South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July 2016

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I am having problems here.
I have the Defence, speaking at the same time, as this video is running.
I remember this was Defence's conversation, in the past.
Anyone else, having 2 videos running at the same time.
Perhaps, I'll turn my laptop off, and see if this problem is resolved.
 
I am having problems here.
I have the Defence, speaking at the same time, as this video is running.
I remember this was Defence's conversation, in the past.
Anyone else, having 2 videos running at the same time.
Perhaps, I'll turn my laptop off, and see if this problem is resolved.

I just clicked on your video link and it ran perfectly for me. I have no idea on what has happened.

My only problem is the dreadful lagging when I type here.
 
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We are back. VDS say he has no more questions but wants a demonstration with the hotel gown, using someone from public who has similar height and weight.

Perumal says he does not regard hotel gown as short-sleeved. Gown comes almost to wrists and over knees.

Judge asks Perumal about skin reactions. Perumal: A person must be alive and have active circulation. Someone who dies in 3-5 minutes, you are not going to get that inflammatory response that are observable.

Perumal: If someone is being strangled manually or throttling, and if it doesn't happen quickly, then we may be able to find an inflammatory response to that trauma. But in hanging, rapid case, it's unlikely to have response.

Judge asks if someone is throttled and then a ligature is imprinted onto neck, would there be a skin reaction. Perumal says if that person is dead, then no.

Perumal is finally excused from the stand. Judge postpones the trial until Monday, 25 June, at 10am. Jason remains out on bail.

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I just clicked on your video link and it ran perfectly for me. I have no idea on what has happened.

My only problem is the dreadful lagging when I type here.

When problems were happening, an alert came up: solutions suggested to use other browsers.
I did this, and fine.
I then, repeated with initial browser, and this then worked.
 
Susan's body obviously appears naked BUT is she wearing her gown and it is up around her shoulders. Nick's pic was very tiny so I've enlarged it twice.

View attachment 136555 View attachment 136556
Difficult to see whether it is just draped loosely around her shoulders in the photo, though it looks like it is. If true I assume it would have fallen off when Jason moved her. If her arms were in the sleeves I don't think it would have fallen off or been removed easily. Then it would have hung down and shown marks of faeces etc. Hard to imagine she would drape it around her shoulders when preparing to hang herself. Would Daniels and Thompson have described her as naked if it was around her shoulders? Probably.
On the other hand I would have expected the gown to create more bulk around her shoulder area if it just slipped down. Photo is not clear enough to tell.
 
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Is there any evidence that supports or contradicts the scenario where victim would have been strangled with curling iron cord and then suicide staged?
 
Two more forensic pathologists are expected to testify on behalf of murder-accused businessman Jason Rohde, the Western Cape High Court heard on Thursday.

Perumal had concluded his testimony on Thursday by saying that he still regarded suicide by hanging as the most probable cause of death for Susan Rohde but that he could not exclude other possibilities, such as manual strangulation.

Van der Spuy said the next defence witness, a forensic pathologist, was expected to take the stand on Monday.

Dr Izak Loftus from Somerset West, is a specialist forensic pathologist and histopathologist, someone who examines biological tissue under a microscope to diagnose and evaluate disease.

According to his CV on Waspalm website, he has been practising since 1994 and has a special interest in cardiorespiratory pathology, neuropathology and molecular medicine.

Van der Spuy mentioned that his other witness was forensic pathologist, Professor Gert Saayman, whom he anticipated would only be called in the court's third term in August.

Saayman conducted the autopsy on Reeva Steenkamp and testified during Oscar Pistorius' trial.

Jason Rohde’s legal team expected to call more forensic pathologists to testify
 
Is there any evidence that supports or contradicts the scenario where victim would have been strangled with curling iron cord and then suicide staged?
I don't know, other than to say that it isn't a scenario put forward by the State's forensic pathologists. Perhaps the lack of a complete ligature mark encircling the neck? Or maybe the presence of bruising and the fractured hyoid points more to a hand.
 
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Whether Susan had the gown on over her shoulders or with her arms in the sleeves I can't see where the back of the gown could have gone for it not to have covered her back and bottom in a crouching forwards position. It makes no sense that firstly there is no staining on the gown and secondly how Jason could have moved her to the floor in such a way that the gown rode up around her shoulders like in that photo.
 
There was another point raised by Perumal that I thought deserved more questioning. He said the blood in her stomach was from the nose injury based on the fact that there was blood in her nostrils. Well I was reading on Nick's blog the other day that Thompson (who did half an hour+ of CPR on Susan) testified that when he started chest compressions it forced blood out of Susan's nose. If he hadn't done that I think it's possible that blood in her nose wouldn't have been there.
 
Couldn’t he have just grabbed a towel to cover her. I can’t understand why he didn’t do that. Yes, I know he was in shock............
I agree, it seems irrelevant to a possible murder, but neither he nor Daniels and Thompson thought to cover her, and Thompson expressed embarrassment about her nakedness when doing CPR. When accidents happen it's usually the first thing people do in injury or death, even using their own coats etc. to preserve a persons dignity. Poor Susan.
 
I'm actually feeling pretty disappointed about this case - I'm getting the Shrien Dewani feel about it, that he's going to be acquitted. I don't think van Niekerk got enough concessions out of Perumal, he was pretty adamant despite saying he never is, that the ligature was applied during life. The State don't have that in their scenario. I know the State had two pathologists, one of them being their chief with a lot of experience, but where you have competing opinions what do you do? Did they do enough to discredit Perumal? He certainly lied to the court about retrieving the bullet in Pistorius' toilet (the court record will bear that out) but that just shows he tried to big himself up. They showed he has been found to be wrong before and that he put stuff on his CV that was misleading. Is he a hired gun? I think there is something slightly off about him, he seems to be trying to please the court by showing his reasonableness but that doesn't quite succeed because they want a seasoned expert opinion, and the court must bear in mind who is paying him. He seems to be trying to please both sides because he has an eye on future business and to avoid a court finding against him. But he was sure about the parchment like appearance of the ligature mark on the left side of Susan's neck. I don't think he convinced court about the cut through the hyoid horn.

I don't think van Niekerk did enough about the blood in the stomach. I hope I'm wrong. According to Jason's story they went to bed around 3:30am and Susan was alive at 7:00am. Why would she still be swallowing cup fulls of blood over three hours later - he didn't put that time to Perumal on their estimated time of death, even though Perumal said he wouldn't be pressed on the time she ingested the blood before her death, it's obvious it wasn't over three hours in her stomach. He said it's possible it was half an hour or an hour. Well that means on their time of death she had a serious nose injury at around 6am.

The cut above her eye he didn't agree was likely made by falling on a wall and without other injuries to her knees and other prominences, and the blood spatter was as a result of a second impact on the cut. There are signs of a serious fight including whatever caused her to swallow so much blood twice, either a nose injury according to Perumal or lung injury according to the State, and grip marks on her neck, that are not explained as Jason describes it. Moving her aside by her neck (as if!) and throwing his arm back and catching her nose. He says he didn't see any blood from her nose after he did that. But even if the judge says there was a fight and he has lied about that, is that going to be enough to say it then progressed to him murdering her?

Things like calling Daniels to witness him finding the body instead of turning the lock himself, phoning Susan to create an impression of innocence, and whether the noose was tight or loose or she was naked or not are all majorly iffy, and he showed himself to be arrogant and argumentative in court, but are they enough for the court? I'm certain he's guilty but courts have to exercise more caution.

The placement of the stool is another one that shows he probably dragged her but can the defence say it was transferred outside the bathroom if no witness ever came forward and said they walked poo out of the bathroom and had to clean their shoe?
 
I have hopes for all of this:-

Conflicting autopsy reports show different causes for Susan Rohde’s death

Broken ribs and associated haemorrhages and pooling of blood: CK says not connected to CPR but manual strangulation:
Horn of thyroid cartilage fractured, CK says connected to manual strangulation:
Hooks on door tested to hold 40KG; Susan weighed 52Kkg:
Various knocks and scrapes over her body: CK connects to dragging and notes floor is rough.

As you say the x of Perumal didn't seem strong enough. Much will depend upon the evidence from CK and how strong he is in the x.

As a reminder:-https://www.enca.com/south-africa/susan-rohde-strangled-and-death-staged-forensic-expert
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I think Dr Deidre Abrahams was stronger than Khan in her testimony, being his boss. She was unmovable and absolutely sure in her opinions.

ETA the hook evidence is good but Jason said her feet were touching the floor so that would reduce the weight load on it. He has an answer for everything. I wish they'd have got that initial statement off him that his lawyer refused to let them see. It seems like a lot of tailoring of evidence can be made in these trials once the State's evidence is in. Like Pisto and van Breda.
 
I think Dr Deidre Abrahams was stronger than Khan in her testimony, being his boss. She was unmovable and absolutely sure in her opinions.

ETA the hook evidence is good but Jason said her feet were touching the floor so that would reduce the weight load on it. He has an answer for everything. I wish they'd have got that initial statement off him that his lawyer refused to let them see. It seems like a lot of tailoring of evidence can be made in these trials once the State's evidence is in. Like Pisto and van Breda.
I know Abrahams was present at the CK post mortem, and agrees with him totally, but I missed her testimony and can't find it anywhere.
 
I do not think JR will be acquitted, I have faith in the judge. She is serious and in controll. She does not accept BS. If the judge was named masipa, I would feel otherwise.
 
It starts here patCee (it was after this that they broke for Christmas and Jason had a breakdown)

South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July, 2016
Many thanks Tortoise, yes she was strong in her x exam. Her comments re Perumal's vagueness were shown to be true in his x exam. Her x seemed to be stronger than the state's to Perumal. I'll be surprised if this judge is able to feel confident about him.
We'll see what the next 2 experts have to say in support of the defence. It feels like an open and shut case to me, partly because the state pathologist is so detailed with Perumal's position being more to criticising points rather than making clear ones of his own, without referring to other experts theories.
As we know for every 'experts' theory there are others that disagree.
 
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