On G.G.'s Facebook it is clear (well almost) that the artist Paul Robert is also Gypsy the street musician who someone suggested knew who Jean/John/Jaan was. Someone asks her do you still keep in touch. So they knew each other during the Reet days in Montreal it seems. Some of the difficulty understanding these few facts can come from media errors who knows.....but on the face of it the G.G. testimony is elusive contradictory and strange IMO
Identified! CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Don't worry I will give this case a rest soon to settle in my mind.
1. The landlord of the building Reet lived in LA is dead and records of his tenants are gone. So why does w5 say Reet moved in with Jean? How do they know that? In her postcard to her sister she mentions neither Tonu or Jean it sounds like she has found an apartment of her own. I wonder if it rented by the month or week? I am guessing the postcard to her friend Green is no longer extant (?) but note it seems to repeat the info of the other card as Green describes it.
2. What is the proof that Jean even exists? Could be he to use the movie term a mcguffin? Lots seems to come from G.Green. The boyfriend from when she was 18 in Toronto W5 talks about is not Jean. G. Green says Reet took methadone I am not sure I believe her. The story of bumping into the mutual' friend who says he lived with Reet and Jean is weird since LAPD only seem to have a sketch of him and a possible name (as well) of Jean. The artist and G. Green seem to go back to the time of Reet..... so they could have collaborated on what Jean looked at before they met the police.
1. The landlord of the building Reet lived in LA is dead and records of his tenants are gone. So why does w5 say Reet moved in with Jean? How do they know that? In her postcard to her sister she mentions neither Tonu or Jean it sounds like she has found an apartment of her own. I wonder if it rented by the month or week? I am guessing the postcard to her friend Green is no longer extant (?) but note it seems to repeat the info of the other card as Green describes it.
2. What is the proof that Jean even exists? Could be he to use the movie term a mcguffin? Lots seems to come from G.Green. The boyfriend from when she was 18 in Toronto W5 talks about is not Jean. G. Green says Reet took methadone I am not sure I believe her. The story of bumping into the mutual' friend who says he lived with Reet and Jean is weird since LAPD only seem to have a sketch of him and a possible name (as well) of Jean. The artist and G. Green seem to go back to the time of Reet..... so they could have collaborated on what Jean looked at before they met the police.
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Google The Op/The Image Park Avenue for pics of the Image Cafe Montreal. These are from the Montreal magazine Coolopolis they are accepting tips on the case. The Image apparently was shortlived in 1968. There are some interesting comments below including by author Ann Diamond. The comments emphasize it was a flower power/drug culture/biker scene with interestingly someone claiming the owner had an affiliation with the Process Church who were also present in Toronto and some say influenced Manson philosophically.
In another article in that magazine they say Paul Robert made the sketch of Jean 2 from recollections of Gilda Green who saw this Jean just once at The Image was around 5 foot 6. . He barely spoke English. Another image of a possible Jean someone sent them looks to me like the Toronto boyfriend at 1006 of the W5 film but this Jean was 6 2. What is strange is that the sketch looks quite a bit like Tex Watson but that would need the height of the second tip since Tex Watson was 6 foot 2. Google Reet Jurvetson A possible Lead for that photo
Reet's grew up at 4534 Royal Avenue in Montreal according to the magazine and attended the Estonian Church on Marcil Avenue. Someone points out the age of majority was 21 before 1972 so the part in the W5 film where G. Green says Reet could do what she wanted now due to her age is not quite correct.
In another article in that magazine they say Paul Robert made the sketch of Jean 2 from recollections of Gilda Green who saw this Jean just once at The Image was around 5 foot 6. . He barely spoke English. Another image of a possible Jean someone sent them looks to me like the Toronto boyfriend at 1006 of the W5 film but this Jean was 6 2. What is strange is that the sketch looks quite a bit like Tex Watson but that would need the height of the second tip since Tex Watson was 6 foot 2. Google Reet Jurvetson A possible Lead for that photo
Reet's grew up at 4534 Royal Avenue in Montreal according to the magazine and attended the Estonian Church on Marcil Avenue. Someone points out the age of majority was 21 before 1972 so the part in the W5 film where G. Green says Reet could do what she wanted now due to her age is not quite correct.
Never heard of them before, documentary about '' The Process" was released just a few year ago..
VIDEO TRAILER.
SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL: THE TRUE STORY OF THE PROCESS CHURCH OF THE FINAL JUDGMENT « The Royal Cinema
"In the late sixties and early seventies, a mysterious black-cloaked tribe wandered the streets of Toronto and several other North American cities, provoking and terrifying passers-by with their doomsday predictions and strange proclamations of a unity between Christ and Satan".
VIDEO TRAILER.
SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL: THE TRUE STORY OF THE PROCESS CHURCH OF THE FINAL JUDGMENT « The Royal Cinema
"In the late sixties and early seventies, a mysterious black-cloaked tribe wandered the streets of Toronto and several other North American cities, provoking and terrifying passers-by with their doomsday predictions and strange proclamations of a unity between Christ and Satan".
At the end of the W5 film Reet Jurvetson's sister meets the retired det. from LA in Old Montreal. She says she never expected that she had been murdered had never considered it. Fair enough. But how could the family not be concerned that she had gotten into a car accident, been hit by a car was in a coma, anything. In my experience people called around to hospitals back then even when someone was missing for a day or two. Routine. Now I understand Reet was travelling so there would be a bigger gap before you started to worry. I wish I understood the timeline of when they started to look for Reet a bit i.e. Tonu sending someone by the apt., the detective. Why would the detective not put an ad in the paper or check the list of unidentified dead? Note even in LA Reet was only Jane Doe 059. And most of those would be much older cases . There would only be a few people to consider at most in fact she could have been the only case the fit that tight timeline.
Her brother was dead by the time she was found. No comment at all on Reet by Reet's sister in law in posts from that time just the usual self boosterism typical of Facebook. Much on family being proud of Steve, his new child.....the overall family attitude to Reet is bizarre. I realize the wife would not be close and may never have met her.....but most people would think of their partner, Reet's brother and muse how important it would have been for him to know about his sister's disappearance....I mean if what sister Ann claims is true how loved she was etc.
There is the claim they are a private family etc. but they don't seem so private when they are showing off their achievements to the world........and they do have a lot to be proud of.....but there is a paradox somewhere in this......
Why did she run away at 16??
Her brother was dead by the time she was found. No comment at all on Reet by Reet's sister in law in posts from that time just the usual self boosterism typical of Facebook. Much on family being proud of Steve, his new child.....the overall family attitude to Reet is bizarre. I realize the wife would not be close and may never have met her.....but most people would think of their partner, Reet's brother and muse how important it would have been for him to know about his sister's disappearance....I mean if what sister Ann claims is true how loved she was etc.
There is the claim they are a private family etc. but they don't seem so private when they are showing off their achievements to the world........and they do have a lot to be proud of.....but there is a paradox somewhere in this......
Why did she run away at 16??
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Did Reet die in her own clothes or was she redressed? Look at all other photos of her - she dresses beautifully, everything fits perfectly, all her clothes are tasteful probably expensive and 'feminine'. The jacket, the top, the jeans, none of them seem to fit her properly. I agree with I think G.G. that those composites are terribly done but I wonder if one reason she was put off by them are the clothes. Also there is a lot of blood on her hands in the limited photos W5 shows us of her body I do not see much blood on her clothes. Would that be possible? If the killer was on top of her stabbing as they think he was surely he would transfer blood to her lower body and she would also have bled a lot. Then they say they put her in a sitting position in the car (why would they do that) possibly more blood would transfer. The other clue might be that bra - with the top and jean she is seen wearing in the composite I would if a woman would bother to wear one with those clothes at that time. Also why is there almost no blood on her bra? Compare pics of the Manson family victims not that I want to ruin anyone's day......but there is blood everywhere. However they obviously didn't clean off the blood from her hands for example. All strange.
Why did nobody in LAPD previously find that bra in the files that should have contained only paper files? Or had nobody opened that file previously since the initial investigation?
Why did nobody in LAPD previously find that bra in the files that should have contained only paper files? Or had nobody opened that file previously since the initial investigation?
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If I am right about the fact there should be more blood on the clothes then the bra with the tiny bit of blood being in the wrong evidence file is an ominous mystery. I am glad it was there to solve the case but it it seems strange no?
My query about her being coerced to write the card makes on sense - nobody holding her would allow her to write in Estonian unless they were Estonian.
Scenes in W5 showing her body where found. 1. Her hand is clutching something possibly grass or branch matter weeds? Was her body in a state of rigor mortis when found? To state the obvious she cannot be grasping the organic material around her as she was certainly already dead when dumped there. (at least 1 carotid artery severed so she had to be dead alread). Would seemed to suggest she was killed outside?
4:41 there is a piece of leather hanging down along her top and then into the jeans. Is she wearing a leather necklace (popular then usually with a stone at the bottom). Look at the ill fitting clothes at this point.
9"48 could this be Jean (a much more dour representation than the drawings LE put out)....think of Robert's comment his face was coming out of the shadows.....
11:49 stab wounds to the rear of her body.....numbered 8, 9 etc......does this mean she was stabbed in the back first....not sure how they number these.....I assume there is a front illustration as well showing the wounds to the neck.....17:22 I cant see any holes from knife to the jacket can anyone?
17:29 I don't see any stab wounds to her neck let alone over 100 the coroner thought at first it was one gaping one......so they penciled that out? I heard they may have penciled in her eyes because they were closed.....can someone explain the post mortem photo showing her neck?
sister says twice murdered or killed.......something about that bothers me.....
2248 commentators says friends and family were unanimous as where to look i.e. Jean....but in another interview with Quebec media sister Ann says she had never heard of Jean. Her brother is in Arizona. That leaves just Mom and Dad and of course friends......
G. Green and I. S. her friends both use the same word smitten
2558 check out photo of Paul Robert when young what do you think
Scenes in W5 showing her body where found. 1. Her hand is clutching something possibly grass or branch matter weeds? Was her body in a state of rigor mortis when found? To state the obvious she cannot be grasping the organic material around her as she was certainly already dead when dumped there. (at least 1 carotid artery severed so she had to be dead alread). Would seemed to suggest she was killed outside?
4:41 there is a piece of leather hanging down along her top and then into the jeans. Is she wearing a leather necklace (popular then usually with a stone at the bottom). Look at the ill fitting clothes at this point.
9"48 could this be Jean (a much more dour representation than the drawings LE put out)....think of Robert's comment his face was coming out of the shadows.....
11:49 stab wounds to the rear of her body.....numbered 8, 9 etc......does this mean she was stabbed in the back first....not sure how they number these.....I assume there is a front illustration as well showing the wounds to the neck.....17:22 I cant see any holes from knife to the jacket can anyone?
17:29 I don't see any stab wounds to her neck let alone over 100 the coroner thought at first it was one gaping one......so they penciled that out? I heard they may have penciled in her eyes because they were closed.....can someone explain the post mortem photo showing her neck?
sister says twice murdered or killed.......something about that bothers me.....
2248 commentators says friends and family were unanimous as where to look i.e. Jean....but in another interview with Quebec media sister Ann says she had never heard of Jean. Her brother is in Arizona. That leaves just Mom and Dad and of course friends......
G. Green and I. S. her friends both use the same word smitten
2558 check out photo of Paul Robert when young what do you think
rbbm. Wonder if Reet's hair actually was cut short ( hard to imagine that she would choose do do that, imo) or did it just appear that way? Could the killer be a female with a male accomplice? Speculation.
Man recalls finding body of Montreal woman near Manson killings
"Santochi couldn’t tell if the body was that of a man or a woman, but he says he could see the victim’s hair was cut short and the body was dressed in black."
Clothing shown @ 4:43 bloodied, large safety pin at pant button, hands bloodied but nails unbroken, imo, speculation.
Who Killed Jane Doe #59 : The Case of Reet Jurvetson - the fifth - VideoTarts
Man recalls finding body of Montreal woman near Manson killings
"Santochi couldn’t tell if the body was that of a man or a woman, but he says he could see the victim’s hair was cut short and the body was dressed in black."
Clothing shown @ 4:43 bloodied, large safety pin at pant button, hands bloodied but nails unbroken, imo, speculation.
Who Killed Jane Doe #59 : The Case of Reet Jurvetson - the fifth - VideoTarts
Yes the safety pin is strange for someone as like Reet. I hope we are not wrecking anything for the LAPD I mean identifying info they are holding back on purpose. So Santochi who finds her says she is dressed in black which she isn't. I did notice in the W5 that her hair looks VERY short almost cropped to the skull but it is not a clear image. Santochi had to mean very short - you wouldn't call the woman's hair in the LE mock up's hair short maybe medium length. He had never seen her before. Also he would have seen these police sketches and the mock-up yet he insists on black still, strange. In the LE sketches it looks cropped off not as short as the image . Was he walking down along the hill or along the highway?
One nightmare for LAPD with murders of women from that period that for probably every one they have to deal with Manson, Bundy, Alcala, Zodiac etc. The one person a few people thought could be Reet in the Alcala photo file is called Bikini Girl or Yellow Bikini Girl just google that adding the name Alcala. Her hair looks roughly cropped am I correct? I don't think it is Reet does anyone?
But certainly if someone took her clothes and cropped/kept her hair surely this is likely the classic fetish/souvenir serial killer type MO?
As for Dotr's idea of male and female accomplices and her earlier speculation about the relationship between the Jean's anything is possible. I think they think there is one murderer but any number of people of any gender could have been there.....same with the Jeans since we know nothing anything is possible.
Paul Robert is interesting I wish they had given him more time instead of showing repeated shots of the road and the canyon. He says Jean "was always taking off" that suggests he knew him for a while. Now as a waiter at Cafe Image he would have to stay put at least for his shifts so it is hard to know what Paul means. Getting up and leaving quickly say at a cafe or leaving Montreal then returning?
Alleykins
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Twiggy was really big in 1969 and she was known for her short hair. It could have totally been a fashion statement if Reet's hair was cut short. Just one possibility.
1. Yes it is possible she had her hair cut short. It is possible she bought those clothes. In the enactment of her getting on the bus to LA on W5 they chose a young woman with short hair who knows why.
2. Does anyone have a link to the coroner's report in the Marina Habe case. On blogs I have seen mention that there was a distinct lack of blood at that crime scene. Which is possibly true of Reet's case. There are definite blood smears on the road where he dragged her from the car. The clothes don't seem bloody enough. There is a bit more blood on the surviving artifact the bra that I thought but not much. Cutting the carotid artery plus that many stab wounds surely you completely bleed out?
3. See Dotr 192 why did Santochi think she was dressed in black? Why does he stick with that years later? She is dressed in blue jeans beige top brown belt jean jacket not sure of colour but not black I don't think.
4. I have a hard time believing nobody opened that case file in all those years given the proximity to the timelines of Manson, the Habe case, the case of the two scientologists, Alcala etc. They would have found the bra. If years ago I image they would realize the error and have it destroyed before the DNA era I mean. On the other hand they have 11,000 cold cases.
2. Does anyone have a link to the coroner's report in the Marina Habe case. On blogs I have seen mention that there was a distinct lack of blood at that crime scene. Which is possibly true of Reet's case. There are definite blood smears on the road where he dragged her from the car. The clothes don't seem bloody enough. There is a bit more blood on the surviving artifact the bra that I thought but not much. Cutting the carotid artery plus that many stab wounds surely you completely bleed out?
3. See Dotr 192 why did Santochi think she was dressed in black? Why does he stick with that years later? She is dressed in blue jeans beige top brown belt jean jacket not sure of colour but not black I don't think.
4. I have a hard time believing nobody opened that case file in all those years given the proximity to the timelines of Manson, the Habe case, the case of the two scientologists, Alcala etc. They would have found the bra. If years ago I image they would realize the error and have it destroyed before the DNA era I mean. On the other hand they have 11,000 cold cases.
Good coloured sketch of "Jean" (or Pierre see below) by the the Montreal artist who knew him
reet jurvetson jean - Google Search:
see important text from Coolopolis online mag about Montreal it seems the info that Jean was a medical student comes from Paul Robert the artist and therefore is very important. I had not gotten around to beginning checking the medical yearbooks Ontario and Quebec as the only source was Wiki Note that Robert remembers his name as PIERRE this is very important to keep in mind.....Reet's friends say she referred to him as Jean....all a little strange LA police are making a mistake not adding this Pierre reference as Robert may have a very good memory and possibly a good artistic memory.....
Of course Jean-Pierre is also a French given name
He may also have worked at Cafe Prag on Bishop Street
This sketch, obtained by Coolopolis, was drawn by Montreal artist Paul Robert and depicts Jean, the boyfriend of murder victim Reet Jurvetson.
Police investigators have been attempting to identify and locate Jean in order to question him about Jurvetson's death in 1969.
Jean was from Montreal and went stay in Los Angeles.
Reet Jurvetson left Montreal to work for a few months in Toronto in 1969 and then went to Los Angeles to meet up with Jean in 1969.
The two were reportedly staying at the home of another man named Jean.
Jurvetson was found dead, stabbed 150 times in the neck, on Mulholland Drive in Nov. 1969.
For 46 years Jurvetson's body remained unidentified, known only as Jane Doe 59.
Now that Reet Jurvetson has been confirmed as the victim, questions have arisen about Jean, the boyfriend she went to visit.
Jean was a francophone and was clean, well-spoken and was possibly a medical school student, according to Robert.
(Robert recalls Jean as being named Pierre, but Reet's friends recall Reet referring to him as Jean.)
Jean might also have worked at Cafe Prag on Bishop Street.
Robert met Jean at a hippie hangout called The Image on Park Ave., just south of Prince Arthur in 1968.
Robert has drawn this portrait based on his memory of meeting Jean 48 years ago.
Reet told her friends that Jean looked like Jim Morrison, singer of The Doors, but Robert feels that Jean's features were less-round and his nose more aquiline.
The sketch is based on a distant memory but Robert is confident that it bears a resemblance.
Anybody with information or possible tips about Jean's identity or whereabouts please contact megaforce@gmail.com
Pic I hadn't see of R.J. ‘My little sister was savagely killed’: Sister of woman found stabbed near Manson murder site hopes for justice
reet jurvetson jean - Google Search:
see important text from Coolopolis online mag about Montreal it seems the info that Jean was a medical student comes from Paul Robert the artist and therefore is very important. I had not gotten around to beginning checking the medical yearbooks Ontario and Quebec as the only source was Wiki Note that Robert remembers his name as PIERRE this is very important to keep in mind.....Reet's friends say she referred to him as Jean....all a little strange LA police are making a mistake not adding this Pierre reference as Robert may have a very good memory and possibly a good artistic memory.....
Of course Jean-Pierre is also a French given name
He may also have worked at Cafe Prag on Bishop Street
This sketch, obtained by Coolopolis, was drawn by Montreal artist Paul Robert and depicts Jean, the boyfriend of murder victim Reet Jurvetson.
Police investigators have been attempting to identify and locate Jean in order to question him about Jurvetson's death in 1969.
Jean was from Montreal and went stay in Los Angeles.
Reet Jurvetson left Montreal to work for a few months in Toronto in 1969 and then went to Los Angeles to meet up with Jean in 1969.
The two were reportedly staying at the home of another man named Jean.
Jurvetson was found dead, stabbed 150 times in the neck, on Mulholland Drive in Nov. 1969.
- See also: Coolopolis exclusive: Montreal woman identified as Jane Doe 59, possible Manson Gang victim
For 46 years Jurvetson's body remained unidentified, known only as Jane Doe 59.
Now that Reet Jurvetson has been confirmed as the victim, questions have arisen about Jean, the boyfriend she went to visit.
Jean was a francophone and was clean, well-spoken and was possibly a medical school student, according to Robert.
(Robert recalls Jean as being named Pierre, but Reet's friends recall Reet referring to him as Jean.)
Jean might also have worked at Cafe Prag on Bishop Street.
Robert met Jean at a hippie hangout called The Image on Park Ave., just south of Prince Arthur in 1968.
Reet told her friends that Jean looked like Jim Morrison, singer of The Doors, but Robert feels that Jean's features were less-round and his nose more aquiline.
The sketch is based on a distant memory but Robert is confident that it bears a resemblance.
Anybody with information or possible tips about Jean's identity or whereabouts please contact megaforce@gmail.com
Pic I hadn't see of R.J. ‘My little sister was savagely killed’: Sister of woman found stabbed near Manson murder site hopes for justice
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No sooner had I learned about Pierre and suggested Jean Pierre I found this article with an LAPD officer suggesting Jean Pierre as a possibility
Affaire Jurvetson: un témoin clé rencontré par La Presse | Gabrielle Duchaine et Vincent Larouche | Actualités
« Il était toujours propre. Il portait une belle veste en jeans et une chemise blanche avec ses longs cheveux qui lui tombaient sur les épaules. Il ressemblait vraiment à Jim Morrison », se souvient-il.
Pierre, ou Jean, quel que soit son nom, allait souvent au Café Image avec Mme Jurvetson, grande et belle, l'air un peu hautain, les yeux cachés par une longue frange et du maquillage très sombre. Elle se faisait appeler Rita.
Reet also went by Rita just as her brother Tonu went by Tony. Remembering the Beatles Lovely Rita 1967 it would be a good name...not that really needed to enhance herself.
Man it is so hard even to get the most basic details down LAPD should be able to translate the French press with software surely
The medical school really seems like a great clue... there are good yearbooks...it was a VERY prestigious job back then everyone would want their photo taken
Unless he was just talking big of course
This from Radio Canada...sounds like she lived with her aunt in Toronto, worked for Canada Post there went to LA from Toronto...something I have been trying to get straight...Une fois son diplôme d'études secondaires en poche, elle est déménagée à Toronto, où elle a travaillé pour Postes Canada et habité avec sa grand-mère avant de partir pour la Californie.
Affaire Jurvetson: un témoin clé rencontré par La Presse | Gabrielle Duchaine et Vincent Larouche | Actualités
« Il était toujours propre. Il portait une belle veste en jeans et une chemise blanche avec ses longs cheveux qui lui tombaient sur les épaules. Il ressemblait vraiment à Jim Morrison », se souvient-il.
Pierre, ou Jean, quel que soit son nom, allait souvent au Café Image avec Mme Jurvetson, grande et belle, l'air un peu hautain, les yeux cachés par une longue frange et du maquillage très sombre. Elle se faisait appeler Rita.
Reet also went by Rita just as her brother Tonu went by Tony. Remembering the Beatles Lovely Rita 1967 it would be a good name...not that really needed to enhance herself.
Man it is so hard even to get the most basic details down LAPD should be able to translate the French press with software surely
The medical school really seems like a great clue... there are good yearbooks...it was a VERY prestigious job back then everyone would want their photo taken
Unless he was just talking big of course
This from Radio Canada...sounds like she lived with her aunt in Toronto, worked for Canada Post there went to LA from Toronto...something I have been trying to get straight...Une fois son diplôme d'études secondaires en poche, elle est déménagée à Toronto, où elle a travaillé pour Postes Canada et habité avec sa grand-mère avant de partir pour la Californie.
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In a previous post you suggested that RJ was not dressed in her usual style of clothing, although it looked trendy to me for the time, it looked like an outfit she might have worn to ride on a motorcycle. ie the boots. imo. speculation.
Google Translate
"Pierre, or Jean, whatever his name, often went to Café Image with Mrs. Jurvetson, tall and beautiful, looking a little haughty, her eyes hidden by a long bangs and very dark makeup. She called herself Rita.
She was not afraid to send for the boys, even the most intimidating ones.
And at the Image, there were some. The smoky place was a rendezvous for members of the criminal biker group Satan's Choice, one of the first in Montreal. There were regular police raids.
Did Reet Jurvetson or his friend spawn with the bikers? Impossible to know, replies Paul Robert. "At the time, everything was going very fast. The world was at a turning point. We passed each other, but we did not know everything about each other. And we were young. We did not see everything. "
"Send for the boys" I guess this includes the bikers. I wonder what me means by that? To talk? to score some drugs?
Clothes..OK I mostly meant the sizing....but I am not really the best judge of style lol and to be honest I borrowed that observation from a female friend who is not on WS. I stole the sizing observation from her too! And the blood obversation. I am not great visually and rely on a friend or two.
And thanks "OFTEN went to Cafe Image with Jean" that is important.
I see no Jurvetsons in the 1968-1970 Montreal phone book but lots of people had unlisted numbers. There is a Jurwetson which is probably the same name really, an architect. Now all I have to do is go through the phone book looking for all the Jeans, Pierres and Jean-Pierres there are probably 500,000!
With no foundation would just wonder if Jean really was a medical school student then could he be securing drugs in any way if he had access to a hospital?
The four Quebec medical schools I believe were Laval, McGill, University of Montreal and Sherbrooke the last of these opened only in 1966 the others are old.
In Ontario ( I add these because a report or two has Jean in Toronto with Reet though this is probably false) U of Toronto, Kingston, Windsor, Hamilton, Ottawa.
But what medical student just takes off to LA? But maybe that apt. just rented by the week or month with no first and last and no lease I would like to know. Dotr is making me confront a R.J. who may have been slumming it a bit more than I had surmised. And with Jean maybe we really are looking for a ghost as the LA detective called him. He may:
1. be innocent not involved still worth finding
2 the perp but had no previous crimes just flipped out in rage
3. have already been a dangerous person maybe with previous crimes and therefore not necessarily likely to give his real bio or name.
But probably not too many people who went to Cafe Image got murdered. Maybe not even too many of the bikers if any at least back then.
It is interesting that Gilda Green Reet's friend just sees Jean 2 once (is this right?) once at Cafe Image Reet has gone missing. He may have gone there with the deliberate message - she's fine no need to make enquiries.
Somewhere online can't find it now I saw a small telephone message card or paper asking Reet to call collect or anyone who knows her to call home collect. Not sure where this was left maybe at the apt.? One key thing to know would be when Tony the brother sends someone to the address in LA are all three gone or is Jean still there? I would guess the former but don't know.
Clothes..OK I mostly meant the sizing....but I am not really the best judge of style lol and to be honest I borrowed that observation from a female friend who is not on WS. I stole the sizing observation from her too! And the blood obversation. I am not great visually and rely on a friend or two.
And thanks "OFTEN went to Cafe Image with Jean" that is important.
I see no Jurvetsons in the 1968-1970 Montreal phone book but lots of people had unlisted numbers. There is a Jurwetson which is probably the same name really, an architect. Now all I have to do is go through the phone book looking for all the Jeans, Pierres and Jean-Pierres there are probably 500,000!
With no foundation would just wonder if Jean really was a medical school student then could he be securing drugs in any way if he had access to a hospital?
The four Quebec medical schools I believe were Laval, McGill, University of Montreal and Sherbrooke the last of these opened only in 1966 the others are old.
In Ontario ( I add these because a report or two has Jean in Toronto with Reet though this is probably false) U of Toronto, Kingston, Windsor, Hamilton, Ottawa.
But what medical student just takes off to LA? But maybe that apt. just rented by the week or month with no first and last and no lease I would like to know. Dotr is making me confront a R.J. who may have been slumming it a bit more than I had surmised. And with Jean maybe we really are looking for a ghost as the LA detective called him. He may:
1. be innocent not involved still worth finding
2 the perp but had no previous crimes just flipped out in rage
3. have already been a dangerous person maybe with previous crimes and therefore not necessarily likely to give his real bio or name.
But probably not too many people who went to Cafe Image got murdered. Maybe not even too many of the bikers if any at least back then.
It is interesting that Gilda Green Reet's friend just sees Jean 2 once (is this right?) once at Cafe Image Reet has gone missing. He may have gone there with the deliberate message - she's fine no need to make enquiries.
Somewhere online can't find it now I saw a small telephone message card or paper asking Reet to call collect or anyone who knows her to call home collect. Not sure where this was left maybe at the apt.? One key thing to know would be when Tony the brother sends someone to the address in LA are all three gone or is Jean still there? I would guess the former but don't know.
I had totally missed this when I read it before. Trying to understand the following: on the family website about Reet there are three sketches LAPD made of Jane Doe 059. Her sister Ann says: "Through the years when she was known only as Jane Doe 059 or Sherry Doe, there arose widespread speculation about her demise. A forensic artist had made some composite drawings of Reet. Some people thought they recognized her. Unfortunately these drawing were clearly inaccurate and did not resemble her in the least as anyone can see. Hopefully now that police have more information about her time in Los Angeles and actual pictures of her there may be new avenues explored."
1. It just now occurs to me that Ann seems to be saying that some people thought they recognized her? Who? Friends, family members, strangers? This is important even incredible. She then says the drawings did not resemble her in the least. But she has just said some people thought they did. Of course she is entitled to her opinion. Anyone these are not composites nor are they photos of Reet at Cafe Image or in the back yard they were made from a corpse as I understand it. Wide latitude would be needed. She says LA police now know more about Reet's time in LA? Do they? That would be great. All that I thought they knew was the address which after all, I guess after the date of this memorial website page, came from Ann. To my knowledge LAPD know nothing else but let's hope they do. Ann has contradicted herself (OR) media made errors about whether she had ever heard of this Jean.
2. Ann says "we did not know how to find someone on the other side of the continent.......if she was still there......North America is a big place!....I eventually came to the conclusion that Reet had probably passed away." Surely you would start with LA. Morgue photos. She could have been run over, anything.
3. Niece's addendum: "The detective found nothing ended every conversation about Reet " I grew up in a family with lots of propoganda so something about that bothers me.
4. Why did Ann and maybe others balk so strongly about the sketches being Reet. Especially after the early 80's it should have occured to them that DNA might help answer the question of the identity of that Jane Doe some had thought they recognized as Reet. Because then they they would not have known that there should have been no DNA on file since it had been destroyed (of course in reality one piece of clothing survived and was misplaced luckily in the paper file.) Police like to close cases. They would happily have looked at this info.
5. If I am understanding they 1. did not report her missing 2. hired a detective who did not suggest they report her missing or if they did the family still did not act on it. 3. When people suggested Jane Doe 059 was Reet they did not contact LA and offer DNA to rule it out. 4. They seemed incurious about this Jean though W5 says once she was identified everyone was unanimous where to look. .
6. The notion that back then people only reported crimes to police and nobody in the community or the family realized they should report her missing makes no sense. At church, friends, community centre nobody suggested it. As I said in an earlier post I was alive then though 10 years younger than Reet's age but people would sure call around to hospitals, worry about accidents etc. I agree murder would not be the first thing to think about but they were already worried when she said she was going to hitchhike to California. Gilda Green says you can't do that and adds you need money.......but you need more money not less to take the bus. Also I thought Reet left from Toronto so did they talk long distance?
7. I do wonder if they did think maybe Reet was dead and maybe died at the hands of the Mansons since after all that is why Jane Doe 59 had the nickname Sherry as some claimed they had seen her at their ranch. This turned out to be someone really with the name Sherry. Now that I do understand a bit, if the family wanted to avoid the horrible degree of attention the case would garnered. They might think....well if that is Reet then she's dead instead of ruining our lives with her death being linked to of all people the Mansons it is best just to hope for the best and not allow this worst case scenario to go public.
1. It just now occurs to me that Ann seems to be saying that some people thought they recognized her? Who? Friends, family members, strangers? This is important even incredible. She then says the drawings did not resemble her in the least. But she has just said some people thought they did. Of course she is entitled to her opinion. Anyone these are not composites nor are they photos of Reet at Cafe Image or in the back yard they were made from a corpse as I understand it. Wide latitude would be needed. She says LA police now know more about Reet's time in LA? Do they? That would be great. All that I thought they knew was the address which after all, I guess after the date of this memorial website page, came from Ann. To my knowledge LAPD know nothing else but let's hope they do. Ann has contradicted herself (OR) media made errors about whether she had ever heard of this Jean.
2. Ann says "we did not know how to find someone on the other side of the continent.......if she was still there......North America is a big place!....I eventually came to the conclusion that Reet had probably passed away." Surely you would start with LA. Morgue photos. She could have been run over, anything.
3. Niece's addendum: "The detective found nothing ended every conversation about Reet " I grew up in a family with lots of propoganda so something about that bothers me.
4. Why did Ann and maybe others balk so strongly about the sketches being Reet. Especially after the early 80's it should have occured to them that DNA might help answer the question of the identity of that Jane Doe some had thought they recognized as Reet. Because then they they would not have known that there should have been no DNA on file since it had been destroyed (of course in reality one piece of clothing survived and was misplaced luckily in the paper file.) Police like to close cases. They would happily have looked at this info.
5. If I am understanding they 1. did not report her missing 2. hired a detective who did not suggest they report her missing or if they did the family still did not act on it. 3. When people suggested Jane Doe 059 was Reet they did not contact LA and offer DNA to rule it out. 4. They seemed incurious about this Jean though W5 says once she was identified everyone was unanimous where to look. .
6. The notion that back then people only reported crimes to police and nobody in the community or the family realized they should report her missing makes no sense. At church, friends, community centre nobody suggested it. As I said in an earlier post I was alive then though 10 years younger than Reet's age but people would sure call around to hospitals, worry about accidents etc. I agree murder would not be the first thing to think about but they were already worried when she said she was going to hitchhike to California. Gilda Green says you can't do that and adds you need money.......but you need more money not less to take the bus. Also I thought Reet left from Toronto so did they talk long distance?
7. I do wonder if they did think maybe Reet was dead and maybe died at the hands of the Mansons since after all that is why Jane Doe 59 had the nickname Sherry as some claimed they had seen her at their ranch. This turned out to be someone really with the name Sherry. Now that I do understand a bit, if the family wanted to avoid the horrible degree of attention the case would garnered. They might think....well if that is Reet then she's dead instead of ruining our lives with her death being linked to of all people the Mansons it is best just to hope for the best and not allow this worst case scenario to go public.
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She wrote she was going to the beach everyday. I would worry she had drowned. House fire, pedestrian accident, accident hiking, car accident, accidental fall and at least her friend G.G. would have worried about drugs if she claims she knew she was taking methadone. Accidents and homicides each account for about one third of deaths in people 15 to 25. Suicide is 10 per cent but I doubt I would have thought of that. Then disease but then for sure she would have called.
I hadn't read the comments below the W5 doc. MANY have suspicions like I have I hadn't realized that.
One thing I want to point out: Reet's brother died in Dec. 2014. In 2015 someone discovers the post mortem of Reet. W5 narrators says with the advent of the internet her friends began searching etc. But the internet was around well before 2015 more than 20 years and for the 10 years before 2015 it was rich with data. I think it is likely they had already found her. For some reason they needed to wait for the death of the brother before they were comfortable coming forward.
My first conspiracy theory on any aspect of this case is that Reet was redressed her clothes stolen and that someone with access to the records building had the bra placed there via a bribe or having genuine access. There are always cleaners etc. surely. This happened AFTER the brother had died.
Hypothesis of course I have no proof.
One thing I want to point out: Reet's brother died in Dec. 2014. In 2015 someone discovers the post mortem of Reet. W5 narrators says with the advent of the internet her friends began searching etc. But the internet was around well before 2015 more than 20 years and for the 10 years before 2015 it was rich with data. I think it is likely they had already found her. For some reason they needed to wait for the death of the brother before they were comfortable coming forward.
My first conspiracy theory on any aspect of this case is that Reet was redressed her clothes stolen and that someone with access to the records building had the bra placed there via a bribe or having genuine access. There are always cleaners etc. surely. This happened AFTER the brother had died.
Hypothesis of course I have no proof.