WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[claptrap]

I live 2 hours west of vesper peak & the temps here won't get higher than 62 this coming week. All rain, and very little sunshine. This is pretty much how fall goes in Washington, which others living here can attest to that.

 

[ChelaKitty]

Do you think 100 people should die on the mountain to recover a body? If not, that's why these rules are in place. There will be no one left to rescue the next missing person if every dollar is spent and every human resource is exhausted on one case.

Precisely!

 

[MsFacetious]

Growing up in the mountainous part of Washington I follow most if not all of the missing hikers. The amount of effort put into finding Sam has been extraordinary. Comparing it to the search for a tax dodger or criminal is insulting to those in SAR. Those type of "searches" are electronic, and may be no more than a phone or record check once a week as every agent has tons of different cases. It's nothing at all like a 24/7 physical search for a missing hiker. How SAR works - good article. Inside the Art of Backcountry Search and Rescue

Yes, absolutely this. This search has been extraordinary. I have said several times I've been on searches for KIDS that were ended in 1/3 the time. This is an astonishingly long and thorough search. If Sam was my family member I would feel unbelievably thankful and blessed for all the help and support I had gotten.

Also, Wings of Mercy has some new info up on FB. Reading between the lines, they might not be welcome by mom and team...they said they are almost set up to start their own search, without banning anyone who wants to help, and using climbers and military.

I don't think that's it at all. The family has thanked him very recently for looking for Sam. I think he just wants to get away from the drama and focus on the mission. The family appears to still be supportive of him.

The mom mentioned someone in the search party had done damage to the search. Steve Monchak posted some of his views on Wings of Mercy publicly which many of us read. My bet is that she found out about it and was talking about him. (There could be others too. I’m sure he’s not the only one that feels this is a recovery mission) That man has given his hours, days and weeks to helping them find Sam. I don’t have words to express how much I admire his tenacity.

I hope they do set up their own search. There’s only a limited amount of time left before they all will have no choice but to go back to their regular lives. This is so sad. If she’s not careful, she is going to alienate anyone and everyone who can actually help find her daughter.

The family is still communicating with Steve. They are still liking his posts and commenting on his posts. I think Steve is walking a fine line of not outright saying he's looking for a body when talking to them. I think he is distancing himself, but I don't think the family is pushing him out.

If you look are her hiking photos on Instatram she hikes fairly lightly clothed, often just wearing a sports bra covered by a light hoodie. Though there is snow on the ground the day temps could have been in the upper 70's.

To determine the duration of a specific search, SAR teams DO pull survivability statistics (how many people die after one day, two days, etc., in similar terrain and conditions) and the decision to suspend the search is often done with the consult of someone that's an expert in wilderness medicine. Sam went out with food and water for 1 day and with only a sports bra and light jacket and a small backpack. They would have factored that in, along with any clues found before suspending an official search.

This is why I'm still STUNNED that they searched for three weeks. I'm guessing they didn't think she would have survived more than a week without some sort of indication of that. Yet they kept searching. It was remarkable.

Perhaps Sam's mom can use this tragedy (in the future) to start a movement for ALL hikers to have access to/wear GPS locators - either purchased or rented at the park they hike in. Right now her grief is clouding her reality. I do think she is at risk of a mental breakdown if Sam's body is not found soon.

This is an idea that could be worth pursuing. Turn in your state ID, take out a GPS device on your hike. Maybe?

Previous folks have commented on the uncertainty of the information provided on the cell phone pings.

I think a search of a 1.5 mile radius area around the anomalous cell phone ping be performed when they cannot go up on the mountain. It's near the trailhead from what I can discern.

When i thought about the pings it reminded me of this nuclear accident. On October 15, 1958 a criticality accident occurred at the Boris Kidrich Institute in Yugoslavia. The accident occurred because of a wrong assumption being made. There were 3 neutron detectors running during the experiment. As the reactivity of the system increased one of the detectors continued to increase. The other 2 detectors went up and levelled off like they had in previous experiments conducted that day. The researchers falsely assumed the 1 detector that kept increasing was malfunctioning and turned it off. They were wrong- the experiment went supercritical. The other 2 detectors just couldn't keep up with the neutrons being generated and leveled off when they were saturated giving a false reading. This led to 1 death and 5 others having severe radiation sickness.

How do you know that the 1 lone ping is the anomaly? Maybe the other two pings were the anomaly? It is possible that Sam took an alternate path off the mountain and got lost trying to find the trailhead in the area of the anomalous ping.

I know it doesn't apply, but this was a hell of an idea that hadn't even occurred to me!

 

[MsFacetious]

I just saw this tweet, from the Snohomish County Sheriff. A man is missing hiking near Glacier Peak. If you click the map I just posted one post above this, you can see it's to the east of Vesper Peak.

Snohomish Sheriff on Twitter

Can't find anything else on this. Was going to start a thread.

 

[MsFacetious]

WOW.

It's heartbreaking to me that so many missing people at risk of harm don't get any of this help. I know it's important to recover Sam.... but wow I wish some lives could be saved with these resources...

New Press Release

 

[Suglo]

WOW.

It's heartbreaking to me that so many missing people at risk of harm don't get any of this help. I know it's important to recover Sam.... but wow I wish some lives could be saved with these resources...

New Press Release

I’m surprised they are allowed to build that sort of a camp on the mountain. Wouldn’t they need to pull permits to place that structure? Wood burning stoves. How about latrines for all those people who plan on being there for some time? It’s already Fall up there . What do they plan on doing if it starts dumping snow in a few weeks? I wonder if they’ve cleared this with the authorities.

 

[AllGrace]

I’m surprised they are allowed to build that sort of a camp on the mountain. Wouldn’t they need to pull permits to place that structure? Wood burning stoves. How about latrines for all those people who plan on being there for some time? It’s already Fall up there . What do they plan on doing if it starts dumping snow in a few weeks? I wonder if they’ve cleared this with the authorities.

Then THEY will be trapped and require rescuing. (Sarcastic, yet somewhat serious too I guess)

 

[i'm someone]

Hopefully this will answer any of the above questions. Shared in it's entirety with permission from KD:
NEW PRESS RELEASE ATTACHED

The Mission to Find Sam Sayers Continues As Family Turns to Professional Help and Search Takes Another Turn.

After 41 days, the search for Sam Sayers, a seasoned hiker who went missing in the cascades on August 1st, is showing no signs of slowing. New Search Operation Managers are being brought in and the family is moving towards establishing a forward operating base in the mountains so operations can continue uninhibited.

Commanding Warrant Officer CW5 Kevin Dares, the father of Sam Sayers fiancé, will be flying in to oversee search operations and perform duties as Commander of the Forward Operating Base. CW5 Dares is currently the Command Chief Warrant Officer for the Louisiana National Guard and has over 35 years of military experience. A Black Hawk Pilot with extensive SAR experience, he has operated in multiple hurricanes, including Katrina. He also oversaw air search and rescues operations during the 2016 flooding of central Louisiana. With multiple deployments including Iraq, during Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Horn of Africa with Operation Enduring Freedom, CW5 Dares is expected to bring operations into a more professional and organized structure.

At the recommendation of the Jon Francis Foundation, and under Chief Dares, Carlton Carr will perform as Search Operations Manager. The family believes that with over 28 yrs of experience hiking and mountaineering in the Cascades, Carlton’s expertise will be instrumental in finding Sam. Carlton feels he was born for this. His father, Carlton Carr Sr., a SAR (Search And Rescue) leader and manager in Colorado and Utah, first enrolled him in survival school at age 11. Carlton Jr. is a Life/Eagle Scout from the Uinta District, has TCCC and wilderness first aid training, is FEMA certified, first aid certified and has managed and directed multiple private search missions including being a key first responder in the SGT. Eric Massey rescue.

Resources continue to be gathered and plans are in motion to establish an operating base within the mountains. HiLine Helicopters will be flying in canvas tents, wood burning stoves, satellite phones, communications equipment, inverter generators and more to Lake Elan so that crews can establish a permanent forward operating base.

Tim Sorenson of CRT and Drone Operations manager for the “Find Sam Sayers Team” is excited for the possibilities moving forward. He says that what they are accomplishing here is breaking new ground and drone operations have the potential to add an effective new weapon to the arsenal of SAR. With generators on site the searchers are looking to continue with the operations set forth by the Jon Francis Foundation. The generators give the teams, led by Sorenson, the ability to compile an enormous amount of footage daily that can be uploaded with remote internet connections.

The Snohomish Sheriffs Department continues to scout the mountain with helicopters for any new signs and the family would like to thank all SAR and the Snohomish Sheriff’s Department for their continued efforts and help throughout this trying time.

The search teams need qualified Mountaineers and certified HRD and Cross Trained K9 Teams who are capable of handling the terrain and environmental challenges of Vesper Peak.

To Volunteer your services and be a part of the continued mission, please contact the administrative team at
FindSamSayers.infobox@gmail.com

 

[i'm someone]

WOW.

It's heartbreaking to me that so many missing people at risk of harm don't get any of this help. I know it's important to recover Sam.... but wow I wish some lives could be saved with these resources...

New Press Release

Well, maybe this example will be the change that comes for finding missing people. There sometimes needs to be a large profile case to make changes and improve procedures. New technology and social media gives a whole new option for volunteering, and when LE has it's "hands tied" for whatever reason, private search and rescue needs to be able to get in there in an organized fashion and quickly. I have a feeling that one of the results from this case will be that a private SAR with no fear of insurance policy rules or any other red tape will be created and they can then be called in when all else has failed.

 

[moonriverfarm]

IMO, this search and these people have become obsessive, and nobody is being realistic anymore. I can empathize with Sam's loved ones. How horrible it must be to admit she is deceased. But the time and efforts of SO many people to recover a body is mind blowing. When reality finally hits, I worry for the mental state of her mom and boyfriend.

 

[tigertales]

I so hope they find her as I feel for her mother. I cannot even guess what I would do in the situation. I agree that this is a huge effort for a body recovery - sometimes we get past the point of turning back and searching becomes an obsession because maybe that is all her mom has right now.

There is such disparity in resources for finding missing individuals. Factoring socioeconomic and geographical elements, it can be so slanted in a way where one missing person can seem to get all the resources and attention and another barely gets press. I struggle with that.

This is my own opinion.

 

[sasha17]

Can't find anything else on this. Was going to start a thread.

There's a very short story here from the local news, but no name or any other details, really. https://www.heraldnet.com/news/search-under-way-for-hiker-missing-on-pacific-crest-trail/

 

[MrsLockaby]

The mom mentioned someone in the search party had done damage to the search. Steve Monchak posted some of his views on Wings of Mercy publicly which many of us read. My bet is that she found out about it and was talking about him. (There could be others too. I’m sure he’s not the only one that feels this is a recovery mission) That man has given his hours, days and weeks to helping them find Sam. I don’t have words to express how much I admire his tenacity.

I hope they do set up their own search. There’s only a limited amount of time left before they all will have no choice but to go back to their regular lives. This is so sad. If she’s not careful, she is going to alienate anyone and everyone who can actually help find her daughter.

If you look at the facebook page Steve is no longer a member of the group.

 

[AllGrace]

If you look at the facebook page Steve is no longer a member of the group.

My guess is he was banned.

However, Carlton (Bud) Carr talks about recovering her body, is that ok with mom? I am so confused about what is allowed to be said and what isn't.

 

[ElementalLaura]

Well, maybe this example will be the change that comes for finding missing people. There sometimes needs to be a large profile case to make changes and improve procedures. New technology and social media gives a whole new option for volunteering, and when LE has it's "hands tied" for whatever reason, private search and rescue needs to be able to get in there in an organized fashion and quickly. I have a feeling that one of the results from this case will be that a private SAR with no fear of insurance policy rules or any other red tape will be created and they can then be called in when all else has failed.

Thank you for your hard work reviewing footage to find signs of Sam and for your compassion for her family's situation.

I like the concept of a pro SAR team being easily deployed. I don't see how a SAR team can deploy without insurance, but perhaps the federal government could back insurance or there could be an effort to self-insure with government backing. With government support, policymakers do have to weigh the cost-benefit of subsidizing SAR vs many other uses of government funding. In this case and others, however, I'm not convinced that insurance is the main barrier. Instead, there are likely stark disagreements between how SAR pros and the family think the search efforts should be focused. What role do you think family members should play in a SAR search / deployment?

I also think that if you set up a crackerjack SAR team(s), they shouldn't wait until preliminary efforts fail. We all want the missing person to be found alive. The reason SAR pros and others know it would be a wonderful miracle if Sam were to be found alive is the standard wilderness survival Rule of 3s:

• You can survive three minutes of severe bleeding, without breathable air (unconsciousness generally occurs), or in icy water.
• You can survive three hours in a harsh environment (extreme heat or cold).
• You can survive three days without drinkable water.
• You can survive three weeks without edible food.

I'd like to see more effort to educate people before they go missing -- especially people who do love to hike, climb and spend time in wilderness and backcountry areas. They have experience and are by no means novices, but they tend to overestimate their abilities and underestimate their risk. I used to be one of those people. I was fit enough to climb mountains and backpack for two weeks at a time, but it took a few misadventures and a few wise friends to make me learn to be better prepared (and now I need better fitness to go on those adventures again!). People who choose to enter natural areas need to take more responsibility for their safety and survival.

The best SAR rescue is one that never needs to happen.

 

[zecats]

Thank you for your hard work reviewing footage to find signs of Sam and for your compassion for her family's situation.

I like the concept of a pro SAR team being easily deployed. I don't see how a SAR team can deploy without insurance, but perhaps the federal government could back insurance or there could be an effort to self-insure with government backing. With government support, policymakers do have to weigh the cost-benefit of subsidizing SAR vs many other uses of government funding. In this case and others, however, I'm not convinced that insurance is the main barrier. Instead, there are likely stark disagreements between how SAR pros and the family think the search efforts should be focused. What role do you think family members should play in a SAR search / deployment?

I also think that if you set up a crackerjack SAR team(s), they shouldn't wait until preliminary efforts fail. We all want the missing person to be found alive. The reason SAR pros and others know it would be a wonderful miracle if Sam were to be found alive is the standard wilderness survival Rule of 3s:

• You can survive three minutes of severe bleeding, without breathable air (unconsciousness generally occurs), or in icy water.
• You can survive three hours in a harsh environment (extreme heat or cold).
• You can survive three days without drinkable water.
• You can survive three weeks without edible food.

I'd like to see more effort to educate people before they go missing -- especially people who do love to hike, climb and spend time in wilderness and backcountry areas. They have experience and are by no means novices, but they tend to overestimate their abilities and underestimate their risk. I used to be one of those people. I was fit enough to climb mountains and backpack for two weeks at a time, but it took a few misadventures and a few wise friends to make me learn to be better prepared (and now I need better fitness to go on those adventures again!). People who choose to enter natural areas need to take more responsibility for their safety and survival.

The best SAR rescue is one that never needs to happen.

So many excellent points in this post. I hope those who do venture out know these rules (of 3) and consider them when deciding where to hike, how long to hike and also what might be needed if something goes wrong. Another important point is to let someone else know exactly where you are going, possible points to be explored or different routes that could be considered. Too many hikers go missing and SAR folks don’t even know where to look. Matthew Greene hiked off by himself in the Sierras somewhere unknown, alone, from Mammoth, over 5 years ago, and no one had a clue where to look for him when he disappeared. I do believe he overestimated his strengths and underestimated the dangerous possibilities, just as you stated. AND, he was an extremely experienced outdoorsman. All my own opinions here.

 

[MsFacetious]

If you look at the facebook page Steve is no longer a member of the group.

I think he just left to avoid the drama. Like I said, Steve may have left the facebook group but the family hasn't left his page.

 

[Oregonmama]

I live 2 hours west of vesper peak & the temps here won't get higher than 62 this coming week. All rain, and very little sunshine. This is pretty much how fall goes in Washington, which others living here can attest to that.

The PNW is all rain with dreary skies this week

 

[Jilly56]

I think he just left to avoid the drama. Like I said, Steve may have left the facebook group but the family hasn't left his page.

I have not seen a reply to Steve's accusations regarding Bud Carr from any family members. Steve Monchak seems to be moving forward with his own private search along with other military friends. I just hope that someone finds Sam soon and all of this will be over. I can't even imagine the despair for the family. It really has been odd watching it play out so openly and transparently, and then the attempts to control the mob they have invited into their crisis. Just an example of our new world of technology and social media. And btw, the family is still posting encouragement to share, share, share. I'm not sure if that is to fuel the ...or spark the interest of other searchers...or just for the sake of advancing the story?

 

[MsFacetious]

I have not seen a reply to Steve's accusations regarding Bud Carr from any family members. Steve Monchak seems to be moving forward with his own private search along with other military friends. I just hope that someone finds Sam soon and all of this will be over. I can't even imagine the despair for the family. It really has been odd watching it play out so openly and transparently, and then the attempts to control the mob they have invited into their crisis. Just an example of our new world of technology and social media. And btw, the family is still posting encouragement to share, share, share. I'm not sure if that is to fuel the ...or spark the interest of other searchers...or just for the sake of advancing the story?

I have not either, though I did not see him name names either. I only saw his general post about the subject on the 7th. However, the post before and after that, family both comments on and likes the post. I would think if he was banned/blacklisted they would not be doing that.

All I know is the drama would prevent me from getting involved if I was in the area. Which I don't think the family realizes is an issue.