TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[DisturbedConcerned]

Thank you for offering your opinion. I needed that as many seem to think the cop was right and his conduct not the least bit appropriate. He failed to identify himself, approached in full rage mode with sideways gun drawn and left zero chance to compose himself and de-escalate the situation his wrong assessment created. I will be disappointed if the jury buys his outrageous crocodile tears and fails to convict him. Attempted murder would be a more appropriate charge and his defense attorney's closing arguments were SICKENING.

The jury is deliberating right now and his trial concluded today.

Wow, that was disturbing. My experience with teachers unions, is that if you seriously did something wrong, like hurting a child, they would not support you.

But if it was something, like, take 15 sick days a month, they would support you, because that is a contract issue.

Nurses have an amazing union, I have seen some outrageous things, and the nurses involved were still employed.

The police unions, are no doubt very strong. And no doubt, everyone pays their dues. It surprises me that they support behavior that is very inappropriate, like the video clip, or shooting someone while off duty.

 

[mickey2942]

Sometimes I think that the "Thin Blue Line", is the often the very infinitesimal differentiation between criminals and police officers.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

I had a friend here today that saw that video who found no problem with the officer's conduct. He's 10 years my senior and I actually thought he was kidding. He wasn't and rationalized several faux news preprogrammed reasons the victim was in the wrong and was at fault for being shot.

He was not swayed that the officer wrongly assessed the situation, the guy was sitting in his own car and obviously had no gun. The attempted anal cavity search by this large monster also did not offend him.

Sometimes I think that the "Thin Blue Line", is the often the very infinitesimal differentiation between criminals and police officers.

 

[Thora_Jay]

This case makes me sick to my stomach and I am full of disgust.

A human being relaxing in his own home late at night is murdered due to the fact that a member of an “Elite” Law Enforcement sworn to protect the public had not a clue as to where she resided.

She claims being tired, yet she wrote reports, legal documents prior to clocking out. Really? She was of sound mind to do that, yet right after clocking out she became senseless on her way home? She just happened to go to the door of the resident exactly one floor above her.

I am in no way shape or form believing the grasping at straws crap of being tired, getting lost and going the wrong apartment.

I can see that there will be more than one case dismissed on people that she accused in reports during her career because of her claim of being too tired from hours worked.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

Botham Jean's family to sue city of Dallas and Amber Guyger, attorney says | Dallas | Dallas News

Hurry up and bury them with RFA's, RFP's, interrogatories and depositions. Plus subpoena all the loose end details it appears Texas has overlooked or not bothered to consider.

 

[Rocco]

Botham Jean's family to sue city of Dallas and Amber Guyger, attorney says | Dallas | Dallas News

Hurry up and bury them with RFA's, RFP's, interrogatories and depositions. Plus subpoena all the loose end details it appears Texas has overlooked or not bothered to consider.

They might as well get out their check books and say "how much?" and then fill in the amount. There are no contributing factors by him that caused his death. None.

 

[Via Marple]

Is AG's police union insured for a big civil payout like this?

I don't know anything about unions in America. Just common sense that there must be some sort of insurance, they can't just save money in a bank account and hope for the best when it comes to future large expenses.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

Who cares? Bankrupt them if not. Would serve them right for not condemning and renoucing her conduct and even that of Officer Wiley whose trial concluded today. They backed Wiley to the hilt saying he was right and said it with a straight face.

At this point, it is most likely her union has paid for everything including her multiple big money attorneys and likely even moving/relocation costs.

Is AG's police union insured for a big civil payout like this?

 

[mickey2942]

When I was doing research previously on the "laws" regarding termination of civil employees, it seemed like there is a fairly low payout from the city, the Union won't pay, I am wondering about the company that owns the apartments, if the killer was a "courtesy officer" there.

Is a city liable for an officer's off duty actions? I would have said a resounding, "No" at the beginning of the month. But in this particular situation, the first problem was treating this like an officer involved shooting. That set the stage for the next events.

The Killer was not charged or arrested, until Sunday, no warrant, until after the press conference with Mr. Jean's family attorneys. That was the next mistake.

The final problem is that the Chief of police, Hall, was completely wishy washy about terminating the killer. It made her look weak, and uninformed about the law. Chief Hall appeared to support the Killer, actions speak louder than words.

Based on those events, I think that the city chose to not define the Killer as a "rogue cop", doing things off duty, that were against the policies. Sure, I guess they are still on the, "I have ADD" train...seriously?!

 

[rosesfromangels]

When I was doing research previously on the "laws" regarding termination of civil employees, it seemed like there is a fairly low payout from the city, the Union won't pay, I am wondering about the company that owns the apartments, if the killer was a "courtesy officer" there.

Is a city liable for an officer's off duty actions? I would have said a resounding, "No" at the beginning of the month. But in this particular situation, the first problem was treating this like an officer involved shooting. That set the stage for the next events.

The Killer was not charged or arrested, until Sunday, no warrant, until after the press conference with Mr. Jean's family attorneys. That was the next mistake.

The final problem is that the Chief of police, Hall, was completely wishy washy about terminating the killer. It made her look weak, and uninformed about the law. Chief Hall appeared to support the Killer, actions speak louder than words.

Based on those events, I think that the city chose to not define the Killer as a "rogue cop", doing things off duty, that were against the policies. Sure, I guess they are still on the, "I have ADD" train...seriously?!

The PD is culpable because they didn’t take her off the street, reassess, or retrain after the first shooting incident. Instead, they unleashed her to shoot again, this time with fatal results.

All amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[mickey2942]

https://www.virtra.com/blogs/lawsuits-involving-police-officers-can-cost-city-whopping-amount-money

Interesting, that this article addresses the issue of training for police officers. Or lack thereof.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

One of the common and key buzz phrases that seem to always accompany each and every officer's, or his department's statement justifying killing somebody is to assert they responded as they were TRAINED TO RESPOND and therefore could not be in the wrong.

I guess nobody every considers that police train police and they train themselves to kill, seemingly first before even reasonably assessing a situation, asking any questions or sometimes even identifying themselves as police with any valid reason to be engaging a person.

Countless examples are on youtube of senseless shootings and killings by police officers that would be war crimes if they actually declared war proper instead of feeding the people the non-stop bull that they are protecting and serving when these senseless homicides and shootings take place.

My question to that would be, first and foremost who are you protecting and serving?

https://www.virtra.com/blogs/lawsuits-involving-police-officers-can-cost-city-whopping-amount-money

Interesting, that this article addresses the issue of training for police officers. Or lack thereof.

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

Hung Jury in Mesquite Officer Shooting Trial

Texas juries seem pretty far right.

Wiley's attorney told NBC 5 the jury was deadlocked at 8-4, in favor of a Not Guilty verdict.

"It is disappointing that a Dallas County jury given the facts, given this video, it's clear that what was done against Mr. Jones was a violation of his civil rights, was a violation against the Constitution, was far beyond what a police officer should be doing," said attorney Lee Merritt. "We have a long way to go if a jury can't automatically come back with a guilty verdict for this officer. But we will continue to push until we get there."

 

[rosesfromangels]

My question to that would be, first and foremost who are you protecting and serving?

Respectfully snipped.
I am a vigorous supporter of The Blue.
There are over 18,000 Federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies around the United States, and it is estimated that there are approx. 800K sworn officers.
128 officers died in the US in 2017
Police officers shot and killed approx. 1000 in the USA in 2017. (Sources: googled)

While any death, officer or civilian is hugely tragic, these numbers tell us that the vast majority of Officers are well trained. AG does not apparently fall in to this well trained group. I'm isolating my analysis to her actions alone.

Amateur speculation and opinion only.

 

[ksprincess]

This case makes me sick to my stomach and I am full of disgust.

A human being relaxing in his own home late at night is murdered due to the fact that a member of an “Elite” Law Enforcement sworn to protect the public had not a clue as to where she resided.

She claims being tired, yet she wrote reports, legal documents prior to clocking out. Really? She was of sound mind to do that, yet right after clocking out she became senseless on her way home? She just happened to go to the door of the resident exactly one floor above her.

I am in no way shape or form believing the grasping at straws crap of being tired, getting lost and going the wrong apartment.

I can see that there will be more than one case dismissed on people that she accused in reports during her career because of her claim of being too tired from hours worked.

I could not agree more. As a nurse I used to work 12 hour very stressful night shifts, and then go home and would not always have daycare for my baby so I would stay up with him during the day, only sleeping during his nap and then go back and work nightshift again come home and do it all again. I would never want to do that to myself again because I was so so sleep deprived but I never would have been so tired that I didn't know where I lived what a ridiculous excuse!

 

[DisturbedConcerned]

What is your opinion of Derick Wiley's conduct?

The PR problems with the blue is their refusal to denounce or codemn ourageous officer conduct offering only rationalizing suppositions as if everyone not a cop is stupid as well as divorced from decency.

What do you think about these recent minor gems?

Washington police officer kicks teen at state fair

Respectfully snipped.
I am a vigorous supporter of The Blue.
There are over 18,000 Federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies around the United States, and it is estimated that there are approx. 800K sworn officers.
128 officers died in the US in 2017
Police officers shot and killed approx. 1000 in the USA in 2017. (Sources: googled)

While any death, officer or civilian is hugely tragic, these numbers tell us that the vast majority of Officers are well trained. AG does not apparently fall in to this well trained group. I'm isolating my analysis to her actions alone.

Amateur speculation and opinion only.

 

[itsreenw]

When I was doing research previously on the "laws" regarding termination of civil employees, it seemed like there is a fairly low payout from the city, the Union won't pay, I am wondering about the company that owns the apartments, if the killer was a "courtesy officer" there.

Is a city liable for an officer's off duty actions? I would have said a resounding, "No" at the beginning of the month. But in this particular situation, the first problem was treating this like an officer involved shooting. That set the stage for the next events.

The Killer was not charged or arrested, until Sunday, no warrant, until after the press conference with Mr. Jean's family attorneys. That was the next mistake.

The final problem is that the Chief of police, Hall, was completely wishy washy about terminating the killer. It made her look weak, and uninformed about the law. Chief Hall appeared to support the Killer, actions speak louder than words.

Based on those events, I think that the city chose to not define the Killer as a "rogue cop", doing things off duty, that were against the policies. Sure, I guess they are still on the, "I have ADD" train...seriously?!

 

[itsreenw]

The PD my husband works for had a program run by the local housing authority that provided officers free apartments in high crime apartment complexes. The police presence was supposed to deter crimes and enhance relations with the community.

If something occured at the apartments while the officers were home, they were expected to respond. So, they weren't really off duty. They just weren't in uniform or marked cars.

If she was receiving a rent subsidy in exchange for being an on site officer, I believe the PD and City would have some liability.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree, that the methods of training officers should be reviewed..I was absolutely sickened by the Rodney King incident, that was pure hatred and violence. The fact that police brutality has not changed in the last 25 years, since that incident is disturbing.

Why was Mr. Jean shot, when the officer could have easily called for backup? Of course, that requires that you believe every single step of the fairy tale that has been crafted. Which I do not believe.

 

[rosesfromangels]

What is your opinion of Derick Wiley's conduct?

The PR problems with the blue is their refusal to denounce or codemn ourageous officer conduct offering only rationalizing suppositions as if everyone not a cop is stupid as well as divorced from decency.

What do you think about these recent minor gems?

Washington police officer kicks teen at state fair

I think the larger concern of police training and accountability goes beyond the focus of this thread, and AG. I am going to narrow my focus to this incident, and how BSJ, an innocent citizen, was killed in his own home. AG’s conduct and decisions do not align with police protocol. I think we all want to hear the tox results, and wonder if that was why she was fired. Further, I want her tested for anabolic steroids, as mentioned upthread.

Amateur opinion and speculation only.