Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[andreww]

If my theory of overseas professional assassins, is valid, we can expect very little information from TPS or other official sources. There is very likely very little direct evidence that will give TPS any solid leads. Possibly they have some 'subjects' they are surveilling with the hope of a 'break' in the case.

The lack of a reward being offered could point to the fact TPS has a pretty good idea who and how the crimes were committed but do not have enough evidence or the jurisdictional ability to lay charges.

A reward would only bring in false leads and tips.

Here is a variation on my theory that might be plausible.

A bad guy escapes to Canada from Country 'A' after stealing a great deal of money from the Government of Country 'A'.
Country 'A' has the death penalty and no extradition treaty with Canada. Canada will not send the bad guy back to Country 'A'.
Country 'A' decides to send a message to Canada. We will assassinate a prominent, politically-connected couple if you do not return the bad guy. Canada does not return the bad guy.

Result kinda makes sense, doesn't it.

Um, no it doesn't.

 

[WINDSOR]

Andreww, what makes sense to you?

 

[andreww]

Andreww, what makes sense to you?

Barry killed Honey and staged it. Family's money and contacts were enough to get police to rule it a double murder so as to preserve Barry's legacy. Simple as that.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Somewhat off topic .... but I had mentioned this before .... there is a multi billion dollar "seedy side" within the big pharma industry .... manufactures know full well they are supplying huge amounts of their product that is not always sold thru legitimate pharmacies. And even the legitimate ones are aggressively marketed. Sometimes it is all about the money. Yet everybody is afraid to speak out because some folks think big pharma is akin to godhood or something

..........................................
This recent article hints at it. Opioid death toll in Canada nearly 4,000 last year, new data show | CBC News
Nearly 4,000 Canadians died from apparent opioid overdoses last year, with men the most likely victims and fentanyl the clear culprit, new government figures show.

The numbers released Tuesday came as the federal government announced plans to severely restrict the way drug companies market opioids to doctors.
...................................

 

[kay74]

.

Somewhat off topic .... but I had mentioned this before .... there is a multi billion dollar "seedy side" within the big pharma industry .... manufactures know full well they are supplying huge amounts of their product that is not always sold thru legitimate pharmacies. And even the legitimate ones are aggressively marketed. Sometimes it is all about the money. Yet everybody is afraid to speak out because some folks think big pharma is akin to godhood or something

..........................................
This recent article hints at it. Opioid death toll in Canada nearly 4,000 last year, new data show | CBC News
Nearly 4,000 Canadians died from apparent opioid overdoses last year, with men the most likely victims and fentanyl the clear culprit, new government figures show.

The numbers released Tuesday came as the federal government announced plans to severely restrict the way drug companies market opioids to doctors.
...................................

Heroin with fentanyl, is coming from China through the Mexican border and from Mexicans too.

 

[dotr]

Perhaps in order to truly kill one, the other had to die too. imo.
The mystery of the strangled billionaires
"At their funeral, their son Jonathon called them "yin and yang".

"They completed a circle that encompassed everything important about what it means to be human," he said. "Neither one perfect but together wholly balanced and exceptional."

"You were like a lock and a key, each pretty useless on your own. But together you unlocked the whole world for yourselves, and for us, and so many others."

"Rubin says while Barry was tough, he can't comprehend who would kill him and Honey with such "hatred".

"I can't believe that my friend Barry... would die in this horrible way," he said. "The riddle is - who did it and why?"

 

[WINDSOR]

Barry killed Honey and staged it. Family's money and contacts were enough to get police to rule it a double murder so as to preserve Barry's legacy. Simple as that.

Barry and Honey meet with the architect at Apotex, they both leave in separate vehicles to return home. Honey arrives home first and leaves her outdoor clothes on, while waiting for Barry to arrive. For some undetermined reason, Barry attacks Honey when he arrives, they struggle, Barry chokes her to death. restrains her hands, and hangs her from the pool railing. Barry then removes the restraints from her hands and hides them. Keep in mind that Barry has had no history of violent or abusive behaviour. He does all this while wearing his winter coat. There are no wounds on Barry from the struggle with Honey. Barry makes marks on his wrists as if they were restrained, then hangs himself beside Honey. Barry does all this because he wants people to believe he and Honey were murdered, which will preserve Barry's legacy. The police collude with the family to rule it a double murder. Even though the police will spend tremendous amounts of time and money pursuing a phantom murderer, they want to help the family maintain its legacy so they keep up the charade. As a result everybody in Canada feels warm and fuzzy about the Sherman legacy, because the Sherman's were murdered rather than murder/suicide.

Sorry that does not make sense to me.

 

[andreww]

Barry and Honey meet with the architect at Apotex, they both leave in separate vehicles to return home. Honey arrives home first and leaves her outdoor clothes on, while waiting for Barry to arrive. For some undetermined reason, Barry attacks Honey when he arrives, they struggle, Barry chokes her to death. restrains her hands, and hangs her from the pool railing. Barry then removes the restraints from her hands and hides them. Keep in mind that Barry has had no history of violent or abusive behaviour. He does all this while wearing his winter coat. There are no wounds on Barry from the struggle with Honey. Barry makes marks on his wrists as if they were restrained, then hangs himself beside Honey. Barry does all this because he wants people to believe he and Honey were murdered, which will preserve Barry's legacy. The police collude with the family to rule it a double murder. Even though the police will spend tremendous amounts of time and money pursuing a phantom murderer, they want to help the family maintain its legacy so they keep up the charade. As a result everybody in Canada feels warm and fuzzy about the Sherman legacy, because the Sherman's were murdered rather than murder/suicide.

Sorry that does not make sense to me.

First of all, you are putting in a lot of items that simply aren't fact. When you say Honey was wearing outdoor clothing, that is not true. All we know is that she was wearing the same clothing that she wore at the meeting earlier in the day, likely casual clothing. You talk about hand restraints, but again, these are things that the coroner never noted and were only pointed out by the family hired expert (hired specifically to dispel the suicide theory).

I'm not sure that Barry was trying to stage this as a murder or double suicide, he was simply trying to hide the fact that he had murdered his wife. Why did he take her to the pool area? He had already strangled his wife, so that had to be the method for both of them. There are not many places in a house that you can hang yourself and your wife side by side, so the pool would likely have been his only choice. I would assume that he likely dragged her there by her wrist as I'm not sure he was in a physical condition to carry 120lbs that distance. This is where I would guess that the abrasions to Honeys wrists came from.

As for the jackets behind their backs, Barry may have been aware (as I am) that when somebody is being strangled or choked, the natural reaction is to claw at your throat. This leaves marks, and their had to be an explanation as to why Honey did not have these marks. The jackets acted as a straight jacket of sorts, insuring that there was no marks.

Lastly, the police spent considerable time search sewers and roofs. In my opinion they were looking for a phone that may have been missing. IMO Barry researched how to do this after Honey was dead and at some point he left the home to dispose of the device to ensure nobody would be able to check its history.

And remember, the family was irate at the suggestion that police considered this a murder suicide. It was then that they assembled a team to refute that suggestion. Either they didn't trust the police, or they simply didn't like what the police were telling them. I believe the latter.

The family was connected politically, and after face to face encounters at the funeral, it is more than a coincidence that the mayor met with the police chief to discuss this case. And very coincidental that within days of that meeting the police announced what the family wanted all along, that this was a double homicide. What makes all of this even more suspicious is that since that day there has not been a word spoken by LE, by the family, or by the family's investigative team. LE can be quite, but they do generally plea to the public for assistance. The family, with unlimited resources, should have offered some sort of massive reward for info by now. And the family's investigators were all over the new from the moment they were hired, yet nothing but crickets since the announcement. IMO there is a consensus by all parties that the sooner people forget about this case, the better.

 

[Tortoise]

First of all, you are putting in a lot of items that simply aren't fact. When you say Honey was wearing outdoor clothing, that is not true. All we know is that she was wearing the same clothing that she wore at the meeting earlier in the day, likely casual clothing. You talk about hand restraints, but again, these are things that the coroner never noted and were only pointed out by the family hired expert (hired specifically to dispel the suicide theory).

I'm not sure that Barry was trying to stage this as a murder or double suicide, he was simply trying to hide the fact that he had murdered his wife. Why did he take her to the pool area? He had already strangled his wife, so that had to be the method for both of them. There are not many places in a house that you can hang yourself and your wife side by side, so the pool would likely have been his only choice. I would assume that he likely dragged her there by her wrist as I'm not sure he was in a physical condition to carry 120lbs that distance. This is where I would guess that the abrasions to Honeys wrists came from.

As for the jackets behind their backs, Barry may have been aware (as I am) that when somebody is being strangled or choked, the natural reaction is to claw at your throat. This leaves marks, and their had to be an explanation as to why Honey did not have these marks. The jackets acted as a straight jacket of sorts, insuring that there was no marks.

Lastly, the police spent considerable time search sewers and roofs. In my opinion they were looking for a phone that may have been missing. IMO Barry researched how to do this after Honey was dead and at some point he left the home to dispose of the device to ensure nobody would be able to check its history.

And remember, the family was irate at the suggestion that police considered this a murder suicide. It was then that they assembled a team to refute that suggestion. Either they didn't trust the police, or they simply didn't like what the police were telling them. I believe the latter.

The family was connected politically, and after face to face encounters at the funeral, it is more than a coincidence that the mayor met with the police chief to discuss this case. And very coincidental that within days of that meeting the police announced what the family wanted all along, that this was a double homicide. What makes all of this even more suspicious is that since that day there has not been a word spoken by LE, by the family, or by the family's investigative team. LE can be quite, but they do generally plea to the public for assistance. The family, with unlimited resources, should have offered some sort of massive reward for info by now. And the family's investigators were all over the new from the moment they were hired, yet nothing but crickets since the announcement. IMO there is a consensus by all parties that the sooner people forget about this case, the better.

But on your version if he had already strangled her before dragging her to the pool and then arranging her jacket, why didn't she have claw marks that you describe?

 

[andreww]

But on your version if he had already strangled her before dragging her to the pool and then arranging her jacket, why didn't she have claw marks that you describe?

Because he may have been on top of her or his hands may have prevented her from doing so.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

First of all, you are putting in a lot of items that simply aren't fact. When you say Honey was wearing outdoor clothing, that is not true. All we know is that she was wearing the same clothing that she wore at the meeting earlier in the day, likely casual clothing. You talk about hand restraints, but again, these are things that the coroner never noted and were only pointed out by the family hired expert (hired specifically to dispel the suicide theory).

I'm not sure that Barry was trying to stage this as a murder or double suicide, he was simply trying to hide the fact that he had murdered his wife. Why did he take her to the pool area? He had already strangled his wife, so that had to be the method for both of them. There are not many places in a house that you can hang yourself and your wife side by side, so the pool would likely have been his only choice. I would assume that he likely dragged her there by her wrist as I'm not sure he was in a physical condition to carry 120lbs that distance. This is where I would guess that the abrasions to Honeys wrists came from.

As for the jackets behind their backs, Barry may have been aware (as I am) that when somebody is being strangled or choked, the natural reaction is to claw at your throat. This leaves marks, and their had to be an explanation as to why Honey did not have these marks. The jackets acted as a straight jacket of sorts, insuring that there was no marks.

Lastly, the police spent considerable time search sewers and roofs. In my opinion they were looking for a phone that may have been missing. IMO Barry researched how to do this after Honey was dead and at some point he left the home to dispose of the device to ensure nobody would be able to check its history.

And remember, the family was irate at the suggestion that police considered this a murder suicide. It was then that they assembled a team to refute that suggestion. Either they didn't trust the police, or they simply didn't like what the police were telling them. I believe the latter.

The family was connected politically, and after face to face encounters at the funeral, it is more than a coincidence that the mayor met with the police chief to discuss this case. And very coincidental that within days of that meeting the police announced what the family wanted all along, that this was a double homicide. What makes all of this even more suspicious is that since that day there has not been a word spoken by LE, by the family, or by the family's investigative team. LE can be quite, but they do generally plea to the public for assistance. The family, with unlimited resources, should have offered some sort of massive reward for info by now. And the family's investigators were all over the new from the moment they were hired, yet nothing but crickets since the announcement. IMO there is a consensus by all parties that the sooner people forget about this case, the better.

How do they shut up Kerry now?

 

[andreww]

How do they shut up Kerry now?

They don't have to. The family has already discredited him publicly saying that he has had a mental breakdown. I've chatted with the guy online and he didn't seem like someone that was unstable, they just didn't like what he was saying. But the family is in control of everything right now and they will just attribute anything Kerry says to his mental state.

 

[hudunit]

It would be interesting to know if the coroner was able to determine time of death for both and if Honey was killed shortly before Barry.All the moving of her body would have to have occured at most 2 hours after her death because rigor mortis would have set in by then.I would guess she was hung up within 2 hours of death.After that Barry died and I wonder how long after Honey's death this occurred.It could have been hours.Could an autopsy dtermine this accurately?

 

[andreww]

It would be interesting to know if the coroner was able to determine time of death for both and if Honey was killed shortly before Barry.All the moving of her body would have to have occured at most 2 hours after her death because rigor mortis would have set in by then.I would guess she was hung up within 2 hours of death.After that Barry died and I wonder how long after Honey's death this occurred.It could have been hours.Could an autopsy dtermine this accurately?

Rigor Mortis does not even begin to set in for at least 2-6 hours. Takes about 12 hours to fully stiffen up.

 

[hudunit]

These"murders" were commited by someone who knew their schedules and also knew that they had lots of time.Most hired killers are in and out quickly.If someone was there for so long,there had to be some clue left behind.There was nothing that we know of.Probably there would be DNA or prints from Barry and Honey,but they lived there.Maybe some from the help,but they worked there.Nothing.....

 

[hudunit]

If Honey was killed 10ish,one would have about 12 hours to set up the body.Still indicates to me that someone was very confidant that they would not be interrupted and knew they had lots of time before being discovered.

 

[dotr]

Re post
CANADA - Celia, Isaac & Avrom Airst, Toronto, 30 September 1979

High-profile cases like the Sherman deaths no easier to solve for police, experts say | CBC News
"High-profile cases like the Sherman deaths no easier to solve for police, experts say
Investigations involving prominent community members come with unique challenges"
Lauren Pelley · CBC News · Posted: Jan 03, 2018

"Despite the overwhelming public interest in police investigations involving prominent community members, experts say answers in high-profile cases don't always come quickly. These cases also come with their own set of challenges, according to current and former police officers, be it increased public scrutiny or a larger, more time-consuming investigation stemming from the victims' large social networks."

"When you have high-profile cases, they garner more media attention, they garner more attention from the public, and everyone's talking about them because it was someone that was well-known or someone that was rich and famous," explained Det.-Sgt. Stacy Gallant, who handles cold cases with Toronto police's homicide squad.

But when someone has an extensive network of friends and family in Toronto and beyond, "then you have more interviews to do, you have more people to contact, you have more to investigate," he said.

'It takes time sometimes'
A year after the Fagan murders, another prominent Toronto family was struck by tragedy. Just minutes away from the Fagan home, three members of the Airst family — Isaac and Celia Airst, and their son, Avrom — were found bludgeoned to death inside their home in the Glencairn Avenue and Englemount Avenue area.

To this day, that high-profile case also remains unsolved.

While Gallant said there are no updates in either of those four-decade-old cases, he stressed that investigators treat all cases with the same level of care, high-profile or not. Some, he added, just take longer than others."

 

[casesensitive]

They don't have to. The family has already discredited him publicly saying that he has had a mental breakdown. I've chatted with the guy online and he didn't seem like someone that was unstable, they just didn't like what he was saying. But the family is in control of everything right now and they will just attribute anything Kerry says to his mental state.

It wasn't the Sherman family, it was Kerry's family (sister-in-law Julia) who said he had a nervous breakdown following the Sherman's deaths. Julia Winter filed an affidavit to the court to have him cut off from providing any further instructions to their lawyer Brad Teplitsky, and from participating in any decision-making re litigation with her and his brother Tim.

"Teplitsky asked the court to require Winter to undergo a mental health examination to see whether the Office of the Public Guardian should be appointed as his litigation guardian. He’s now agreed to the assessment."

Has Kerry's mental health been assessed yet? I sincerely hope that he is doing well.

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court

 

[kay74]

Has it ever been mentioned if the Sherman's have a gun? If this was suicide he would have shot her and himself. WHY go through all these shenanigans with zip ties, belts and jackets. IMO 2 homicides.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Barry killed Honey and staged it. Family's money and contacts were enough to get police to rule it a double murder so as to preserve Barry's legacy. Simple as that.

So agree.