CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #17

[sun16]

Is AP on the witness list? I must be the last to know who this is. Oh!....affair partner...ok. I thought AP were real initials for a real name. Was driving me nuts.

 

[NuttMegg]

I do not know, but I did read that CW had been out & about with AP, and co-workers were also well aware of the affair. My hypothesis is that someone told SW or texted her a picture or something. She knew. That’s why she told NU she was going to be needing a friend as they headed black from AZ. She was going home to face it.

If he'd been working there for awhile it makes sense that she had met some of his co-workers and one of them let it slip, meaning to or not. Another thing I have seen is that ppl who are in love, even in an affair, often bring that other person's name up, and maybe she just put 2+2 together.

 

[MassGuy]

I thought of that, but he thinks that people will believe that she killed them?

He was arrogant enough to go on television and lie to the country. Perhaps he is also arrogant enough to believe that people will buy his ludicrous story.

 

[The Saint]

IIRC, someone else refuted that theory by saying that most of the operators have battery powered impact wrenches that could remove and replace the bolts in minutes. Will we ever know what he really did?

What I would like to see is an actual picture of these tanks with a manway. Was the manway on the very top of the tank OR was it on the uppermost part of the side of the tank?

I think that these videos have already been posted on WS but I don't know where.

They really help you understand the tanks and the very
remote location of the tanks the girls where found in.

1) " Chris Watts - The Walk to the top of an oil tank & Actual Photos of Anadarco Oil Tank Site"

Please note that this is not the actual tank Chris used to dump his children. That is not Chris in the video.

2) "The Christopher Watts Case: Finding the Oil Well"

This video is very long. Basically this couple drive on interstate76 to Roggen, CO where Chris told investigators
he had worked on Monday.

The couple keep driving around looking for an open entrance to get to the actual tanks used to dump the girls' bodies.

There is a lot of circling and repetition.
I had thought that the tanks were right by the rancher's house. They aren't they are way, way out. The ranch is very large and has lots of oil tanks that all look alike.

Y0u can spin down to 7:00 and not miss much. It's only at the very end that they can't go any closer due to a locked gate. You can see the tanks Chris used off in the distance.

Desolate, very remote and sad territory.

There are millions of the yellow flowers---Black Eyed Susans, so they are wild not planted.

I still don't get how Chris thinks the bodies wouldn't be discovered. Don't they ever clean the tanks?

 

[Layla123]

I am going to pick #1 and that his secrets were starting to catch up with him. It may have been just a matter of time before SW discovered exactly who she had really married and then everyone else would find out, too.

Wouldn't be surprised if one of the secrets ties into finances. I.e. gambling, prostitutes, being blackmailed, etc. etc. JMO

On AB they were talking like C.W. has been involved in many sordid activities, police are investigating every one, and they’re all going to come out. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t know.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think that these videos have already been posted on WS but I don't know where.

They really help you understand the tanks and the very
remote location of the tanks the girls where found in.

1) " Chris Watts - The Walk to the top of an oil tank & Actual Photos of Anadarco Oil Tank Site"

Please note that this is not the actual tank Chris used to dump his children. That is not Chris in the video.

2) "The Christopher Watts Case: Finding the Oil Well"

This video is very long. Basically this couple drive on interstate76 to Roggen, CO where Chris told investigators
he had worked on Monday.

The couple keep driving around looking for an open entrance to get to the actual tanks used to dump the girls' bodies.

There is a lot of circling and repetion.
I had thought that the tanks were right by the rancher's house. They aren't they are way, way out. The ranch is very large and has lots of oil tanks that all look alike.

Yiu can spin down to 7:00 and not miss much. It's only at the very end that they can't go any closer due to a locked gate. You can see the tanks Chris used off in the distance.

Desolate, very remote and sad territory.

There are millions of the yellow flowers---Black Eyed Susans, so they are wild not planted.

I still don't get how Chris thinks the bodies wouldn't be discovered. Don't they ever clean the tanks?

I saw that video last night, the futile drive of the couple. They kept showing the name of a different ranch that they thought was closed off because of fracking. Then at the end they focused in, barely, on the very distant tanks which they said matched the published gps coordinants. All ok, but i thought the tanks were on the cervil ranch, not the one we kept seeing on signs along the road in the video. I am not saying the name of the ranch in that video purposely. Imo

 

[borndem]

I understand that, but was wondering if he'd be allowed to do anything from jail? Seems doubtful. If somethings aren't dealt with, like the HOA, serious consequences could arise. I know, from experience, that some things have to be dealt with quickly. Another burden for the families. Thanks for the response.

It's all a big mess -- I would assume the house mortgage was in both their names, etc. And I don't know Co. law, but it seems to me if the HOA dues are still unpaid, I would guess that the HOA would simply put a lien on the house for the amount of the dues. It doesn't help the HOA at present, but they may be able to recoup if/when the house is sold. Who knoze what other financial items may be affected. I would also assume the couple did not have any co-signers on their loans. JMO

 

[The Saint]

I saw that video last night, the futile drive of the couple. They kept showing the name of a different ranch that they thought was closed off because of fracking. Then at the end they focused in, barely, on the very distant tanks which they said matched the published gps coordinants. All ok, but i thought the tanks were on the cervil ranch, not the one we kept seeing on signs along the road in the video. I am not saying the name of the ranch in that video purposely. Imo

They passed the Cervi Ranch sign at one point though. They were using the GPS coordinates listed by LE in one of the court documents to find the specific tanks.
Ceri and the other ranch border each other. Maybe the boundary line of the 2 ranches are off in the distance. G runs 3,000 cattle out of his friend Cervi's Ranch.

 

[borndem]

Thanks. Not in very state. Not in Texas or NC for instance. MacDonald was tried for first degree on just his youngest daughter in NC.

That's right -- this trial was in Federal Court, so the Co. laws may differ WRT charging and sentencing.
MacDonald was still given 3 life sentences, to be served consecutively.

 

[NuttMegg]

They past the Cervi Ranch sign at one point though. They were using the GPS coordinates listed by LE in one of the court documents to find the specific tanks.

i did see that one arch which appears in other videos, that has always been a question of mine, if he entered through the cervil ranch with those buildings there and was maybe restricted as to the time of day he could enter. Maybe the ranches are adjacent and the curious couple blew it by passing that arch.

 

[Layla123]

We keep saying he hated his life, but did he? After the killings he spent the night with their good friends, the Thayer’s. It’s like he planned to carry on as usual with his social life, only without his wife and kids. I think he thought he was going to get away with it. And maybe the reason he did it was because he didn’t want all his secrets to come out. He had an image to uphold, and he wanted to uphold it.

 

[Seattle1]

More from AB
1. He can talk to other other prisoners in their cells.
2. No access to exercise equipment.
3. Because he’s on suicide watch, no personal property.
4. Chaplain, counselors, and therapists are available to him.
5. Children were in small caskets.
6. CW’s family wasn’t there, but they are mourning just as much.
7. There is a 4th placque at cemetery for Nico.

Not that it matters one iota but I believe AB is incorrect about children in "small caskets" -- unless the camera angles were off while at the church alter. MOO

 

[borndem]

Each morning, I check here, hoping someone may suggest something, ? more evidence produced, LE announcements, anything that may help me understand.
As I sleep, as many of you type, I have loads to catch up on.
I quickly check the last posts, in case there is a 'finding' of sorts, and being disappointed, return to the beginning, to note words of wisdom, that may be produced.

How can a person do this to his family?: he has admitted a great deal, we have proof (although with his daughters still not clear to the public).
His charade is unbelievable, after his horrific actions.

Surely there will be a time, when he 'breaks', and we know 'why', or will this drag on for years?
Is he like so many others, 'hard as nails', and will not reveal 'why'?
At least, there is an admission, of some of his actions: we have that.
Will he ever provide these answers?
Perhaps experts in the Medical Profession, other evidence, conversations etc may soon be revealed, or do we wait for ? trial?

Hope he spills the beans, in Prison.

As to the why? of it, we may never find out -- as we know, motive is not a requirement for prosecution or conviction/acquittal. It's a good thing that it's not...

The prosecution often presents the scenario and touches on the why, but it's usually based on interviews with family, friends, co-workers, the "other" woman/man, etc., etc., and evidence. I'd surely like to know why, but I'm not holding my breath...

 

[NuttMegg]

Not that it matters one iota but I believe AB is incorrect about children in "small caskets" -- unless the camera angles were off while at the church alter. MOO

They looked normal size to me.

 

[mtnlites]

While probably not getting away with it, he'd probably have stood a better chance at getting the charges dropped down (and maybe only charged on her death) if he'd just left the bodies in the house and called police right after Shanann died. Calling them hysterically and screaming, "My wife just killed our girls so I attacked her", in hindsight, might have given him a leg to stand on. Hauling the bodies off almost an hour away, hiding them (though not well), going in to work like nothing happened, and then lying to LE and the media all makes him look really, REALLY bad. In fact, those are the things that make him look guilty in my book. That he didn't just call the police right after they died, I think, *may* point towards the fact that the girls were dead upon Shanann's arrival and probably had been for at least a little while. He might have been able to explain away all three dying within minutes of each other, but to have an hour or longer between them wasn't so justifiable.

I know that he can't have television or reading material in his cell, but I kind of wish that they'd take all the video footage of the girls, put it on a large flat screen, and play it on an endless loop right outside his door.

 

[RavenCC2020]

Fascinating. To break it down, with quotes from the above in green:

From the previous thread...I snipped ones that I did not think made a big difference. Bill's answers in BLACK and mine in BLUE

a good provider Check!
I think this one meant the most to him and how he would have defined himself for much of their marriage until the bankruptcy.

who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father Check! Appearances, very important to him

but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. Check! In spades.
Ditto It must have frustrated him that all friends they had were basically made because of Shannan and her wonderful, cheerful personality. I do believe he was planning to leech off that love from "their friends" and play the grieving husband/father but Nicole interuppted his plan and he had to go with Plan B...the divorce

He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy Unable to determine.
I think this is another biggie. It had to be clear to him every day after the bankruptcy moving forward that it was Shannan who was running full steam ahead and not allowing their current situation to determine how their future went. She was obviously determined to get back on track and achieve her goals even if it meant having to "drag" Negative Nellie with her across the finish line. SHE had already proven she was a capable person by purchasing her own home prior to even meeting CW when she even states it was the lowest part of her life after her divorce. Solid history of being the "phoenix" that is capable of rising from the ashes and moving on. Bumps didn't stop her.

It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship Could this be the bankruptcy or something indicated by the HOA lawsuit? Or the possibility of separation and divorce?
I tend to believe the bankruptcy would have a real impact on him. That it happened so early in their marriage it kind of highlights that he was limited when it came to $$ and lacked resourcefulness (and ambition) to dig in, get a second job if necessary and pull them out of the hole. After bankruptcy clearly Shannen was able to use that opportunity to go outside her comfort zone using a system MLM where you CAN do well if you are 100% dedicated. He did not rise to that challenge and was basically riding on her coat tails. A position someone like him would not be happy with.

He doesn't hate his children Check, from what we can tell
Hate is a strong word. No, I do not believe he hated them but do believe he did not get much if any satisfaction with the thought of raising them on his own. Proof for assumption is simple, they are dead and he killed them. So his needs and desires for his future far outweighed any affection he held for his kids so he got rid of them. Clean slate.

but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life Unable to determine as any analysis into this area would be considered victim blaming and against TOS. ***But see note below.
I totally agree with this. Shannan ruined his life. He was good when he was the "protector" of Shannan who was down trodden when he first met her. She was perfect for him. I think he sized her up incorrectly. He thought he had a passive, lost woman on his hands. A woman that would look up to him as her savior (which ironically she says herself years later). That she said this makes me think this was something they discussed between them. I could see him bringing it up ex, when I first met you our relationship was great and things were easy. You NEEDED me and were grateful for everything I did for you. Then we had the kids and everything started changing. The bankruptcy and her introduction to Thrive and success at it was clearly nothing he had signed up for. He had no desire to be "Mr Chris Kardashian". His ego is too big to handle that well.

He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness He did seem quite powerless in the relationship, but this observation should be be takes as a criticism of SW.
Because he WAS powerless. He had zero idea how to take the reins, forge on through the financial chaos that had become their lives, and turn it around. Shannan did that herself. He couldn't keep up with her even though HE attempted Thrive as well.

I'd like to make a point here that I hope is not taken incorrectly. I believe SW came from the salt and earth type of family where hard work, love, respect and responsibility was not only taught, it was lived by her parents as example...just what SW stated she wanted to do for HER girls. I have to believe that her mom and dad were horrified that SW and the kids were now in financial straits and the need to file bankruptcy to get out of it. I know if it was my daughter and she had SW past of picking up her life after divorce and doing what she had to do to purchase her own home, my first question to my kid would be WTH happened? HOW did you get yourself into this situation and in the back of their minds they believed CW was responsible for it. Whether that is true or not clearly we don't know. It does take two to tango. Whatever way it went they were living beyond their means and I don't see her family being very quiet about that. If CW happened to be aware of any words spoken or even her parents just asking WTH happened that would be a direct affront to him and he would perceive it as she was FINE on her own but gets together with CW and now her life is falling apart. Again, rightly or wrongly as it applied to the Watt's I can see him taking this very personally.

He wants to execute revenge Revenge for what? We don't know
I think his revenge was clear. He got rid of the one person that in his mind made him feel like a total failure and the kids just collateral damage. His almost "relief" he showed the day after in his interview...that was a man who was getting ready to chill out. No more pressure. He took care of it. The kids, well they just had to go because he had no desire to raise them on his own. He could justify that to himself with if she didn't treat me blah blah blah, I wouldn't have killed her and the kids would still be alive. These guys can justify anything to themselves because they can never be wrong.


*** This is what I was trying to examine in earlier threads----why did he hate her, and what was he blaming her for. But again, we can't be perceived to be blaming the victim when we discuss this, even though CW did.
He hated her simply for how she made him feel, inadequate, lazy, lacking direction, no resourcefulness and being a crappy provider to her and the kids. We have no idea what was said behind closed doors but we can assume like with any couple they their arguments. This guy has a fragile ego and even if only out of frustration she DID make a comment such as well if YOU made more money I wouldn't HAVE to be traveling around away from the kids and home. I am more then holding up my end of the deal etc etc Some off handed remark said in anger I believe could set someone like him off.

 

[nwmouse]

Honestly, I can see SW's family requesting they not attend the funeral. What was more telling to me was that CW's family was left off the obituary. Makes me wonder if they are so steadfastly defending CW and his stupid story.

I think there is such horror at what happened and both family's are in shock. Maybe his family felt so ashamed of his actions that they did not say anything in the obit so as to spare SW's family? MOO

 

[nwmouse]

AGREED.
They were probably fearful of inciting drama at the funeral, of further expanding everyone's grief.

I guarantee the Watts family is grieving too but are in an awful position right now.

I think all should take SW's brother's comment to heart and maybe back off any scrutiny of extended family.

Perhaps the Watt's attorney's have advised Chris's family not to say anything.

 

[Layla123]

Not that it matters one iota but I believe AB is incorrect about children in "small caskets" -- unless the camera angles were off while at the church alter. MOO

I went back and reround. AB says, “Two tiny caskets for two tiny sisters.” Here’s a photo.

 

[mtnlites]

From afar, CW was textbook: the love bombing, pursuing SW when she was at her weakest, all to paint himself as the caring, good guy that he WAS NOT. And unfortunately, with every doubt SW may have had, she always went back to the original encounter, the courtship, to convince herself she must be wrong. MOO

Never underestimate the power of perceived embarrassment, either. I stayed with an emotionally abusive partner for a very long time because I was too embarrassed and ashamed to leave him. I put on a really good front because I would have been mortified for people to feel sorry for me or to know how he really treated me. And, in private, I just tried that much harder with him.