UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[Betty P]

How many miles is it to Alaska?

Or to California, or the Mexican border?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

How many miles is it to Alaska?

4,000. One way. But someone would literally have to drive 24/7 and make 3 round trips in 12 days (I think that was the time lapse documented) .

Even for someone doing meth and zoooooomin, it seems next to impossible. I’m not saying there’s any meth association, but when I worked in transportation I heard many stories about truckers and meth because they had to get where they were going. Just saying that even wondering if someone on meth could drive that much in such a short time frame still makes me believe it’s close to impossible.

Also, I can’t figure out how to do multiquote, so Betty, it would be more round trips to the Mexico border or Cali. Cali is about 2,000 miles give or take. Texas/Mexico borders is about 1400-1800 depending where on the border.

 

[rsd1200]

4,000. One way. But someone would literally have to drive 24/7 and make 3 round trips in 12 days (I think that was the time lapse documented) .

Even for someone doing meth and zoooooomin, it seems next to impossible. I’m not saying there’s any meth association, but when I worked in transportation I heard many stories about truckers and meth because they had to get where they were going. Just saying that even wondering if someone on meth could drive that much in such a short time frame still makes me believe it’s close to impossible.

Also, I can’t figure out how to do multiquote, so Betty, it would be more round trips to the Mexico border or Cali. Cali is about 2,000 miles give or take. Texas/Mexico borders is about 1400-1800 depending where on the border.

I think that the mileage got screwed up on the 8/28/2015 transfer. One would have to drive 80 mph non-stop to put that kind of miles on a vehicle, for all 12 days they had it in their possession. I think all of the 2015 title work was clearing up some titling mistakes. The truck may not have been sitting between Sept 2013, and Aug 2015 titles. Someone may have been using it, either with the knowledge of the owner, or without.

2013

• 9/16/2013 - Title transfer on red truck - mileage reported as 197,682

2015

• 8/28/2015 - unknown title change - mileage reported as 197,682

• 9/9/2015 - Title change (?) owner - mileage reported as 220,000

• 10/1/2015 - Pamela Franklin's name appears on the title of the red truck - mileage reported as 220,000
  
  
• That's 34 days and could be doable at 65 mph, driving 10 hour days, especially with two drivers.

Also, we don't know, that that truck, hasn't had a tracker put on it during the time that JB had it in his possession. If so, he apparently didn't have a need to crawl up underneath the truck, and, he only drove the truck 5,202 miles in the 53 weeks he had it, prior to signing it over to AM.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think that the mileage got screwed up on the 8/28/2015 transfer. One would have to drive 80 mph non-stop to put that kind of miles on a vehicle, for all 12 days they had it in their possession. I think all of the 2015 title work was clearing up some titling mistakes. The truck may not have been sitting between Sept 2013, and Aug 2015 titles. Someone may have been using it, either with the knowledge of the owner, or without.

2013

• 9/16/2013 - Title transfer on red truck - mileage reported as 197,682

2015

• 8/28/2015 - unknown title change - mileage reported as 197,682

• 9/9/2015 - Title change (?) owner - mileage reported as 220,000

• 10/1/2015 - Pamela Franklin's name appears on the title of the red truck - mileage reported as 220,000
  
  
• That's 34 days and could be doable at 65 mph, driving 10 hour days, especially with two drivers.

Also, we don't know, that that truck, hasn't had a tracker put on it during the time that JB had it in his possession. If so, he apparently didn't have a need to crawl up underneath the truck, and, he only drove the truck 5,202 miles in the 53 weeks he had it, prior to signing it over to AM.

Great points. I’ve also considered that this truck may have ended up with a salvaged title. I think it’s a fair theory to idealize that perhaps this infamous red truck was maybe purchased at an auto auction a couple years earlier, repaired, and sold. Maybe there was some odomoter rolling going on at sometime as well. I know people wouldn’t roll the miles forward for resale value, but perhaps someone who had lots of dealings with salvaged vehicles aka Chris Sr. rolled the miles forward for a purpose. It’s hard to say and it’s only one of my thoughts about that red truck.

Also, I wonder if the salvaged vehicles was part of (not all) the business dealings between the W’s and the R’s.

Another thing I’ve considered with the truck being of interest is video footage. Hypothetically of course because we don’t know very many facts about this truck. But maybe there was video footage somewhere that picked up a red truck the night of the murders. That wouldn’t mean it was that red truck. But just a red truck. And then 11 months later, JM/AM acquire a red truck and put it in their names . It could be two completely separate red trucks. One seen on camera and one JM just happened to end up getting that was similar to what LE had on their radar.

Quite honestly, JM would have been completely ignorant to own and drive a vehicle that LE believe was associated with the murders of his families. I can’t imagine that he had anything to do with his family’s murders and if I’m wrong, I’d be surprised to find out that he would be dumb enough to drive evidence around. I don’t think the man lacks common sense and whoever committed these murders didn’t lack common sense either. Common sense would say if you’re involved in the murders of 8 people and have gone unnoticed this long, you’re not gonna draw attention to yourself with a vehicle of interest.

All just theory and JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think that the mileage got screwed up on the 8/28/2015 transfer. One would have to drive 80 mph non-stop to put that kind of miles on a vehicle, for all 12 days they had it in their possession. I think all of the 2015 title work was clearing up some titling mistakes. The truck may not have been sitting between Sept 2013, and Aug 2015 titles. Someone may have been using it, either with the knowledge of the owner, or without.

2013

• 9/16/2013 - Title transfer on red truck - mileage reported as 197,682

2015

• 8/28/2015 - unknown title change - mileage reported as 197,682

• 9/9/2015 - Title change (?) owner - mileage reported as 220,000

• 10/1/2015 - Pamela Franklin's name appears on the title of the red truck - mileage reported as 220,000
  
  
• That's 34 days and could be doable at 65 mph, driving 10 hour days, especially with two drivers.

Also, we don't know, that that truck, hasn't had a tracker put on it during the time that JB had it in his possession. If so, he apparently didn't have a need to crawl up underneath the truck, and, he only drove the truck 5,202 miles in the 53 weeks he had it, prior to signing it over to AM.

Also, it looks like that truck sat for 2 years between 9/2013 and 8/2015.

What happens to make a vehicle sit for 2 years? Is it possible CR1 acquired that truck in 8/2015 from an auction? Maybe he acquired it on 8/28/2015, filed a salvaged title to sell it on 9/9/15 and Pamela brooks bought it on 10/1/15.

34 days is from 8/28/15-10/1/15. Yes that’s doable. However the 22,000 mile increase occurred between 8/28/15 and 9/9/15, which is 12 days. From 9/9/2015-10/1/15 the mileage did not change thus no movement on the vehicle during that 3 week time frame.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

How many miles is it to Alaska?

I have driven it. From central Michigan to Kenai Alaska it was just under 4,500 miles. I’ll never forget every mile.

My dad drive most of it. We were in a truck, camper and trailer with 2 kids and 1 dog. It took us 8 days. We pushed. We’re stopped 3 nights for repairs but it was a steady push North.

No stops for anything but repairs, to buy food and to sleep. My dad was a truck driver and did an amazing job getting us up there safe. He just kept questioning my sanity of moving up there. Before he flew back to Michigan, he handed me an envelope with cash for airfare back. I kept it for 2 years and still have a good share if it 35 years afterward. I retired to the desert after 8 back surgeries and a spine with arthritis.

My husband had driven up 3 months before us to get settled in a new job and to find a place for our family to live. The first week after we had arrived I remember two incidents.

First the police department were in front of our house. A sow bear had gone up a big spruce tree and her twin cubs had followed her up. She came down but the twins were to scared to do so. Fish and wildlife officers had to tranquilizer them and catch them at the base if the tree with my husbands hammock.

A few days later 10 miles north, in Nikiski, 2 old homesteaders met up accidentally and got out of their brand new trucks to fight. Fight they did but instead of shooting each other they shot the _______ out of the new trucks they were driving. It was all but over by the time the Alaska State Troopers arrived.

I realized then I was a woman truly in the last frontier.


Back to the drive we went thru the upper peninsula Minnesota, tornados in Saskatoon and drove as hard as possible.

It turned out to be the best decision of my life. No gangs, few drugs and taught our family the meaning of good friendships, survivingand that hard work pays off.

I could sit here and write our experiences for the next month but that’s not why we are here.

Alaska’s a great place to raise a family, work hard and make very good money and give kids an important work ethic. And now my grandchildren are working the same way. I had to retire and get out if the cold.

We both had good jobs and bought a commercial fishing boat and since 1991 have fished salmon in Cook Inlet.

Yes we had some very difficult times, but we persevered. There are few regrets, overall it was the very best choice we could have made. I appreciate every thing living in Alaska taught us. You can’t buy or imagine the life experiences we hadas a family. It made my children strong successful adults and our family an independent cohesive group and the best I could have hoped for as good people. (With normal flaws).

 

[Dudly]

I think that the mileage got screwed up on the 8/28/2015 transfer. One would have to drive 80 mph non-stop to put that kind of miles on a vehicle, for all 12 days they had it in their possession. I think all of the 2015 title work was clearing up some titling mistakes. The truck may not have been sitting between Sept 2013, and Aug 2015 titles. Someone may have been using it, either with the knowledge of the owner, or without.

2013

• 9/16/2013 - Title transfer on red truck - mileage reported as 197,682

2015

• 8/28/2015 - unknown title change - mileage reported as 197,682

• 9/9/2015 - Title change (?) owner - mileage reported as 220,000

• 10/1/2015 - Pamela Franklin's name appears on the title of the red truck - mileage reported as 220,000
  
  
• That's 34 days and could be doable at 65 mph, driving 10 hour days, especially with two drivers.

Also, we don't know, that that truck, hasn't had a tracker put on it during the time that JB had it in his possession. If so, he apparently didn't have a need to crawl up underneath the truck, and, he only drove the truck 5,202 miles in the 53 weeks he had it, prior to signing it over to AM.

I have known people who put their plates on a vehicle and drove them for a year without getting the title put in their name and getting the plates transferred. This could easily be the case.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I have known people who put their plates on a vehicle and drove them for a year without getting the title put in their name and getting the plates transferred. This could easily be the case.

Could be. I’ve been driving since I was 8
Sat on Montgomery Wards Catalogs down backroads with my Grandpa just looking at other farmers crops. It still happens in rural areas. Sometimes driving fish to the cannery there’s no plate at all. No one ever stopped us because everybody did it and it was a livelihood.

 

[rsd1200]

Great points. I’ve also considered that this truck may have ended up with a salvaged title. I think it’s a fair theory to idealize that perhaps this infamous red truck was maybe purchased at an auto auction a couple years earlier, repaired, and sold. Maybe there was some odomoter rolling going on at sometime as well. I know people wouldn’t roll the miles forward for resale value, but perhaps someone who had lots of dealings with salvaged vehicles aka Chris Sr. rolled the miles forward for a purpose. It’s hard to say and it’s only one of my thoughts about that red truck.

Also, I wonder if the salvaged vehicles was part of (not all) the business dealings between the W’s and the R’s.

Another thing I’ve considered with the truck being of interest is video footage. Hypothetically of course because we don’t know very many facts about this truck. But maybe there was video footage somewhere that picked up a red truck the night of the murders. That wouldn’t mean it was that red truck. But just a red truck. And then 11 months later, JM/AM acquire a red truck and put it in their names . It could be two completely separate red trucks. One seen on camera and one JM just happened to end up getting that was similar to what LE had on their radar.

Quite honestly, JM would have been completely ignorant to own and drive a vehicle that LE believe was associated with the murders of his families. I can’t imagine that he had anything to do with his family’s murders and if I’m wrong, I’d be surprised to find out that he would be dumb enough to drive evidence around. I don’t think the man lacks common sense and whoever committed these murders didn’t lack common sense either. Common sense would say if you’re involved in the murders of 8 people and have gone unnoticed this long, you’re not gonna draw attention to yourself with a vehicle of interest.

All just theory and JMO.

If it belonged to the Josh that I think that it did, then I 'd not doubt that he used it during the commission of some sort of crime. I'm not calling the Josh dude a murderer, but that truck, may very well have been spotted, out and about, in the area that night, thereby making it a suspicious vehicle.

I think that if the vehicle has been salvaged, it will have "salvage title" on there when you run the title search, after you rebuild, you would see a Rebuild Title. It's a big deal about letting folks know about a vehicle having a salvage title. It's more to it to salvage and get a rebuild license than folks would think, too. Been there.

Ohio Salvaged Vehicle Regulations | DMV.ORG

FWIW, I do get the feeling that the previous owner of the vehicle may have known the Rs and/or Ms.

 

[rsd1200]

Also, it looks like that truck sat for 2 years between 9/2013 and 8/2015.

What happens to make a vehicle sit for 2 years? Is it possible CR1 acquired that truck in 8/2015 from an auction? Maybe he acquired it on 8/28/2015, filed a salvaged title to sell it on 9/9/15 and Pamela brooks bought it on 10/1/15.

34 days is from 8/28/15-10/1/15. Yes that’s doable. However the 22,000 mile increase occurred between 8/28/15 and 9/9/15, which is 12 days. From 9/9/2015-10/1/15 the mileage did not change thus no movement on the vehicle during that 3 week time frame.

It may not have sat. That may be the error on the title that I was talking about with reference to the mileage.

 

[rsd1200]

I have known people who put their plates on a vehicle and drove them for a year without getting the title put in their name and getting the plates transferred. This could easily be the case.

Folks who sell vehicles but aren't really "licensed" to do so, will sometimes do that with buyers. They will keep the vehicle in their name, and let the buyer drive it, and make payments. When the vehicle is payed off, or a certain amount is payed off, they will transfer it then. Sometimes the seller loses money and a vehicle but many times it works out for both parties or the seller wouldn't offer such deals.

 

[Dudly]

Folks who sell vehicles but aren't really "licensed" to do so, will sometimes do that with buyers. They will keep the vehicle in their name, and let the buyer drive it, and make payments. When the vehicle is payed off, or a certain amount is payed off, they will transfer it then. Sometimes the seller loses money and a vehicle but many times it works out for both parties or the seller wouldn't offer such deals.

That happens a lot selling to relatives or close friends....

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have known people who put their plates on a vehicle and drove them for a year without getting the title put in their name and getting the plates transferred. This could easily be the case.

Me too. My ex husband was and is still notorious for doing stuff like that. If he bought a car, he’d have the seller leave the purchase date blank on the title. He would keep the title in the vehicle in case he got pulled over and said he’d use the excuse that he just bought the vehicle that same day, thus the reason for no tags.

I don’t know if that matters or not because I’ve always titled and plated my cars immediately. But some people fly by the seat of their pants.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Here’s the truck info again just so it’s fresh in this thread.

Dropbox - 1GCGK24R1VZ224622-Report.pdf

 

[rsd1200]

Here’s the truck info again just so it’s fresh in this thread.

Dropbox - 1GCGK24R1VZ224622-Report.pdf

No junk or salvage records were found. I bet they let someone drive it, between 9/16/2013 & 8/28/2015, then later titled it over, but didn't update the odometer reading, and had to correct the title, and possibly remove a lien holder, which might explain the other two title change dates in 2015.

 

[Betty P]

Here’s the truck info again just so it’s fresh in this thread.

Dropbox - 1GCGK24R1VZ224622-Report.pdf

So, was the person who owned the car when it was somehow involved in the Rhoden murders ever questioned? Why did they decide to sell it to James Manley and who told PCSO that the sale had occurred?

Why did PCSO put a GPS tracker on the red truck during the anniversary memorial for the Rhoden/Gilley family members, while family was in the church? Why would PCSO attempt to track James Manley when they already knew someone else owned and drove the suspect red truck the night of the murders?

JMO, someone at PCSO was trying to frame JM for the murders.

All of this was done as they were allowing the Wags family to move to Alaska with S, even though PCSO had "laser focus" on them.

One incident you'll notice when watching the Gone: Missing Women of Ohio documentary is that there was an instance when LE decided to unfairly punish one of their women informants by having a judge unjustly take away the woman's children. Family courts work with LE down there to punish innocent women.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have driven it. From central Michigan to Kenai Alaska it was just under 4,500 miles. I’ll never forget every mile.

My dad drive most of it. We were in a truck, camper and trailer with 2 kids and 1 dog. It took us 8 days. We pushed. We’re stopped 3 nights for repairs but it was a steady push North.

No stops for anything but repairs, to buy food and to sleep. My dad was a truck driver and did an amazing job getting us up there safe. He just kept questioning my sanity of moving up there. Before he flew back to Michigan, he handed me an envelope with cash for airfare back. I kept it for 2 years and still have a good share if it 35 years afterward. I retired to the desert after 8 back surgeries and a spine with arthritis.

My husband had driven up 3 months before us to get settled in a new job and to find a place for our family to live. The first week after we had arrived I remember two incidents.

First the police department were in front of our house. A sow bear had gone up a big spruce tree and her twin cubs had followed her up. She came down but the twins were to scared to do so. Fish and wildlife officers had to tranquilizer them and catch them at the base if the tree with my husbands hammock.

A few days later 10 miles north, in Nikiski, 2 old homesteaders met up accidentally and got out of their brand new trucks to fight. Fight they did but instead of shooting each other they shot the _______ out of the new trucks they were driving. It was all but over by the time the Alaska State Troopers arrived.

I realized then I was a woman truly in the last frontier.


Back to the drive we went thru the upper peninsula Minnesota, tornados in Saskatoon and drove as hard as possible.

It turned out to be the best decision of my life. No gangs, few drugs and taught our family the meaning of good friendships, survivingand that hard work pays off.

I could sit here and write our experiences for the next month but that’s not why we are here.

Alaska’s a great place to raise a family, work hard and make very good money and give kids an important work ethic. And now my grandchildren are working the same way. I had to retire and get out if the cold.

We both had good jobs and bought a commercial fishing boat and since 1991 have fished salmon in Cook Inlet.

Yes we had some very difficult times, but we persevered. There are few regrets, overall it was the very best choice we could have made. I appreciate every thing living in Alaska taught us. You can’t buy or imagine the life experiences we hadas a family. It made my children strong successful adults and our family an independent cohesive group and the best I could have hoped for as good people. (With normal flaws).

It's just over 4000 miles from here. Hubby and I drove to the Kenai Peninsula in about 7 days. We stopped in KS, WY, MT, twice in Canada, Fairbanks AK and Anchorage AK. We only drove during the day. We started about 7 AM and stopped at about 5 PM and did some sightseeing on the way, stopping at Yellowstone park among other places. Hubby drove or we would have been there sooner, since he always drives the speed limit.

We once left here for Galveston TX (where he has family) at about 11 PM. Hubby went to sleep while I drove. We made the 8 hour drive in just under 6 hours. He woke up and looked at his watch and asked me if I ever had the car under a hundred miles an hour. I told him I didn't know for sure but I did know I passed a couple of highway patrol cars at about 80. They didn't even glance my way. Needless to say on the long trips he doesn't sleep anymore, he drives. LOL.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

No junk or salvage records were found. I bet they let someone drive it, between 9/16/2013 & 8/28/2015, then later titled it over, but didn't update the odometer reading, and had to correct the title, and possibly remove a lien holder, which might explain the other two title change dates in 2015.

If it was a deal between two individuals then the seller is the one who reports the odometer reading right? So the seller could basically write down whatever they wanted to correct? Maybe the seller wrote down less miles than what was on the odometer (E.g the 197,682) and when the buyer resold it the buyer reported the miles correctly.

In other words owner 1 writes down 197682 miles when the truck really has 210000 miles on the odometer.

Owner 2 reports the correct mileage when they sell it at 220000 miles.

Does that make sense?

 

[Dudly]

So, was the person who owned the car when it was somehow involved in the Rhoden murders ever questioned? Why did they decide to sell it to James Manley and who told PCSO that the sale had occurred?

Why did PCSO put a GPS tracker on the red truck during the anniversary memorial for the Rhoden/Gilley family members, while family was in the church? Why would PCSO attempt to track James Manley when they already knew someone else owned and drove the suspect red truck the night of the murders?

JMO, someone at PCSO was trying to frame JM for the murders.

All of this was done as they were allowing the Wags family to move to Alaska with S, even though PCSO had "laser focus" on them.

One incident you'll notice when watching the Gone: Missing Women of Ohio documentary is that there was an instance when LE decided to unfairly punish one of their women informants by having a judge unjustly take away the woman's children. Family courts work with LE down there to punish innocent women.

I believe it was OBCI not PCSO that had the "laser focus" and installed the GPS device...

 

[rsd1200]

So, was the person who owned the car when it was somehow involved in the Rhoden murders ever questioned? Why did they decide to sell it to James Manley and who told PCSO that the sale had occurred?

Why did PCSO put a GPS tracker on the red truck during the anniversary memorial for the Rhoden/Gilley family members, while family was in the church? Why would PCSO attempt to track James Manley when they already knew someone else owned and drove the suspect red truck the night of the murders?

JMO, someone at PCSO was trying to frame JM for the murders.

All of this was done as they were allowing the Wags family to move to Alaska with S, even though PCSO had "laser focus" on them.

One incident you'll notice when watching the Gone: Missing Women of Ohio documentary is that there was an instance when LE decided to unfairly punish one of their women informants by having a judge unjustly take away the woman's children. Family courts work with LE down there to punish innocent women.

JM has never been named as a suspect for anything. A judge had to sign off on putting a tracking device on that vehicle, so there had to be just cause. I think the warrant pushed the envelope, personally, just based on what little we know, but maybe it served their purpose. They have called JM a witness. Maybe their end goal was to get him in front of the grand jury as a witness.

The warrant, signed by Pike County Common Pleas Judge Timothy S. Hogan, indicated authorities believe the truck was “used as a means of the commission of the crime’’ of aggravated murder. Or it was in the possession of another person with the intent to use the vehicle as a means of committing the crime, the warrant stated.


The search warrant never names Manley as a suspect, nor does it state that it is tied to the Rhoden homicide investigation.