CA - Malibu Creek State Park Shooting, Tristan Beaudette, 35, 22 June 2018 *Arrest*

[azure]

Sorry for the phone screenshot, but I thought it might be worthwhile to show everyone exactly how close this state park is to LA. MCSP is 37 miles from the center of LA. While the park itself is large, and I know from experience it can feel pretty isolated out there, this is smack dab in the second largest city in the US. It’s definitely not remote or isolated.

Just wanted to help anyone unfamiliar visualize the area!

 

[Amonet]

I'm not sure about politics and the relative merits of accident vs. no accident theories. And I hate to be stereotyping.

My perpsective was more about human nature:
200 feet from the road? Let me propose a gun-toter who pulled off by the road for a pee, dropped trow in semi-darkness, and thought he was about to get attacked by an animal, so he shot at where the sound was coming from (the unfortunate wildlife biologist), not being able to see clearly 'n all. The sound was coming from head height, so it must be a really BIG animal.

Thankfully, no animal attack ensued, so he hauled up trow, jumped back into his vehicle, and with a squeal of tires, got the heck out of there. Shaking all over: animals in the dark, attacking animals, big animals, wild animals, mountain lions coyotes, bears, animals way over my head, anything that makes a rustling noise when he can't tell what it is, scare the heck out of him. Whew!

I'll bet the wildlife biologist's hammock was black, dark brown, or dark green. He wriggled and sighed.

Who would carry a shotgun loaded with birdshot? What would its useful range and normal purpose be?

One of the other attacks, on a vehicle, was described by a poster here as being a shotgun slug, not birdshot.

We have no idea what TB was shot with.

To people who know guns, would you likely connect the first two? What would you think about the motivation of the person (and the normal shot potentials) carrying each gun considering what its loaded with at the time?

ETA what I'm gathering so far is that the two incidents I picked out are more likely relatively closer range, but I don't know what the upper and lower limits of that range would be.

It's possible that TB was killed by a handgun or a rifle, possibly a long-distance rifle shot. I would think that would reduce the chance of the TB shooting being connected to the others.

 

[carbuff]

I'm looking at probabilities. Since there is no legal hunting anywhere around and I've never heard of any issues with poaching in the area, it's seems a remote possibility, especially when compared with the coincidences of random shootings in the area.

I mean these are not vast tracts of wilderness lands, in which someone could go out hunting, get by vehicle to a remote area where no one would hear them shoot a gun, and they could drag a deer to a vehicle and tie it down in a truck bed or whatever without worrying about detection. Most of the roads deeper into the wilderness are locked at night. The parking lots are close to well-traveled roads and there are tons of people at the campgrounds in June.

You know the area far better than I do, so I don't doubt the accuracy of your information.

But they arrested a poacher in the 50 or so acres of undeveloped land behind my house a couple of weeks ago, so I'm not sure wilderness is a requirement. (The poacher also lives adjacent to the woods.) I think maybe the requirements are just deer, and a firearm.

 

[Parks]

Good question! Seems odd!! Maybe like someone said he heard the first shot (brother in law says there were two holes in the tent) and then sat up?

Perhaps. I just find it hard to believe that two stray bullets from a distant poacher or whatever, could directly enter a tent and hit a man in the head, and amazingly both bullets missed the children. If that is what happened, the odds must be astronomical. Although that would be the preferable solution, because otherwise Malibu has a real problem on its hands.

Good question! Seems odd!! Maybe like someone said he heard the first shot (brother in law says there were two holes in the tent) and then sat up?

 

[Amonet]

Google search says 12 gauge deer slug will lose 60% of its energy at 100 yards. This would be in reference to the woman’s car that was shot. This is according to American Hunter. I really can’t tell the weight of the slug in the picture.

I also found this reference, not positive on the accuracy but it seems legit.
Slug types and distances

It shows a 1 oz slug traveling up to 3500 feet and a 410 slug about 2750 feet, that’s of course with out anything obstructing it. You start shooting that into the air and you have trajectories and physics I haven’t done since college.

That's great info, thank you!

Do you have any idea for the colors on the chart which would be the furthest right color to carry enough energy for a killing shot to the head?

 

[gitana1]

You know the area far better than I do, so I don't doubt the accuracy of your information.

But they arrested a poacher in the 50 or so acres of undeveloped land behind my house a couple of weeks ago, so I'm not sure wilderness is a requirement. (The poacher also lives adjacent to the woods.) I think maybe the requirements are just deer, and a firearm.

Yeah but that is going to be more common in areas where there is hunting, or near where there is hunting.

I'm going to do some research. See what I can find.

 

[Amonet]

Identity, Cause of Death Revealed in Calabasas Death

The Malibu Times
May 25, 2018

"The body discovered last Wednesday near Malibu Hindu Temple has been identified as 52-year-old Francisco Reynaldo Cruz, according to a spokesperson for the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office."

"The spokesperson said the death was "ruled a homicide." Investigators are still looking into the incident.

"He was not killed at that location. He was dropped there," LA County Sheriff's Department Lt. Scott Hoglund said in a phone call with The Malibu Times."

I'm thinking that if you have a favorite spot for close-distance sniping (if that's an acceptable term) that the last thing you want to do is to draw attention to it by hiding a body there. The body and the movement of the body doesn't seem to match with the profile of someone shooting anonymously and presumably running after they've hit a car or a person.

 

[Amonet]

If he was shot in his office, I would agree.

Not just in the office but entering, leaving, or in the car park. JMO. Also outside his house upon coming home or leaving for work. JMO.

I can't see the camping circumstances fitting with that at all. I'd give that low probability.

 

[Tbone144]

Who would carry a shotgun loaded with birdshot? What would its useful range and normal purpose be?

One of the other attacks, on a vehicle, was described by a poster here as being a shotgun slug, not birdshot.

We have no idea what TB was shot with.

To people who know guns, would you likely connect the first two? What would you think about the motivation of the person (and the normal shot potentials) carrying each gun considering what its loaded with at the time?

ETA what I'm gathering so far is that the two incidents I picked out are more likely relatively closer range, but I don't know what the upper and lower limits of that range would be.

It's possible that TB was killed by a handgun or a rifle, possibly a long-distance rifle shot. I would think that would reduce the chance of the TB shooting being connected to the others.

I’m no expert, barely an amateur so this stands to be corrected. You can load both birdshot and deer slugs in the same gun if they are the same gauge. Bird shot would be more effective up close more of a non-lethal round with still potential to do damage. Deer slug is meant to lethal at some distance. Between the two there are different size buckshot. I wouldn’t carry bird shot as a defense round more of a scare things off round which I wouldn’t shoot either. Deer slug I wouldn’t shoot unless I was 100% positive there was a wall or earthen berm behind it.

Not knowing what he was shot with makes it difficult to hazard a guess from where he was shot. If it wasn’t a handgun round it would be fairly close, shotgun a bit further, rifle could be even further (subject to round size and trajectory of course).

 

[Amonet]

Not legal hunting, but just before first light would be the ideal time for a poacher wanting to bag an illegal deer. The animals are out and nobody else is.

Other people who are out at that hour: fisherfolk wanting to get to a favorite spot by sunrise, photographers looking for sunrise photos.

This is very helpful, and it reminds me of something I was thinking with regard to poachers. Wouldn't a poacher want to retrieve his/her kill? Would that not provide limits as to where they're going to aim their shots? I suppose you could technically aim at something 100 yards away and miss and your bullet travels way farther and hits someone.... But that's why the colors on the chart linked to by tbone are important in order to have a rough idea of the energy left in a bullet if it has missed its intended target. I just feel like the tent was the target?

 

[Tbone144]

That's great info, thank you!

Do you have any idea for the colors on the chart which would be the furthest right color to carry enough energy for a killing shot to the head?

Not really, there are so many factors, weight of the grain, etc.. For shotgun pellets the weight of the pellet affects distance, scatter and accuracy. I’ve gleaned a little from my husbands shooting discussions.

If there are really two bullet holes in the tent I would suspect deer slug again or rifle from a distance of 100 yards to possible further if someone thinks they are Rambo in the woods with a sniper rifle.Longest sniper shot is about 2 miles but that’s a level of training i wouldn’t expect random person shooting in the woods to have much less the tactical power to do it with.

A Canadian sniper breaks the record for the longest confirmed kill shot - but how?

Personally with my small rifle I’m good to about 150 yards on the range. I don’t shoot often though and I don’t like shotguns. Boyfriend in High School thought it would be funny to have teenage girl me shoot the 12 gauge. It about took my arm off.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Who would carry a shotgun loaded with birdshot? What would its useful range and normal purpose be?

One of the other attacks, on a vehicle, was described by a poster here as being a shotgun slug, not birdshot.

We have no idea what TB was shot with.

To people who know guns, would you likely connect the first two? What would you think about the motivation of the person (and the normal shot potentials) carrying each gun considering what its loaded with at the time?

ETA what I'm gathering so far is that the two incidents I picked out are more likely relatively closer range, but I don't know what the upper and lower limits of that range would be.

It's possible that TB was killed by a handgun or a rifle, possibly a long-distance rifle shot. I would think that would reduce the chance of the TB shooting being connected to the others.

The purpose of bird shot, when hunting, is to kill small game like birds and squirrels. I don't think somebody would load a shot gun with bird shot if there intentions were to kill a person.

 

[HopefulinGa]

Perhaps. I just find it hard to believe that two stray bullets from a distant poacher or whatever, could directly enter a tent and hit a man in the head, and amazingly both bullets missed the children. If that is what happened, the odds must be astronomical. Although that would be the preferable solution, because otherwise Malibu has a real problem on its hands.

My thoughts were it's not random/stray bullets that hit that tent twice by accident. IMO it's possible the first shot was to get him to sit/stand up and/or to get him to turn on a flashlight/lantern for better visibility. Possibly like others have said by serial shooter in the area or targeted for some other reason we don't know about. His brothers statement in one of the news pieces was he believed it was horizontal shots, so with that in mind it could have been shot further away. Those other shootings could be escalation events leading to this event as others have stated. I'm sceptical of the early reports by LE to where they were saying they aren't related (unless I missed new info because I haven't read back yet). Sorry in advance if I did miss anything new yet. This is one weird, scary situation, and I'm including all the other shootings in that statement. Those poor girls! Just awful for them and his family and loved ones.

 

[carbuff]

This is very helpful, and it reminds me of something I was thinking with regard to poachers. Wouldn't a poacher want to retrieve his/her kill? Would that not provide limits as to where they're going to aim their shots? I suppose you could technically aim at something 100 yards away and miss and your bullet travels way farther and hits someone.... But that's why the colors on the chart linked to by tbone are important in order to have a rough idea of the energy left in a bullet if it has missed its intended target. I just feel like the tent was the target?

If the tent was the target then nothing about poachers is relevant.

 

[Amonet]

The purpose of bird shot, when hunting, is to kill small game like birds and squirrels. I don't think somebody would load a shot gun with bird shot if there intentions were to kill a person.

That was my suspicion, but I needed it confirmed as I admit to being utterly clueless on this topic!

 

[Amonet]

If the tent was the target then nothing about poachers is relevant.

I haven't been feeling poaching for the reason I said, that you'd want to retrieve your kill. But for the clueless among us (me) I think it's worth discussion of everything if only to understand why some things can be ruled out?

 

[Poppyflower]

What if the person shoots for attention- to see which tent will hear it first, put on a light and shoot at that person...like a game?

 

[liz b.]

I’m not positive on his camping spot but the green should be close. Tapia Park appears to be south of the Boys camp. Gonzalez Camp School has a Facebook page that had activity in 2017.

Disgruntled parent, former student? I can’t imagine them allowing firearms on school grounds. My husband suggested they are running contraband through the area to the camp hence the shooting of the biologist, the car shootings to scare people off. I’d like to think the situation is well controlled but now a days who knows.

Green circle is the area for camping where TB was shot. Yellow is the Hindu Temple where the body killed at another location and dumped near. Red is the pull off spot on the road where I thought maybe someone could park for access. Blue is the Boys Camp and Tapia Park is the marker.

Interesting. Could be one or more young guys. It sounds like he/they like to sneak up on people, and shoot them while they are sleeping. Perhaps part of this "game" is to get closer and closer to each victim before shooting them. Has a sick element of a "dare " to it .

 

[Tbone144]

I haven't been feeling poaching for the reason I said, that you'd want to retrieve your kill. But for the clueless among us (me) I think it's worth discussion of everything if only to understand why some things can be ruled out?

I’ll be curious to see how many shots the witnesses heard. If there were three maybe the first two went into the tent and the third into the game. I highly doubt it but it’s a theory

 

[Timekeeper65]

What if the person shoots for attention- to see which tent will hear it first, put on a light and shoot at that person...like a game?

Until LE releases more info - this is as good a guess as anything else brought forth.

This is just plain ole curious. I hope we get some answers. And soon.