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Cottonstar said:
UK? Anybody?
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Cottonstar.

IMO it was Patsy who did most of the staging in the wine-cellar. Her fibers are in locations they should not be, e.g. sticky side of the duct tape, embedded in the knotting of the ligature.

the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene, which includes JonBenet who Patsy has staged to appear as if the sole cause of death has been the ligature/paintbrush asphyxiation.

The staging was so effective Lou Smit said JonBenét was a pedophile's dream come true, he even climbed in through the basement window.

An intruder would have simply manually strangled JonBenet and left her naked in her bedroom, the intruder having gained entry would be confident of exiting anonymously so how JonBenet is left has no consequence.

So you could agree with Steve Thomas that Patsy was attempting to stage herself out of the case after assaulting JonBenet for wetting the bed?

Or follow James Kolar's torturous implications to the end that Burke assaulted and killed JonBenet, with Patsy staging Burke out of the case?

Alternatively Patsy is staging JR out of the case?


Three doctors said JonBenet had been sexually assaulted the night of her death. This is not something I would associate with Patsy.

Assuming most members do not think Patsy dressed JonBenet for bed as she described in her version of events, then why should she take responsibility for Burke's long johns?

JonBenet had a full wardrobe of bedclothing why would Patsy select Burke's long johns as appropriate bedtime wear for a staged crime-scene?

Short answer, Patsy is lying through her teeth and the person who dressed her in the size-12's also dressed her in the long-johns, Patsy was short of time so had to enact a rushed staging.

So you can suggest either BR or JR did the redressing and wiping down. That JR's fibers were found on JonBenet's thighs might be an important clue.

If the GJ cannot level a charge of Murder in the First Degree against JR, but say both parents assisted the killer, then that allows BDI by default.

Add in that both JR and BR continue to collude over their version of events with both reciting new untold facts which might suggest both have skin in the game.

Its really just a case of who is backing up who. IMO both JR and BR know who killed JonBenet !
 
UKGuy said:
Cottonstar.

IMO it was Patsy who did most of the staging in the wine-cellar. Her fibers are in locations they should not be, e.g. sticky side of the duct tape, embedded in the knotting of the ligature.

the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene, which includes JonBenet who Patsy has staged to appear as if the sole cause of death has been the ligature/paintbrush asphyxiation.

The staging was so effective Lou Smit said JonBenét was a pedophile's dream come true, he even climbed in through the basement window.

An intruder would have simply manually strangled JonBenet and left her naked in her bedroom, the intruder having gained entry would be confident of exiting anonymously so how JonBenet is left has no consequence.

So you could agree with Steve Thomas that Patsy was attempting to stage herself out of the case after assaulting JonBenet for wetting the bed?

Or follow James Kolar's torturous implications to the end that Burke assaulted and killed JonBenet, with Patsy staging Burke out of the case?

Alternatively Patsy is staging JR out of the case?


Three doctors said JonBenet had been sexually assaulted the night of her death. This is not something I would associate with Patsy.

Assuming most members do not think Patsy dressed JonBenet for bed as she described in her version of events, then why should she take responsibility for Burke's long johns?

JonBenet had a full wardrobe of bedclothing why would Patsy select Burke's long johns as appropriate bedtime wear for a staged crime-scene?

Short answer, Patsy is lying through her teeth and the person who dressed her in the size-12's also dressed her in the long-johns, Patsy was short of time so had to enact a rushed staging.

So you can suggest either BR or JR did the redressing and wiping down. That JR's fibers were found on JonBenet's thighs might be an important clue.

If the GJ cannot level a charge of Murder in the First Degree against JR, but say both parents assisted the killer, then that allows BDI by default.

Add in that both JR and BR continue to collude over their version of events with both reciting new untold facts which might suggest both have skin in the game.

Its really just a case of who is backing up who. IMO both JR and BR know who killed JonBenet !
Click to expand...
So you’re saying that Patsy most likely added the ligature and paintbrush handle to JonBenet’s neck? Was it added to strangle her and finish her off or was it just staging?
 
UKGuy said:
Cottonstar.

IMO it was Patsy who did most of the staging in the wine-cellar. Her fibers are in locations they should not be, e.g. sticky side of the duct tape, embedded in the knotting of the ligature.

the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene, which includes JonBenet who Patsy has staged to appear as if the sole cause of death has been the ligature/paintbrush asphyxiation.

The staging was so effective Lou Smit said JonBenét was a pedophile's dream come true, he even climbed in through the basement window.

An intruder would have simply manually strangled JonBenet and left her naked in her bedroom, the intruder having gained entry would be confident of exiting anonymously so how JonBenet is left has no consequence.

So you could agree with Steve Thomas that Patsy was attempting to stage herself out of the case after assaulting JonBenet for wetting the bed?

Or follow James Kolar's torturous implications to the end that Burke assaulted and killed JonBenet, with Patsy staging Burke out of the case?

Alternatively Patsy is staging JR out of the case?


Three doctors said JonBenet had been sexually assaulted the night of her death. This is not something I would associate with Patsy.

Assuming most members do not think Patsy dressed JonBenet for bed as she described in her version of events, then why should she take responsibility for Burke's long johns?

JonBenet had a full wardrobe of bedclothing why would Patsy select Burke's long johns as appropriate bedtime wear for a staged crime-scene?

Short answer, Patsy is lying through her teeth and the person who dressed her in the size-12's also dressed her in the long-johns, Patsy was short of time so had to enact a rushed staging.

So you can suggest either BR or JR did the redressing and wiping down. That JR's fibers were found on JonBenet's thighs might be an important clue.

If the GJ cannot level a charge of Murder in the First Degree against JR, but say both parents assisted the killer, then that allows BDI by default.

Add in that both JR and BR continue to collude over their version of events with both reciting new untold facts which might suggest both have skin in the game.

Its really just a case of who is backing up who. IMO both JR and BR know who killed JonBenet !
Click to expand...
The few fibers associated with Patsy can all be explained via some sort of staging or closeness to her daughter prior to and/or after her death. If they were looking and they weren’t, I bet BR walked out of the house with the source of a lot of fibers that weren’t accounted for.

The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
 
Cottonstar said:
The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
Click to expand...

How can you say this when we knew she was directly involved in the staging of the note? Why wouldn't she have been involved in other elements -- of the staging in particular?
 
Cottonstar said:
The few fibers associated with Patsy can all be explained via some sort of staging or closeness to her daughter prior to and/or after her death. If they were looking and they weren’t, I bet BR walked out of the house with the source of a lot of fibers that weren’t accounted for.

The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
Click to expand...

Cottonstar,
The few fibers associated with Patsy can all be explained via some sort of staging or closeness to her daughter prior to and/or after her death.
Click to expand...
Nope, not when they are embedded into the knotting of the ligature on the broken paintbrush handle, similar with the fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth.

The fibers link Patsy directly to the wine-cellar as does JR's Israeli shirt fibers , allegedly found on JonBenet's thighs.

Cross-transfer is valid anywhere else in the house but not in the wine-cellar given the few items found in there.

The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
Click to expand...
JR and PR are the only candidates for the wine-cellar staging. Burke Ramsey was too young construct such a fake crime-scene.

You must revise your theory to accomodate the facts not what you observe down the rabbit hole.

.
 
UKGuy said:
Cottonstar,

Nope, not when they are embedded into the knotting of the ligature on the broken paintbrush handle, similar with the fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth.

The fibers link Patsy directly to the wine-cellar as does JR's Israeli shirt fibers , allegedly found on JonBenet's thighs.

Cross-transfer is valid anywhere else in the house but not in the wine-cellar given the few items found in there.


JR and PR are the only candidates for the wine-cellar staging. Burke Ramsey was too young construct such a fake crime-scene.

You must revise your theory to accomodate the facts not what you observe down the rabbit hole.

.
Click to expand...
What facts?
 
[QUOTE="
The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.[/QUOTE]

I am really surprised you think that. In my opinion the wine cellar and basement are all JR and PR. I just don't think there is anyway BR was that sophisticated at 9. Not that the staging was great (well maybe it was as they did get off) but it would be very sophisticated for such a young boy.

Why would PR write the RN and not stage the basement? That makes no sense. Lets just say BDI; and PR wrote the RN to cover for him. And then her part stops? I will say it is odd that she didn't get rid of the swiss knife down there. But I suspect time was running out. They had to be done with everything by 6 or 6:30 because they were expected by the pilot.

Hopefully you will share your whole theory!
 
Cottonstar said:
What facts?
Click to expand...

Cottonstar,

Consider:

Excerpt from Listen Carefully Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case, True Crime Detectives Guild 2016

According to a statement by Bruce Levin, during Patsy Ramsey’s interview with law enforcement in the August 28, 2000, lab results indicated fiber evidence discovered at the crime scene was consistent with the fibers from clothing John and Patsy had worn to the Whites’ Christmas dinner on December 25, 1996. Levin elaborated further:

“Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her [Patsy’s] jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenét's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, (and) were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth.”

Detective James Kolar confirmed this fiber evidence in his book about the Ramsey case:

“…lab technicians had identified eight different types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used to cover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic, and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy Ramsey’s Essentials [brand] jacket. Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.”[29]

In addition, fibers consistent with fibers from John Ramsey’s new Israeli-wool shirt were said to be in the crotch of the extremely large, straight-from-the-package, new Bloomies panties found on JonBenét’s body.

Levin had stated during John Ramsey’s August 28, 2000 law enforcement interview, “Mr. Ramsey, it is our belief based on forensic evidence that there are hairs that are associated, that the source is the collared black shirt that you sent us that are found in your daughter's underpants.”

While the Ramseys were not under oath when questioned, investigators constructed a preamble of sorts to the questioning about fibers. They asked Patsy if she had worn her jacket when she painted or when in the basement. Patsy replied she had not. Similarly, they asked John Ramsey if he had assisted JonBenét in the bathroom that evening or had helped change her into the clothing she was found wearing. In response, John denied any interactions in dressing her or assisting her in the bathroom. The Ramseys’ answers to these questions eliminated possible innocent explanations they may have tried to offer when confronted with this evidence.
Click to expand...

.
 
kaykay543 said:
[QUOTE="
The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
Click to expand...

I am really surprised you think that. In my opinion the wine cellar and basement are all JR and PR. I just don't think there is anyway BR was that sophisticated at 9. Not that the staging was great (well maybe it was as they did get off) but it would be very sophisticated for such a young boy.

Why would PR write the RN and not stage the basement? That makes no sense. Lets just say BDI; and PR wrote the RN to cover for him. And then her part stops? I will say it is odd that she didn't get rid of the swiss knife down there. But I suspect time was running out. They had to be done with everything by 6 or 6:30 because they were expected by the pilot.

Hopefully you will share your whole theory![/QUOTE]

Exactly. Agree with this entire post 100% -- especially with this point: why would PR write the ransom note and not stage the basement?
 
kaykay543 said:
[QUOTE="
The further I go down the rabbit hole as to the wine cellar evidence the less I see of Patsy and JR in the basement staging.
Click to expand...

I am really surprised you think that. In my opinion the wine cellar and basement are all JR and PR. I just don't think there is anyway BR was that sophisticated at 9. Not that the staging was great (well maybe it was as they did get off) but it would be very sophisticated for such a young boy.

Why would PR write the RN and not stage the basement? That makes no sense. Lets just say BDI; and PR wrote the RN to cover for him. And then her part stops? I will say it is odd that she didn't get rid of the swiss knife down there. But I suspect time was running out. They had to be done with everything by 6 or 6:30 because they were expected by the pilot.

Hopefully you will share your whole theory![/QUOTE]


I’m not saying J&P didn’t stage in the wine cellar. I’m saying if you really break it down and microscope it, they were more hands off than i originally thought when it comes to the wine cellar staging. They were more covering up for what was already done.
 
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UKGuy said:
Cottonstar,

Consider:

Excerpt from Listen Carefully Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case, True Crime Detectives Guild 2016



.
Click to expand...
UK-

I’m aware of the fiber evidence. I’m saying that all of that evidence like it or not implicates Patsy as a stager not as the killer. If we knew what Burke was wearing that night, I am sure a lot more of the 4,000 fibers in this case would have been identified.
 
Cottonstar said:
UK-

I’m aware of the fiber evidence. I’m saying that all of that evidence like it or not implicates Patsy as a stager not as the killer. If we knew what Burke was wearing that night, I am sure a lot more of the 4,000 fibers in this case would have been identified.
Click to expand...


Cottonstar,
Sure, the fibers suggest Patsy and John staged the wine-cellar. I agree they do not tell us who killed JonBenet?

If you like Steve Thomas' bedwetting theory or some variant then the fibers will back up PDI.

Otherwise its JDI or BDI.

Given the GJ True Bills the case looks more BDI than JDI.

.
 
Cottonstar said:
I’m not saying J&P didn’t stage in the wine cellar. I’m saying if you really break it down and microscope it, they were more hands off than i originally thought when it comes to the wine cellar staging. They were more covering up for what was already done.
Click to expand...

Well, this would be true no matter who did it (out of all 3), though.
 
Cottonstar said:
I am really surprised you think that. In my opinion the wine cellar and basement are all JR and PR. I just don't think there is anyway BR was that sophisticated at 9. Not that the staging was great (well maybe it was as they did get off) but it would be very sophisticated for such a young boy.

Why would PR write the RN and not stage the basement? That makes no sense. Lets just say BDI; and PR wrote the RN to cover for him. And then her part stops? I will say it is odd that she didn't get rid of the swiss knife down there. But I suspect time was running out. They had to be done with everything by 6 or 6:30 because they were expected by the pilot.

Hopefully you will share your whole theory!
Click to expand...


I’m not saying J&P didn’t stage in the wine cellar. I’m saying if you really break it down and microscope it, they were more hands off than i originally thought when it comes to the wine cellar staging. They were more covering up for what was already done.[/QUOTE]

Cottonstar,
I’m not saying J&P didn’t stage in the wine cellar. I’m saying if you really break it down and microscope it, they were more hands off than i originally thought when it comes to the wine cellar staging. They were more covering up for what was already done.
Click to expand...
I reckon you are spot on here. Initially, thats years ago, I thought there were about three stagings, then settled on two, as I thought I could demonstrate that amount.

I think the primary crime-scene was upstairs in one of the bedrooms, e.g. JonBenet's. Whoever assaulted JonBenet likely staged her in her bedroom as the victim of a break-in?

Whoever was doing the staging had to know what was required to be hidden, e.g. the parents missed the breakfast bar in the panic to stage.

Since JR's fibers are on the size-12's we know he is directly involved in the staging, minimally wiping down JonBenet, or more extensively redressing JonBenet?

If the case were simply JDI and Patsy is helping out then why is the staging so inept with many items out of place, would you not expect Patsy to suggest to JR, hey she should wear this or that, put that gown in the washing machine, yada, yada?

The absence of adult staging finesse, and as you suggest; They were more covering up for what was already done., leads to the speculation that they were staging not for each other but for Burke?

.
 
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