The ransom note

[UKGuy]

There are only two people that PR would be willing to write that note for.


Does anyone think Burke Ramsey cannot sleep because he thinks his mother was abusing JonBenet? - UK

Horrific possibility.

Tadpole12,
Horrific possibility, sure but low probability. More so when you analyse the crime-scene Patsy was not staging herself out of a crime, she just dug the forensic hole deeper by moving JonBenet to the basement.

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[UKGuy]

I have heard this stated before by some long-term posters I admire. And I respect your point which I can conceive could be true. But I’ve a few concerns which keep me from embracing that idea as an absolute. I don’t doubt that Patsy physically wrote the RN. However, given the housekeeper LW claimed the verbiage in the RN reflected both of the adult Rs’ speech, I can’t dismiss that JR had a hand in directing some of the material in it.

There are many statistics of women covering for crimes committed by their boyfriends or husbands. Motives vary. As a Southern woman Patsy seemed to be majorly about protecting her family. Whatever it took. If one believes the CBS program, a cover-up might just be for two members of her household.

Ann Rule, crime writer, once had some brief dialog about the R case in a CNN interview. Keep in mind that Rule had long-term relationships with police departments, had spoken to Boulder LE and also had interaction with a few FBI. She was understandably hesitant to discuss the R case. With great reluctance she only commented on it briefly. Like any of us with an opinion, she may not be close to the truth, but here’s what she had to say -

Question: Ann...You will NEVER stop getting asked about the RAMSEY case, because people want to know! And so they ask the best. One more time. What are your thoughts, and did you see/hear anything while in Boulder that changed your way of thinking?
Ann Rule: I think JonBenét was killed by her parents. I suspect the father was molesting her and she threatened to tell. I think her mother helped cover it up. Very sad.
~snip~
Question: The sad thing is that so many crimes like these never reach the courts.
Ann Rule: That's true. There IS such a thing as a perfect murder. Lots of them.
Question: If a person goes berzerk, like J MacDonald...I fail to understand why they do not show remorse...these types of murders seem so spontaneous, why the claim of innocence?
Ann Rule: People without conscience have no remorse. Of all the things I've had to accept in my career, that is still the most difficult!

questfortrue,
Hard to argue with Ann Rule. JDI has to be the default theory particularly with the Grand Jury laying specific counts against each parent.

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[fr brown]

I have heard this stated before by some long-term posters I admire. And I respect your point which I can conceive could be true. But I’ve a few concerns which keep me from embracing that idea as an absolute. I don’t doubt that Patsy physically wrote the RN. However, given the housekeeper LW claimed the verbiage in the RN reflected both of the adult Rs’ speech, I can’t dismiss that JR had a hand in directing some of the material in it.

That's pretty vague. What expressions did she say she recognized?

I have a hard time picturing Ramsey sitting down with his housekeeper for a chin wag. She or some other domestic help said that John didn't talk to Patsy in her presence so there was probably minimal opportunity to witness the Ramseys interacting.

 

[fr brown]

I don’t doubt that Patsy physically wrote the RN. However, given the housekeeper LW claimed the verbiage in the RN reflected both of the adult Rs’ speech, I can’t dismiss that JR had a hand in directing some of the material in it.

Can you direct us to a place where Linda Wilcox talks about the ransom note? I did find a comment by her about how the Ramseys interacted. It's from an interview with Peter Boyles:

"They didn't....They weren't affectionate. They didn't act like a married couple. If I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife."
's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife.

 

[BBB167893]

I fully understand where you are coming from but has anyone thought that maybe Patty was Ambidextrous? They didn’t have her write samples with both hands from what I remember... I may be mistaken but I’m not sure. She was very much into literature and journalism. I’m comparing two people here: one, a friend of mine who’s a journalist and has a major in journalism and minored in literature. She is ambidextrous-however I am the only one who knows that because I lived with her for 4 years in college. It may sound far fetched but it a possibility!

Yes, it has been subsequently established that she was ambidextrous.

 

[BBB167893]

Why would Patsy write a long rambling ransom note. The first thing you would think about in writing a fake note, is that your own handwriting would be sourced for comparison. The longer the note, the more evidence you leave behind. It makes sense that the note would therefore be short and to the point.

I apologize for seeming brusque, grapedrink, but we're long past the point of asking that. She DID write it, so let's focus on that.

 

[BBB167893]

I agree with you BUT what about all the movie quotes?? This requires someone to remember word for word quotes from movies they may have only seen once and how long ago? I'm thinking someone has dictated this note over the phone to Patsy OR ....... someone else in the house wrote a note and Patsy has taken that note and used the quotes from it into an extended version of the ransom note. Maybe that is where she got the whole idea of writing a ransom note in the first place.

One point I'd like to make: The quotes you mention were not exact.

 

[fr brown]

[T]he gist was that I saw an interview with James Fitzgerald, currently being sued by assorted Ramseys. He said he had been consulted on the case in the late 90s. He took credit for noticing references to "Dirty Harry" and "Speed" in the note. He didn't mention "Ruthless People," even though the ransom demand in that movie seems to have served as a template for the RN. He (I think) mentioned that there were movie posters in the house.

(When John Ramsey was asked what his favorite movie was, he said "African Queen," which was on tv the week of the murder.)

African Queen was on the week of the murder, but apparently not in Colorado. It's in the "east of the Mississippi" version of the TV Guide. At the time I looked that up I wasn't aware that there were multiple versions of TV Guide. I believe the one they would have in Colorado is the David Duchovny "eXtremely Cool" version.

I think there are only two TV Guide editions for that week...well, only two covers anyway, which make a complete picture of Duchovny's face when placed side-by-side. Kinda cool.

 

[TeaTime]

BR, by his own statements, put himself downstairs on the first floor of the house after everyone else was asleep (he would pass JBR's room on the way because no sneaky kid is going to use the stairs closest to their parents room) and coincidentally right about the time that JBR died according to a range of estimates. He also put the flashlight in his father's hands, taking him upstairs to his room - by flashlight. It was a gift from BR to JR on some previous occasion. or maybe even a Christmas gift that very year.

And it was the murder weapon.

BR had Hi-Tech boots.

BR's birthday presents were in the wine cellar.

BR's DNA is all over the blood stained, Barbie nightgown found with the body.

BR could be neither included or excluded as a contributor to other DNA samples from the longjohns wastband.

BR was awake during the 911 call, his mother woke him when she ran through his room screaming "where is my baby". He was awake. And he was there when the call started. "We're not talking to you."

By their own admission, his parents NEVER asked him if he heard anything or saw anything. To do so would mean he was awake during the 911 call.

Why was it so important to pretend that he was asleep when they all knew he wasn't?

Why did the GJ indict both parents for allowing a known dangerous condition which resulted in JBR's death and knowing who did it but covering it up?

Why does Dr.Phil use an hour on his show to explain that what we saw and heard, we really didn't see and hear?

 

[UKGuy]

BR, by his own statements, put himself downstairs on the first floor of the house after everyone else was asleep (he would pass JBR's room on the way because no sneaky kid is going to use the stairs closest to their parents room) and coincidentally right about the time that JBR died according to a range of estimates. He also put the flashlight in his father's hands, taking him upstairs to his room - by flashlight. It was a gift from BR to JR on some previous occasion. or maybe even a Christmas gift that very year.

And it was the murder weapon.

BR had Hi-Tech boots.

BR's birthday presents were in the wine cellar.

BR's DNA is all over the blood stained, Barbie nightgown found with the body.

BR could be neither included or excluded as a contributor to other DNA samples from the longjohns wastband.

BR was awake during the 911 call, his mother woke him when she ran through his room screaming "where is my baby". He was awake. And he was there when the call started. "We're not talking to you."

By their own admission, his parents NEVER asked him if he heard anything or saw anything. To do so would mean he was awake during the 911 call.

Why was it so important to pretend that he was asleep when they all knew he wasn't?

Why did the GJ indict both parents for allowing a known dangerous condition which resulted in JBR's death and knowing who did it but covering it up?

Why does Dr.Phil use an hour on his show to explain that what we saw and heard, we really didn't see and hear?

TeaTime,

BR's DNA is all over the blood stained, Barbie nightgown found with the body.

Could be a smoking gun if neither parents dna is on the nightgown !

BR could be neither included or excluded as a contributor to other DNA samples from the longjohns wastband.

You have to assume his dna can be on them by default.

BR was awake during the 911 call, his mother woke him when she ran through his room screaming "where is my baby". He was awake. And he was there when the call started. "We're not talking to you."

By their own admission, his parents NEVER asked him if he heard anything or saw anything. To do so would mean he was awake during the 911 call.

Why was it so important to pretend that he was asleep when they all knew he wasn't?

It was important that he was asleep, just as JonBenet is dead, so he can answer no questions.

If you are partial to BDI just consider, in his book Kolar refers to BR visiting the wine-cellar on Christmas Day Afternoon and partially opening the gifts.

Some might view this as Burke Ramsey covering his tracks by explaining the forensic evidence after the fact, a bit like JR taking responsibility for the flashlight.

So if the flashlight is the murder weapon, why would Burke need it the night JonBenet was killed?

Basically was Burke creeping about the basement solo, or accompanied by JonBenet?

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[TeaTime]

Re: the longjohns DNA on the waistband. Unless BR's DNA was all over those longjohns, the waitsband DNA is incriminating.

 

[Cottonstar]

BR, by his own statements, put himself downstairs on the first floor of the house after everyone else was asleep (he would pass JBR's room on the way because no sneaky kid is going to use the stairs closest to their parents room) and coincidentally right about the time that JBR died according to a range of estimates. He also put the flashlight in his father's hands, taking him upstairs to his room - by flashlight. It was a gift from BR to JR on some previous occasion. or maybe even a Christmas gift that very year.

And it was the murder weapon.

BR had Hi-Tech boots.

BR's birthday presents were in the wine cellar.

BR's DNA is all over the blood stained, Barbie nightgown found with the body.

BR could be neither included or excluded as a contributor to other DNA samples from the longjohns wastband.

BR was awake during the 911 call, his mother woke him when she ran through his room screaming "where is my baby". He was awake. And he was there when the call started. "We're not talking to you."

By their own admission, his parents NEVER asked him if he heard anything or saw anything. To do so would mean he was awake during the 911 call.

Why was it so important to pretend that he was asleep when they all knew he wasn't?

Why did the GJ indict both parents for allowing a known dangerous condition which resulted in JBR's death and knowing who did it but covering it up?

Why does Dr.Phil use an hour on his show to explain that what we saw and heard, we really didn't see and hear?

and there is much much more...

 

[UKGuy]

and there is much much more...

Cottonstar,
Lets hear it all, bring it on ....

Alike Columbo just one last question, if the flashlight is the murder weapon why would JR assume responsibility for it, as per Dr Phil's mouth?

.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

It wasn't Linda Wilcox it the housekeeper Linda H. Pugh that said it. She also said that Patsy asked her advice on sex with John. She has a book you can find online.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,
Lets hear it all, bring it on ....

Alike Columbo just one last question, if the flashlight is the murder weapon why would JR assume responsibility for it, as per Dr Phil's mouth?

.

It’s coming....


Also, i don’t believe the flashlight is the murder weapon.

However, I do believe that it plays a role at the murder scene.

 

[Tadpole12]

Cottonstar,
Lets hear it all, bring it on ....

Alike Columbo just one last question, if the flashlight is the murder weapon why would JR assume responsibility for it, as per Dr Phil's mouth?

.

Could SG clearly see the window of BR's room?

 

[UKGuy]

Could SG clearly see the window of BR's room?

Tadpole12,
I'm not certain. From the statements put up by jameson245 he could see the door down to the basement and lights in the window, just depends where BR's bedroom was wrt to the kitchen, since it was at the opposite end to JonBenet's !

For those interested here are the alleged statements, all posted by jameson245:

Scott Gibbons was the neighbor to the north. He is the man who reported a different light on in the kitchen around midnight that Christmas Day night. He told me personally that the light on was a light Patsy NEVER used, a light located at the ceiling over the sink area.

He said it could NOT have been a flashlight or light from the refrigerator, it was clearly a set of lights above the counter, near the ceiling.

From Steve Thomas' notes printed out 6/23/1997

"Scott Gibbons got up and observed a basement door leading into a kitchenarea was standing wide open."

That would have been the door to the butler's kitchen. Not a basement level door but ground floor. The time has been questioned by some as being too late to be important, police had been all over the house. Scott spoke to me and he did not tell me what time he saw the door open, just said early. Later I found in investigator records that he saw the door at least 1/3 of the way open at 7am.

Some feel Thomas intentionally put in the later time to minimize the importance of the open door. I can only say I interviewed Scott Gibbons and he felt the police didn't follow up on his information so.... I don't know what else to say

On the 27th, police went to the Gibbons house and spoke to Scott and his children. Scott says they spoke to him for maybe a minute and the kids for 2.

They wanted to know if Burke and JonBenet ever seemed afraid of their parents and did the Gibbons family ever feel anything was strange at the Ramsey house. The answer to both questions was NO. Further, they had never seen John or Patsy ever get angry with the children.

A year later, police asked Scott Gibbons about stun guns. Scott knew what they were but he did not own one and didn't know anything about the Ramseys having one.

Just a little story, a true story, that can show the impact of a single statement.

Scott Gibbons knows Fleet White and after the Ramseys had moved from the house, Scott asked Fleet if he might deliver a letter to the Ramseys. Fleet said they had no contact. Fleet's lack of vocal support had Scott briefly questioning his belief in the Ramseys - - but the doubt passed and Scott soon returned to his belief that an intruder killed JonBenet.

And, for the record, he was never asked to speak to the grand jury.

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[UKGuy]

It’s coming....


Also, i don’t believe the flashlight is the murder weapon.

However, I do believe that it plays a role at the murder scene.

Cottonstar,
Sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to reading it. The thing about the flashlight is JR says he took it upstairs to put BR to bed, do not ask why, as they had lights in the house and particularly in BR's bedroom, yet the next day the flashlight was found in the kitchen, so how did it arrive there?

i.e. JR never said, via Dr Phil's lips, that he took the flashlight back downstairs after putting Burke to bed. Yet Burke freely admits he returned downstairs once everyone was in their bedroom, so did he use the flashlight to do so?

I'm guessing the missing link lies in the unaired CBS episode and whatever LW sued CBS to make it all vanish, since from memory JR is getting his rebuttal in first, on the Dr Phil show, prior to the CBS show being broadcast, presumably they were not certain that CBS would abide by the cease and desist request issued by LW, so JR covers the bases by taking responsibility for the flashlight.

JR knew the flashlight was to be flagged up as the murder weapon.

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[AndHence]

Ransom notes just aren't written at crime scenes. The ransom note exists solely because it's the ONLY piece of evidence that even suggests an intruder was there at all; without it, the parents would have been arrested upon the discovery of the body due to probable cause.

 

[GreenOrchard]

Ransom note = distraction ( albeit temporary ) . That's why they weren't arrested . Assuming one (or both) of them is indeed responsible . Sometimes its the very contents of a supposed ransom note that can be rendered as immaterial , especially if the subject of the note isn't alive anymore . I believe wholeheartedly that way too much attention was paid to the note , and too little attention to the domestic situation .