Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #28

[Johnny1181]

Finally! Defence's responses are up...
Colorado Judicial Branch

ETA: Defence don't yet have coroner's report

Thank you for this! Can any legal experts weigh in to why the defense attorneys have not received the coroner's report yet?

 

[PommyMommy]

I believe that the murders were premeditated and proof of that is; there was structure that crumbled. It wasn't chaos from the beginning! What if SW's flight had been on time? Would CW have gone to the site 3 hours earlier when the neighborhood was asleep (not knowing about cameras or thinking they were off)? Would he have had the time to deal with SW's body? Would he have remembered/seen the sheet? Were the oil tanks his original plan? What if NAU hadn't shown up, but had only called CW. Had not been persistent? Would he then have had more time to organize and clean up? Pull himself together?

Two unforeseen factors changed everything! CW obviously is abnormal and the changes probably greatly affected his actions. Could CW have thought everything was perfectly planned? Did he relax, grill a steak, start to follow a timetable that was abruptly changed? Did he make mistakes from the beginning or did he begin to make mistakes when his plans were disrupted?

I agree that there are some things that point toward planned, premeditated murder, although the dots are not entirely connected just yet (for me, anyway). A few of those are:

• He deleted his FB account approx a week prior.
• He was distant - not hugging and kissing his wife as usual.
• He wasn't treating the girls like he used to.
• He was having an affair with a co-worker.

MOO

 

[Thepoet]

I agree that his plan went awry, but a well planned plot coming off the tracks, isn’t proof that it was well planned to begin with.

It’s absolutely possible that you’re right, and this was entirely premeditated. When things didn’t go according to plan, the appearance of the crime would be an ill conceived one.

But here’s an alternate scenario, one that I think is almost as likely:

CW has thought about killing his family before, even thinking about the process he would undertake to dispose of them.

The night in question, CW and Shanann have an explosive argument. During the course of the fight, his rage gets the better of him and he kills his wife.

At this point, he decides to go the distance, and carry out the plan that he has previously envisioned.

So I think two things are likely. This was entirely premeditated, or it was a bit of a mixture.

It could well be a mixture. The problem I have with rage is; rage usually leads to blow and defense and these leave evidence like blood splatter, wounds (defensive and offensive), broken furniture. etc., and detritus. None of that appears to exist.

 

[?mysterian?]

Thank you for this! Can any legal experts weigh in to why the defense attorneys have not received the coroner's report yet?

I'm not a legal expert, but perhaps autopsies aren't finalized yet because they're waiting on toxicology results, which can take several weeks, IIRC.

 

[Thepoet]

I agree that there are some things that point toward planned, premeditated murder, although the dots are not entirely connected just yet (for me, anyway). A few of those are:

• He deleted his FB account approx a week prior.
• He was distant - not hugging and kissing his wife as usual.
• He wasn't treating the girls like he used to.
• He was having an affair with a co-worker.

MOO

Excellent points. Kudos. We also don't know how his brain sees/orders things.

 

[rainynights]

I am still wondering if CW had one or maybe two victims in the back seat when he was contacted by NU at 12 pm. It could explain why CW did not get back to their home until after the first officer was dispatched at 1:40 pm. That is a huge gap in time imo that CW has not accounted for in the affidavit.

Hmmm . . . interesting point. Are you saying that SW was buried, and with the sun coming up and work to report to, he didn't have enough time to bury the children?

So he concealed them in the truck with plans to bury them later, but mid-day with NUA on his tail, he was left with no other option but . . . the tanks?

Very interesting, and you could definitely be on to something there. Incredibly risky on CW's part, but possible. IMO, CW would have been willing to do anything at that point to avoid being caught, so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[gitana1]

Yep. Just because the corners of the mouth are pointing up, that doesn't mean it is a smile.

Lol!

But it's his eyes that matter, right? Well, apparently, yes. So let's look at his eyes, compared to the eyes of a person giving a genuine smile and being manipulated to smile by muscles stimulators:

Identifying a genuine smile - EIA Group (UK)

Compared with his supposed "non-smile" on the porch.

His eyes are appropriately squinting and not rounded and un-moving.

He frankly looks just like one of my brothers when my brother is giving a sheepish smile.

 

[Alethea]

So what is your theory on why she has been solely blamed for things when her husband was fully involved in them too?
Why has she been blamed and people suggesting she has a mental illness for taking her children to the doctors too much?

I have been nodding along with @gitana1's posts on the subject. I think psychologically people want to find something to blame for what happened. Otherwise, it looks like any of us who are relatively happy in our homes could wake up one day a victim. We're sold the idea that if we just had a little more money or just were a little more beautiful everything would be perfect. So to find out people who seem to "have it all" can meet such a gruesome fate is jarring to us and psychologically we "need" an answer or our whole worldview can crumble. We need to find some way to separate "us" from "them" even there really is nothing there.

 

[nwmouse]

I think it is a really interesting question. I don’t know how often or what type of case in CO would warrant sequestration. I’d guess this would be one but who knows.

It certainly protects the jury from being bothered by friends and the media about the case. It guards against them hearing the latest “bombshell tonight”. Those are probably good things.

From the practical perspective it’s expensive for the state and very tough on jurors.

I’d be interested in what our trial lawyers think about it. Does a sequestered jury in a case like this end up just wanting a fast verdict because they want to be done with it? That’s always my concern either way.

Would like to here from our trial lawyers.
-I've also wondered if the sequestered jury would want a speedy verdict so they could get on with their lives?
-I wonder what the average cost of a sequestered jury is?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So what is your theory on why she has been solely blamed for things when her husband was fully involved in them too?
Why has she been blamed and people suggesting she has a mental illness for taking her children to the doctors too much?

People are saying that based on their own opinions and observations from her videos. However, I haven’t engaged in those conversations, so I can’t speak for others. jmo

 

[Lady Justice21]

There's also this aspect I feel, that I posted about previously, which is kind of anger and resentment at people who use social media, who post about their perfect lives which cause others to feel badly about their own. That bad feeling can actually go as far as depression:

"The irony of Facebook is by now known to most. The “social” network has been linked to a surprising number of undesirable mental health consequences: Depression, low self-esteem, and bitter jealousy among them.."
New Study Links Facebook To Depression: But Now We Actually Understand Why.

I can't forget the actual male friend of Shanann who early on made a statement to the media that her life on social media was so perfect that he "had to block her" . Which I continue to think is quite bizarre but indicates the level of jealousy and rage people have at those who are excessively positive and post wonderful things on FB. (I mean just get off social media or unfollow the person).

That coupled with societal attitudes about femininity -what a good mother looks like, what a good wife looks like - I think combine to cause harsh criticism of a dead woman.

In addition when horrific cases happen people often look for a why. (Not necessarily motive if I'm making sense) IMO sometimes it's to make sense of the senseless, sometimes it's to reassure oneself it couldn't happen to "me". For example if I have/had a partner that reminds me of CW I may point out how SW is different than me to reassure myself I'm safe. OR if I see myself in SW I may point out how different CW is to reassure myself I'm safe. If I can't relate to either very well Ill likely pick the one that least fits the people I relate to best. (I'm using the proverbial "I" above for clarification in my post).

IMO I've found the why for so many becomes almost a desperate search. As in, if I can figure out why it can't happen to me. The unfortunate reality is we likely won't ever really know why.

All my humble opinion.

 

[gitana1]

I asked this before... what does everyone think the chance is of the jury being sequestered?

I hope slim. Most jurisdictions have seemed to learn form the casey anthony disaster. But we shall see.

 

[Thepoet]

I'm not a legal expert, but perhaps autopsies aren't finalized yet because they're waiting on toxicology results, which can take several weeks, IIRC.

My step-daughter passed, at age 37, less than two (2) years ago. It was unexpected, but natural causes (we found her) and it took almost a month for the autopsy results. That was a horribly long time to wait for confirmation that it was natural! So, yes it can take awhile including, tox results'

 

[Harmony 2]

Thread #29 is open for posting.

Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #29

This thread is now closed.