GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

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Welll, there are some that are no longer posting here that believe it's just that...….but so far there are not others like this, in the area anyway, but in that conclusion of the Sworn Podcast, hocky posted upthread, PH seems to think the killer is on the loose on the lake at GW! The PC officer told me once "they are long gone, back up north"...….but there are cult members still in the area

So the mention of CHarles Manson, wasn't that a CULT? and if you've been here long enough you know what Foxfire was adamant about

Unless it is family related, we will likely never know tho crimes are solved years down the road but that's usually from dna testing that wasn't available back then or someones investigative hound dog attitude weeded them out...….Hopefully time will relax someone a bit to talk, but now there is no more reward money, it was all refunded...…….WTH

If this was a "Charles Manson" type of crime, then there is no rhyme or reason, only drug infested and evil perpetrators who acted upon a mere chance meeting (unplanned). The "why" never understood, and this makes the "who" almost impossible to ascertain, I would think. She was found fully clothed, and even her shoes were still on and tied. He, on the other hand, was found dressed in night clothes (house slippers and his robe close by, I believe).

I can't imagine taking the two of them out on the lake, tying her up and weighting her down, beating her and then throwing her overboard. Then, possibly shooting him, removing his head, throwing it overboard and taking him back to the garage. I would think there would be some evidence from that boat on his body or clothes. And the towels, don't forget the towels which were placed like a dam to keep the blood from oozing under the garage door...where did they come from (one would think from inside the home)?

But, anything is possible.
 
So because there is no gunshot splatter from a gunshot to the head, they think he was murdered elsewhere...…...but how far does that really have to be? Couldn't it be outside in their yard? They have no neighbors, the ones they do have were in Asia...….that's very coincidental! Or not.....silencers exist and a gunshot near the lake is nothing unusual, snakes abound

With Her hair in his hand and his hands all bruised, the precious man fought like hell to save his bride......this is so horrible to imagine...…..but it tells me they were taking HER away, would he have still had that hair in his hand if he'd been hauled back from some distance, othr location? Its appears he died as soon as she was wrenched from his hands

One of the most vexing aspects of this double murder - - and there are numerous - - is exactly where these two were murdered. We can say with a reasonable degree of certainty Mrs. D was murdered on the boat. What if both Dermonds were on the boat ? As with most of my theories this, too, is a stretch but there is no known place of murder for Mr. D. The boat as the scene of the double murder makes some sense. Recall, we know each Dermond was dead before the final disposition of each body ( decapitation and water immersion ).
 
One thing is certain, RD was beheaded IN the garage but there is confusion on where exactly he died, but IM like you, that's a whole lotta traipsing around if they didn't wanna get caught...I cant fathom them hauling them both off then bringing them back and then hauling her off again...…..like a scene from the Apple Dumpling Gang!!
If this was a "Charles Manson" type of crime, then there is no rhyme or reason, only drug infested and evil perpetrators who acted upon a mere chance meeting (unplanned). The "why" never understood, and this makes the "who" almost impossible to ascertain, I would think. She was found fully clothed, and even her shoes were still on and tied. He, on the other hand, was found dressed in night clothes (house slippers and his robe close by, I believe).

I can't imagine taking the two of them out on the lake, tying her up and weighting her down, beating her and then throwing her overboard. Then, possibly shooting him, removing his head, throwing it overboard and taking him back to the garage. I would think there would be some evidence from that boat on his body or clothes. And the towels, don't forget the towels which were placed like a dam to keep the blood from oozing under the garage door...where did they come from (one would think from inside the home)?

But, anything is possible.
 
Unless they were in a very small jon boat and they needed room for 5 of them, I think they had room.... because they wont likely take a small jon boat that far and back again IMO...IF they came with cinder blocks and mesh bag and rope, they were prepared, if they didn't go inside, they came with a sharp enough knife too, the came prepared and since they likely came and went by boat, they were prepared there too...…..and apparently they seemed to have had all day since no one saw anyone carrying a body or an old lady with tape on her mouth being escorted by 2 big men down river...…..it all had to be before sunrise and after sunset IMO
I should have read a little farther before I posted my comments, dancing, lol.
I wanted to add one thing: I thought to myself long ago that perhaps a reason Mr. D was left behind ( most of him, anyway) and only Mrs. D. was taken could possibly have to do with how much room there was in whatever boat they had, what it's weight capacity was, and how much time did the killers actually have? They very obviously did some thinking after the fact. I'm not at all sure the beheading was planned in advance, though it's always a possibility.
 
Unless they were in a very small jon boat and they needed room for 5 of them, I think they had room.... because they wont likely take a small jon boat that far and back again IMO...IF they came with cinder blocks and mesh bag and rope, they were prepared, if they didn't go inside, they came with a sharp enough knife too, the came prepared and since they likely came and went by boat, they were prepared there too...…..and apparently they seemed to have had all day since no one saw anyone carrying a body or an old lady with tape on her mouth being escorted by 2 big men down river...…..it all had to be before sunrise and after sunset IMO

And, brought their own towels (if they didn't enter the house). Some of the items, I suppose, could have been located inside the garage as the Ds had previously owned a boat. I never saw any mention of her mouth/eyes being taped (or any tape located on his or her body?
 
Yes I am torn on the towel thing, towels can have hairs and other fibers on them relating to the killers...…….but going inside, it doesn't APPEAR happened, their boat was sold a while back, if anyone remembers, please chime, in Im thinking atleast a year......yes WHERE did the towels come from...…...ironic you mentioned the tape, I was thinking about that yesterday, they were not bound in any way...….Would this suggest it was pretty quick assassination? I would think so, no need to bind them to shut them up....Good point Kirkassoc…….

My current thoughts are that her body was hauled away to confuse investigation....beheading could have even been for those reasons...….or as others have mentioned to hide evidence of gunshot...…apparently they were killed pretty quickly, not bound in any way other than SD being anchored with blocks rope and mesh bag (still don't understand this, laundry or dunk bag for camping had to be pretty big to hold 2 blocks and who carries those around, surely not something purchased... as fish net would have been sturdier IMO, not cloth to tear)…..had pondered if they had time to haul RD body away but apparently they were trying to separate them anyway due to her hair being found in his hand and his bruised hand or hands, with blood on them...….

Why did they want them separated? If an assassination theyd have left them both on scene shot to death most likely

If you really really are afraid of being caught, why not just shoot them and leave as if it was an assassination by a hitman or mob

Beheadings typically imply mob or cult like behavior.....and we all know of FF theory

SS said for every one thing that appears professional, there is something equal in amateur behavior

I don't think an expert would go to the trouble to do all this, just shoot them and leave

SO IMO at this time is that it IS an AMATEUR trying to confuse the investigation so they wont be caught

Still gotta ask, WHY and WHO GAINED from their deaths

Don't watch only what people SAY but what they DO and how they react
And, brought their own towels (if they didn't enter the house). Some of the items, I suppose, could have been located inside the garage as the Ds had previously owned a boat. I never saw any mention of her mouth/eyes being taped (or any tape located on his or her body?
 
Hmm, just posted before this but reading your comments makes me think again.....yeah they went to alooot of trouble...…...to prevent being caught....who would care that much about being discovered? That's a lot of thought and planning in this too...….who would go to that much trouble to prevent being discovered??

Somebody upstanding who could not afford to be discovered...……..so Amateur who gained

A hit man isn't going to go to that much trouble, think about the time it took.....................SOMEBODY CARED TOO MUCH ABOUT BEING DISCOVERED AND DIDNT WANT TO BE FOUND OUT
For sure! I suppose the simplest explanation is that Mr.D's head was taken to dispose of evidence ( a bullet, most likely) and Mrs. D was also bound to blocks and put in the lake for the very same reason. These things have been discussed here. Perhaps the killers' thinking that being in the water would wash away any forensic evidence such as hairs or DNA. So why one earth wouldn't they have put both bodies in the lake?

Or, why on earth would they risk taking that great effort to take Mrs. D with them? Is it known for certainty that Mrs. D. was killed at the same time Mr. D. was, or can that even be known? Would if have been possible for the killers to take her, alive, from the house and into a vehicle and killing her a bit later, for whatever reason? If that's been discussed or ruled out by the sheriff or anyone else, I'm not aware of it but please let me know :)
 
I don't know about FF theory? I have heard of him from being on WS for quite a while. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with his investigations.
 
This is not something I came up with but another sleuther. He/she wondered if perhaps Mr. D. was in rigor mortis and couldn't be fit into a trunk or a boat and had to be left behind.
 
Ok lets do away with 1 theory. This was not a mob hit. A hitman wouldn't care about a bullet being discovered because he would be using a clean gun.
Lets do away with another theory. This was not a serial killer because a serial killer has patterns and there hasn't been anything even close to this before or after.
Let's also do away with the random extortion/robbery gone bad theory because as we know this was well planned. The killers brought the tools to do what they set out to do. Yes they slipped up and I think it was something even a professional could get wrong . SS mentioned a bag of some sort being around the blocks and I really think this bag is what helped Mrs Dermond float up .

My take on this is this was done by someone who knew them well, someone who knew the community well and had a major beef with the Dermonds. Since the alarm wasn't activated that day along with the camera in the guard shack being out and the nearest neighbor being away in Asia i'd definitely say this was someone who knew both the D's and the lake area VERY well. Keep in mind this could have been done in less than an hour being that it was planned and this was definitely planned. So I don't think they were there very long as this would risk dropping evidence the longer they stayed the more risk they exposed themselves to.

All the stars aligned perfectly so the chances of this being random is like the chances of throwing a puzzle box in the air and when it lands the puzzle is completed as it hits the floor
 
Ok lets do away with 1 theory. This was not a mob hit. A hitman wouldn't care about a bullet being discovered because he would be using a clean gun.
Lets do away with another theory. This was not a serial killer because a serial killer has patterns and there hasn't been anything even close to this before or after.
Let's also do away with the random extortion/robbery gone bad theory because as we know this was well planned. The killers brought the tools to do what they set out to do. Yes they slipped up and I think it was something even a professional could get wrong . SS mentioned a bag of some sort being around the blocks and I really think this bag is what helped Mrs Dermond float up .

My take on this is this was done by someone who knew them well, someone who knew the community well and had a major beef with the Dermonds. Since the alarm wasn't activated that day along with the camera in the guard shack being out and the nearest neighbor being away in Asia i'd definitely say this was someone who knew both the D's and the lake area VERY well. Keep in mind this could have been done in less than an hour being that it was planned and this was definitely planned. So I don't think they were there very long as this would risk dropping evidence the longer they stayed the more risk they exposed themselves to.

All the stars aligned perfectly so the chances of this being random is like the chances of throwing a puzzle box in the air and when it lands the puzzle is completed as it hits the floor

We don't know for certain that Mr.D's head was taken because he was shot in the head.

And if it was so well planned, why shoot him in the head only to have to go to all the trouble of removing his head and then disposing of it at some point.

If the perps brought the right tools to take his head, it sounds like they were anticipating doing this anyway.

I believe Mrs. D was struck over the head and died from that injury before being put into the water. And why go to all the trouble of hiding her in the water unless they were hoping to cause delay and or confusion. It sounds like a lot of trouble and skill needed to pull all of the above off.
 
Good point about that time, I keep circling like a vulture, but you are right for sure, this was PLANNED......SOOO much going on, this was not random......they did seem to go to a LOT of trouble not to be caught sooo……...who would care that much about being caught?

Interesting you say it didn't take long HOckeyguy…..do you mean the whole thing or just the beheading? There was definitely GSR on his collar, albiet, not much but a gun was involved SOMEHOW, maybe a warning shot, maybe he was shot in the head, I never really bought that theory tho, that it was to hide evidence, yeah you know, they weren't prepared if that happened
Could it be someone got carried away in the heat of the whole ordeal, landing a shot to his head? Someone known to the D's and who might be questioned just because they knew them and lived in the area, might be greatly afraid of that find......who knows

They could have beheaded him and then left with her...…...that means they just wanted her out of there for confusion, nothing to gain at that point

I just hope she didn't see it all

Here is an interesting incident in AL I never heard of, apparently this occurred in June I think...…….
Investigator: Girl was beheaded after seeing grandmother die
BUt it was Cartel...……….but was the grandmother buying drugs??I don't know the whole story yet, beheaded the granddaughter after they killed the grandmother


I don't know about FF theory? I have heard of him from being on WS for quite a while. Unfortunately, I am ulitnfamiliar with his investigations.
Ok lets do away with 1 theory. This was not a mob hit. A hitman wouldn't care about a bullet being discovered because he would be using a clean gun.
Lets do away with another theory. This was not a serial killer because a serial killer has patterns and there hasn't been anything even close to this before or after.
Let's also do away with the random extortion/robbery gone bad theory because as we know this was well planned. The killers brought the tools to do what they set out to do. Yes they slipped up and I think it was something even a professional could get wrong . SS mentioned a bag of some sort being around the blocks and I really think this bag is what helped Mrs Dermond float up .

My take on this is this was done by someone who knew them well, someone who knew the community well and had a major beef with the Dermonds. Since the alarm wasn't activated that day along with the camera in the guard shack being out and the nearest neighbor being away in Asia i'd definitely say this was someone who knew both the D's and the lake area VERY well. Keep in mind this could have been done in less than an hour being that it was planned and this was definitely planned. So I don't think they were there very long as this would risk dropping evidence the longer they stayed the more risk they exposed themselves to.

All the stars aligned perfectly so the chances of this being random is like the chances of throwing a puzzle box in the air and when it lands the puzzle is completed as it hits the floor
 
If there was a gunshot to the head, would it be easier to take the head instead of digging the bullet out? I guess it may depend on calibre and location of the bullet. But dang.

The fact his head hasn't been found leads me to think that the perps were very careful with disposing of the head. Nothing like having it reappear with a bullet lodged in the head. Or, before disposing of the head, did they take the bullet out somewhere, somehow?
 
If there was a gunshot to the head, would it be easier to take the head instead of digging the bullet out? I guess it may depend on calibre and location of the bullet. But dang.

The fact his head hasn't been found leads me to think that the perps were very careful with disposing of the head. Nothing like having it reappear with a bullet lodged in the head. Or, before disposing of the head, did they take the bullet out somewhere, somehow?

If they disposed of the head in the lake, would it float? I would think that a head might not float?
 
If they disposed of the head in the lake, would it float? I would think that a head might not float?
Heavier, no gasses build up like the body, not sure...….but they did send sonar under the lake where MRS D was found but that's muddy water down here in GA, not sure if Oconnee was as muddy but Sinclair is clearer since the coal plant shut down, it used to push and pull the water a lot.

but mostly bone, I always thought it would stay sunk

THat head is likely in another state or buried in ga in totally different location

HEY, that's it, they couldn't haul off the body to bury it so easily so THEY TOOK THE HEAD AND BURIED IT!!!!!!!!

OH WOW I wonder!
 
If there was a gunshot to the head, would it be easier to take the head instead of digging the bullet out? I guess it may depend on calibre and location of the bullet. But dang.

The fact his head hasn't been found leads me to think that the perps were very careful with disposing of the head. Nothing like having it reappear with a bullet lodged in the head. Or, before disposing of the head, did they take the bullet out somewhere, somehow?
haha, I don't know which is easier Razz....I understand it to be fairly easy to behead, the spinal portion and cartiledge is all that's there that is difficult if at all, not like a leg bone or something I guess??

BUt digging in a skull for a bullet lodged? GOtt cut thru skill bone

Hmmm,,,,,,,,im thinking they took it away to bury it, hahaha, im not laughing at this situation, laughing because I am certain that's what happened now! we were all so focused on cutting off the head but the real focus is where is it...……..BURIED!
 
WOW...….I don't know...…….too close for comfort ya'll

was a family member involved with cartel and they killed the D's? IDK

These guys came from Madison Co, AL to Norcross GA...Cartel thought the grandmother was a nark ?? THough she was personally involved somehow as delivery person...…..WTH, don't these people watch the movies and the outcomes of these things!??!!


13-year-old girl beheaded after seeing grandmother killed in Alabama cemetery

from Norcross to Carolyn Dr Map 6 hours
Maps

from Madison co AL to Putnam is 5 hours roughly


Good point about that time, I keep circling like a vulture, but you are right for sure, this was PLANNED......SOOO much going on, this was not random......they did seem to go to a LOT of trouble not to be caught sooo……...who would care that much about being caught?

Interesting you say it didn't take long HOckeyguy…..do you mean the whole thing or just the beheading? There was definitely GSR on his collar, albiet, not much but a gun was involved SOMEHOW, maybe a warning shot, maybe he was shot in the head, I never really bought that theory tho, that it was to hide evidence, yeah you know, they weren't prepared if that happened
Could it be someone got carried away in the heat of the whole ordeal, landing a shot to his head? Someone known to the D's and who might be questioned just because they knew them and lived in the area, might be greatly afraid of that find......who knows

They could have beheaded him and then left with her...…...that means they just wanted her out of there for confusion, nothing to gain at that point

I just hope she didn't see it all

Here is an interesting incident in AL I never heard of, apparently this occurred in June I think...…….
Investigator: Girl was beheaded after seeing grandmother die
BUt it was Cartel...……….but was the grandmother buying drugs??I don't know the whole story yet, beheaded the granddaughter after they killed the grandmother
 
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Just throwing something out here. A few years ago, I was on my sunporch and could see the back entrance (sliding back door) of our home. There stood a man, peering in and I yelled at him. He said he was driving by and noticed some trees in back of our house that needed trimming/cutting. Startled me. I told him no. He went away. But, made me think of the Ds and who might have approached them, the many trees on their property and the tools they might have had with them. Food for thought.
 
Yeah I ve had scary moments too, I had a place on the lake, the last year I had it we kept getting broken into or attemps at it, we had lots of trees, no neighbors but for a few doors down, all around us were vacation homes, except across the street, for the trees tho it was well hidden even tho on a thoroughfare rd

I still don't think it was random like that, but we don't know so ……….we don't know...….just seems like more work for someone just passing thru
Just throwing something out here. A few years ago, I was on my sunporch and could see the back entrance (sliding back door) of our home. There stood a man, peering in and I yelled at him. He said he was driving by and noticed some trees in back of our house that needed trimming/cutting. Startled me. I told him no. He went away. But, made me think of the Ds and who might have approached them, the many trees on their property and the tools they might have had with them. Food for thought.
 
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