GUILTY CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #12

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I can’t remember. I know it wasn’t too far, but I thought some of the early reports were that they lived separate from the kids for a while. Darn my memory!!

My memory was that the parents lived in a separate dwelling on the same property. I don’t recall knowing that they lived in a different town until reading the court info yesterday. Maybe that info isn’t new someone else though, but it is to me.
 
My memory was that the parents lived in a separate dwelling on the same property. I don’t recall knowing that they lived in a different town until reading the court info yesterday. Maybe that info isn’t new someone else though, but it is to me.
I knew that before, but I somehow thought it was in the same town, just a different house. If they only ate peanut butter sandwiches, I suppose the parents didn't have to visit often with food. I wonder if the kids bathed, then or were they too institutionalised to act on their own.
 
It looks like the prosecution is arguing it should come in as evidence because it gives context and shows that the California abuse was part of a "habit" of abuse. But any actual abuse counts cannot be charged or prosecuted in CA that arose from conduct occurring in another state.

ETA: Whether it comes in will be the subject of "motions in limine" which will be decided at trial right as it starts. I can't make a prediction. It will be interesting to see.

I see, thanks. I was confused as to why the prosecution brought up those things, but now I recall the defense arguing against a 'conditioning' theory. So that means the prosecution wanted those things to be allowed in evidence to show the conditioning of the older kids to explain why they didn't run away even though some of them were allowed greater freedom and they too were watching their younger siblings suffer at the hands of DT and LT.

I tend to agree with the prosecution on that, I don't think they should give the defense the space to say the older kids stayed out of free will when it's so much more psychologically complex than that.
 
.........

I can 'edit' and 'report', but no option to 'delete'

ARGHHH the above ........ is only because I had started typing a question, changed my mind, but couldn't delete the post, I could only edit it so I replaced the text with the dots. Then, I decided to add this explanation because this isn't the first time I've had this problem.

I closed my browser, cleared my cookies, etc., logged back in and the original partial post was STILL THERE - greyed out and non-deletable as before, but at least I could edit it.

There was no option available for 'delete' just the options for edit and post.

Bottom line: it seems as though once I begin a post, there's no going back even if it's within a few seconds and I haven't posted it yet.
 
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I see, thanks. I was confused as to why the prosecution brought up those things, but now I recall the defense arguing against a 'conditioning' theory. So that means the prosecution wanted those things to be allowed in evidence to show the conditioning of the older kids to explain why they didn't run away even though some of them were allowed greater freedom and they too were watching their younger siblings suffer at the hands of DT and LT.

I tend to agree with the prosecution on that, I don't think they should give the defense the space to say the older kids stayed out of free will when it's so much more psychologically complex than that.

BBM. I couldn't agree more. These siblings, had no idea how the world worked and although they must have known on some level that it wasn't normal, it was all that they were used to.
I cannot believe the bravery of the 17 year old who did escape. She will be the one who recovers best from this, I think. She has strength and would not accept these people's cruelty.
 
.........

I can 'edit' and 'report', but no option to 'delete'

ARGHHH the above ........ is only because I had started typing a question, changed my mind, but couldn't delete the post, I could only edit it so I replaced the text with the dots. Then, I decided to add this explanation because this isn't the first time I've had this problem.

I closed my browser, cleared my cookies, etc., logged back in and the original partial post was STILL THERE - greyed out and non-deletable as before, but at least I could edit it.

There was no option available for 'delete' just the options for edit and post.

Bottom line: it seems as though once I begin a post, there's no going back even if it's within a few seconds and I haven't posted it yet.
I can delete text before I have posted it, and you can delete the greyed out text.
 
.........

I can 'edit' and 'report', but no option to 'delete'

ARGHHH the above ........ is only because I had started typing a question, changed my mind, but couldn't delete the post, I could only edit it so I replaced the text with the dots. Then, I decided to add this explanation because this isn't the first time I've had this problem.

I closed my browser, cleared my cookies, etc., logged back in and the original partial post was STILL THERE - greyed out and non-deletable as before, but at least I could edit it.

There was no option available for 'delete' just the options for edit and post.

Bottom line: it seems as though once I begin a post, there's no going back even if it's within a few seconds and I haven't posted it yet.

I hear you! This was discussed recently on the Welcome thread. If you click on the little square “disc”shape on the second row of the tools at the top of your post, fifth from the left, you will have the option to save or delete your draft. Hope that works!

ETA: It may not appear in that exact position. When I edit a post, as I am right now, all the tools are on one line and I don’t see the little square anymore. It’s there when I’m typing my original post.

One of these threads should have the answer.
Welcome To Websleuths
 
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.........

I can 'edit' and 'report', but no option to 'delete'

ARGHHH the above ........ is only because I had started typing a question, changed my mind, but couldn't delete the post, I could only edit it so I replaced the text with the dots. Then, I decided to add this explanation because this isn't the first time I've had this problem.

I closed my browser, cleared my cookies, etc., logged back in and the original partial post was STILL THERE - greyed out and non-deletable as before, but at least I could edit it.

There was no option available for 'delete' just the options for edit and post.

Bottom line: it seems as though once I begin a post, there's no going back even if it's within a few seconds and I haven't posted it yet.


Same here, and then I realized that's why we see so many posts with "..."

I don't think deleting a post completely is an option anymore with the new software.
 
I hear you! This was discussed recently on the Welcome thread. If you click on the little square “disc”shape on the second row of the tools at the top of your post, fifth from the left, you will have the option to save or delete your draft. Hope that works!

ETA: It may not appear in that exact position. When I edit a post, as I am right now, all the tools are on one line and I don’t see the little square anymore. It’s there when I’m typing my original post.

One of these threads should have the answer.
Welcome To Websleuths

Previously, you had up to 60 Minutes to delete your post completely. After it was posted. If I recall correctly.
 
I wonder if the hygiene thing is partly about saying "you don't deserve nice things like showers"? I don't think it's about laziness or the money for water, I think it's yet another level of punishment on the siblings just for existing.

I was raised by a bi polar nurse and an alcoholic father who was a professor at the local university. My mother would either clean obsessively or allow the house to become filthy to the point that had child services ever come to our house we would have been removed (cats allowed to relieve themselves throughout house and not cleaned up for months at a time among other things). We were always told it was our fault our home was the way it was and if we were better children our home wouldn’t be the way it was. Eventually she would clean it up. Well, as good as you could clean it after months of filth building up. However, she wouldn’t clean our rooms. Instead she’d leave us, as children, responsible to clean our rooms because, in her opinion and words we were so bad and worthless and caused the house to be like it was. This resulted in the rooms only being cleaned as well as young children could which wasn’t well at all! So we grew up in a filthy environment that was her way of punishing us (mostly just for existing more than anything else). So what you wrote and I quoted above rings true to me. And while I’m pretty sure there is some mental illness going on with LT, she knew it was wrong to keep her kids in filth as evidenced by the vacation clothes and baths.

My own experience gives me hope that these children can learn a normal, healthy way to live. I have.
 
This is new information to me... other may have heard this.

From article: Parents of 13 captive siblings must stand trial on dozens of felony charges, judge rules

One of the siblings, a 25-year-old, told investigators that the parents also abandoned their children for about three or four years, leaving them to live in a trailer in the small town of Rio Vista, Texas, while the couple lived in an apartment not far away. He and his older sister were left in charge, investigators said.

Despite being absent, the parents continued communicating with the siblings by phone and forcing the two older children to punish the others — including by putting them in cages or a kennel, investigators said.
 
Yikes! MANY parents, my father included and now my DH (though not a father) drive farther 50 miles or have a longer commute time than 1.5 hours or work 12 - 15 hrs/day in the hopes they can avoid rush hours. Many, many parents go where the work is and if it's viable, then 50 miles move the family closer to their job, if possible. It would never occur to my parents or my DH to leave the kidlets on their own. I get that the oldest children were left in charge of the younger, but who (but narcissistic, selfish losers) would consider them to be responsible, mature or experienced enough to care for vulnerable children when they could barely care for themselves? Not one of those children, and they are children, not responsible adults, were adequately able to care for vulnerable beings. They all survived, but we no one thrived; the adult children did the best they could. Being an adult chronologically is not the same as being a responsible adult. They can be and are dependent children. It's not the children's fault, they only knew what was filtered through their idiot parents since they had little or no contact with an outside world. For the defense to argue that they were not 'dependent' is outrageous and ridiculous and anyone with half a brain can see that. Thankfully.
 
I can delete text before I have posted it, and you can delete the greyed out text.

In the sense that I can backspace and delete what's there, I can do that. However, the open dialog box remains open and won't go away unless I hit 'Post Reply' and I can't delete that, either.

Last night before shutting down, I deleted the text (the open dialog box remained, I couldn't get rid of it), I cleared my cache, cookies and browsing history. Closed all internet windows. Shut Down the puter. When I booted up this morning and came here....WHAMMO! There was the same durned dialog box WITH THE ORIGINAL GREYED OUT TEXT that I had backspaced/deleted last night smacking me in the face. So, I went with it and typed something else so I wouldn't be posting another "........" annoyance.

This new version of WS is different from the last as far as being able to delete, edit, no more funny little gifs (wah, I miss the rimshot guy, lol). Once I begin typing, there's no deleting.

For a long time, the old version also allowed me up to four hours to edit and/or delete entire posts. I first came here for Jessica Chambers, so either December 2014 or January 2015.

NoDelete.jpg
 
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This is new information to me... other may have heard this.

From article: Parents of 13 captive siblings must stand trial on dozens of felony charges, judge rules

One of the siblings, a 25-year-old, told investigators that the parents also abandoned their children for about three or four years, leaving them to live in a trailer in the small town of Rio Vista, Texas, while the couple lived in an apartment not far away. He and his older sister were left in charge, investigators said.

Despite being absent, the parents continued communicating with the siblings by phone and forcing the two older children to punish the others — including by putting them in cages or a kennel, investigators said.

I don't remember how long ago they moved from TX to California...does anyone have any idea of the oldest ages the siblings could have been when this happened?
 
Even if it was further, and too far for a daily commute, in most families, the father would stay in the other town, four nights a week and come home on Friday afternoon. My daughters family did this for five years until the kids finished school.
I have known a lot of men who are away from their families for very long periods of time. Usually because of their job. The military for one example. They can be away from their families for months or even years. So I don't think that it is particularly unusual for many men to be away from their families for more then one week.
 
Same here, and then I realized that's why we see so many posts with "..."

<snipped>

FYI in professional writing (e.g. in articles, briefs, etc.) "...." is the same as what is used on this forum <snipped> or <snipped by me>. Also the sometimes relevant <mod snipped>. This is to keep quotes to the point. However, what is left of the quote still has to make (good English) sense and cannot misrepresent the context.

Hope that helps.
 
I have known a lot of men who are away from their families for very long periods of time. Usually because of their job. The military for one example. They can be away from their families for months or even years. So I don't think that it is particularly unusual for many men to be away from their families for more then one week.

Oops! Should read "parents" instead of "men"?

_____

As far as I can tell, both parents abandoned their children for weeks (months? years?) at a whack. This is a whole 'nother issue than a parent having to be away because of work. If both parents have to be away (e.g. deployed military), they place children with a guardian, most often a caring relative.
 
I was raised by a bi polar nurse and an alcoholic father who was a professor at the local university. My mother would either clean obsessively or allow the house to become filthy to the point that had child services ever come to our house we would have been removed (cats allowed to relieve themselves throughout house and not cleaned up for months at a time among other things). We were always told it was our fault our home was the way it was and if we were better children our home wouldn’t be the way it was. Eventually she would clean it up. Well, as good as you could clean it after months of filth building up. However, she wouldn’t clean our rooms. Instead she’d leave us, as children, responsible to clean our rooms because, in her opinion and words we were so bad and worthless and caused the house to be like it was. This resulted in the rooms only being cleaned as well as young children could which wasn’t well at all! So we grew up in a filthy environment that was her way of punishing us (mostly just for existing more than anything else). So what you wrote and I quoted above rings true to me. And while I’m pretty sure there is some mental illness going on with LT, she knew it was wrong to keep her kids in filth as evidenced by the vacation clothes and baths.

My own experience gives me hope that these children can learn a normal, healthy way to live. I have.
(Hugs)
 
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