GUILTY - Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #4

[Sillybilly]

If we look at the bag (that was apparently moved?) but visualize it moved backwards so the blood on the bag matches up with the blood spot on the carpet, then look at the sketch that shows where WM's left hand is below the blood stream, I can't see that a gun falling from his left hand would have fallen into that bag in what should have been the bag's original (?) position.

(^^ okay, longest sentence in history)

Sorry for quoting self, but I just noticed something else. That blood spot on the carpet did not come directly from the stream of blood from WM's eye. It appears that the bag would have been far enough back towards the wall that the stream of blood flowed onto the bag, then from the bag onto the carpet. IMO, that's how far back that bag was and therefore even further from WM's left hand which was below the stream of blood.

 

[deugirtni]

100% alibi-setting.
I cannot think of one other reasonable explanation.
Even the credit card -- in the past we have heard that DM brought/dropped off food to these two, but not once (unless I am recalling incorrectly) has it been heard that he left them a credit card for use.

Remember during the LB (I think it was the LB trial!) when they were talking about texts.. at the time when MS was trying to set up his own Apple ID on LB's laptop - MS needed DM's apple ID or something.. and DM wouldn't give it to him because he said it was connected to his credit card.. and MS dropped it right away, as if he knew the credit card was completely off limits.. so.. yes.. I doubt if it was something that happened very often that DM would give access to his credit card. (If anyone doesn't remember what I'm talking about and requires a link, LMK and I'll try to find backup)

 

[deugirtni]

If we look at the bag (that was apparently moved?) but visualize it moved backwards so the blood on the bag matches up with the blood spot on the carpet, then look at the sketch that shows where WM's left hand is below the blood stream, I can't see that a gun falling from his left hand would have fallen into that bag in what should have been the bag's original (?) position.

(^^ okay, longest sentence in history)

I had also been wondering about the gun and how it got there.. and son mentioned.. I forget what it's called.. recoil? So it could make sense if the force of shooting the bullet at same time as his immediately dead hand dropped the gun recoiled.. blah blah.. hope that's enough description to make my post understood, obviously my English and sentence structure and words are horrible today!

But if we also think about all of that stuff, in combination with how the reconstructionist said the gun would have been positioned.. does that still make sense that the gun would fall there on its own?

 

[deugirtni]

And are you saying he did this with his left hand?

Claroon I apologize, I have not been able to keep up with every post on this thread, every time I start to catch up, something happens around here and I end up not getting all the way back to where I'd left off, and then more end up coming in addition.. but wasn't it recently discussed here on the thread that DM may not have been left handed? Or at least that he may have been ambidextrous? For DM to have shot WM in the way he would have had to have shot him, it would make sense that he did it with his right hand, and it would explain why the reconstructionist made me envision the gun being kind of upside down from WM's perspective.

 

[Claroon]

another sketch. I wonder who cleaned up the scene after? DNA of blood stain should have been collected IMO.

 

[Claroon]

I had also been wondering about the gun and how it got there.. and son mentioned.. I forget what it's called.. recoil? So it could make sense if the force of shooting the bullet at same time as his immediately dead hand dropped the gun recoiled.. blah blah.. hope that's enough description to make my post understood, obviously my English and sentence structure and words are horrible today!

But if we also think about all of that stuff, in combination with how the reconstructionist said the gun would have been positioned.. does that still make sense that the gun would fall there on its own?

I do think the gun would recoil and fall. I also think the kitty could have jumped up and knocked it. My cat will sometimes jump up on us when sleeping or will knock stuff off our side table. I feel I see a kitty in the photo -- remember WM's room had the door to let the kitties out into the outdoor caged areas apparently. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Wayne had a love/hate relationship with Carl. He was bitter for decades about his parents’ separation and deeply resented his father for leaving his mothers Bizarre behaviour for a man his age.

At the same time he also admired Carl for his aviation skills and creating Millardair with his wife.

Remaking Millardair was more about Wayne living up to his parents’ accomplishments. He was Pushing his son in a direction he never wanted to go.

Even Carl acknowledged Dellen’s lack Of interest in aviation in an interview he gave a few years before he died.

I agree that it served WM's own purposes, however I believe that it killed a few birds with one stone, so to speak. DM was already around 30 years old and in my humble opinion, hadn't yet come to terms with adulthood.. getting on with his adult life, finding a career/occupation so as not to just live off of the family's estate without a means to refresh it. DM seemed scattered, having taken a bunch of different things in school (not sure if he completed all of them - I read one time that he went to chef school, but I haven't seen anywhere that indicates that he achieved his chef status (which in Ontario is actually called 'cook'). He was into hanging out with younger people, smoking weed, having no schedule, doing whatever he wanted, no seeming expectations from anyone. In my view, WM was trying to set up a business that would run without DM necessarily having to have any real skills.. there would be mechanics employed to do the actual work.. accountants, bookkeepers and maybe lawyers to look after the books and legalities, etc. DM would only need to exist as the president, and hopefully oversee and understand everything, and hopefully have a comfortable income in addition to his family's wealth (which would eventually run out if there is only spending happening and no earning).

I think, imho, that it served WM's personal purposes as you have mentioned, setting DM up with a career that would make money without DM having to have qualifications, and also hopefully keep the Millard wealth going. Also it seems that previously (2011 and prior?) DM may have actually been interested in this plan, otherwise, why would he have agreed to attend those courses he travelled to the USA for? jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

I do think the gun would recoil and fall. I also think the kitty could have jumped up and knocked it. My cat will sometimes jump up on us when sleeping or will knock stuff off our side table. I feel I see a kitty in the photo -- remember WM's room had the door to let the kitties out into the outdoor caged areas apparently. JMO

I don't believe there were any animals in WM's room... did DM mention opening the door to WM's room to check on him, or did he just walk by an open door and happen to notice the stillness? Some kind of an animal room was mentioned, which was commented on that it smelled, right? (Cat litter boxes?) This was a planned event (imo).. would DM leave an animal with access to a dead person and blood? (Maybe, who knows???)

The gun would for sure recoil, but.. where the gun fell to, is that where it would have recoiled to, IF Wayne had been the one doing the shooting with the gun in the position as stated by the reconstructionist?

 

[deugirtni]

Also... if the gun fell out of WM's hand right away due to recoil/weight/whatever, then why would his thumb be curled up and in position that way, 18 hours after death after rigor mortis had set in?

 

[MistyWaters]

another sketch. I wonder who cleaned up the scene after? DNA of blood stain should have been collected IMO.

It should’ve been but homicide detectives were never called.

I think the reason the Crown only ventured no further than reconstruction of the gunshot residue was because it had already been established the crime scene was “contaminated” because no one in attendance admitted moving anything, including the bag. It seems that’s because the decision had already been made prior to the Coroners arrival that this was a suicide, potentially due to alcoholic hemorraging of the throat being mentioned iirc. Therefore no one had cause to preserve the crime scene which prevents the Crown from opening that door at trial.

 

[MistyWaters]

Also... if the gun fell out of WM's hand right away due to recoil/weight/whatever, then why would his thumb be curled up and in position that way, 18 hours after death after rigor mortis had set in?

Arthritis? I was a little confused about that. Would it be natural for ones fingers to be exactly in the same position before and after death? I don’t really know if that means anything.

 

[LN33]

This is true. But for this trial, I think DM’s interests and his mother’s happen to coincide.

Also, Pillay would have a lot of influence.

FWIW I thought DM enjoyed watching her squirm at the Rowbotham hearing. She had to tell the judge all about her finances and explain why she was still taking money out of Millardair.

I think DM despised both his parents.

BBM. Only one piece of the puzzle that is DM's mind, but I would think, pretty significant in wreaking all this horrendous havoc. JMO

 

[swedie]

So to speculate, if DM killed him, what position did he have him in? Did he move him? How did he wedge himself in beside the bed to do what he did? Ideas?

I wish I had the time to go back to TB's trial tweets and find the tweets where a reporter was observing DM in the courtroom. IIRC the reporter tweeted DM used both hands depending what he was doing. Writing, sketching? Long ago, shortly after DM's arrest, there was a video of, IIRC DM at the old hangar, perhaps with an air soft rifle, and there were also photos on one of his buddy's facebook, of DM and said buddy with what appeared to be hunting rifles. Two photos, of them posed with rifles at their sides, and the other photo, rifles aimed to the sky. Does anyone recall these photos or the video for clarification?

It's not a stretch IMO for someone who is predominately left handed to hold a gun in their right hand and pull the trigger. We debated about DM being left or right handed way back during TB's case, and how would it be possible for DM to point and shoot a gun at TB while in TB's truck. Where there's a will, there's a way. In shooting his father while he was sound asleep in bed, DM wouldn't have to be a contortionist either. Simply bent at the waist while standing beside his dad's bed, with his pistol in his left hand, arm crossed over in front of himself, aim and fire. OR he could have stood facing the dresser with the gun in his left hand. OR he could have held the gun in his right hand. ALL MOO.

 

[deugirtni]

Arthritis? I was a little confused about that. Would it be natural for ones fingers to be exactly in the same position before and after death? I don’t really know if that means anything.

considering the coroner said wm's thumb to have been curled, it seems like it would require muscles to have that position, as opposed to a limp (dead) position? If he had kept holding the gun while lying there dead (like say the gun got kinda stuck in his thumb/hand position?), then his body would have kept that position during rigor mortis.. but.. yet the gun was not in his hand when he was found.. so did the gun drop out of his hand after rigor mortis had already set in, or.. ??

 

[Sillybilly]

Just a thought re WM's curled thumb ...

from Pg 390 of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology

"Before complete fixation of rigor mortis, it can be broken down easily with the application of little force and rigor mortis will be fixed up again in newer position of the body"

 

[MistyWaters]

considering the coroner said wm's thumb to have been curled, it seems like it would require muscles to have that position, as opposed to a limp (dead) position? If he had kept holding the gun while lying there dead (like say the gun got kinda stuck in his thumb/hand position?), then his body would have kept that position during rigor mortis.. but.. yet the gun was not in his hand when he was found.. so did the gun drop out of his hand after rigor mortis had already set in, or.. ??

You’re right, we’re just left with speculate about his comment but the bent thumb was one of the clues he said led him to determine a suicide had occurred. I don’t recall either side questioning him any further or asking for clarification. Would holding onto a small caliber handgun after death be a fairly common situation or was he just looking for any bit evidence that might validate a suicide in order to conclude the file?

 

[Claroon]

I don't believe there were any animals in WM's room... did DM mention opening the door to WM's room to check on him, or did he just walk by an open door and happen to notice the stillness? Some kind of an animal room was mentioned, which was commented on that it smelled, right? (Cat litter boxes?) This was a planned event (imo).. would DM leave an animal with access to a dead person and blood? (Maybe, who knows???)

The gun would for sure recoil, but.. where the gun fell to, is that where it would have recoiled to, IF Wayne had been the one doing the shooting with the gun in the position as stated by the reconstructionist?

No one else sees it but on my computer, I see ears and whiskers of a cat on the blue chair.

other attempts to show kitty

 

[Foxone1]

Dellen Millard will be found not guilty. Judge only cases are usually not guilty in Canada

 

[Errrr]

This is true. But for this trial, I think DM’s interests and his mother’s happen to coincide.

Also, Pillay would have a lot of influence.

FWIW I thought DM enjoyed watching her squirm at the Rowbotham hearing. She had to tell the judge all about her finances and explain why she was still taking money out of Millardair.

I think DM despised both his parents.

How is it that psychopaths can hate but not love?

 

[Claroon]

You’re right, we’re just left with speculate about his comment but the bent thumb was one of the clues he said led him to determine a suicide had occurred. I don’t recall either side questioning him any further or asking for clarification. Would holding onto a small caliber handgun after death be a fairly common situation or was he just looking for any bit evidence that might validate a suicide in order to conclude the file?

This is an intriguing study: (bbm) Weapon location following suicidal gunshot wounds. - PubMed - NCBI

The location of the gun following suicidal gunshot wound was studied by reviewing 574 such deaths in which the scene was investigated by a medical examiner investigator and the body was examined at the Bexar County Medical Examiner's Office in San Antonio, Texas. The position of the gun could not be established in 76 cases. In the remaining 498 cases, the gun remained in the deceased's hand in 24% of the cases. In 69% of the cases, the gun was on or near the body but not in the hand (i.e., touching the body or within 30 cm of the body). The gun was found >30 cm from the body in the remaining 7% of cases. In the case of handguns, the gun was found in the hand in 25.7% of individuals. For individuals using long guns, the firearm was in the hand of the decedent in 19.5% of cases. The gun had a greater chance of remaining in the deceased's hand if the person was lying or sitting when the gunshot wound was received. Variables such as gender of the individual, wound location, and caliber of handgun were not significant in predicting whether the gun stayed in the hand after a suicidal gunshot wound.