Questions you'd like answers to...

[Annmarz]

Hello. New poster here, but well-read on the case. I have a question. What about the scream heard by the neighbor at around 1:30 am, I think? Assuming this is true and that it was a female scream, it had to be Patsy. And it had to be when Patsy found JB dead. And absolutely knew she was dead.

When I came across the body of my husband, in the basement no less, my brain could not process this or even consider that he was gone. I thought he was pulling a prank. I then angrily told him it wasn't funny. Finally I shook him, poked and pounded him, then started to panic and called 911. It never entered my mind that he had passed, not until later in the ER when they told me he was gone from a heart attack.

My initial reaction was to stay calm and strong. My son needed me. I told myself that I could say goodbye at the funeral. I handled things like a trooper until an hour or so later when I completely and totally fell apart.

Getting back to the case, Patsy must have been totally shocked and surprised and absolutely certain JBR was dead. If she was lying there from the head blow, and Patsy couldn't revive her, she would have called 911 then and summoned JR.

Unless she had something to hide, like sexual abuse of JBR which was known previously by Patsy. And someone to protect.

If Patsy accidentally or purposely delivered the head blow in a rage, would she have screamed like that? I doubt she would have thought JBR dead from it. She probably would have summoned John.

If Patsy found JBR with the ligature around her neck, and lying there unresponsive with perhaps even the paintbrush protruding, I think she would have screamed.

I believe I read that LE established that the neighbor could have heard the scream if it originated in the basement.

What about other areas of the house? The breakfast nook? A bedroom? Would JR have heard?

I don't think PDI but she staged. I believe JR also staged. I don't know who delivered the head blow but it looks like BDI. Either JR or Burke was abusing JBR previously.

 

[UKGuy]

Hello. New poster here, but well-read on the case. I have a question. What about the scream heard by the neighbor at around 1:30 am, I think? Assuming this is true and that it was a female scream, it had to be Patsy. And it had to be when Patsy found JB dead. And absolutely knew she was dead.

When I came across the body of my husband, in the basement no less, my brain could not process this or even consider that he was gone. I thought he was pulling a prank. I then angrily told him it wasn't funny. Finally I shook him, poked and pounded him, then started to panic and called 911. It never entered my mind that he had passed, not until later in the ER when they told me he was gone from a heart attack.

My initial reaction was to stay calm and strong. My son needed me. I told myself that I could say goodbye at the funeral. I handled things like a trooper until an hour or so later when I completely and totally fell apart.

Getting back to the case, Patsy must have been totally shocked and surprised and absolutely certain JBR was dead. If she was lying there from the head blow, and Patsy couldn't revive her, she would have called 911 then and summoned JR.

Unless she had something to hide, like sexual abuse of JBR which was known previously by Patsy. And someone to protect.

If Patsy accidentally or purposely delivered the head blow in a rage, would she have screamed like that? I doubt she would have thought JBR dead from it. She probably would have summoned John.

If Patsy found JBR with the ligature around her neck, and lying there unresponsive with perhaps even the paintbrush protruding, I think she would have screamed.

I believe I read that LE established that the neighbor could have heard the scream if it originated in the basement.

What about other areas of the house? The breakfast nook? A bedroom? Would JR have heard?

I don't think PDI but she staged. I believe JR also staged. I don't know who delivered the head blow but it looks like BDI. Either JR or Burke was abusing JBR previously.

Annmarz,
Welcome aboard, no medical assistance was called even if it was accidental, why so?

Sure that could have been Patsy screaming when she found JonBenet that seems the best explanation.

JR and PR staged the wine-cellar there is forensic evidence linking them directly to JonBenet in the wine-cellar, e.g. fibers and they should just not be there.

I actually thnk the head blow might represent failed staging, since none of the Ramsey's needed to use blunt force trauma on JonBenet.

I reckon all the wine-cellar is staging, inluding the ligature, paintbrush and how JonBenet is dressed.

It all boils down to a parent possibly being staged out of the case and an Intruder in, or both parents were staging Burke out of the case.

John has the most stories to tell about the basement over stuff that should not interest him at all. I think most of what passes Patsy's and John's lips regarding the basement is a cover story, just ask yourself why JonBenet's bike was over at the Barnhills and where was Burke's bike kept, i.e. what was wrong with the wine-cellar, e.g. it was fine for Burke's birthday gifts, so?

.

 

[Swirlz]

The scream was mentioned by Lin Wood in the Steve Thomas deposition in 2001:

Q. Did you find Melody Stanton to be

4 a credible witness in terms of hearing a

5 scream of a child sometime around midnight?

6 A. I wish I could have talked to

7 her. I never talked to Melody Stanton.

8 Q. Did the Boulder Police Department

9 consider her to be credible?

10 A. This collective Boulder Police

11 Department, I don't know what their opinion

12 was of her, but certainly Detective Hartkopp

13 interviewed her and whether or not he found

14 her to be credible, you would have to ask

15 him. But apparently so, he never said

16 anything to the contrary.

17 Q. In your scenario that Mr. Hoffman

18 had you read into the record, your

19 description of the death of JonBenet Ramsey,

20 do you include in that description as

21 accurate that there was a scream as described

22 by Melody Stanton?

23 A. According to an ear witness,

24 Melody Stanton.

25 Q. So the answer is yes?

253

1 A. If the question is, was there a

2 scream and do I believe there was a scream

3 that this witness heard, yes.

 

[Annmarz]

So the witness thought it was the scream of a child. Why would JB scream? Was it Burke using the paintbrush on her? The head blow would have rendered her unconscious and she wouldn't have been able to scream if being strangled. If she was screaming in terror from being locked in a closet or room, would it have been heard?

If JB or Burke had been previously abusing her, what was different about that night to make her scream? Unless she always screamed while being abused?

Were they staging for an Intruder that night? I thought the intruder theory didn't arise till months later. And JB said it must be an inside job, shortly after the murder.

It is hard to believe that Burke was capable of all this, but it is possible. What is the likelihood of TWO boys acting together like B and his friend?

So Burke could have been a sick murderer. JB could have killed her because maybe she threatened to tell about abuse? What would PR motive be? Motives for murder seem weak. I think it was an accident, but who did it?

 

[Cottonstar]

Hello. New poster here, but well-read on the case. I have a question. What about the scream heard by the neighbor at around 1:30 am, I think? Assuming this is true and that it was a female scream, it had to be Patsy. And it had to be when Patsy found JB dead. And absolutely knew she was dead.

When I came across the body of my husband, in the basement no less, my brain could not process this or even consider that he was gone. I thought he was pulling a prank. I then angrily told him it wasn't funny. Finally I shook him, poked and pounded him, then started to panic and called 911. It never entered my mind that he had passed, not until later in the ER when they told me he was gone from a heart attack.

My initial reaction was to stay calm and strong. My son needed me. I told myself that I could say goodbye at the funeral. I handled things like a trooper until an hour or so later when I completely and totally fell apart.

Getting back to the case, Patsy must have been totally shocked and surprised and absolutely certain JBR was dead. If she was lying there from the head blow, and Patsy couldn't revive her, she would have called 911 then and summoned JR.

Unless she had something to hide, like sexual abuse of JBR which was known previously by Patsy. And someone to protect.

If Patsy accidentally or purposely delivered the head blow in a rage, would she have screamed like that? I doubt she would have thought JBR dead from it. She probably would have summoned John.

If Patsy found JBR with the ligature around her neck, and lying there unresponsive with perhaps even the paintbrush protruding, I think she would have screamed.

I believe I read that LE established that the neighbor could have heard the scream if it originated in the basement.

What about other areas of the house? The breakfast nook? A bedroom? Would JR have heard?

I don't think PDI but she staged. I believe JR also staged. I don't know who delivered the head blow but it looks like BDI. Either JR or Burke was abusing JBR previously.

I believe I read that LE established that the neighbor could have heard the scream if it originated in the basement.

What about other areas of the house? The breakfast nook? A bedroom? Would JR have heard?

Melody Stanton’s bedroom was at the same height as Burke’s room, on the second floor. It faced the Ramsey house. She assumed the scream came just south of the Ramsey home. The south side of the Ramsey home facing towards the street is the large balcony coming off Burke’s room. If JonBenét was in the basement boiler room when she screamed, that sound would have travelled through an air vent. Directly above this air vent is Burke Ramsey’s room.

 

[Cottonstar]

So the witness thought it was the scream of a child. Why would JB scream? Was it Burke using the paintbrush on her? The head blow would have rendered her unconscious and she wouldn't have been able to scream if being strangled. If she was screaming in terror from being locked in a closet or room, would it have been heard?

If JB or Burke had been previously abusing her, what was different about that night to make her scream? Unless she always screamed while being abused?

Were they staging for an Intruder that night? I thought the intruder theory didn't arise till months later. And JB said it must be an inside job, shortly after the murder.

It is hard to believe that Burke was capable of all this, but it is possible. What is the likelihood of TWO boys acting together like B and his friend?

So Burke could have been a sick murderer. JB could have killed her because maybe she threatened to tell about abuse? What would PR motive be? Motives for murder seem weak. I think it was an accident, but who did it?

“Stanton said there had been only one scream but it was horrifying. If it came from the child, she assumed the scream had awakened her parents” (Schiller 1999a: 76-77); in Thomas’s account, it was a “piercing scream” (Thomas 2000a: 78-79); in the Bonita Papers, Stanton was awakened by ‘one loud, incredible scream’. She related that it was “obviously from a child”” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped”… (Sauers 1998).

I believe the rope around her neck may have been a desperate attempt to silence her-which failed. The angry spontaneous head blow succeeded.


“Stanton’s husband had heard a crashing sound –the sound of metal on concrete –sometime after the scream” (Schiller 1999a: 531-532).

It’s also important to note that Luther Stanton never used the word scraping in concrete. He said crashing.

 

[UKGuy]

So the witness thought it was the scream of a child. Why would JB scream? Was it Burke using the paintbrush on her? The head blow would have rendered her unconscious and she wouldn't have been able to scream if being strangled. If she was screaming in terror from being locked in a closet or room, would it have been heard?

If JB or Burke had been previously abusing her, what was different about that night to make her scream? Unless she always screamed while being abused?

Were they staging for an Intruder that night? I thought the intruder theory didn't arise till months later. And JB said it must be an inside job, shortly after the murder.

It is hard to believe that Burke was capable of all this, but it is possible. What is the likelihood of TWO boys acting together like B and his friend?

So Burke could have been a sick murderer. JB could have killed her because maybe she threatened to tell about abuse? What would PR motive be? Motives for murder seem weak. I think it was an accident, but who did it?

Annmarz,

So the witness thought it was the scream of a child. Why would JB scream? Was it Burke using the paintbrush on her? The head blow would have rendered her unconscious and she wouldn't have been able to scream if being strangled. If she was screaming in terror from being locked in a closet or room, would it have been heard?

BBM: Nope, because the use of the paintbrush is staging. It was down in the basement in a paint-tote, whilst JonBenet was upstairs in a bedroom. IMO Spitz's kitchen scenario has been constructed to fit a TV theory.

Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair in ponytails, she never went to the White's party with her hair as she was found postmortem, the party photographs should confirm this?

If JB or Burke had been previously abusing her, what was different about that night to make her scream? Unless she always screamed while being abused?

Good question, also why was violence required, yet absent on other occasions?

Were they staging for an Intruder that night? I thought the intruder theory didn't arise till months later. And JB said it must be an inside job, shortly after the murder.

This is part of JR's continually changing narrative, e.g. flashlight, chair in front of door, broken window, samsonite suitcase, Patsy did not know Burke's gifts were in the wine-cellar, etc.

They were staging for an intruder as it explains why JonBenet was moved from her bedroom to the basement, and by extension her sexual assault.

It is hard to believe that Burke was capable of all this, but it is possible. What is the likelihood of TWO boys acting together like B and his friend?

BlueCrab suggested this theory many years ago, the first to do so actually. He said there was a bike missing from the house, possibly Burke's Christmas gift, which could have been used to transport a friend home in the middle of the night?

So Burke could have been a sick murderer. JB could have killed her because maybe she threatened to tell about abuse? What would PR motive be? Motives for murder seem weak. I think it was an accident, but who did it?

It was no accident, consider the injuries sustained by JonBenet, i.e. blunt force trauma to her head, contusions and abrasions all over her body, including a sexual assault, followed up by ligature asphyxiation, definitely no accident!

JonBenet was Patsy's project, short of her being drugged up that night I cannot see Patsy assaulting JonBenet with such violence.

It looks like the parents staged the wine-cellar crime-scene, the Grand-Jury findings more or less confirm this.

Who did it depends on who you think the parents were staging out of the wine-cellar crime-scene?

.

 

[UKGuy]

“Stanton said there had been only one scream but it was horrifying. If it came from the child, she assumed the scream had awakened her parents” (Schiller 1999a: 76-77); in Thomas’s account, it was a “piercing scream” (Thomas 2000a: 78-79); in the Bonita Papers, Stanton was awakened by ‘one loud, incredible scream’. She related that it was “obviously from a child”” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped”… (Sauers 1998).

I believe the rope around her neck may have been a desperate attempt to silence her-which failed. The angry spontaneous head blow succeeded.


“Stanton’s husband had heard a crashing sound –the sound of metal on concrete –sometime after the scream” (Schiller 1999a: 531-532).

It’s also important to note that Luther Stanton never used the word scraping in concrete. He said crashing.

Cottonstar,

I believe the rope around her neck may have been a desperate attempt to silence her-which failed. The angry spontaneous head blow succeeded.

I reckon its part of the wine-cellar crime-scene staging. Its not needed, no killer needs to ligature asphyxiate a defenceless child.

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,

I reckon its part of the wine-cellar crime-scene staging. Its not needed, no killer needs to ligature asphyxiate a defenceless child.

.

Ahhhh UK. You are thinking of it
all wrong. This is why people can’t get past this. The rope around her neck is not sadistic or
sexual and wasn’t even meant to kill her. Christmas night was a culmination of a perfect storm that led to her coup de gras.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,

I reckon its part of the wine-cellar crime-scene staging. Its not needed, no killer needs to ligature asphyxiate a defenceless child.

.

UK- The cord around her neck is not staging!

 

[UKGuy]

UK- The cord around her neck is not staging!

Cottonstar,
Really, then why was it used and not say the killers hands or a pillow?

Why bother with all that knotting and particular placement on her neck?

The majority of what you see in the wine-cellar has been staged just for you.

Its nearly all contrived to mask what went before, e.g. JonBenet's acute sexual assault has been hidden from view beneath her clothing.

The ligature might be intended to represent a visible cause of death?

Who knows what the size-12's are meant to signify never mind Burke's longjohns. Why would Patsy say she dressed JonBenet in Burke's longjohns yet miss the size-12's?

Whatever happened that night took place in one of the bedrooms after Burke and JonBenet had a pineapple snack.

The rest is staging.

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Really, then why was it used and not say the killers hands or a pillow?

Why bother with all that knotting and particular placement on her neck?

Exactly. Keep thinking. Why bother? Why is the nightgown in the cellar?
Keep thinking.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,
Really, then why was it used and not say the killers hands or a pillow?

Why bother with all that knotting and particular placement on her neck?

The majority of what you see in the wine-cellar has been staged just for you.

Its nearly all contrived to mask what went before, e.g. JonBenet's acute sexual assault has been hidden from view beneath her clothing.

The ligature might be intended to represent a visible cause of death?

Who knows what the size-12's are meant to signify never mind Burke's longjohns. Why would Patsy say she dressed JonBenet in Burke's longjohns yet miss the size-12's?

Whatever happened that night took place in one of the bedrooms after Burke and JonBenet had a pineapple snack.

The rest is staging.

.

The upstairs crime scene has a level of sophistication in it.

The basement crime scene disorganized mumbo jumbo.

Why?

 

[UKGuy]

The upstairs crime scene has a level of sophistication in it.

The basement crime scene disorganized mumbo jumbo.

Why?

Cottonstar,
More than likely because there was a prior staging in the basement, which JR revised leading to JR offering ad hoc explanations for items that did not seem to fit, e.g. samsonite suitcase, chair, etc.

Most of what is in the wine-cellar is there to dissociate it from its original location, e.g. a bedroom.

JonBenet's bedroom is in a state of disarray, whether this is by design or accident is difficult to decide upon.

It looks like they staged JonBenet's death, i.e. ligature asphyxiation, redressed and wiped her down, wrapping her in the white blanket and placing her in the wine-cellar, the barbie-nightgown might be what she was wearing prior to being redressed?

The partially opened gifts might never have been in there, Burke could have removed them from where they were originally kept by Patsy, with the parents saying we kept them in the wine-cellar as a cover for relocating them to the wine-cellar?

LHP the housekeeper, from memory, has not said she saw any gifts in the wine-cellar, and I think this includes her husband and daughter who helped move Christmas Decorations before Christmas week, e.g. Christmas Tree, Garlanding, etc?

IMO the ransom note is there to explain why JonBenet ends up in the wine-cellar and her being redressed is to hide the sexual assault.

Not all the staging needs to have taken place in the basement!

.

 

[AndHence]

I wouldn't put too much stock in Stanton's scream testimony. She later said it might have been a psychic dream -- a warning from JonBenet. It's no secret that people like to insert themselves into high-profile cases. I'm agnostic on the scream; Stanton likely wouldn't have been able to hear it anyway.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

If the actual crime scene was one of the bedrooms upstairs, i guess we can barely say that the paintbrush was used solely for staging as the paint tray was in the basement. That means it was used for covering either that night's or previous sexual assault and added to the end of the rope which again makes me think the rope stangulation and head trauma occurred upstairs .
She was possibily hidden in the winecellar wrapped in the white blanket first as the ransom note pointed a kidnapping and seeing the cops not leaving the plan switched and she was pulled near the entrance to be found
and the paintbrush might have been added then.

I cannot see reason for any staging on Jon Benet with the paintbrush if the initial plan was taking her out of the house. Maybe they planned to take her to Charlevouix and bury her to unknown place only the parents would know.

 

[UKGuy]

If the actual crime scene was one of the bedrooms upstairs, i guess we can barely say that the paintbrush was used solely for staging as the paint tray was in the basement. That means it was used for covering either that night's or previous sexual assault and added to the end of the rope which again makes me think the rope stangulation and head trauma occurred upstairs .
She was possibily hidden in the winecellar wrapped in the white blanket first as the ransom note pointed a kidnapping and seeing the cops not leaving the plan switched and she was pulled near the entrance to be found
and the paintbrush might have been added then.

I cannot see reason for any staging on Jon Benet with the paintbrush if the initial plan was taking her out of the house. Maybe they planned to take her to Charlevouix and bury her to unknown place only the parents would know.

MURDERER_SERVANT,
ITA. Patsy likely prepared JonBenet for bed, dressed her in the pink barbie nightgown, put her hair in ponytails, then let her have a pineapple snack.

Looks like JonBenet was sexually assaulted in her bedroom, possibly manually strangled or smothered to prevent her alerting anyone? The head injury appears to be a failed attempt at killing JonBenet, possibly followed up by a ligature asphyxiation, e.g. no knotting or paintbrush. Someone wiped down and redressed JonBenet as she lay on her bed.

One of the Ramsey's selected the basement as the location of a staged crime-scene, meaning they needed an explanation for JonBenet being moved from her bedroom to the basement, hence the RN.

They faked her cause of death. e.g. asphyxiation via paintbrush and ligature, by affixing the broken paintbrush to the ligature.

JonBenet might not have been in the wine-cellar, as per FW missing her, she was later moved by JR to the wine-cellar using the blanket to insulate him from forensic cross-transfer?

The wine-cellar, its contents and the use of the paintbrush tell us the parents never intended removing JonBenet from the house.

They wanted to do enough crime-scene staging to confuse subsequent investigators, in this they appear successful?

.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

MURDERER_SERVANT,
ITA. Patsy likely prepared JonBenet for bed, dressed her in the pink barbie nightgown, put her hair in ponytails, then let her have a pineapple snack.

Looks like JonBenet was sexually assaulted in her bedroom, possibly manually strangled or smothered to prevent her alerting anyone? The head injury appears to be a failed attempt at killing JonBenet, possibly followed up by a ligature asphyxiation, e.g. no knotting or paintbrush. Someone wiped down and redressed JonBenet as she lay on her bed.

One of the Ramsey's selected the basement as the location of a staged crime-scene, meaning they needed an explanation for JonBenet being moved from her bedroom to the basement, hence the RN.

They faked her cause of death. e.g. asphyxiation via paintbrush and ligature, by affixing the broken paintbrush to the ligature.

JonBenet might not have been in the wine-cellar, as per FW missing her, she was later moved by JR to the wine-cellar using the blanket to insulate him from forensic cross-transfer?

The wine-cellar, its contents and the use of the paintbrush tell us the parents never intended removing JonBenet from the house.

They wanted to do enough crime-scene staging to confuse subsequent investigators, in this they appear successful?

.

UKGuy
The family members would be the prime suspects if JB was found in the house and they must have thought they couldn't get away with it. I tend to think JB was put in the suitcase to be taken out of the house but it was too risky so they decided to take her away after the LE left. Putting the suitcase under the window was an attemt to suggest that the intruder dealt with the suitcase in case any evidence from JB could be traced in it imo. Cause why not a chair was put there ?
I also think the suitcase was taken to the basement that night . JR 's exlanation in his interview that he himself took it down there before was absurd. Most of the staging and arranging in the basement was done by JR imo.

 

[Cottonstar]

Before Christmas night in 1996, who is the most likely person in the household to have put a suitcase up to the window in the train room so they could see/look-out or clean-up?

Who is the most likely person to leave a shoe/scuff mark in the middle of the wall below the window if they are standing on the suitcase trying to get up/out?

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,
Really, then why was it used and not say the killers hands or a pillow?

Why bother with all that knotting and particular placement on her neck?

UK? Anybody?