Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[MsBetsy]

It is a legal term but is not meant to be carried out in public, or even in the legal system, to an absurd degree, as if that were the case, we would never arrest and lock up anyone until they were found guilty by a court of law IMO. Moreover, in my view, sometimes guilty people walk free. That doesn't mean they are innocent of the crime by strict definition in our society - just that they were not found guilty in a court of law and need to be afforded what legal rights the rest of us have. We don't have to think of them as innocent. They can even confess to a crime after the fact, since we have double jeopardy laws. There is innocent and guilty in the legal sense, and innocent and guilty as words we use to describe whether someone did something or not. I am probably making a mess of the legal points, above, but hopefully I am making some rational point here.

I think it makes sense. In the court room it applies, but not the general public. No-one is reqired to assume he is innocent. Is this what the question was initially about? I think I missed something. Of course the jurors are given specific instructions. It is up to the prosecution to prove the charges are true, but until then he is presumed innocent. Right? Someone posted the general guidelines for the jury upthread, which are good to know. It helps us to understand how the trial is conducted, but we as the general population are not held to this. Imo

 

[Shekkiec]

Haaaa, agreed. It would completely defeat the purpose of WS if we couldn’t discuss a defendant’s guilt until he was actually convicted.

I think it’s great to discuss both opinions!

 

[Shekkiec]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

 

[Shekkiec]

@Shekkiec in principal, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty appears to be a myth. IMO

Agree

 

[CFlo]

I think it’s great to discuss both opinions!

Absolutely the point too, right? <modsnip - unnecessary comment about other posters>
Most DO NOT want to share both opinions/theories though (their words) as to the “both opinions”. Some state they are about evidence, but just kept pointing to a 3 year old bankruptcy filing (3 years IIRC) and FB videos of SW. yet we aren’t allowed to debunk their today’s world financials and work/businesses income.
If there were a jury foreperson wanting other jury members to SEE/HEAR something else that could very well be valid points that “the other side” doesn’t see.... isn’t that the whole point?
MOST have expressed here on WS they want a FAIR trial. Even as far as suggesting a “mock trial”, but some just won’t open up to educate those (me included) on “that other side”.
I too would love to hear their opinions (based on facts
as we all know to date). But without their insight, how can we see that side of they don’t provide? We can’t.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I think it makes sense. In the court room it applies, but not the general public. No-one is reqired to assume he is innocent. Is this what the question was initially about? I think I missed something. Of course the jurors are given specific instructions. It is up to the prosecution to prove the charges are true, but until then he is presumed innocent. Right? Someone posted the general guidelines for the jury upthread, which are good to know. It helps us to understand how the trial is conducted, but we as the general population are not held to this. Imo

Thank you, yes. And to the original post, no one IMO here who thinks CW is guilty is saying we ought to string him up at the town square without a fair trial. We don't want to do what he claims he did, which is be judge and jury outside the legal system (ironically). So the public generally believes in the legal system and respects legal rights afforded thereunder. We don't have to agree with a verdict, but we legally must respect it as it pertains to someone's legal rights. From the way the post was worded, I wonder if anyone here would like to take CW in until trial since he is totally innocent until the guilty verdict. I suspect not...Nor do I suspect anyone here would want to host OJ Simpson for the weekend despite having been found not guilty in a court of law. IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

There is no information that there are any issues with the autopsies. Oil complicates things, which is one possible reason (among numerous others) as to why they aren’t complete.

 

[dlharris2712]

I wonder if her family noticed his behavior the week he was in NC with them...or was he good enough at faking 'happy family man' that everything appeared fine to them. (just thoughts and of course aside from anything SW may have intimated to them as far of marital discourse/separation etc etc) IMO

I watched a video of him with SW, the kids and SW's Dad - they were at some sort of trampoline park. In the video SW is taking pictures, laughing, cheering and encouraging them. SW's Dad is taking pictures and encouraging them. Behind SW is CW looking at his phone. No engagement with the girls or SW. But checking his phone...now that was important to him. Not even trying to "fake" he was a "family man". He is a murderer...who didn't care less about his family - to the point he stuffed his daughters in oil tanks. JMO

 

[nwmouse]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

What makes you think that?

 

[MsBetsy]

Right....every other post....OBJECTION!!

Hearsay!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

What makes you think that?

How could we know that?

 

[MassGuy]

I watched a video of him with SW, the kids and SW's Dad - they were at some sort of trampoline park. In the video SW is taking pictures, laughing, cheering and encouraging them. SW's Dad is taking pictures and encouraging them. Behind SW is CW looking at his phone. No engagement with the girls or SW. But checking his phone...now that was important to him. Not even trying to "fake" he was a "family man". He is a murderer...who didn't care less about his family - to the point he stuffed his daughters in oil tanks. JMO

I don’t read much from the videos, even the ones that may paint CW in a bad light. It’s just too subjective, and lacks the necessary context.

The only videos that matter IMO, are his news interviews. The ones where he lies to us, again and again.

 

[Tigerlily75]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

Can I ask what makes you think that?

 

[jn0920]

I’m late to the game, so maybe this has been discussed, but I’m wondering if maybe CW used SW’s hands to leave DNA on the daughters. Perhaps it’s taking the ME longer to determine perimortem vs postmortem? I personally feel there’s something unexpected because the family has returned and results still have not been released.

 

[DexterMorgan]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

They probably want to clarify which bones were broken post mortem or something. Because he was probably dragging them up and down stairs and in and out of cars. Jmo.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Same here -- IMO the defense will have probably 15+ willing to get up there and say how he never missed Sunday School, was always helping the teacher, did good deeds everyday, was always a gentleman, opened the doors for his teachers, shared his lunch at school, blah de blah de blah. Further, I'm not sure how many the judge will permit -- we have 4 dead people here, and only one person in that courtroom has a motive...

always wondered if when people that are friends that testify, if they understand what they're doing actually, in other words...

do the individuals that are trying to support him and being a character witness understand their impact if they are being brought into the case in Chief, the meditation stage, or the sentencing phase?

I wonder how many people were wrong in their belief when they agreed to do it, and regretted the stage that they did it for the defense.

That always worries me did they don't realize the impact they have, versus what they intended.

 

[Gardenista]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

Same here and I hope what I'm thinking isn't the case because it would break my heart for those babies even more than it already is.

 

[esayer]

Which means Layla123 time! I look forward to her AB summaries every day.

Yes hers is the best, I do mine more to make fun of AB and her craziness lol.

 

[scdiv]

I really wonder what Chris' multiple unanswered texts to Shanann - the morning after he killed her - said. If they were just generic like "Hey, you up yet?" Or if they were fake sweet like "Morning beautiful, how are the girls?" Or if they tried to set any kind of stage that she may have walked out or referenced the "emotional conversation."

In watching the tv interviews of Chris' lies, it seemed like he couldn't commit to which approach/story/lie he wanted to take - if they had been "abducted" or if they had a "disagreement" and Shanann had left him. He just kept stammering on about how they "vanished." It was like in the interviews, you could just see him conflicted, trying to latch on to one story or the other, not knowing which one to pick. If he had planned on saying he thought she had left him, now that didn't work because he didn't have time to set the scene to get rid of purses, kid meds, wallet, ID, cell phone, etc. But once he found out about neighbor cameras, he also couldn't now claim she and the girls got picked up and left with anyone. So he just sounded like an idiot stammering about his house the ghost town with a half hearted plea that if someone had them to bring them back. I wonder what his original story was going to be, if LE didn't get involved so fast.

And I wonder what approach he took in his fake multiple text messages he said he sent to Shanann the next day, which would have been sent before he knew he was backed into a wall with his fake stories. Did he try to set a stage in the messages to her? Or if they were just total generic like, "Are you up?" And how his defense attorney will explain any sweet concerned messages to the woman who just you know, strangled his children.

 

[evrli]

LE def has a lot we don't know...i cud sway w/CW's confession...up until the disposal......