Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[katydid23]

Marilyn Lemak murdered her kids over one affair her husband had. I've seen no evidence of multiple affairs in this case. One would be enough. JMO

I did a bit of research last night on Lemak. Apparently, she had a long history of mental health issues, most notably severe depression.

And her husband did not simply have an affair. He moved out, and began living with a nurse, from where he and his wife, both worked.

Lexmark began showing signs of severe emotional distress for a week or more before she killed the kids. There are reports from friends, co workers describing how she was falling apart emotionally and distraught. She would begin crying mid sentence and not be able to stop.

So it is hard to compare it to this case. Nothing like that was described in SW's behavior previously.


ETA:
At the October 1999 court hearing, Lemak's father said his daughter first divulged her problems to her family less than a month before the slayings. Prior to a Valentine's Day dinner not attended by her husband, Lemak broke down sobbing and acknowledged taking anti-depressants, her father testified. When he saw his daughter in the hospital after surgeons treated her self-inflicted wounds, he said her voice was weak and childlike.

Her attorneys are expected to use a number of mental-health experts to buttress their insanity defense. Dr. Arden Barnett, a psychiatrist who examined Lemak at Edward Hospital, said at the same 1999 hearing that he believed Lemak was suffering from major depression, a clinical mental-health diagnosis.

Marilyn Lemak | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers


You have also used Susan Smith as an example, to compare to SW. But if you look at her case, again, VERY DIFFERENT. Susan Smith had very traumatic childhood, filled with sexual abuse and ongoing incest. She had attempted suicide on at least 2 occasions. She had drug.alcohol problems and was pretty messed up emotionally and psychologically.

I don't think it is an apt comparison in this case. JMO

 

[cailleach]

Yesss. Especially: "If you have to make assumptions based on assumptions, this is flawed logic. The more assumptions you make, the further you tend to stray from the truth."

Well said. The "assumptions based upon assumptions" is upending these threads for hours.

I'm all ears for all kinds of theories but I'm such an evidence based person. Show me the evidence for your theory and I'll listen. But I can't seriously consider things made up out of thin air, and not wanting to doesn't automatically translate to "convicting him and throwing away the key" either. I just need evidence.

YES!! This right here!!

 

[mtnlites]

Yes, I know that but why would a chicken of all things, be processed in a nut processing plant?

It isn't chicken, a drumstick in this scenario is an ice cream with nuts.

Drumstick (frozen dairy dessert) - Wikipedia

 

[cottonweaver]

Perhaps folks aren't getting the posts they want in response to requests because the requests seem to be framed a particular way asking for those who think CW is innocent of killing the girls to explain why.

However, unless I've missed it, nobody has actually stated they do think he's innocent, just that there is a reasonable amount of doubt.

There is a difference.

So perhaps requests are being made to... nobody... Hence nobody responding? Just a thought.

I have reasonable doubt, but it's because I haven't seen enough evidence to change that yet. So it's not that I have some kind of exculpatory evidence in mind, just that I don't think the evidence thus far proves he killed the girls.

Hope that helps.

That's also my recollection flourish

IIRC Two members , way back, don't post here any more, like 14 thread ago or even longer. One was Dadvocate, second might have been Cariis, but even then I'm not sure he actually stated that.

 

[ethoma12002]

Thanks pommy mommy! Or mommy pommy! One thing I want to ask if anyone knows, how did deleting his FB keep her from posting flattering things? Was she posting them to him directly or just in general? I'm not sure I understand the whole FB thing. Before that did they both post nice things to each other? I don't understand how that would make her stop. How many months/ days before the murder did he delete his account? Was she angry because he deleted it, and that's why she stopped? Does anybody know? Sorry for all the questions but as you can see I am very curious about this. Thank you in advance for whatever opinions or facts you can give.

If they were Facebook friends, then she could "tag" him in pictures and posts. His friends (even if not friends with her) would see those posts because they would now be on his page. So, yes, if he was trying to get with someone, he would want her to stop tagging him in those lovey-dovey posts. The easiest way to do that without arising suspicion is saying "I have been using facebook to much and want to take a break." I think you still can't delete your facebook - as everyone is saying. You can de-activate it and anytime you want to start using it again, you just log in and everything comes back.

 

[Jennifer17]

It isn't chicken, a drumstick in this scenario is an ice cream with nuts.

Yes, I know.

 

[Shekkiec]

Everything in their life is being questioned. Why not this.

Thank you for your bravery coming on here . I know it must be hard bc you are still grieving . Because you know both of them I understand why the medical records of her matter. SW and C.W. are both accused of the girls . IMO many medical records could prove or disprove her honesty and possible reaction if she was diagnosed with a personality disorder . C.W. will be scrutinized the same way.

 

[katydid23]

IMO she went around til she found someone who would do it. She says that more or less on her post (“I finally found a doctor who will listen to me!”)
My son was told he needed a tonsillectomy, I got a 2nd opinion, and he did not.

I think you might be taking her one statement out of context. Did she say 'I finally found one doctor that would do the surgery that many others refused to do?'

...saying she said something 'more or less' is not very convincing supportive evidence.

Maybe she meant they listened to her about not using antibiotics, which is the usual way docs want to treat ear infections. Maybe she meant they would listen to her about them needing chiropractic treatments too?

We don't know what she meant by that.


And in your son's case, you got a 2nd opinion. Sounds like a wise thing to do. Seems like you found someone who listened to your concerns, eh?

 

[MKZoo]

CAN trigger asthma attacks. This is not always a given for those with asthma, which can be triggered by many and sometimes specific things. I was just wondering if it's specifically noted anywhere that this was a specific trigger for her.

If I recall correctly there are videos, I'm thinking of the whipped cream one, with the dog engaging and no asthma. Animals do not always trigger it. I don't recall seeing anywhere where SW, or CW for that matter, said that this was a specific trigger for her. JMO in case I need to say so

Do we know that she was allergic to the dog? I don’t remember seeing that before today. I suffer from allergy related asthma. Per my avi, I clearly have a dog. She triggers nothing. Get me near a heavily perfumed person, however, and I’m in trouble. I’m not saying it wasn’t true for Cece. I just had not heard that until it was decided that SW was bad for not re-homing their dog.

 

[cottonweaver]

YES!! This right here!!

Not this. No

we already had threads in double figures on assumptions, different kinds of assumptions.
it's what WS is - speculation when it's pre trial w virtually no docs except the affa and a few motions

 

[Shekkiec]

Because people don't normally publish the results of their medical tests. SW said, after testing, that one of the girls had a tree nut allergy. That is normally enough for most people without seeing the official result.

SW and CW both sold thrive the girls ate thrive bars according to her social media . You can google ingredients of those products some include coconut . That is what makes me skeptic .

 

[Johnny1181]

I spent 14 years with my ex and she trained me well. I knew how to cook.... that was a bonus! Haha... but keeping the house? No way! She had 3 young children we raised.

Trust me, I learned how to do housework! The result? We had a nice home, shared duties, and I can scrub floors like you wouldn't believe

That said.... she wasn't nice about it. I can still feel the dread of a Saturday when I was off and didn't do my part while she worked and the wrath (exaggerating... kinda haha) of what was going to happen if she decided to take up the cleaning/laundry that day and show me how it's done when I failed to contribute MY part to the household while she was at work. I worked F/T as well.

As domineering and controlling as she was, and believe me she was, she never EVER would have strangled her babies to death. Maybe me...(kinda serious there) but NEVER them.

 

[ethoma12002]

That's also my recollection flourish

IIRC Two members , way back, don't post here any more, like 14 thread ago or even longer. One was Dadvocate, second might have been Cariis, but even then I'm not sure he actually stated that.

I actually stopped posting for a while, too. It got too toxic in here. There are one or two people here that obviously think men are dirt and if a man can cheat, then he must also be capable of a triple-murder. I try to see both sides but it was getting difficult to have a minority opinion in here.

 

[ACE422]

I'm analyzing based on evidence like this.....

Most humans want to know WHY this happened. We cannot analyze SW's behavior "after the fact" like we can CW's behavior. All we have to go on are the videos and testimonials by those who knew them to help us understand why this horrific tragedy might have occurred. And those are all biased or give a "selective view" of how things were in their relationships and lives.
They are relevant, nonetheless, and will likely be pertinent pieces of information in the trial.

 

[cailleach]

Not this. No

we already had threads in double figures on assumptions, different kinds of assumptions.
it's what WS is - speculation when it's pre trial w virtually no docs except the affa and a few motions

LOL Yes, but we're all wired differently in what speaks to us as a reasonable theory. Some of us like to have some facts to support a theory. Of course, everyone will continue doing what they do...

 

[cottonweaver]

Also want to add that depression and chronic illness go hand in hand, as well as pain and stress. Jmo

Indeed and as per the video I bumped up a while ago, SW herself explains at great length the sequence of events, her illness, diagnoses, her ex, her "awful" marriage, breakdown of many friendships, leaving college, why she didn't return to college.
It's a fairly full account, available to all.

 

[Colorado303]

There is this narrative, that seems to have taken on a life of its own, that Shannan could have been involved in killing her kids. I feel dirty typing this, because I think the facts speak for themselves. But what would you say to these people who think that this is a possibility?

Having known her, I don’t think that’s possible but I’m sure people who know CW may feel the same way. If I hadn’t known anyone involved in the case the evidence we’re aware of would lead me to believe CW killed all three. I previously posted what specifically makes me say that — once I catch up I’ll try to find those posts and copy them or just write a new one.

 

[tara83]

I actually stopped posting for a while, too. It got too toxic in here. There are one or two people here that obviously think men are dirt and if a man can cheat, then he must also be capable of a triple-murder. I try to see both sides but it was getting difficult to have a minority opinion in here.

Well he clearly murdered one person.

 

[MyBelle]

A doctor ordered surgical procedures and a surgeon performed surgery on two young children. Do you think they did so without proper medical diagnosis?

I haven't seen any proof either child had serious illnesses or serious surgical procedures. I have seen on SM the exploitation of those children--sometimes crying and scared--in order to promote a product that had absolutely nothing to do with their health. JMO

 

[stereopticons]

And depressive episodes can absolutely exacerbate symptoms and pain.

And the opposite can also be true! Chronic pain/illness and depressive symptoms are interlinked

 

[MassGuy]

Having known her, I don’t think that’s possible but I’m sure people who know CW may feel the same way. If I hadn’t known anyone involved in the case the evidence we’re aware of would lead me to believe CW killed all three. I previously posted what specifically makes me say that — once I catch up I’ll try to find those posts and copy them or just write a new one.

That’s fine, people can always search your posts. Thanks for the response!