Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #28

[cottonweaver]

Went back to the affidavit and is ambiguous about the cell phone as to who actually located it whether it was LE, NU or CW because it doesn't state in the affidavit who actually found it just that it was located in that area described as loft area couch between two cushions. It also states in affidavit that Det Baumhover, the officer who arrived at 2:35 pm after Officer Coonrod had arrived 55 minutes earlier. It states that SW cell phone was in the loft area and that Det Baumhover learned LATER that the cell phone was found between two cushions on loft sofa. So I assume whomever found SW's cell phone if it wasn't Officer Coonrod, alerted the officer and then the cell phone was placed somewhere in the loft area for further inspection. When Det Baumhover arrived he was briefed at some point about the cell phone's location but I get the impression based on the affidavit that Det Baumhover did not learn of the cell phone's discovery location until LATER. How much later? Maybe means nothing but it is curious as to who found SW's cell phone presumably NU, CW and LE were looking through the home all at the same time. Further, why did the detective find out LATER where the cell phone was discovered?

https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/document/2018/08/20/arrest affidavit chris watts_95256653_ver1.0.pdf?_ga=2.259550466.968662190.1537323071-1351606201.1534867774

yes, you've encouraged me to look at it again
It's so hard to judge, because of where it's referred to in the sequence within the affadavit.

 

[Silver~Bell]

We do know he is guilty of killing his pregnant wife and putting the bodies in #crude oil bc he has confessed to that . The motion about the may be prints on trash bags even stated the defendant won’t testify to bc it was relative to “collection evidence “ this was stated on second page of motion . The reason we have the information is his confession . I think the interview does indicate anxiety , deceit , stress, disbelief ,shock . We know he was not telling the truth during that interview bc now we have a confession as well . What is unclear is how to convict someone because you only believe 98% of the confession.

Interesting. I'm wondering if 98% is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Is that 2% small enough so that the 98% is beyond a reasonable doubt? Just wondering.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

@cottonweaver

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I

it Was in my knowledge off the hairdresser interview friends with SW she knew divorce (separation) was impending . Imo she knew that but not about the affair so that caused her anger moo . Why kill them if you are moving on with someone else that is ridiculous to me? Imo no life insurance motive either . She was losing more than he would . She would lose financial stability , insurance on herself , part of her business if he was recruited under her , her house . She could have been desperate

Good points @Shekkiec. Also according to NU, SW had only "speculation" of an affair. As well, SW did not think CW "had game" so if CW did come clean once and for all with SW that morning and telling her he wanted a separation or divorce, that would have hit SW very hard because speculation and definitely knowing something to be true are two very different matters.

 

[Deleted member 134862]

Reasonable minds agree or disagree with you, although one of our VI attorneys (the master G) has said there was no indication of verbal or emotional abuse (in the legal sense) on them. What we do know, however, is that a man claiming to be witnessing at least one child's active strangulation failed to call 911 to try and save her. At all. Period. He just bundles the dead children up and dumps them in separate tanks of crude oil within the hour, according to his own confession. What does that say about his view of his children?

That this is only bad is CeCe's little toes were reaching toward the opening to the tank? Otherwise, eh. No biggie? (Just trying to follow the current line of thinking)

 

[Pally]

Yeah, his appearance was shocking. If he had 10 hours sleep, and had just come back from a health spa, he couldn’t have looked more fresh and put together.

With all he had done, he probably looked the same as he normally did.

Pretty chilling.

Exactly, or better!
But to contradict myself, there are times when I'm on 'full power' mode and have to get things done.
I wake up in the morning, very pleased with how the house looks from my work the night before. Then realise I don't know where anything is now
I'm like the Tasmanian Devil.
I still never look so refreshed in the morning though.

 

[WildWest]

Thank you, really appreciate you checking!

Some thoughts, no evidence. Up there "Animal Control" is separate from Law enforcement, unless it's a very rural area, in those cases a sheriff can step in but usually not unless it's a critical call. All the pastures and previous farms when it was rural back then now have houses and neighborhoods on them so it's quite possible and ACO (Animal Control Officer) answered the dog welfare call, if there was one, and MOO the call was made, I think I recall it being on the news in the early days when they were missing. That said, they are soooooo close to Boulder County compared to the Weld shelter, it's possible even another county was called. *if* the call was made it could be to several places, not just the Frederick police or Weld LE. I've never known ACO blotters to be published.

 

[Alethea]

Here is one thing that really stands out to me, about what is wrong with CW's supposed 'reasoning.'

His defenders say, when asked why CW didn't just call 911 after he had to try to stop his wife from killing the children-----" He didn't think the police would believe him."

Ok, fine.

So instead of calling them and having them look at the evidence, of what she had allegedly done, which should have cleared him....Instead---

...He disposed of the bodies, in such a way that it will likely negate mitigating evidence, and he comes up with an even more ridiculous story to try and sell to the police...

He decides to tell them that his wife and girls just took off after an 'emotional conversation' --without the car or the kids meds, and without telling anybody else where they were going...


Why would he choose to cover up the truth, which could be corroborated by physical evidence, in order to try and sell them a lie, that had no supportive evidence at all?

Yes!! It's a typical sociopathic murderer thing to do: I couldn't just call LE, they wouldn't believe me. It paints the murderer as this sophisticated brainiac who just wouldn't be understood by the tiny-brained police and prosecutors.

Police and prosecutors are not stupid! They see true accidents happen all the time. They understand that not everything is a crime. Most calls that come to LE do not result in criminal charges being brought. No prosecutor wants to bring a case with no evidence so the state loses.

Nothing good happens from a cover-up. Martha Stewart didn't go to jail for insider trading, she went to jail for lying to an FBI agent. Never in my career have I seen anyone help themselves by lying and covering up a questionable act. The one thing I have learned in white collar crime is you're never as smart as you think you are.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I see it differently. She did it before by herself. When they started dating she owned her own home. She would be able to stay at the home IMO and would get child support for all 3 kids even if they had 50/50 custody. He would most likely be the one to leave the house and still need to be paying some of the bills. I feel with her personality she could have gotten a decent 9-5 job that offered insurance. She has been through a divorce before. We are all different though so you just really never know. MOO

I can see your point Davia18 that logistically SW could manage without CW but we have to consider the emotional reaction to being told by your spouse that you no longer want to be married to that person and someone else is the person you want to be with. I would think in that moment, a person wouldn't be thinking primarily about logical practicalities but the emotional repercussions of a divorce.

 

[Deleted member 134862]

Imo I think SW knew about the separation . She had told family and friends in NC this as well. According to VI she knew and according to hairdresser (a family friend) they knew . She had dropped hints to Thayer but still didn’t believe he would leave bc he had no game . I believe that statement shows her feeling superior and in control. I believe the SM posts of herself stating he was the calm one she was the nice one were true . I am discerned by the multiple videos of her being excessively insultful , not ribbing to him when he was around . She would post fake nice perfect post for media but could not control her true feelings. When she went to NC she felt she had the upper hand with pregnancy and kids. She maybe purposely reacted overly accusing her MIL Of peanuts to gain sympathy from him. She had never posted anything of that nature before . I believe she was thinking he would not go through with it . She left NC (no intention of wanting to stay there ) and possibly he told her or she found about affair . She had been through a bad divorce and lost everything before . She knew with financial problems she could lose house , possible her car if she couldn’t pay for lease and insurance . You see He was recruited by her . If he left her and the company how would that effect her pay scale . Would those under his name still benefit her? The idea of being pregnant alone is terrifying for anyone . She may have threatened to take kids and he told her she couldn’t do that . You see in Colorado the affair does not matter in divorce . Her works was falling apart . She wanted to hurt him by taking what he said she couldn’t do . So she could have strangled the girls JMO

Except she did not lose everything in the first divorce. She owned a home. She would not lose the second house. He would be required to make payments on it till the divorce where the proceeds would be split because she was on the deed. She would likely get Temporary Custody because what would he do? Quit his job and watch the kids? Pay sitters who would cost more? As far as selling Thrive...do you really think he was lucratively selling for her with that winning personality and virtually no one coming out in support of him now?

An affair would not matter here in Colorado, but his situation had him at a disadvantage both financially and with custody arrangements. She had a family who was going to support her. She did have the upper hand.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Went back to the affidavit and is ambiguous about the cell phone as to who actually located it whether it was LE, NU or CW because it doesn't state in the affidavit who actually found it just that it was located in that area described as loft area couch between two cushions. It also states in affidavit that Det Baumhover, the officer who arrived at 2:35 pm after Officer Coonrod had arrived 55 minutes earlier. It states that SW cell phone was in the loft area and that Det Baumhover learned LATER that the cell phone was found between two cushions on loft sofa. So I assume whomever found SW's cell phone if it wasn't Officer Coonrod, alerted the officer and then the cell phone was placed somewhere in the loft area for further inspection. When Det Baumhover arrived he was briefed at some point about the cell phone's location but I get the impression based on the affidavit that Det Baumhover did not learn of the cell phone's discovery location until LATER. How much later? Maybe means nothing but it is curious as to who found SW's cell phone presumably NU, CW and LE were looking through the home all at the same time. Further, why did the detective find out LATER where the cell phone was discovered?

https://mediaassets.thedenverchannel.com/document/2018/08/20/arrest affidavit chris watts_95256653_ver1.0.pdf?_ga=2.259550466.968662190.1537323071-1351606201.1534867774

I wonder if she still had it in Airplane Mode from the flight. Probably not. Most people turn their phones on in-flight when allowed. Because that'd mute calls to it.

 

[MassGuy]

FINALLY

AB is addressing Katie’s Law, which requires DNA and prints, upon booking for felony murder.

She was perplexed (or faking it), as to why the prosecution would ask for something that should have already been done.

The expert that she had on, theorized that these motions are being done out of “an abundance of caution,” in an effort to circumvent any Constitutional issues brought up by the defense in regards to “Katie’s Law.”

They are just being super careful, and those samples were likely taken when they should have been (at booking).

 

[book-thinker]

I find it disturbing when a murder victim is being unfairly maligned as an abusive parent/spouse, while giving a proven liar and murderer the benefit of the doubt.

IF CW had called 911 AND tried to save the girls, I would strongly consider whether he was actually innocent of killing his girls. Even though I'm not personally giving much (if any) consideration to the infinitesimally small chance that CW is telling the truth, I'm cool with those who want to explore that possibility.

Obviously, the jury will see all the evidence and consider this unprecedented series of events to decide whether CW is telling the truth.

We are all eventually going to know for certain who really killed those girls, but somehow I don't think that will stop the criticism of SW and looking to her for what triggered it all rather than focusing on who was solely responsible and did it for his own selfish reasons. JMO

I too watched, the Xmas santa video, and stated my opinion. I'm leaning toward CW solely responsible . However,
understanding the psychological family dynamics is important. What was CW mindset that weekend, leading up
to the murders. What type resentment did CW have? Watching video he seems like mild manner individual,
possible rage was building up for some time. jmo

 

[Ur728]

FINALLY

AB is addressing Katie’s Law, which requires DNA and prints, upon booking for felony murder.

She was perplexed (or faking it), as to why the prosecution would ask for something that should have already been done.

The expert that she had on, theorized that these motions are being done out of “an abundance of caution,” in an effort to circumvent any Constitutional issues brought up by the defense in regards to “Katie’s Law.”

They are just being super careful, and those samples were likely taken as they should have been.

I think a lot of what they are doing is out of cautiousness. Making sure they cross all the T's and dot all the I's

 

[Whiteorchids]

Someone remarked earlier (I apologize for not remembering who) that calling it or using Find my iPhone or what have you would have left an electronic trail that he tried to do those things. It would look strange if he was calling or pinging his wife's phone between 4-5 am when according to his first story everything was just hunky dory.

That was me and good point

 

[Nudgee]

I'm watching AB.... Livermortis.... this just gets more bizarre....

 

[Ur728]

I too watched, the Xmas santa video, and stated my opinion. I'm leaning toward CW solely responsible . However,
understanding the psychological family dynamics is important. What was CW mindset that weekend, leading up
to the murders. What type resentment did CW have? Watching video he seems like mild manner individual,
possible rage was building up for some time. jmo

IA. When someone is quiet and doesn't speak up a lot of times I feel like it's just a volcano waiting to erupt. JMO

 

[MJPeony]

And why would he want to protect her reputation? He has told his family that she is controlling and verbally abusive and possibly more.

He told his family that? I missed that article, could you please provide a link?

The VI stated it.

<modsnipped unnecessary comment>

Jennifer, are you referring to the VI Trinket? Or one of the others?

B/c I don't believe Trinket has said that. I've searched back through his/her posts and what I've found that Trinket said is:

"He was verbally abused from the beginning. I remember meeting them and she told anyone who would listen she couldn’t believe she went on a date with him because of the way he was dressed. He looked like a “skater boy”... she almost didn’t continue the date because of that. All this was said in front of him. He had new clothes shortly after."

This is different to me than a VI stating that CW had told his family SW was controlling and verbally abusive and possibly more. IMO, Trinket said *Trinket* thought CW was verbally abused based on what Trinket saw. Which means CW could have either felt he was verbally abused or perhaps not. Or even if he did, he didn't necessarily tell his family all of that.

Just wanting to clear up fact from speculation. But @Trinket78 may want to weigh in on their own. (No idea if I'm "tagging" posters correctly with that @ symbol)

JMO.

ETA hopefully the right user names.
E(again)TA: I don't think I tagged Trinket78 correctly... it's shooting me to another trinket user. Anyway, maybe you'll read this Trinket78!
E(3rd time)TA: I fixed it... I got the right Trinket tagged...

 

[Sark06]

My kids could be in full rigor mortis, and I still wouldn’t give up.

And I bet there would be nothing on earth that could hide the magnitude of your despair and grief?

 

[BeanieBod]

All of that is going to change the face of police investigations, and procedures and rules of evidence will have to evolve, too, so that the evidence is useable but can also be tested and challenged for authenticity. It's really scary what can be done with video editing these days, not just photoshop for still pictures anymore. Savvy editors can make it appear that people are doing or saying things they never did or said.

Bill, you are absolutely correct. Heck, back in the day, they tried editing tapes from the reel-to-reel tape recorders. And even Nixon could not get it done right.

I certainly hope that some legal minds are already working on this. I can see trials being held up while the experts work on it.

 

[cottonweaver]

Someone remarked earlier (I apologize for not remembering who) that calling it or using Find my iPhone or what have you would have left an electronic trail that he tried to do those things. It would look strange if he was calling or pinging his wife's phone between 4-5 am when according to his first story everything was just hunky dory.

It was me. Was thinking out loud for a scenario where LE, NUA& CW are still all in the house and trying to find her phone. ie around 2pm Tuesday, not 4-5am... then they find it in the cushions

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #28
side note:
I always got the impression that NUA was very resourceful* so speculated she could have gone on the app, whilst still in the house.

( *got her son to climb on the bumper to see inside, realised the logic of the car seats meaning SW couldn't have left w kids etc)