or have it set to private so that no one but you can see it. I want to note that if you do delete it from Ancestry, you won't be able to get it back as far as I know. They do not allow uploads yet.

With your grandmother, it could be complicated if she gave a child for adoption depending on when it was. There was a lot of shame involved having a child out of wedlock. It's possible your grandmother has regretted giving the child up and would like nothing more then the child to be reunited into the family. My 1/2 brother was adopted out back in 1960. I never knew I had a brother until I was 30 years old and I found out because I was looking for pictures in my mothers photo drawer; I found a photo of a baby that looked like me; I knew it wasn't though. He and I are the only blonds. I also found his hospital bracelet and receipt from Catholic Charities so she really couldn't lie.

 

[jennirv4967]

Thank you very much for helping me talk about him and trying to find out who he is.Yes,There was Penthurst mental hospital too.He very well could have been put in there or Byberry..

I know my comment is on a post from 6 years ago (it does my heart to see people still care). But Pennhurst was originally for children. The parents would drop them off at the administration building the just leave them to rot. Pennhurst started getting more and more children, and then some brain-dead judges decided to send the criminally insane there as well. There are stories of children being abused and attacked by criminally insane adults.

Knowing what I know of Pennhurst, I really don't think he would have come from there. 1.) I don't think they really cared enough to cut his hair or nails. 2.) Pennhurst was a self-contained city in itself...they had farms, their own currency, etc. so there was plenty of room to just dig a hole for a kid. 3.) If he was at Pennhurst, I don't think he would have gotten to the age of four and LOOKED like a child of four. I think he'd have been malnourished and possibly suffer from antrophy of the legs (they liked to keep kids in row after row of cribs, because they could cage 30 kids and only use one nurse).

I know Pennhurst was just thrown out there, but I can't believe Pennhurst was the exception to the rule...so I can't see them dumping him if he died within a day or two of getting there (they weren't being checked adequately so if he died, just bury him and tell the state they're still taking care of him and getting money), and if he was coming FROM a place like Pennhurst, then he'd be like I mentioned above.

I feel as if this isn't very useful to you guys, I'm just throwing it out there for those thinking he was institutionalized.

 

[jennirv4967]

I think it all comes down to money and notoriety. I've watched a show on Netflix about the amazing things they can do to identify 9/11 victims from just shards of bone. I bet it cost a fortune, but people's eyes are on that... I don't think a poor baby killed 50 years ago, who's murderer is probably dead warrants spending tons of money for the fancy DNA testing.

 

[ALTCMT]

Many posts back, someone posted that they had a child born very early and their son looked much like this boy, due to the head shape, etc. My son was born 12 weeks early and every time he gets a haircut in recent years (he will be 5 in the fall) it's kind of disturbing how much he looks like this boy.

 

[Liora Bentley]

I think it all comes down to money and notoriety. I've watched a show on Netflix about the amazing things they can do to identify 9/11 victims from just shards of bone. I bet it cost a fortune, but people's eyes are on that... I don't think a poor baby killed 50 years ago, who's murderer is probably dead warrants spending tons of money for the fancy DNA testing.

The science is progressing all the time, though. Hopefully what's rare and expensive today will be common place and easy in a few years.

 

[outlawcountry911]

I can see on using the GED Match in this case is they could find a family but the family may have know nothing about him. Like Miss X they possible found some family members for her but they had no idea who she was

 

[reese.146]

I THINK, don't quote me on this, (I'm probably a bit late come to think of it. Still getting used to the new WS) DDP will not take on infant and children's cases because more than likely the family is the perp. They want to look for an identity and not a perp (or so I've heard through the grapevine).

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I THINK, don't quote me on this, (I'm probably a bit late come to think of it. Still getting used to the new WS) DDP will not take on infant and children's cases because more than likely the family is the perp. They want to look for an identity and not a perp (or so I've heard through the grapevine).

This seems to be true from what DDP themselves have said. However it seems to me that leaves an opening for another very similar organisation to emerge and focus on the child cases that DDP don't wish to handle.

If so, I suspect they would get a lot of public support given how most people feel about the abuse of children.

 

[Roselvr]

Is anyone here in contact with his LE or the VIDOCQ Society? There is hope for the Boy in the Box with Parabon. Please pass this info on if anyone speaks to them. I reached out to them yesterday thinking of this case and the little headless girl I follow. I asked if they do minors, he really did not answer it so I'm guessing they do

If you have a particular case you think we should be working on, please contact the detective in charge of the case and provide him/her with a link to our website [Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs]. Simply ask the detective to talk with me about the DNA available in the case so I can assess whether or not Snapshot is even an option for the agency to consider. If you send an email to the detective, feel free to copy me. If you have a conversation via phone, send me a follow up email and give me their contact information. Once you’ve made the introduction, I will contact them to explain the technology and find out if there is sufficient DNA available in the case.

My contact information is in my signature below. The detective may also find the links (below) to our customer testimonial page and social media sites informational, so you may want to point those out as well.

Best,

Thom Shaw

IAI Certified Forensic Artist & Snapshot Case Manager
Parabon NanoLabs
Phone: (703) 689-9689 Ext: 261
E-mail: thom@parabon.com
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/testimonials

 

[sloane7777]

Is anyone here in contact with his LE or the VIDOCQ Society? There is hope for the Boy in the Box with Parabon. Please pass this info on if anyone speaks to them. I reached out to them yesterday thinking of this case and the little headless girl I follow. I asked if they do minors, he really did not answer it so I'm guessing they do

If you have a particular case you think we should be working on, please contact the detective in charge of the case and provide him/her with a link to our website [Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs]. Simply ask the detective to talk with me about the DNA available in the case so I can assess whether or not Snapshot is even an option for the agency to consider. If you send an email to the detective, feel free to copy me. If you have a conversation via phone, send me a follow up email and give me their contact information. Once you’ve made the introduction, I will contact them to explain the technology and find out if there is sufficient DNA available in the case.

My contact information is in my signature below. The detective may also find the links (below) to our customer testimonial page and social media sites informational, so you may want to point those out as well.

Best,

Thom Shaw

IAI Certified Forensic Artist & Snapshot Case Manager
Parabon NanoLabs
Phone: (703) 689-9689 Ext: 261
E-mail: thom@parabon.com
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/testimonials

I read something years ago and contacted them about it re DNA or something this had to be the 90s when it was pretty new and I thought they had taken on his case , now with all the advancements that have been made and how old and mysterious this is I would have assumed this would be a priority for DNA projects , This is the oldest case I know of next to Eugene (of Sabina Ohio ) my Grandmother went to see Eugene and I had an actual Polaroid she took of him so I was always fascinated with both of these cases , Also I didn't think there were too many people who didn't know of the Boy in the Box case , I grew up in Fayetteville Arkansas and remember talking to classmates in elementary school about it as young as 7 or 8 . Strange that no project has jumped at this one on their own ....Ive always thought the little boy was sick and was disposed of because they didn't want anyone to know they had a disabled child of sorts ,the thought is still heartbreaking after all these years .

 

[sloane7777]

I know my comment is on a post from 6 years ago (it does my heart to see people still care). But Pennhurst was originally for children. The parents would drop them off at the administration building the just leave them to rot. Pennhurst started getting more and more children, and then some brain-dead judges decided to send the criminally insane there as well. There are stories of children being abused and attacked by criminally insane adults.

Knowing what I know of Pennhurst, I really don't think he would have come from there. 1.) I don't think they really cared enough to cut his hair or nails. 2.) Pennhurst was a self-contained city in itself...they had farms, their own currency, etc. so there was plenty of room to just dig a hole for a kid. 3.) If he was at Pennhurst, I don't think he would have gotten to the age of four and LOOKED like a child of four. I think he'd have been malnourished and possibly suffer from antrophy of the legs (they liked to keep kids in row after row of cribs, because they could cage 30 kids and only use one nurse).

I know Pennhurst was just thrown out there, but I can't believe Pennhurst was the exception to the rule...so I can't see them dumping him if he died within a day or two of getting there (they weren't being checked adequately so if he died, just bury him and tell the state they're still taking care of him and getting money), and if he was coming FROM a place like Pennhurst, then he'd be like I mentioned above.

I feel as if this isn't very useful to you guys, I'm just throwing it out there for those thinking he was institutionalized.

Wow I feel the need to research this awful place , Thank you for the info!!!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I can see on using the GED Match in this case is they could find a family but the family may have know nothing about him. Like Miss X they possible found some family members for her but they had no idea who she was

I think in that case, the logical next step would be to carry out isotope analysis on her teeth to see where she spent her earliest years. That might narrow down who her parents were and provide leads to follow up. "Well, she doesn't ring any bells but my cousin Jane married a guy in Y in 1960 and they lived in Z during the 1960s."

 

[leilarose68]

Thought you guys might be interested to know that Parabon is apparently currently working on Doe cases. I follow CeCe Moore on facebook who is their lead genealogist and she said: "At Parabon, we are also working to ID unknown deceased individuals (Does)."

 

[leilarose68]

And to clarify, Parabon is doing BOTH Snapshot and genetic genealogy to solve Doe cases... very exciting!