GUILTY CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #12

[DakotaMayi]

Ok, this is going to be a hard one to follow.

 

[claudianunes]

Since this case came out, I expected it to be bad but not this bad.
LT and DT took everything away from their children. Everything.
They were even stripped from the most basic thing - their personal hygiene.
I can't even imagine how those brains and minds were still somewhat working. These people have to have terrible, terrible, terrible issues after all of the horrible abuse they had to endure.
The fact that the Defense tried to sugar coat the situation that led to the lewd act charge really broke my heart, that poor child thought about committing suicide because of that. She already dealt with so much abuse and violence but the thing that drove her to trying to take her own life was the disgusting thing her father tried to do to her.
When I read that one of the boys admitted to thinking about killing small animals I didn't knew what to think. But the fact that the boy made sure to tell LE (or whoever it was - a person in a position of power) that he thought about doing that shows, to me, that the boy knows it's wrong and I could be wrong but that sounds like a cry for help (like, "look I have been having this weird thoughts and I don't like it" type of thing), because I doubt anyone really asked him if he ever felt like hurting animals, that's oddly specific. I just hope he is being given the tools to deal with it in a healthy way.
Hopefully they are being accompained by psychologists and that they trust those professionals to be honest about their feelings so they can get the help they need, in order to work on their issues.
I feel terrible for all of them, but the first born girl really worries me. I hope she finds a passion and is giving all the tools she needs to persue and live that passion, whatever that may be. That poor girl is just now starting a race that was started by the people her age a long time ago. She has a lot to catch up to and she needs all the help she can get.
Also, I looks like the older girl and the older boy were left in charge of the siblings for some time back in Texas and, apparently, received orders from their parents to punish their own siblings. These pathetic excuse of parents not only abused their own children, but they even forced two of their children to abuse their own siblings. Those poor souls were literally putting their siblings on cages and chaining them because they knew if they didn't, the parents would do even worse. This is so sick and so evil.

 

[Betty P]

But even when the children were old enough to look after themselves, they wouldn't allow it. They were not allowed to wash their hands above the wrists and not allowed to bathe. That is just meanness for the sake of it IMO.

Kind of, but I also think part of it was laziness of the parents who didn't want to pay a higher water bill, keep bigger supplies of soap and have to spend time every day keeping bathrooms clean where 13 kids were needing to wash up and take showers every day. Wasn't there some report about the dirty bathroom rugs, etc? They didn't want to be bothered with laundering lots of towels, rugs, washcloths, bedding every day. They didn't want to have to run multiple dishwasher loads every day for eating and cooking utensils required to feed those kids 3 meals a day.

Yeah, it was mostly a control thing, but it was also about being lazy. They wanted to control the children in a punitive way because they were too lazy to manage their household properly. They wanted whatever religious perks they thought they earned by the "quiver full" thing without having to do any of the work. It just adds another dimension to their narcissistic motives for wanting to control and dehumanize their children.

 

[Jealoushe]

Kind of, but I also think part of it was laziness of the parents who didn't want to pay a higher water bill, keep bigger supplies of soap and have to spend time every day keeping bathrooms clean where 13 kids were needing to wash up and take showers every day. Wasn't there some report about the dirty bathroom rugs, etc? They didn't want to be bothered with laundering lots of towels, rugs, washcloths, bedding every day. They didn't want to have to run multiple dishwasher loads every day for eating and cooking utensils required to feed those kids 3 meals a day.

Yeah, it was mostly a control thing, but it was also about being lazy. They wanted to control the children in a punitive way because they were too lazy to manage their household properly. They wanted whatever religious perks they thought they earned by the "quiver full" thing without having to do any of the work. It just adds another dimension to their narcissistic motives for wanting to control and dehumanize their children.

I think their abuse took more effort than cleaning....just saying. They are sick people, it goes beyond being lazy

 

[Betty P]

I think their abuse took more effort than cleaning....just saying. They are sick people, it goes beyond being lazy

Agree, I'm just saying that was a part of their motivation. It fed into the desire for total control and dehumanization while costing them the least amount of money, time and effort. Greedy, lazy, narcissistic psychopaths.

ETA: It probably also helped them rationalize their appalling behavior and treatment of the children. I wonder how much of this twisted thinking is an integral part of that abominable "quiver full" dogma?

 

[Amonet]

I think their abuse took more effort than cleaning....just saying. They are sick people, it goes beyond being lazy

I agree with you. They chose to feed one child at a time, which must have taken ages even if it was only a sandwich each, and I'm sure that house would fit 6 around a table. Plus the kids were made to stand while they ate, and I doubt that was for the benefit of their digestion.

If money was a problem they could have had six kids at college and working. But they chose not to educate the kids despite claiming to be homeschooling.

They knew they were supposed to be homeschooling, but it was easier to get a fake diploma for one of the kids instead of actually educating them or sending them to public school for free.

They could have had confident and able kids, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for three of the kids to get dinner, and then a couple of them do the dishes after, and a couple on laundry duties as part of normal chores.

It would have been harder when there were ten children aged under 12 or so, but that's why a lot of people space their families and have fewer children in total, because they know they can't care for 10 children under 12 in terms of all the cooking, cleaning, washing, and paying for everything.

They wouldn't have had a problem with kids 'stealing' food if they weren't starving the kids. If they fed the kids on the moldy food they threw out, then there would be less waste and less hunger in the house, and less malnutrition in the siblings.

In effect, a lot of these things are tricking the children into 'misbehavior' through the parents causing the reasons for the 'misbehavior', and I don't personally see a starving child taking something from the fridge as being misbehavior, but they caused the problem and then punished the effect. What kind of sadistic brain comes up with that kind of concept?

 

[claudianunes]

I don't think this whole mess was a result of trying to save money. They had like what, 6 or 7 adult children? They could and SHOULD have let them go on and live their own lives, but they didn't allow them to do any of the things that would make them capable adults. And even if they didn't have an education, I assume there are plenty of options for them, they could have gotten part-time jobs and get a GED but their parents didn't allow them to go on their own.
The lazy theory doesn't really make much sense to me because they had 12 people in that house that would be capable of taking care of chores, they really didn't have to move a finger but it doesn't look like they even wanted their children to help around the house, they just wanted to punish and abuse them. They took everything away from their own children, and what for? What would they do if the 17-year-old went ahead and took her own life? How would they explain that? Would they just pretend she was still there, since nobody really saw any of the kids anyway? What was the plan for when they got too old? What did they think their children would do after they passed away? Just keep living in the same house together with no jobs, no education and no life skills whatsoever? I might be wrong but this would end even worse if the girl didn't manage to run away and get help. Those kids would have end up dead soon. Someone would have snapped for sure.

 

[enelram]

I sort of believe one reason they didn't try to help any of the older ones become independent and go off and live on their own is this:
These parents knew the years and years of prisoner-like captivity
and abuse and neglect was flat out wrong. If they allowed any of
them to escape, the parents would risk getting exposed. And they
knew they could be put away.
this is also why I suspect we will hear much more grotesque
types of abuse and much more hints of sexual abuse.
Keeping the family secrets was a huge, everyday task in this family.
I suspect momma had a lot of practice as a child-teen growing up.
And daddy probably had overly strict, borderline abusive parents.
We only know a fraction of what will come out in a trial. MOO.

 

[jash]

I wonder why it’s not enough that she lived in a house with all that filth? It definitely wasn’t sanitary there and probably wasn’t safe. Was Louise’s room kept immaculate?

With spiders under the bed, I doubt it.

Jeremy Chen@JeremyChenKESQ
Investigator: 12 yr old told him she was caught in her mother's room before. Her mother grabbed by her neck and hair forced her on the ground and go underneath bed to retrieve item she dropped. Lots of spiders and spiderwebs under bed and was bitten.
2:31 PM - Jun 20, 2018

 

[claudianunes]

I sort of believe one reason they didn't try to help any of the older ones become independent and go off and live on their own is this:
These parents knew the years and years of prisoner-like captivity
and abuse and neglect was flat out wrong. If they allowed any of
them to escape, the parents would risk getting exposed. And they
knew they could be put away.
this is also why I suspect we will hear much more grotesque
types of abuse and much more hints of sexual abuse.
Keeping the family secrets was a huge, everyday task in this family.
I suspect momma had a lot of practice as a child-teen growing up.
And daddy probably had overly strict, borderline abusive parents.
We only know a fraction of what will come out in a trial. MOO.

True. But then again, if they were so serious about keeping them quiet and out of everyone else's sight, why would she want a reality show with all of the kids? How is that compatible with the extreme secrecy they have been living in for decades? It's pretty obvious that both of them knew that everything they were subjecting their children to was undeniably and inexcusably wrong but, at least the mother has many, many, many screws loose and many deep seeded issues. Nothing can justify what they have done but I think it's safe to say that a normal personal would not do anything even close to what they have done. They are sick in the head for sure. And just pure evil. They messed up their own children so badly.

 

[bears10]

True. But then again, if they were so serious about keeping them quiet and out of everyone else's sight, why would she want a reality show with all of the kids? How is that compatible with the extreme secrecy they have been living in for decades? It's pretty obvious that both of them knew that everything they were subjecting their children to was undeniably and inexcusably wrong but, at least the mother has many, many, many screws loose and many deep seeded issues. Nothing can justify what they have done but I think it's safe to say that a normal personal would not do anything even close to what they have done. They are sick in the head for sure. And just pure evil. They messed up their own children so badly.

I don't believe she really said she wanted a reality show. Or if she did say it, I don't believe she really meant it.

 

[enelram]

True. But then again, if they were so serious about keeping them quiet and out of everyone else's sight, why would she want a reality show with all of the kids? How is that compatible with the extreme secrecy they have been living in for decades? It's pretty obvious that both of them knew that everything they were subjecting their children to was undeniably and inexcusably wrong but, at least the mother has many, many, many screws loose and many deep seeded issues. Nothing can justify what they have done but I think it's safe to say that a normal personal would not do anything even close to what they have done. They are sick in the head for sure. And just pure evil. They messed up their own children so badly.

The reality show comment was made by the attention seeking sister. I don't believe for a minute this was a plan.

Also regarding the filth, smell and dirt in the home, maybe Louise grew up in a filthy, smelly, dirty home. Children (and later adults) learn from how they lived. Not everyone values cleanliness and orderliness.

 

[Amonet]

True. But then again, if they were so serious about keeping them quiet and out of everyone else's sight, why would she want a reality show with all of the kids? How is that compatible with the extreme secrecy they have been living in for decades? It's pretty obvious that both of them knew that everything they were subjecting their children to was undeniably and inexcusably wrong but, at least the mother has many, many, many screws loose and many deep seeded issues. Nothing can justify what they have done but I think it's safe to say that a normal personal would not do anything even close to what they have done. They are sick in the head for sure. And just pure evil. They messed up their own children so badly.

I don't think she really wanted a reality show with all the kids, I think saying that she wanted the reality show was just like the facade of giving the kids clean clothes to wear for a few hours outside the house and then making them put dirty clothes back on as soon as they get back behind closed doors. I think it's part of creating an illusion that everything is okay, better than okay, so there's no need for anyone to ask questions because we've got the happiest family in the world!

I think these things also show that she knew what was going on in the house was wrong. If LT was mentally ill to the point of not knowing the dirty clothes were unacceptable then she wouldn't have the kids take a bath and wear clean clothes before going out on these special family outings and then put them back into filthy clothes afterwards. I think LT (and DT too, I'm not letting him off the hook by only talking about her in this post) is showing that she knew what was happening inside the house needed to be kept a secret because it was wrong.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think the phrase "child hoarder" might be more apt than people realize.

My dad was a hoarder (fortunately, of the paper/boxes/clothing variety rather than the food/animals variety) and I had the unusual and cathartic experience of cleaning out the house after his death.

My understanding of the various mindsets of the hoarding illness include the idea that "I have really neat plans for this stuff, once I can just get organized" with no apparent recognition that the stuff is currently being kept in conditions that are ruining its potential for future use and degrading any objective value (my dad had some collectible books, magazines, newspapers, and vintage toys, but didn't keep them in a condition that preserved their value).

Substituting "kids" for "stuff" I can imagine a person in the grips of that dysfunctional hoarding mindset/mental illness thinking they were working their way toward a neat family reality show in the future, even while their current state of overwhelm, along with whatever other issues allowed them to think it was ok to treat the kids so horribly, was clearly making that future fantasy impossible.

It's not rational but that doesn't stop it from being a common mindset for hoarders.

 

[Amonet]

I think the phrase "child hoarder" might be more apt than people realize.

My dad was a hoarder (fortunately, of the paper/boxes/clothing variety rather than the food/animals variety) and I had the unusual and cathartic experience of cleaning out the house after his death.

My understanding of the various mindsets of the hoarding illness include the idea that "I have really neat plans for this stuff, once I can just get organized" with no apparent recognition that the stuff is currently being kept in conditions that are ruining its potential for future use and degrading any objective value (my dad had some collectible books, magazines, newspapers, and vintage toys, but didn't keep them in a condition that preserved their value).

Substituting "kids" for "stuff" I cam imagine a person in the grips of that dysfunctional hoarding mindset/mental illness thinking they were working their way toward a neat family reality show in the future, even while their current state of overwhelm, along with whatever other issues allowed them to think it was ok to treat the kids so horribly, was clearly making that future fantasy impossible.

It's not rational but that doesn't stop it from being a common mindset for hoarders.

You might have hit on something for some large families who end up struggling to cope. I think with the T's that it has always been about more than struggling to cope, though. I think all this started back when D and L had only one or two children.

I wonder if the hygiene thing is partly about saying "you don't deserve nice things like showers"? I don't think it's about laziness or the money for water, I think it's yet another level of punishment on the siblings just for existing.

 

[claudianunes]

I think the phrase "child hoarder" might be more apt than people realize.

My dad was a hoarder (fortunately, of the paper/boxes/clothing variety rather than the food/animals variety) and I had the unusual and cathartic experience of cleaning out the house after his death.

My understanding of the various mindsets of the hoarding illness include the idea that "I have really neat plans for this stuff, once I can just get organized" with no apparent recognition that the stuff is currently being kept in conditions that are ruining its potential for future use and degrading any objective value (my dad had some collectible books, magazines, newspapers, and vintage toys, but didn't keep them in a condition that preserved their value).

Substituting "kids" for "stuff" I cam imagine a person in the grips of that dysfunctional hoarding mindset/mental illness thinking they were working their way toward a neat family reality show in the future, even while their current state of overwhelm, along with whatever other issues allowed them to think it was ok to treat the kids so horribly, was clearly making that future fantasy impossible.

It's not rational but that doesn't stop it from being a common mindset for hoarders.

Amazing post. Great points. Thank you so much for sharing this!

 

[gitana1]

Is this a direct result of the malnutrition or did something else cause this? Wondering out loud...

Malnutrition and lack of exercise.

Why did she have so many kids when it's clear she hates them? Such a bizarre case.

 

[gitana1]

Here's one:
'House of horrors' mom weeps in court as she hears 17-year-old daughter's 911 call | Daily Mail Online

I'm positive she's weeping for herself. That this was the call that ended her reign of terror and caused her to be arrested. Not for the horror she inflicted on her children.

 

[gitana1]

I don't understand the judge allowing their sitting that way, either! I've seen lots of cases with co-defendants having their own counsel and they're always sitting in a row. Why allow them to make eye contact or tempt them to speak to one another? I don't get it.

I was hoping to see her "in tears" so I could determine for myself rather than reading it from a reporter, lol. IF, IF, IF the tears were real, they could only be for herself and her beloved partner in depraved crime. If she felt that kind of empathy or even sympathy for her own children, they wouldn't have done what they did.

AND, what's with the defense lawyer objecting to behavior just because it occurred in another state? It's still the same perpetrators with the same victims.

Yeah, I find it gross when men have long fingernails.

Anything that happened in Texas has to be tried in Texas.

 

[human]

I'm positive she's weeping for herself. That this was the call that ended her reign of terror and caused her to be arrested. Not for the horror she inflicted on her children.

Yup. Busted. She was able to inflict more and more punishment because she could.

It reminds me of the Hillside Stranglers, cousins. They experimented on doing painful things to their victims.

So did the Turpins. Serial killers in their own special way